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The 2012 Elections Thread - Page 26

post #1251 of 10455
1/6/12 at 10:36pm

I find this kind of behaviour utterly fascinating. Any person that just locks onto something so drastically, whether it be comics, films, politics or religion.

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post #1252 of 10455
1/6/12 at 11:47pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post

Parts of Boston are horrendously racist, so I'm sure parts of New Hampshire are worse. 

 

 

Really?? New Hampshire more racist than Boston???
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanCE View Post

God. You're system is so fucked up.



Hey! Only Americans can America bash! Everyone else must bow down! 

 

 

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post #1253 of 10455
1/7/12 at 12:02am
Quote:
Originally posted by SeanCE
 
I find this kind of behaviour utterly fascinating. Any person that just locks onto something so drastically, whether it be comics, films, politics or religion.

 

Reasons for my "behavior":

 

1. He's the only viable anti-war / pro-civil liberties candidate for President.

 

2. When I see his views misunderstood or misrepresented, I can't help but try to set the record straight. I know how it must look when I'm the only one defending him but I try to back up my arguments with evidence.


Edited by Barry Woodward - 1/7/12 at 2:30am
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post #1254 of 10455
1/7/12 at 12:08am

Or, failing that, by overwhelming denial of evidence.

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post #1255 of 10455
1/7/12 at 5:04am

Or not having a conversation about the morality of Paul's positions. Which is why he always fucking goes back to Paul being anti-war/pro-civil liberties and hardly ever engages in anything much beyond that. Because trying to explain how a decentralized Libertarian government DOESN'T cause certain minority groups distress, or would be disastrous for the economy is something he probably understands fuck-all about.

 

Unless you do understand these things Barry, in which case you need to lay it all out and have a goddamn conversation with us. Argue why YOU vote for Ron Paul, with YOUR words, and not a video clip or a goddamn link.

 

 

Otherwise the piehole should remain shut.

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post #1256 of 10455
1/7/12 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega View Post

Or not having a conversation about the morality of Paul's positions. Which is why he always fucking goes back to Paul being anti-war/pro-civil liberties and hardly ever engages in anything much beyond that. Because trying to explain how a decentralized Libertarian government DOESN'T cause certain minority groups distress, or would be disastrous for the economy is something he probably understands fuck-all about.

 

Unless you do understand these things Barry, in which case you need to lay it all out and have a goddamn conversation with us. Argue why YOU vote for Ron Paul, with YOUR words, and not a video clip or a goddamn link.

 

 

Otherwise the piehole should remain shut.


Seriously, how many times do we have to get Barry to face exactly this before we all give up in disgust at the dudes intellectual dishonesty - he's seriously taken up pages and pages of differing threads with this bullshit myopic idolatry.

 

Oh and Lauren - fantastic post.

 

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post #1257 of 10455
1/7/12 at 7:42am

Hey guys, let's just go to the Salma Hayek thread until Ron Paul's campaign collapses due to lack of support.

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post #1258 of 10455
1/7/12 at 7:59am
There's always time for boobies. However, some times this shit is just too entertaining to look away from.

Case in point: one of the superPACs in Gingrich's corner is set to release When Mitt Romney Came to Town, a thirty minute video about Romney's job killing tenure at Bain Capital.

The Daily Beast quotes the narrator in the video: “Wall Street’s corporate raiders made billions of dollars. Their greed was matched only by their willingness to do anything to make millions in profits … nothing spared. Nothing mattered but profits. This film is about one such raider and his firm.”

