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The Album Advocate

post #1 of 49
11/3/10 at 4:43pm
Thread Starter 
I think we all have a few albums which kind of struck a chord with us, but never seemed to be liked by anyone else. Those albums which are either viewed as being downright awful, or a lesser work, or just part of a best forgotten era. This is the place to make your case for those albums and see if anyone agrees or see if anyone can destroy your ill founded love.

YES

I'm taking the 'I HAVE NO TASTE' thread to new and interesting places.

Anyways, to kick start things

David Bowie - 'Outside', 1995

Outside came at an interesting time for Bowie, his last solo album was the critically loathed 'Never Let Me Down'. Released in 1987 to little success, even Bowie seemed to view it as something of a misfire. A personification of his boredom with music. His work as part of Tin Machine would fire up some of the old creativity, but for all intents and purposes 'Never Let Me Down' seemed to be the end of Bowie as a creative force.

Outside, coming out eight years after Never Let Me Down, was essentially Bowie learning to love music again. However because it was so 'difficult' and formless it's often overlooked, with the follow up 'Earthling' being the key Bowie sound of the 90s. Certainly Earthling has the most apparent sound and style to it, but the forays into Industrial and Jungle music are really first heard in Outside. Outside experiments with those sounds, Earthling (for better of worst) honed them into something iconic.

What Outside does is provide a middle ground between Old and New Bowie and as such it's often a melting pot of ideas. Tracks like I'm Deranged (which is used to great effect in LOST HIGHWAY) really snarl with an energy which had been lost in the late 80s, but it's also not enveloped by the style like a lot of tracks in Earthling are. Similarly Hallo Spaceboy, despite feeling annoyingly autobiographical, feels like Bowie in his prime playing with a brand new tool kit. Earthling is probably a little more adventurous with the electronic/jungle/industrial inspirations but it's songs never feel as cohesive as Outside's best.
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post #2 of 49
11/3/10 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Outside came at an interesting time for Bowie, his last solo album was the critically loathed 'Never Let Me Down'.
Is this a semantic point, or aren't you forgetting some stuff?

"Outside" is a perfect representation late period Bowie: unengaging, a grandiose "theme" abandoned on the launch pad, ponderous, no hooks, completely disconnected, as if he forgot there was someone on the other end of the process listening; in that regard it's the musical version of Cronenberg's M Butterfly. "Earthling" was such a sweet relief from this "Art Murders" bullshit.

Interesting to hear a youngster's take on it, though, and to hear "Earthling" called "iconic" (THAT'S the album I would think falls into my own "love it when no one else does" category). No lie, I've read Bowie telling interviewers "this one kind of picks up where Scary Monsters left off" for like five albums.
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post #3 of 49
11/3/10 at 4:58pm
Funny...'Outside' and 'Earthling' are two of my absolute favorite Bowie albums. I'm still blown away by the musical leap between the two.
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post #4 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Is this a semantic point, or aren't you forgetting some stuff?
There's the Tin Machine stuff, but the only solo material released between Never Let Me Down and Outside are compilations. Unless I am missing something....oh.....god...I forgot BLACK TIE WHITE NOISE.

Man, I suck.

Quote:
Interesting to hear a youngster's take on it, though, and to hear "Earthling" called "iconic" (THAT'S the album I would think falls into my own "love it when no one else does" category). No lie, I've read Bowie telling interviewers "this one kind of picks up where Scary Monsters left off" for like five albums.
If you view Bowie as a selection of eras, then it's easy to see EARTHLING as a specific Bowie era. Hence why I view it as iconic. I'm not a massive fan of EARTHLING but I appreciate what it tries to do.
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post #5 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:08pm
Interesting. As a fan since, say, 1976 (I used to wear out my big brother's CHANGESONEBOWIE record), to me it's a wasteland between 1983 and "Earthlings", with only fits and starts since then (I like "Hours" a lot, but never fell in love with whole albums of Bowie's after that).
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post #6 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:08pm
I see 'Outside' as Bowie's effort to clear out some old ideas while embracing the new technology and production of the time. Free of those ideas/constraints, 'Earthling' feels like a complete reinvention.

I also credit Reeves Gebrels for providing some truly stellar guitar work on both albums.
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post #7 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:10pm
At the time I actually liked BLACK TIE WHITE NOISE, but mainly because I was an alto sax player in High School marching band and therefore felt obligated to like anything with horns in it and/or on the album artwork. I also had terrible/weird tastes.

I tried really hard to like TIN MACHINE. I had myself convinced that I did for weeks at a time!

