The 2012 Elections Thread - Page 35

I adore how Paul brings every question back to his one answer.

"Repealing Roe vs. Wade is easy, all we have to do is get Congress to vote abandon their jurisdiction! Easy-peasy!"

Newt Gingrich just called the Most Dangerous President of All Time.   Did he sleep through the Aughts?

Honestly at this point I don't get how there aren't more violent anarchist groups springing up across the US.

 

Spoiled entitled little western kids today are just too lazy or distracted I guess.

Great question! Where are all those Militias that sprung up during the Clinton Administrations? My opinion:

 

1) The real crazies are getting satisfaction from the GOP nominees and are confident that they'll win in November. When Obama wins it will be interesting to see how they react.

 

AND/OR

 

2) Even the crazies don't think Obama is a Muslim/Communist/Martian. I recall in the 2008 campaign a local leader of the Ku Klux Fucking Klan said he thought it was maybe time to have a Black President! Evolution can occur in strange ways....

I was thinking more in the face of rampant corruption, blatant lies and politicians that are essentially openly bribed and bought by narrow interests that are not shared by the wider populace that is supposedly meant to represent the people.

 

Less crazy git-r-done libertarians in the woods, more like the intellectual bombing anarchists of Europe during the industrial revolution.

 

The aggressive stupids will cheer for the stupid aggression that passes for political discourse in your country of course - where are the intellectuals who have had enough?

 

Where are the people who want to take the Occupy logic that next step?

 

I'm not saying I want this to happen by the way, just that I'm kinda stunned it hasn't yet. Modern America really is a long long way from radicalization really aren't they - even when disaster stares them in the face. Mass media and prescription drugs seem to have done their job nicely. 

 

Please Note: This is not meant to be in any way condescending or critical of average americans, it is an observation that I'd love to see spawn discourse rather than hyper-sensitive butthurt.

 

I'm just sayin...

 

If you follow the corners of the Net where these protests are organized, the leaders always put out the word to be on the lookout for guys in masks and police or paramilitary boots. The Civil Rights movements in America have had to deal before with things like COINTELPRO, which was an FBI project to provoke violent acts that could be blamed on legitimate protestors. The intellectual anarchist types have seen that nonviolence works. Gandhi was right. Doctor King was right. That's what Occupy is all about.


Here's Romney, tonight, in a painful attempt to squirm out of answering about his tax returns.



Short verson: There's dirt there, Obama will eat me alive when it comes to light, and I'm putting it off as long as I possibly can.

Time to bomb Australia.

Re; That video, Romney had a really bad debate night. Those tax reports sound explosive ...

I thought Romney did well overall but yes, the Tax returns seem to be a time bomb about to go off. I've already seen a report about lots of Offshore accounts to dodge taxes....and he really sputtered in answering the question.

 

(I think all reporters and candidates debating Romney need to start asking him "will do do X LIKE YOUR FATHER DID????")

 

And Santorum's answer "Whelp, I'va got alla ma taxes on my PC at home, I'll have to get 'em to ya when I'm back" what a homepsun blowjob.

You know who else is a self made man with rich parents,  Romney? Adrian Veidt. And we all know how that went.

I think the KKK leader only said that because he was hoping that having a black president would drive more people over to his fucked up ideology.

 

 

 

Because it ain't that doomy and gloomy, really and honestly.

 

And believe me with my family background, I'd probably be aware of when the tides really turned.

 

MAN ON A LEDGE: Starring THE RAIN DOG

Thing is, in the modern american 24 hour news election cycle, if there is seriously incendiary, run-ending stuff in there, how exactly does Romney and his staff continue on with their campaign without knowing its going to come to a crashing halt when this inevitably gets out?

 

Why do you keep going when you're sitting on something that will inevitably end it all?

Romney's tax return situation will be interesting.....I think that he'll only release last years tax return, which I can imagine someone has been busy "massaging" to make his finances appear to be more "middle class".

I would like to get a peek at his finances from 5-10 years ago.

Amazingly, Romney proved Gingrich right with that exchange over his taxes. Newt's whole point was that if this is going to hurt Romney as a candidate, voters deserve to know about it now. Romney essentially conceded the point.

Never in my life did I think I'd see the day that I didn't want Newt to shut the fuck up, but he's been a godsend for Democrats this year.

I just started watching a rerun of the debate. I can't take Gingrich seriously at all, blowing his top at John King over asking him about his wife. All this hot air coming from the guy that crucified a sitting president over petty issues, invading his privacy and holding it up for all to see? Yeah. Go fuck yourself.

thanks to The Daily Show

 

 

That's the sort of intellectual anger I'm talking about.

 

Not suggesting Parker would, we've had that discussion, but I don't really get how more young people aren't becoming seriously radicalised in the face of all this. 

 

Where the hells the 21st century equivalent of the Symbionese Liberation Army or Baader Meinhof?

 

Are western youth  just a bunch of spoiled soft pussies these days or what?