AmericaBlog's John Aravosis points out, "I just find it interesting that Gingrich, of all people (well, a Super PAC "associated" with Gingrich), is smearing Wall Street. That's about the best tribute to Occupy Wall Street you could make, that even Newt Gingrich is trying to climb on board the message machine. (emphasis mine) The video even includes the hecklers going after Romney for claiming corporations are people."
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post #1259 of 10455
1/7/12 at 9:21am

Glenn Greenwald posted a follow-up to his article criticizing progressives with one-dimensional views on Obama and Ron Paul. I put the first article in the Ron Paul thread but the issues he brings up aren't so much about Paul as they are about the election and American politics themselves:

 

Quote:
The one addition I would make to Robin’s summary of my position is that the problem isn’t merely that there is nobody else with a national platform besides Paul making these arguments on issues that are vital, not secondary. The problem is worse than that: it’s that the national standard-bearer of progressives, of Democrats — Barack Obama — is largely on the opposite side of these questions. More important, his actions are the antithesis of them. Given that the presidential campaign will dominate political discourse for the next year and shape how Americans understand politics generally, it’s impossible for these views to be aired by confining oneself to cheerleading for the Obama 2012 campaign because the President is an opponent of those views. Thus, the only way these views will get an airing is by finding some other tactic, some other means, for having them heard.

 

He links to a Rolling Stone piece, also worth reading in its entirety:

 

Quote:

The reason 2012 feels so empty now is that voters on both sides of the aisle are not just tired of this state of affairs, they are disgusted by it. They want a chance to choose their own leaders and they want full control over policy, not just a partial say. There are a few challenges to this state of affairs within the electoral process – as much as I disagree with Paul about many things, I do think his campaign is a real outlet for these complaints – but everyone knows that in the end, once the primaries are finished, we’re going to be left with one 1%-approved stooge taking on another.

 

And that's why I can't work up the "We gotta stop the evil Republicans!!!" rage for the umpteenth time.

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post #1260 of 10455
1/7/12 at 9:27am

Republicans are right, liberals ARE pussies.

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post #1261 of 10455
1/7/12 at 9:47am

Just got around to watching that Huntsman bullshit.  Fuck that.  Nobody goes after my boy Huntsman and gets away with it.

 

tumblr_lryct3zlrA1qaewwb

 

Seriously though, how despicable is this shit?  I'm not sure if it should bother me this much, but I'm seriously a little infuriated right now.

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post #1262 of 10455
1/7/12 at 9:52am
If Greenwald has any suggestions as to how we go about reforming the two party system that we're stuck with, he should say so. That's not what he's doing. Given the choice between a party with an imperialist foreign policy, but who can be nudged toward progress on domestic issues, and a party with an imperialist foreign policy who also wants to erase every civil rights, worker's rights, reproductive rights, and environmental protection victory that the people of this country have fought for over the last century, Greenwald is baiting an already miserable liberal public for fighting to save what we can. His fellow columnists at the same site have been calling him out for it, in what has to be a rare breach of workplace decorum.

Yes, we do still have to press Obama. Electing him isn't enough, we still need to make our voices heard, and will need to do so in 2016 as well. I'd love it if we had two parties palatable enough to make withholding support from Obama feasible, or at least morally acceptable. Voicing support for the guy who earned Stormfront's endorsement because his vision of a 21st Century Wild West would stop the crimes you don't like and enable crimes that you don't care about isn't a choice that I would make. I love my country at least that much.
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post #1263 of 10455
1/7/12 at 9:54am

It's funny how the GOP ads are not so different than the "Steve Holt is a Bastard" campaign ad from Arrested Development.   Especially that John Huntsman ad....

 

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post #1264 of 10455
1/7/12 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

If Greenwald has any suggestions as to how we go about reforming the two party system that we're stuck with, he should say so. That's not what he's doing. Given the choice between a party with an imperialist foreign policy, but who can be nudged toward progress on domestic issues, and a party with an imperialist foreign policy who also wants to erase every civil rights, worker's rights, reproductive rights, and environmental protection victory that the people of this country have fought for over the last century, Greenwald is baiting an already miserable liberal public for fighting to save what we can. His fellow columnists at the same site have been calling him out for it, in what has to be a rare breach of workplace decorum.

Yes, we do still have to press Obama. Electing him isn't enough, we still need to make our voices heard, and will need to do so in 2016 as well. I'd love it if we had two parties palatable enough to make withholding support from Obama feasible, or at least morally acceptable. Voicing support for the guy who earned Stormfront's endorsement because his vision of a 21st Century Wild West would stop the crimes you don't like and enable crimes that you don't care about isn't a choice that I would make. I love my country at least that much.


