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The 2012 Elections Thread - Page 32

post #1551 of 10454

Jeb Bush ftw?

post #1552 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook View Post

My hope is that the Republican party will implode after whichever candidate it fields fails to beat Obama and realize that a return to sanity--as best exemplified by its last, sane candidate, Dwight D. Eisenhower, will actually yield more votes.  But who knows.  Every time the Republican party loses, for some inexplicable reason, it believes it needs to be more conservative, not less.

 

 

 

I think Marco Rubio is the most likely VP candidate.  He's a nutcase.  A true, crazy Cuban republican.  The kind of crazy Cuban who thinks that once the Castro regime falls, he and his family will return to Havana to open the house they locked when they left with Michael and Fredo to the States and resume their lives of opulence under Batista's regime.


Thing is, if Romney loses it will justify the Wingnuts who will say "See? We nominate a moderate who'll say anything to get a vote, and we lost. Santorum in 2016 baby!"

 

RE; Marco Rubio: didn't he piss off Cuban Americans when it came out that his parents left Cuba long before Castro came to power, but made it seem as if they were on the run from Castro himself? I remember reading something about that...

 

post #1553 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post

Jeb Bush ftw?



Oh you know Ole Jen must be just LOVING this.

 

How many times can this patrician family of nefarious skull and boners keep riding into save the RNC's day exactly??

 

Screen-shot-2010-06-23-at-9.47.10-AM1.png

post #1554 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post

Jeb Bush ftw?

 

 I have no doubt that there will be those in the GOP that will push for Jeb in a big way.

But... even if Jeb is "the smart one" and is a more middle of the road GOP candidate, the Bush name is still synonymous with "fuck up".

The Bush name may be too toxic to ever garner any sort of legitimacy ever again

 

Then again, how good is the American electorate's memory?
 

 

post #1555 of 10454

Romney is the only guy I know who can flip flop in the same breath.   And I paraphrase....

 

"I do not discriminate based on sexual orientation but I am opposed to same sex marriage."

 

In Huntsman news, it seems Colbert's fake run for the president might have had a hand in his quitting....

 

 

 

Quote:

WASHINGTON -- As Jon Huntsman and his family last weekend discussed the future of his campaign, one surprising topic kept coming up, according to a top Republican source. "They were worried that he would be compared to Stephen Colbert," said this high-ranking source, who declined to be quoted by name because of his friendship with the family and the former candidate. "They were risking being a laughingstock and wanted to preserve some dignity at the end."

Colbert is attempting to run in South Carolina as a write-in candidate, but cannot get official votes: he's not on the ballot and there is no space for write-ins. But he has run even with Huntsman in some polling and it was that comparison that the family wanted to avoid, according to the GOP source.

"That's stupid," said Huntsman spokesman Tim Miller, denying the Republican insider's account. "There were a lot of reasons he (Huntsman) made this decision. Beating Obama was at the top. Stephen Colbert was not on the list."

Insiders in the Romney and Huntsman campaigns describe a drama-less process by which the latter bowed out in favor of the former.

The former Utah governor, who finished an undramatic third in New Hampshire -- where he'd practically lived for a year -- talked things over with advisors and family starting Friday and going through the weekend. According to Miller, they decided that there was no path to victory and that Huntsman was just siphoning votes from Romney, and the final decision was made Sunday.

As the news leaked Sunday night, Miller said Huntsman called Romney. They spoke for a few minutes about the state of the race and how Huntsman could help.

On Monday, after bowing out and endorsing Romney, Huntsman agreed to do an "autodial" phone ad for Mitt, to targeted South Carolina voters.

Romney aides denied that they had sought the Huntsman moves, and said that they were surprised to get the first ground-laying call Sunday from Huntsman aide Jon Weaver.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/16/jon-huntsman-south-carolina-stephen-colbert_n_1209306.html

post #1556 of 10454
I'm not sure I can be bothered to watch this damn thing, not with WWE having recently introduced the Funkasaurus, but it will be liveblogged here.

Update: One of the Huffington livebloggers has a "Sixty Seconds on google" test to determine how easy it is to debunk the GOP candidate's lies.

The first one to fail the test: Mitt Romney, whose claim that "we have a president in office for three years, and he doesn't even have a jobs plan yet!" was debunked in 13 seconds.
Edited by Reasor - 1/16/12 at 6:23pm
post #1557 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post

 

 I have no doubt that there will be those in the GOP that will push for Jeb in a big way.

But... even if Jeb is "the smart one" and is a more middle of the road GOP candidate, the Bush name is still synonymous with "fuck up".