I've given OUTSIDE many chances over the years, and it's as "meh" as "meh" can be, for me. I'm with Phil, EARTHLING is still pretty great.
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post #8 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Interesting. As a fan since, say, 1976 (I used to wear out my big brother's CHANGESONEBOWIE record), to me it's a wasteland between 1983 and "Earthlings", with only fits and starts since then (I like "Hours" a lot, but never fell in love with whole albums of Bowie's after that).
I love CHANGESONBOWIE, the Sax version of John, I'm Only Dancing is probably my favourite Bowie song and people always look at me funny when I say so.

Not a fan of pretty much anything post-Earthling. I know a lot of people went gaga over Heathen, but it felt really cold to me.

Then again, I'm an 'odd' Bowie Fan. I adore Hunky Dory and Diamond Dogs, but one of my favourite records by him is his album of covers Pin Ups and I really, really, really, like Lets Dance. Possibly more than I like Scary Monsters (Super Creeps).
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post #9 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
I really, really, really, like Lets Dance.
Nothing wrong with that at all. Sure, it's the album that made him popular and accessible to the masses, but it's also filled with some quality songs and some stellar musicianship. Also, SRV.
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post #10 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:22pm
Can anyone tell me why the version of "Cat People" on my "Let's Dance" cassette is the OTHER one, not the one that turned up in Inglourious Basterds.
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post #11 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Can anyone tell me why the version of "Cat People" on my "Let's Dance" cassette is the OTHER one, not the one that turned up in Inglourious Basterds.
Isn't the one from Inglourious Basterds a specific mix for the film, in the same way that the mix of Hold Tight is specific to Death Proof. Because until Inglourious Basterds all I'd heard was the original, slightly slower and much less bassy, Moroder version and a weird guitar/hammond organ led version of the song.
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post #12 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:30pm
Version I have.

Version that was in Basterds (and maybe Cat People).
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post #13 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike not knowing his shit
weird guitar/hammond organ led version
That's the version on the Cat People EP, however it's much quieter and slower on the original EP. I still think it's a specific edit of the song in Inglourious Basterds.
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post #14 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:46pm
There might in fact be a couple versions of the Basterds-sounding one. What I'm puzzled by is the Basterds-sounding one seems to be on CDs of "Let's Dance", though my old cassette has that overproduced, Stevie Ray VAUGHAN-having version.
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post #15 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:49pm
Vaughan. VAUGHAN. Not Vaughn.

And yeah, that version on 'Let's Dance' is completely misguided effort to funk up a dark and brooding song.
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post #16 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:51pm
I saw him live, give me a pass on this one, Uncle Judas.
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post #17 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:52pm
so did I. Great show, wasn't it?
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post #18 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
"Cat People (Putting Out Fire)" is a song by David Bowie, the title song of the 1982 film Cat People. It was written by Bowie with producer Giorgio Moroder. A re-recorded version of the song appears on the album Let's Dance. In 2009, the original version of the song was used for the soundtrack of the film Inglourious Basterds.
Does this help?
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post #19 of 49
11/3/10 at 5:58pm
Thank you
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post #20 of 49
11/3/10 at 6:01pm
Rancid - Life Won't Wait (1998.)

1994 was the year punk "broke." At least, that's what they say. Green Day and The Offspring followed insanely successful albums from that year (Dookie and Smash) with spikier efforts (Insomniac and Ixnay on the Hombre, respectively.) Both were met with less enthusiasm than their predecessors and pushed both bands into either their best album ever (the former) or the beginning of "the end" (the latter.)

Fellow Californians Rancid found themselves in a similar position. ... And Out Come The Wolves, an irrepressible 19 track adrenaline rush, gained similar praise thanks to its sing-along nature and superior musicianship; just try turning your nose up at Matt Freeman's bass solo on "Maxwell Murder", snobs. The rich blend of punk, reggae, dub, and hip-hop, amongst other elements, found on its '98 successor Life Won't Wait can't have appeased everyone yearning for ...And Out Come Yet More Wolves. I know for a fact, because I was that closed-minded upstart. I got the album hoping for more of the same and was immediately disappointed when it wasn't.

Give me a break, would ya? I was about 15.

Over time, though, I'd keep coming back to Life Won't Wait. On every occasion, I'd find myself skipping fewer and fewer tracks. Eventually, I'd hold the more eclectic likes of "Crane Fist" and "Lady Liberty" in much the same class as the more straightforward thrashing of "Bloodclot" and "Leicester Square."