This so much.  I love Matt Taibbi but without lifting a finger to change or even address our system of elections his rant serves no real purpose but to further demoralize voters.  Even though the hedge fund billionaires donate to both parties, one is trying to put curbs on Wall St. while the other is trying to say this country somehow didn't deregulate Wall St. enough. 

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post #1265 of 10455
1/7/12 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post

It's funny how the GOP ads are not so different than the "Steve Holt is a Bastard" campaign ad from Arrested Development.   Especially that John Huntsman ad....

 


<applause>...is there anything that a little Arrested Development can't improve upon?

 

I keep wondering if we'll ever get a "I've made a huge mistake" post from Barry. 

(unless...there is always the possibility that RPaul supporters have been buying "Forget me Now's" in bulk)

 

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post #1266 of 10455
1/7/12 at 10:48am
Edward Mason's article about the way in which Romney has bought the support of Republicans around the country, and how the bribes have been laundered through his political action committee, might serve as a text on how American political corruption works for our fellow Chewers outside the US.
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post #1267 of 10455
1/7/12 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Woodward View Post

 

Reasons for my "behavior":

 

1. He's the only viable anti-war / pro-civil liberties candidate for President.

 

2. When I see his views misunderstood or misrepresented, I can't help but try to set the record straight. I know how it must look when I'm the only one defending him but I try to back up my arguments with evidence.


1. Obama promised to end the war in Iraq, and just did so. He's proposed massive spending cuts for the Military. He's set a departure date for the Afghan conflict.

 

2. Ron Paul is in favor of strong property rights and individual Civil Liberties. But as Lauren and others have pointed out, there are many cases where ethnic and religious minorities suffer at the hands of tyrannical majorities.

 

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post #1268 of 10455
1/7/12 at 4:58pm

Here's a Reuter's article on Romney's Bain experience in gutting a Midwest Steel Factory:

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/06/us-campaign-romney-bailout-idUSTRE8050LL20120106

 

I really look forward to the pro and con arguments about Bain and it's effects on the American economy.

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post #1269 of 10455
1/7/12 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Here's a Reuter's article on Romney's Bain experience in gutting a Midwest Steel Factory:

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/06/us-campaign-romney-bailout-idUSTRE8050LL20120106

 

I really look forward to the pro and con arguments about Bain and it's effects on the American economy.


heh heh....

 

Quote:

Debbie Wasserman Schultz: Romney’s A ‘Job Cremator’

 

“Mitt Romney, I think, is more of a job cremator than a job creator,” Schultz said. She added: “He was a corporate buyout specialist at Bain Capital. He dismantled companies. He cut jobs. He forced companies into bankruptcy and he outsourced jobs and sent jobs overseas. That’s not a record to write home about, that’s not a record to be proud of, and it’s something voters need to know.”

 

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post #1270 of 10455
1/7/12 at 5:55pm

Ricky boy is just hitting them outta the park these days....

 

 

Quote:

Rick Santorum focuses on gay marriage

 

He suggests to a New Hampshire audience that an imprisoned father is preferable to a same-sex parent.

 

Reporting from Manchester, N.H.—
For the second time in as many days, Rick Santorum waded into the issue of gay marriage, suggesting it was so important for children to have both a father and mother that an imprisoned father was preferable to a same-sex parent.

Citing the work of one anti-poverty expert, Santorum said, "He found that even fathers in jail who had abandoned their kids were still better than no father at all to have in their children's lives."

 

Allowing gays to marry and raise children, Santorum said, amounts to "robbing children of something they need, they deserve, they have a right to. You may rationalize that that isn't true, but in your own life and in your own heart, you know it's true."

 

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post #1271 of 10455
1/7/12 at 6:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

If Greenwald has any suggestions as to how we go about reforming the two party system that we're stuck with, he should say so.


But that's the harder question that can't even be asked if people are going to be brow-beaten into the mindset that we have to support the Democrat because he's Not A Republican. That issue should've been dealt with back in 2000. Instead, the lesson many wanted us to take away was "...if only that evil Ralph Nader hadn't spoiled everything". Yay, third party power.