The Bush name may be too toxic to ever garner any sort of legitimacy ever again

 

Then again, how good is the American electorate's memory?
 

 


Are you serious? After this clusterfuck of sideshow clowns have crashed and burned?

 

The memory of a Bush in the White House will seem like a golden age to the republican base.

 

post #1558 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post


Are you serious? After this clusterfuck of sideshow clowns have crashed and burned?

 

The memory of a Bush in the White House will seem like a golden age to the republican base.

 

 

LOL

oh shit- does this mean, in the coming decades, Dubya is going to be looked upon as a latter-day Reagan?

 

Where are the Vogons when you really need them?

 

post #1559 of 10454

This debate has all sorts of dog whistles going on.   Biggest pop of the night was Newt defending calling Obama a "Food Stamp President".   Also Ron Paul is getting almost no attention.

post #1560 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post

Biggest pop of the night was Newt defending calling Obama a "Food Stamp President".   



God damn does that look great to the rest of the world.

 

Wow. Just wow.

post #1561 of 10454

Sweet jesus. I'm partially afraid this crowd is going to re-attack Fort Sumter.

 

Paul is crashing.  

post #1562 of 10454

Ron Paul getting heckled was amazing.   And of course Mitt Romney is pandering like crazy.

post #1563 of 10454
Mike Signorile tweeted: "SC crowds boos Ron Paul for promoting due process and the Constitution." For those not tuning in, Paul lamented the possible loss of actionable intelligence when we killed Bin Laden, instead of bringing him in. In hindsight, I'm surprised that I've yet to see conspiracies online about us actually having the bastard in a cage somewhere.
post #1564 of 10454

Rick Perry just used Daniel Pearl for a cheap pop.   This debate is so amaze-balls.

post #1565 of 10454

Romney just got booed for defending Americans being detained indefinitely.

post #1566 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

Mike Signorile tweeted: "SC crowds boos Ron Paul for promoting due process and the Constitution." 


Honestly, what exactly do these people believe in at this point? They're like chimps flinging shit at their own reflection.

post #1567 of 10454

And Santorum supports due process.   Like a broken clock I guess.   And Paul sounds like a guy trying to get through to a drug addict.

post #1568 of 10454

This panel is making Santorum sound like a moderate!

post #1569 of 10454

That exchange between Newt Gingrich and Romney about Super PACs is surreal.   So. Much. Bullshit.

 

And Romney just said he wants no limits on campaign financing and called McCain/Feingold a travesty.

post #1570 of 10454

I loved how crazy uncle Paul suggested a ZERO % tax rate!

post #1571 of 10454

Steve Colbert does it again.   I won't spoil how brilliant this ad is.   You just have to watch it....

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/16/stephen-colbert-herman-cain_n_1209574.html

post #1572 of 10454


Oh that's right.  I forgot the GOP decided to have yet another debate ... on MLK Day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

 

RE; Marco Rubio: didn't he piss off Cuban Americans when it came out that his parents left Cuba long before Castro came to power, but made it seem as if they were on the run from Castro himself? I remember reading something about that...

 


Yes, he's on tape lying about it.  His attempt to fix the lie was more lying.  It didn't get a lot of media attention but hopefully the Cuban crowd that supposedly favors him took note. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post

 

How many times can this patrician family of nefarious skull and boners keep riding into save the RNC's day exactly??

 

Screen-shot-2010-06-23-at-9.47.10-AM1.png



Can't be unseen.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post

Steve Colbert does it again.   I won't spoil how brilliant this ad is.   You just have to watch it....

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/16/stephen-colbert-herman-cain_n_1209574.html


Colbert is one of the best people alive.

 

post #1573 of 10454

I would love if on election night, Herman Cain gets on the scoreboard because of this ad.   Even 4% would be awesome.   Stephen Colbert is doing some true yeoman's work here with his fake campaign.   And for those who missed the debate tonight, Romney said exactly what Colbert did during his interview on This Week in regards to relations to their Super PACs.   We've truly gone through the looking glass here.   And to reiterate for those who missed it.   Romney came out loud and clear in support of unlimited campaign donations to political candidates.   And then the  crowd went wild at the idea of being disenfranchised even more so.  