Would I call it a classic album? Probably not. Even Rancid can't quite maintain that kind of momentum over 22 tracks and it isn't quite as cohesive as Wolves but its ambition can't be argued with and it doesn't sound a year old, never mind 12, thanks to excellent production from Tim Armstrong & Lars Frederiksen, and mixing by the late, great Jerry Finn.

Oh, and it's also one of the most beautifully designed albums you're ever likely to hold. Worth buying for the gorgeous riot-art sleeve booklet alone.

See ya in the pit!
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post #21 of 49
11/3/10 at 6:34pm
I like to pretend Ixnay on the Hombre is the last Offspring album, and that they ended on a high note. If I were to write a defense for anything in a thread like this, that would definitely be a contender. What should not be a contender is Life Won't Wait. That's just an all around great album, and I personally like it much more than And Out Come the Wolves. It needs no defense.
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post #22 of 49
11/3/10 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Bear View Post
1994 was the year punk "broke." At least, that's what they say.
It's true. It's just too bad it hasn't been fixed again.
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post #23 of 49
11/3/10 at 6:37pm
FURIOUS ANGELS by Rob Dougan is immensely listenable, and I like his Tom Waits style barely intelligible vocals. I picked up back in 2003 for THE MATRIX RELOADED, and while I have friends who laughed at me for listening to that album I think it's great!

It's one of like five CDs I've ever purchased
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post #24 of 49
11/3/10 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.S. Randlett View Post
I like to pretend Ixnay on the Hombre is the last Offspring album, and that they ended on a high note. If I were to write a defense for anything in a thread like this, that would definitely be a contender. What should not be a contender is Life Won't Wait. That's just an all around great album, and I personally like it much more than And Out Come the Wolves. It needs no defense.
I agree with you. It shouldn't be a contender. It's a vastly under-rated album that just keeps getting better. That's what I hoped my submission made the case for. However, it is still largely glossed over so, in that sense, it definitely fits the "overlooked" bill Spike outlined. It's ridiculously perceived as a "lesser work" just because it isn't wall-to-wall speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspberry Leper View Post
It's true. It's just too bad it hasn't been fixed again.
Ha!
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post #25 of 49
11/3/10 at 9:15pm
I think Outside is great as well. Forget the half-arsed bullshit concept, it's easily the most musically compelling record Bowie made after his 70's heyday, and for once it showed him taking cutting edge electronic influences and twisting them into something personal and ideosyncratic instead of just awkwardly following the latest trends like he did with Black Tie and Earthling.

That said, Earthling might actually be the strongest collections of songs in his late-period catalogue. But they probably would've been better without the D&B dressings - I mean, just how much more awesome is this version of Dead Man Walking?

I actually have a lot of time for 90's/00's Bowie. They tend to suffer from the desperate attempts at appearing cutting edge, but his actual songwriting was at a pretty strong level from Outside onwards. I have quite a soft spot for Hours as well. Makes me a bit sad that it's been seven years since his last record, and there's no sign of a new one.
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post #26 of 49
11/3/10 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Bear View Post
Over time, though, I'd keep coming back to Life Won't Wait. On every occasion, I'd find myself skipping fewer and fewer tracks. Eventually, I'd hold the more eclectic likes of "Crane Fist" and "Lady Liberty" in much the same class as the more straightforward thrashing of "Bloodclot" and "Leicester Square."

Would I call it a classic album? Probably not. Even Rancid can't quite maintain that kind of momentum over 22 tracks and it isn't quite as cohesive as Wolves but its ambition can't be argued with and it doesn't sound a year old, never mind 12, thanks to excellent production from Tim Armstrong & Lars Frederiksen, and mixing by the late, great Jerry Finn.
Amen. I love this album and actually prefer it to Wolves specifically because the tracks are more varied - if less "successful" overall. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the maybe-trying-too-hard-to-sound-badass self-titled follow-up. I love a lot of Dominoes, though.

Life Won't Wait came out around the same time as John Henry - the They Might Be Giants album that I try to defend from the purists who think they completely sucked once they hired an actual band. Another not complete success that makes up for it by throwing in some experimental stuff.

It's worth noting that both of these albums contain at least 20 tracks - so even if you discount the bad stuff, there's plenty to like.

As for Offspring, I find that I like most of their non-novelty songs, but it's so hard to take them seriously when they put out songs like Pretty Fly For a White Guy and Worst Hangover Ever. Smash and Ixnaye (and some Americana) still get played round these parts.
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post #27 of 49
11/3/10 at 11:26pm
Isn't Outisde the album Bowie made as the soundtrack for some video game?
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post #28 of 49
11/4/10 at 8:41am
Thanks, J D! Glad to have another defender of that album join the ranks. I do also love the fact that there's so much to the album itself, due to its sheer size. It's not the kind of punk album that feels like it's over almost immediately... which is always nice.