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post #1272 of 10455
1/7/12 at 6:34pm

Ron Paul is mother-fucking KILLING IT at this debate. He may have some crazy ass beliefs, but he also seriously makes the rest of these shit bags look like the clowns they are. 

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post #1273 of 10455
1/7/12 at 6:42pm

Be interesting to see Ron Paul and Obama running against each other. It'll muddy the waters on the hard right, as they won't like how left Ron Paul is on certain subjects, but also won't be able to vote for the black guy.

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post #1274 of 10455
1/7/12 at 7:03pm

God these chicken hawk pussies are annoying. I love how they keep saying Obama is somehow a weak pussy with foreign policy when this is a guy who ordered Seals to violate Pakistan's sovereignty to put a bullet in Bin Laden skull.

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post #1275 of 10455
1/7/12 at 7:14pm
lol @ people complaining we didn't bomb Iran when two months ago they bitched about "opening a new front" in Libya.
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post #1276 of 10455
1/7/12 at 7:15pm
And yeah, not to go all Barry Woodward but Paul is pwning some n00bs tonight. Huntsman is a comparative rock star as well.
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post #1277 of 10455
1/7/12 at 7:21pm

Perry should have just walked off the stage and went home after that Iraq comment. Damn idiot.

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post #1278 of 10455
1/7/12 at 7:50pm

"What would you be doing tonight if you weren't debating tonight?"   Hardball final question from the liberal media.

 

Also, it's amazing Mitt Romney can speak alot but not say much.

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post #1279 of 10455
1/7/12 at 8:25pm

Also I think tonight's debate all but shows that the rest of the candidates not named Romney is either running for the VP spot or for 2016.   Romney hardly broke a sweat.   I'm looking forward to tomorrow morning's debate.   We should get some nice sleep deprived truthiness from it.

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post #1280 of 10455
1/7/12 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbrother View Post

God these chicken hawk pussies are annoying. I love how they keep saying Obama is somehow a weak pussy with foreign policy when this is a guy who ordered Seals to violate Pakistan's sovereignty to put a bullet in Bin Laden skull.

The President could eat cheerios out of Bin Laden's empty skull on television and they'd still say he was soft. They only have one play book, and it's a thin one.
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post #1281 of 10455
1/7/12 at 8:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post

Also I think tonight's debate all but shows that the rest of the candidates not named Romney is either running for the VP spot or for 2016. 



I was getting that impression as well. I kind of think Romney is basically going to tell them all to fuck off and pick his VP elsewhere. Why would he want any of these clowns?They've proven that they are too incompetent to compete in any way at all.

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post #1282 of 10455
1/7/12 at 9:15pm

I don't know why people were impressed with Romney tonight.   He basically filibustered and said pleasant plattitudes except for the part where he went after Huntsman.   And Mr. Huntsman, please stop speaking Chinese in front of Republicans.   It freaks them out.   They get weirded out enough when someone speaks English words that are more than 2 syllables.   Also, I forgot to mention how the GOP candidates, now that Bachman is gone, tried to out man each other on the "what would you rather be doing tonight" question.

 

Perry: "I'd go and shoot some guns!"

Santorum: "Grab a beer and watch the game!"

Newt: "Watch the game"

Romney: "Watch the game"

Paul: "Read up on economics" 

Hunt (for the win): "Call up my two sons who are serving in the Navy to remind myself how great this country is and how our military rocks."

 

Funniest exchange of the night belongs to Newt and Ron Paul.   According to Newt, being an Army brat equals serving in the armed forces.   And he used that exact term.   Army brat.

 

 

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post #1283 of 10455
1/7/12 at 9:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbrother View Post

Perry should have just walked off the stage and went home after that Iraq comment. Damn idiot.

 

On another forum I frequent, there are a bunch of pretty hard right leaning Texans who are(were?) Perry supporters.

 

I keep asking them why Perry was such a great Gov....seeing as he was being painted as the next "big thing" out of TX.