 

Also, Newt said that Janitors, because of Unions, are vastly overpaid and can replace one Janitor with 30 (black) kids for the same price.   What's the median income for a Janitor in NYC?   A cool $24,000 a year.     That breaks down to about $800 per year for some poor kid doing the same job.  

post #1574 of 10454
What appears to be a finalized compilation of the fact-checking on tonight's South Carolina debate can be found here.
post #1575 of 10454

I just want to let people know, even though I live in the Pittsburgh area, I NEVER voted for Santorum!

post #1576 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post

I would love if on election night, Herman Cain gets on the scoreboard because of this ad.   Even 4% would be awesome.   Stephen Colbert is doing some true yeoman's work here with his fake campaign.   And for those who missed the debate tonight, Romney said exactly what Colbert did during his interview on This Week in regards to relations to their Super PACs.   We've truly gone through the looking glass here.   And to reiterate for those who missed it.   Romney came out loud and clear in support of unlimited campaign donations to political candidates.   And then the  crowd went wild at the idea of being disenfranchised even more so.  

 

Also, Newt said that Janitors, because of Unions, are vastly overpaid and can replace one Janitor with 30 (black) kids for the same price.   What's the median income for a Janitor in NYC?   A cool $24,000 a year.     That breaks down to about $800 per year for some poor kid doing the same job.  


pretty sure newts talkin bout this.

Quote:

Twenty public-school janitors rake in more than $140,000 a year -- far more than the teachers whose classrooms get tidied up, records show.

As The Post reported yesterday, suspected crooked custodian Trifon Radef counts himself among the rich elite, making more than $170,000 a year. Radef is under investigation for allegedly using city workers to renovate nine of the 10 properties he owns in Queens, officials say.

But Radef wasn't even the highest-earning "custodial engineer."

That honor went to Queens janitor Kevin Fitzgerald, who pulled in a whopping $181,643 at PS 229 in Woodside -- thanks to the supplementary work he performed at two other Queens schools, records show.



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/janitors_clean_up_zEecMaKxzR8m202QAPiVZP#ixzz1jhOOzcSQ

 

 

post #1577 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post


Oh that's right.  I forgot the GOP decided to have yet another debate ... on MLK Day.

 

 



Democrats had more debates in 2008 then the GOP has in the 2012 election cycle.  Besides, after Romney wins South Carolina there pretty much won't be a need for another debate. Winning the first three primaries is unheard of and historic... Newt even said if he didn't win he'd have to reconsider his campaign. Especially since Romney has a double digit lead in Florida polling.

 

post #1578 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post




pretty sure newts talkin bout this.

 

 



 

Wait it's 20 then? Out of how many? Newt makes it sound like that's common or even a typical salary. And one of the guys there is working at MULTIPLE schools?!?!

post #1579 of 10454
"It was a moment that will likely be dissected, debated and discussed for some time: a black journalist being booed by an overwhelmingly white audience in a deep South state on Martin Luther King Day, as a white candidate for president talked about the work ethic in low-income, majority black neighborhoods. It's hard to imagine a more charged few minutes in public life in recent memory."

-- Huffington Post reporter Jon Ward, on the "Janitor exchange" between Gingrich and debate moderator Juan Williams.

"Beating up on Williams as well as poor kids like Ty’Sheoma Bethea, Gingrich had his best debate night yet. It’s not likely to be enough to beat Romney, but it should help him fend off Santorum, despite the (contested) endorsement of right-wing evangelicals this weekend. Once again, South Carolina proves to be the corridor of shame in the GOP presidential primary, featuring some of the ugliest racial politics seen anywhere. Strom Thurmond is gone but not forgotten."

-- Salon.com editor Joan Walsh, covering the same incident.

"If Romney’s performance was uneven, then Gingrich owned the room. He returned to the debate form we saw in November and December; he seemed to know how to push the audience’s buttons and gave the primary voters what they wanted. Perry was much more engaged than usual, but his declaration that Turkey is ruled “by what many would perceive to be Islamic terrorists” once again displayed lack of knowledge when it comes to foreign affairs. (For the record: Turkey isn’t run by Islamic terrorists.) Santorum also started off strong, knocking Romney off balance on voting rights for felons. But he later disappeared for large chunks of the debate."

-- MSNBC's coverage of the debate in general, by Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Brooke Brower.
Edited by Reasor - 1/17/12 at 8:30am
post #1580 of 10454

I seriously think that you guys should just let the South secede. Then Mexico can invade and occupy it.

post #1581 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

"It was a moment that will likely be dissected, debated and discussed for some time: a black journalist being booed by an overwhelmingly white audience in a deep South state on Martin Luther King Day, as a white candidate for president talked about the work ethic in low-income, majority black neighborhoods. It's hard to imagine a more charged few minutes in public life in recent memory."
-- Huffington Post reporter Jon Ward, on the "Janitor exchange" between Gingrich and debate moderator Juan Williams.


That was a pretty ugly moment in the debate.   I thought for sure Juan Williams was going to be called "uppity" or told to "know your place".   And Newt Gingrich basically calling Janitors a privileged class was too funny.    In the examples Snaike provided, one is doing work at multiple schools and another owns property and supposedly collects rent from said property.   Janitors make shit pay for the most part.