I've always been the same way about The Offspring, too. Non-novelty is the only way to go.

They Might Be Giants are a band I've always enjoyed, though I've never really gave them a proper "go." No albums owned or anything. Any particular starting point you'd recommend?
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post #29 of 49
11/4/10 at 10:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
Isn't Outisde the album Bowie made as the soundtrack for some video game?
No. The songs from Omikron were released on Hours in 1999.
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post #30 of 49
11/4/10 at 10:27am
I like that last Oingo Boingo album that everyone hates.
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post #31 of 49
11/4/10 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Bear View Post
Rancid - Life Won't Wait (1998.)
Guess I should try this one out again. It was a huge disappointment for me post-Wolves, which was one of my favourite albums ever.
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post #32 of 49
11/4/10 at 11:30am
OK, here's one:

Blue Oyster Cult's 'Cultasaurus Erectus' (1980)

There's really no denying that the band's first 3 albums contain their best overall material, and most of their albums in their later career flat out suck ('Club Ninja', I'm looking at you), but 'Cultasaurus Erectus' is that one WOW album of theirs that showed that the band still had it. Sure, the band was fully embracing the Sci Fi/Fantasy elements with this album, but so what...the songs were good, and the muscianship was first rate.

I can probably guarantee that you haven't heard a single song off of this album on the radio...MAYBE 'Black Blade', but that's it. Too bad, as there's a lot of gold on here. The follow up album, 'Fire of Unknown Origin', took the sound in a more commercial direction and produced a few legitimate hits ('Burnin' for You', 'Joan Crawford'), but it's not a patch on CE.

I listen to THIS album more than any other in their catalog.
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post #33 of 49
11/4/10 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
Guess I should try this one out again. It was a huge disappointment for me post-Wolves, which was one of my favourite albums ever.
Just one reason why it's definitely worth another go.
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post #34 of 49
11/4/10 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Bear View Post
They Might Be Giants are a band I've always enjoyed, though I've never really gave them a proper "go." No albums owned or anything. Any particular starting point you'd recommend?
That's a tricky one. The most recent grown-up album they did (they've done three kids' albums) was The Else, and it was a pretty good representation of them. A lot of people would tell you that if you don't like Flood, you won't like TMBG, but they sound a little different now that they use a band instead of a drum machine. It's tough to tell from the records how rollicking TMBG are live. The good news is that their fanbase is so nerdy that there are multiple fan-made videos of most of their songs on Youtube to choose from. Do a search for The Mesopotamians.
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post #35 of 49
11/4/10 at 1:29pm
Probably due to the ghost of The Clash heavily haunting Rancid's sound at the time and the ambitious length of the albums, there were some London Calling=... And Out Come the Wolves/Sandinista=Life Won't Wait analogies being made at the time.

The analogies aren't entirely valid for a number of reasons (first of all, the stylistic diversity on LWW probably makes it more akin than AOCTW to LC; plus, no albums quite manage what LC manages), but Life Won't Wait is miles better than Sandinista, IMO. Rancid's stretching sounds like fun, while the Clash's sounds like indulgence.

As for Bowie, all of the stuff after Tin Machine* sounds kind of the same to me. I've never bothered investigating all that much. Perhaps I should.

* For the record, loved the first album for many years, but now it sounds a little over-serious and bloated (although Gabrels and the Hunt brothers still sound fucking amazing). The second one was junk.
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post #36 of 49
11/4/10 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Bear View Post
Damn. That's actually a fun tune.

One Album I'll always stand up for...

Bad Religion - Recipe For Hate

Sandwiched in-between 2 of their more popular album (Generator and Stranger Than Fiction - released the 'year punk broke'), RFH was critically derided as possibly Bad Religion's weakest album, mostly due to the fact that it was their most experimental album since Into The Unknown. But listening to it now, divorced from what came before and after, it's a pretty rocking album featuring some of BR's most prescient lyrics (American Jesus) and just enough of their trademarked style. Any fan of theirs should take another listen, if only for Struck a Nerve and the closer, Skyscraper.
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post #37 of 49
11/4/10 at 1:51pm
Huge Bowie fan, and I can't say that I strongly dislike any of his output... but I generally avoid anything released after Scary Monsters and before Heathen.