After the GOP debates started up, they have been almost completely mute regarding Perry....little to no verbal support whatsoever...not even any attempts at excuses for him.

 

I realize that every state has their share of ignorant voters (AK?!) but I keep thinking to myself: "how god damn gullible is the electorate in Texas...first Dubya, then Perry"?

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post #1284 of 10455
1/7/12 at 10:36pm
If my Governor responded to a drought by making a dog and pony show out of praying for rain, and then the state caught fire, I wouldn't lay claim to him either.
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post #1285 of 10455
1/7/12 at 10:40pm

Damn.  I stood up and cheered when Ron Paul all but called Gingrich a pussy.  One of the best moments in debate history.

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post #1286 of 10455
1/7/12 at 10:50pm
Have you ever read Al Franken's Rush Limbaugh Is A Big Fat Idiot? Franken writes, at one point, a short screenplay where Limbaugh, Gingrich, Pat Buchanan, and other Republican chickenhawks are drafted and assigned to the same PT boat. They're all complaining about their bad backs and anal lesions and whatever other cockamamie excuses they used to get out of Vietnam.

Romney spent the war in a mansion in France. I'm amazed nobody brought that up; do the fuckers not bother with opposition research? Has just lying every day spoiled them? You're on a stage, competing for the Presidency against a half a dozen assholes who all disintegrate on contact with the truth about their political careers. Dish some fucking dirt already.
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post #1287 of 10455
1/7/12 at 11:41pm

Yahoo's GOP Online Cyber Debate Spoof

 

"I USED TO TALK TO THE INTERNET ALL THE TIME."

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post #1288 of 10455
1/8/12 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post

And yeah, not to go all Barry Woodward but Paul is pwning some n00bs tonight. Huntsman is a comparative rock star as well.


I didn't watch this or any of the GOP debates but Paul was the best thing about the '08 presidential primary debates.  He may want to eliminate so many of the services that make this country great but he's not afraid to speak the truth when it comes the endless wars. 

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post #1289 of 10455
1/8/12 at 7:45am

Go fuck yourself Perry!

I know that isn't a intelligent response, but its how I feel.

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post #1290 of 10455
1/8/12 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post



I didn't watch this or any of the GOP debates but Paul was the best thing about the '08 presidential primary debates.  He may want to eliminate so many of the services that make this country great but he's not afraid to speak the truth when it comes the endless wars. 



You'll love this:

 

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post #1291 of 10455
1/8/12 at 8:53am

Looks like Huntsman is at 11% in the polls in NH behind Romney and Paul.   I doubt Huntsman will get the nomination but that's really the best case scenario right now,

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post #1292 of 10455
1/8/12 at 10:22am

I expect Huntsman will finish second or third. He plays well to NH and Paul is concerned about him more than Romney at this point. NH should be Paul's chance to break away, but I'm guessing Huntsman plays better to them than Paul does. I think it'll go Romney, Hunstman, Paul with Santorum and Gingrich picking up the scraps. Then on the South Carolina, after which Romney will probably (unfortunately) be the nominee. Depending on how they do down there, Santorum and Hunstman might kick around a little bit longer but the writing will be on the wall. Mitt's got the money, and as with everything else these days, that's all that matters.

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post #1293 of 10455
1/8/12 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post



You'll love this:

 


That was wonderful.  Fuck you, Newt.

 

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post #1294 of 10455
1/8/12 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post





You'll love this:

 

 

SMACKDOWN!!!!!  Bless Ron Paul for this.  And Newt's pathetic response by throwing his veteran dad in front of him as a human shield is vile.  Paul expresses perfectly what these wars are and how cowardly and sick chicken hawks like Newt Gingrich are.  Love it. 

 

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post #1295 of 10455
1/8/12 at 4:14pm

Ron Paul did a masterful job there but the funniest thing about it was Newt Gingrich equating his experience as an Army Brat  to actually serving when called.  

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post #1296 of 10455
1/8/12 at 5:38pm

Quick question for the "support Obama because he's the best we've got crowd" - what exactly would have to occur in the american political process for people holding this view to decide the system was broken and corrupt enough to call for it to be over-hauled completely?