 

Newt might say he's not a racist but he was sending out all the right signals including calling Barack Obama the Food Stamp President.   That might help him in SC but it would doom him in the General election.   As for Romney, I have yet to see him answer a question directly.   Unless he's really brought to bear in the primary season, he'll be chewed up by Obama in the General.

 

post #1582 of 10454

Who looked most Presidential?

 

I thought Newt looked like a Garbage Pail kid.

post #1583 of 10454

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post

I seriously think that you guys should just let the South secede. Then Mexico can invade and occupy it.


Andrew, there are days I feel like the entirety of our federal government is there just to make sure The South doesn't strip the rights of EVERYONE.

post #1584 of 10454
I don't think anybody was seriously considering a Perry run for the Presidency until he threatened to secede from the Union, to the delight of a Texas audience.

And this is why I can't be President; in a prime time televised address to the nation, I would have called his bluff and invited him to explain to his constituents what renouncing your citizenship does to your Social Security payments.
post #1585 of 10454

 

Quote:

seriously think that you guys should just let the South secede. Then Mexico can invade and occupy it.

 

 

Believe me, we're working on that.

post #1586 of 10454

Lauren for president of the new Texican democracy! Lesbian gangster TV shows for all! Arnold Rothstein to be name Veep!

post #1587 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post

Steve Colbert does it again.   I won't spoil how brilliant this ad is.   You just have to watch it....

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/16/stephen-colbert-herman-cain_n_1209574.html



Dear God, I forgot about the extreme close-up slo-mo smile. I just about died.

post #1588 of 10454
The Bachmann campaign, still blaming entrenched Republican misogyny for her last place finish in Iowa, still want an apology from Santorum's campaign for an email that went out claiming that children's lives would be harmed if the nation elected a female President.

Romney spent the hours leading up to yesterday's debate making appearances with Kris Kobach, author of Arizona's and Alabama's immigration laws and associate of SPLC-identified hate group the Federation for American Immigration Reform. This is a particularly good article, with links to the SPLC's case against FAIR as well as some of Romney's past history with immigration.

Professional hater Pete LaBarbera and several of his peers are holding a press conference in front of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Montgomery, Alabama headquarters at noon today to protest the SPLC's identification of all these groups devoted to stopping the expansion of civil rights as "hate groups."

ETA: holy crap, the SPLC's press release response is already up.
Edited by Reasor - 1/17/12 at 9:13am
post #1589 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post

I seriously think that you guys should just let the South secede. Then Mexico can invade and occupy it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega View Post
Believe me, we're working on that.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post

Lauren for president of the new Texican democracy! Lesbian gangster TV shows for all! Arnold Rothstein to be name Veep!


I will join the invasion like a modern day San Patricio battalion! 

 

post #1590 of 10454

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post


Democrats had more debates in 2008 then the GOP has in the 2012 election cycle.  Besides, after Romney wins South Carolina there pretty much won't be a need for another debate. Winning the first three primaries is unheard of and historic... Newt even said if he didn't win he'd have to reconsider his campaign. Especially since Romney has a double digit lead in Florida polling.

 



Really?  It doesn't feel like the Dems had this many debates.  Who knows. 

 

Meanwhile, Snaieke, I find it so odd that Romney's your candidate.  Why?  What is it about him that makes him your guy? 

post #1591 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post

Also, Newt said that Janitors, because of Unions, are vastly overpaid and can replace one Janitor with 30 (black) kids for the same price.   What's the median income for a Janitor in NYC?   A cool $24,000 a year.     That breaks down to about $800 per year for some poor kid doing the same job.  


I can't help but think that these GOP nominees still haven't grasped the idea that everything they say in public is probably being recorded and will be fact checked to nth degree....and yet they still continue to repeat the same lies and hyperbole that has shown to be either, at the very least, an extreme exaggeration or at the worst, a blatant lie.

 

Speaking of exaggeration, that janitor story that ran in that "Weekly World News" of newspapers, the NY Post is the perfect example of Murdoch-ian misrepresentation.

 

 

from a Politfact look at Newty's initial comment...

(of note- while I don't always agree with poiltifact's "ratings", their research on this seems good)

 

Quote:

 

But what about the people Gingrich called "janitors"? This is where he runs into trouble.