Also, although my love for the album has waned a bit lately, I still really enjoy Tales From Topographic Oceans by Yes, which seems to be universally hated.
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post #38 of 49
11/4/10 at 1:56pm
If Recipe For Hate took human form I would make love to it. I don't even particularly care if the form it took was that of a dude.
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post #39 of 49
11/4/10 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy dunlop View Post
Also, although my love for the album has waned a bit lately, I still really enjoy Tales From Topographic Oceans by Yes, which seems to be universally hated.
That's pretty much the ONLY album of theirs that I can't stand (and yeah, I even like 'Drama'). It just sinks under its own weight.
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post #40 of 49
11/4/10 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
That's pretty much the ONLY album of theirs that I can't stand (and yeah, I even like 'Drama'). It just sinks under its own weight.
Interesting you bring up Drama, because thats another Yes album that belongs in this thread. Never got the hate (although I get that Yes fans are a little put off by the absence of Jon Anderson). But still, Machine Messiah is an awesome song.
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post #41 of 49
11/4/10 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy dunlop View Post
Interesting you bring up Drama, because thats another Yes album that belongs in this thread. Machine Messiah is an awesome song.
'Machine Messiah' and 'Tempus Fugit' are two of their best songs, PERIOD. I haven't seen Yes live in years, but I'm really tempted to see them in their current incarnation for the simple fact that they are playing both of these songs LIVE now.
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post #42 of 49
11/4/10 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
'Machine Messiah' and 'Tempus Fugit' are two of their best songs, PERIOD. I haven't seen Yes live in years, but I'm really tempted to see them in their current incarnation for the simple fact that they are playing both of these songs LIVE now.
I caught them in late '08 (sans Anderson) and Machine Messiah was definitely a highlight. Howe in particular seemed really excited to be playing stuff outside their normal catalog. There were even a couple tunes from Tormato thrown in for good measure.
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post #43 of 49
11/4/10 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Bear View Post
They Might Be Giants are a band I've always enjoyed, though I've never really gave them a proper "go." No albums owned or anything. Any particular starting point you'd recommend?
Flood's one of the best albums ever. Do Flood.
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post #44 of 49
11/4/10 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by J David Rhodes View Post
That's a tricky one.... Do a search for The Mesopotamians.
Thanks for the detailed response, man! I've always been a bit curious about them and got the sense you'd be the guy to ask. Cheers for proving that suspicion right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
Probably due to the ghost of The Clash heavily haunting Rancid's sound at the time and the ambitious length of the albums, there were some London Calling=... And Out Come the Wolves/Sandinista=Life Won't Wait analogies being made at the time.

The analogies aren't entirely valid for a number of reasons (first of all, the stylistic diversity on LWW probably makes it more akin than AOCTW to LC; plus, no albums quite manage what LC manages), but Life Won't Wait is miles better than Sandinista, IMO. Rancid's stretching sounds like fun, while the Clash's sounds like indulgence.
A music thread isn't a music thread, until this man arrives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
That's actually a fun tune.
It sure is! Also a ridiculously fun bass solo to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
Flood's one of the best albums ever. Do Flood.
Cheers for the tip, Patrick!

While we're still in the ska ballpark, anyone fancy recommending me a starting point for the Mighty Mighty Bosstones? Like T.M.B.G., I've heard a lot of singles - and liked 'em plenty - but never took the plunge on an album or anything (I've always had kind of a delicate relationship with ska.)
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post #45 of 49
11/4/10 at 4:06pm
I'll back up Patrick on 'Flood'. We used to beat the hell out of that album back in college.
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post #46 of 49
11/4/10 at 10:31pm
Flood is up right up there, but I like Lincoln a little better.
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post #47 of 49
11/5/10 at 11:02am
All recommendations and comments noted. Thank you, gentlemen!
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post #48 of 49
11/7/10 at 7:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy dunlop View Post
I caught them in late '08 (sans Anderson) and Machine Messiah was definitely a highlight. Howe in particular seemed really excited to be playing stuff outside their normal catalog. There were even a couple tunes from Tormato thrown in for good measure.
This discussion of Yes and the 'Drama' album caused me to revisit it after a long, long absence. It's much better than I remember it...indeed, I'd almost put it in their top 4 albums of all time. I really wish that they had kept this lineup around for at least one more album: this fresher, HEAVIER sound really suited the band nicely.

I'm gonna give 'Tales from Topographic Oceans' another go soon...probably after I listen to 'Machine Messiah' and 'Tempus Fugit' about 50 more times each...
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post #49 of 49
11/8/10 at 7:11am
Tales From Topographic Oceans actually has a good album inside it, it's just buried in filler and pointless repetition. Often sounds like a bunch of song fragments stitched together, but they were pretty close to their songwriting peak when they made it so those fragments are often very good.
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