 

What is YOUR personal line in the sand? Do you have one, or is a broken corrupted 'democracy' always worth defending and propping up regardless?

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post #1297 of 10455
1/8/12 at 6:42pm

If I could snap my fingers and change our system so that it works like it's supposed to, I would have done it years ago. There are so many problems, its hard to know where to begin. And although I support Obama somewhat reluctantly, I think there are legitimately good things about him (chief among them that he's an excellent politician, which is rare to find among so many spineless, witless democrats). There's also legitimately negative things about him too, but that's pretty much any president. I don't think of it as "well, he's better than anyone else," although that's true too at the moment. And it's not as if third party candidates have never ran, and it's not the case that an incumbent president hasn't been challenged. Obama may have faults, but he's no Lyndon Johnson. Like Johnson, he got handed a shit hand. Unlike Johnson, I feel like he's doing everything he can (with an incredibly shitty congress) to improve things, not escalate them.

 

I really don't get what you're going for here, and to tell the truth, your question sounds a little condescending. Yeah, there's a lot of shit I would change. At the same time, that's not the way it's supposed to work. It's not supposed to be all about me, but all of us, as a society. That's how democracy works. It just happens that it's led to an incredible amount of gridlock, but I honestly believe that kind of shit can only last so long.


At the same time, the system's not supposed to work like it has (or hasn't) been working. But it's also nothing new. We're a capitalist society and capitalism fuels the fire. It bugs me a little when people talk about government and industry in bed together as if this were a brand new concept. This shit has been happening since money first rolled off the presses. In many ways, we're better off than we've ever been because with the internet, all the bullshit is easier to detect. There are more opportunities to be informed than ever before, and that's with a corrupt industry-run national media. So, yes, I support change of our system. I believe in progressive change. But I'm not ready to rip up the constitution and call "do-over" just yet.

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post #1298 of 10455
1/8/12 at 6:50pm

Not trying to be condescending, am honestly fascinated as to what peoples limits would be before they start calling for widespread change. Obviously for some those limits have already been reached, manifesting itself in forms as diverse as Occupy to The Tea Party.

 

You touch on another point too that about capitalisms effect on democracy, they're actually not the best ideological bedfellows imo, and certainly not when capitalism is allowed to run rampant and essentially make democracy it's prison bitch as is the case today.

 

I think at the heart of it, I'm wondering how long it's going to be before the system itself, the nuts and bolts of what the supposed democratic political process in the united states has become, is completely called into question. To a degree it's happening, but there's a big difference between the 99% pointing it out and the 1% actually being compelled to do anything about it.

 

American democracy as it stands right now tho is broken and corrupt. So's my countries as well, being the loyal little lapdog that we are, following about 3-5 years behind your cultural wake.

 

So I'm not asking why you're not calling for the system to be completely over-hauled, I'm asking what would it take to make you call for that.

 

Matt Taibbi touches on it nicely at the beginning of his Rolling Stone piece...

 

 

 

Quote:
In the wake of the Tea Party, the Occupy movement, and a dozen or more episodes of real rebellion on the streets, in the legislatures of cities and towns, and in state and federal courthouses, this presidential race now feels like a banal bureaucratic sideshow to the real event – the real event being a looming confrontation between huge masses of disaffected citizens on both sides of the aisle, and a corrupt and increasingly ideologically bankrupt political establishment, represented in large part by the two parties dominating this race.

 

 

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post #1299 of 10455
1/8/12 at 7:20pm

Holy shit Rain Dog, I'm not sure if you could be more insufferable if you tried.  Perhaps consider changing your name to " The Condescending Know-it-all Perpetual Doomsayer Dog".

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post #1300 of 10455
1/8/12 at 7:26pm

Cool, thanks for sharing.

 

I don't get the condescending call at all - how exactly am I being condescending? Does it just get up your noses that someone who's not a fellow yank has the temerity to question these things at all? I seriously don't understand as condescending is the last thing I'm trying to be.

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