 

The NBC piece referred to a "first-year custodial engineer." That’s a much more senior position, requiring specific skills and experience. Here’s how the official exam describes "what the job involves" at "assignment level 1," the lower of two levels:

 

"Under general supervision (custodial engineers) supervise and are responsible for the physical operation, maintenance, repair, custodial upkeep and care of a public school building and its immediate grounds; supervise, plan and are responsible for the work of the custodial and maintenance staff; heat building by means of low pressure boilers; maintain HVAC equipment; make minor repairs to steam plant, heating equipment, electrical equipment, plumbing, structure, glazing and furniture; supervise cleaning of the building and grounds; maintain the building and grounds in a safe, secure and sanitary condition; conduct inspections of building to determine needed repairs; consult with and advise officials on problems of operation, maintenance and repairs; set up custodial work schedules to ensure maximum efficiency and minimum interference with classroom activities; requisition and account for custodial and maintenance materials, tools and supplies; maintain records and prepare required reports of plant operations; within assigned budget, hire appropriate personnel and train or arrange for their training, prepare payrolls and personnel forms, pay wages and provide Worker’s Compensation Insurance for hired personnel; are responsible for interior maintenance painting of school building; perform related work."

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/dec/12/newt-gingrich/newt-ginrgich-says-new-york-city-starting-janitor-/

 

and...it's been quite a few years since I was in NY, but I seem to remember that if you wanted to live a simple but comfortable life in NY, earning a $100K a year would be barely enough to allow that.

 

 

post #1592 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post

 

Meanwhile, Snaieke, I find it so odd that Romney's your candidate.  Why?  What is it about him that makes him your guy? 


If I was forced to guess, I'd go with "snowball's chance in hell of beating the democrat".

 

post #1593 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

"If Romney’s performance was uneven, then Gingrich owned the room. He returned to the debate form we saw in November and December; he seemed to know how to push the audience’s buttons and gave the primary voters what they wanted. Perry was much more engaged than usual, but his declaration that Turkey is ruled “by what many would perceive to be Islamic terrorists” once again displayed lack of knowledge when it comes to foreign affairs. (For the record: Turkey isn’t run by Islamic terrorists.) Santorum also started off strong, knocking Romney off balance on voting rights for felons. But he later disappeared for large chunks of the debate."
-- MSNBC's coverage of the debate in general, by Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Brooke Brower.


Sigh.  Just... sigh.

post #1594 of 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post


I can't help but think that these GOP nominees still haven't grasped the idea that everything they say in public is probably being recorded and will be fact checked to nth degree....and yet they still continue to repeat the same lies and hyperbole that has shown to be either, at the very least, an extreme exaggeration or at the worst, a blatant lie.

 

 



Have you tried to have a political conversation with a contemporary GOP supporter?

 

Facts matter not.

post #1595 of 10454

Also the "Liberal Media" doesn't call the GOP out on their lies.   So there's that.

post #1596 of 10454

Man, fuck the GOP.

 

http://electionlawblog.org/?p=28047

 

 

Quote:

Juan Williams: Are you suggesting on this Martin Luther King Jr. Day that the federal government has no business scrutinizing the voting laws of states where minorities were once denied the right to vote?”

 

Governor Perry responded: “I’m saying that the state of Texas is under assault by the federal government.  I’m saying also that South Carolina is at war with this federal government and with this administration. When you look at what this Justice Department has done, not only have they taken them to task on voter i.d.,…”

 

post #1597 of 10454

Oh my!  Evidently Andrew Sullivan wrote an Obama cover story For Newsweek that has triggered a massive code red meltdown on the right, including a raging tweet from Sarah Palin (!).  I'm about to read it...

How Obama's Long Game Will Outsmart His Critics"

 

The title on the cover is "Why Are Obama's Critics So Dumb?"   

post #1598 of 10454

yt, it's a great article, and Sullivan's been doing fantastic responses in his blog to critics of the piece.

 

He's also called Fox a bunch of retarded pantywaists for criticizing his article without asking him to go on the news net and defend. Though supposedly Fox is now considering having him on.

post #1599 of 10454

Michael, I'm almost done with it.  I'm obviously to the left of Sullivan, but since he clearly delineates between his opinions and the facts, I can't be more impressed.  LOVES! 

post #1600 of 10454

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post

Michael, I'm almost done with it.  I'm obviously to the left of Sullivan, but since he clearly delineates between his opinions and the facts, I can't be more impressed.  LOVES! 


What's really frustrating is that articles like these (and the one Taibbi did a couple of years ago) won't make a dent on the people who need to read it the most. Sullivan arrays an impressive set of factual and objective arguments here, relying on rhetoric and less rational supports only infrequently. 

 

I'd love to send the article to my tea party relatives, but even if they bother to read it, it won't matter. They don't want to be bothered with the facts. They just want the liberal brown person gone.

 

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