 

 

You can be the first, Rain Dog! RISE UP!

Too weary, too cynical and too non-violent I'm afraid.

 

 

Honestly tho, the times seem to be ripe for something like that making a big return. Maybe it's happening in different ways now - like with Anonymous for example - and I'm simply too old to see where the new direction is coming from.

 

 

Rise up over Newt Gingrich making an ass out of himself? Because there's no need to. The whole thing is a joke, that was my point. He's a transparent asshole. Just because some yokels cheer for him at a CNN debate doesn't mean anything. You gotta back off the ledge a little bit, my friend. It's going to be okay. Stop trying to incite all of us to violence over here. It's going past the hyperbolic and getting downright creepy.

 

Also, it's a little unfair to call OWS protesters pussies from the comfort of your couch.

Not what I was saying at all and again I'm not trying to incite anyone to anything. I guess, yet again I'm ruminating out loud on peoples limits.

 

It just seems to me people used to take up arms over a lot less back in the day and the world environment is ripe for that to make a repeat.

 

I don't want violence in the streets of America any more than I want violence in the streets here - but I find it fascinating to see peoples points of no return.

 

I also get outrageously frustrated when obvious corrupt lying bullshit is fed to the people - and whats worse they eat it up. As someone whose entire world view pivots around the idea that I will never be anyones fool (ever),  I guess it enrages me on a personal level.

 

...and when I get enraged my emotions can sometimes get the better of me. I apologize for coming off as creepy.

 

I am in no way calling occupiers pussies tho - not in the fucking slightest. Dear god they're the first to be asking the right questions on that scale in a long time. 

I just get so confused with you because you're like "where are all the people rising up?" and then you mention Occupy Wall Street and you demand to know what their next step is while also frequently wondering why their "anarchist groups rising in America" and bitching about "spoiled Western kids." Many OWS protesters were Western young adults, so that doesn't seem to add up either. And calling Americans out for being complacent while simultaneously acknowledging a major protest that happened for a majority of the past year seems downright loopy.  Add all these together and the subtext is "good start, but not enough. Get violent already." I know that's not your intention, but it's kinda how it's coming off.

My point is, the OWS movement was huge, but it's a little early to be demanding they take it to the next step. The only way rapid change can come quickly is through violence, but thankfully we're not there yet. Things just aren't that bad. Just because Newt Gingrich is a pig doesn't mean there should be rioting in the streets. Patience, faith and a little hope are our friends.

People aren't going off into the streets and blowing buildings up because quite frankly as bad as the wars in the middle east are, and how shit our economy is doing, we're not in the same place as we happened to be during the 60's and 70's. Women's rights, the end of segregation, a vast cultural gulf from one generation to the next, a Cold War going on between two superpowers that sucked in the entire world, a rise in anti-imperialist groups rising up against colonial rule all over the world, a costly quagmire of a war in Vietnam, the restoration of the Shah to Iran, and I'm sure thousands of other issues that I won't mention out of brevity are the things that went down at this time in history, and practically all at once.

 

That's in addition to the fact that radical left wing groups in America tended to be made up of little more than a bunch of kids with too much machismo and a willingness to be led around by barely coherent lunatics like Donald DeFreeze, while European groups tended to be split between either various nationalist organizations and militant revolutionaries who sprang up as a direct result of their parents Fascist past.*

 

 

And right now we have tensions, we have bad wars, and social issues regarding everything from race to sex right now. But it's not the same, not by a long shot.

 

 

 

 

*Seriously one does not have to look far to see serious parental issues at the heart of most European Left-Wing terrorists. Which kind of makes them actually look like a bunch of pussies with serious problems regarding misplaced rage.

I can only speak for myself, but I've been putting off burning this down mostly because I've been so exhausted from whackin' to Rain Dog's OWS fanfic.  You gotta pm him for the really juicy stuff, but I'm getting slippery just thinking about what dudes in the Guy Fawkes masks do to Todd Palin in ch. 3 of "The Revolution Comes...Hard".

Some media outlets are saying that Newt won the debate within the first five minutes by "nuking" the marriage questions.  I'm sure he wanted them to be asked for that very reason, though.

I don't think this is true. The Folks in Cairo staged mass protests, and did suffer at the hands of the police and military, but they drove Mubarak out of power with no big Terrorist acts, no mass violence of their own (we'll see what happens going forward).

OWS has changed the debate in the US. When GOP candidates decry Fat Cat Bankers, you know there's been a sea change. And as regards sudden change, we might see all those crazy ass Tea Partiers get swept out of office in November.

 

As for the "Intellectual Anarchists" that Rain Dog is longing for, I'd submit that Al Queda cornered that market. Many if not most of their members were well educated (in many cases Western educated) professionals who felt a deep, visceral disgust with Western values, and took direct action to restore what they saw as the old, preferred way of life (Islamic La La Land). Those folks aren't too popular these days.

 

Actually I'd say Ron Paul won the debate several times over. It helped that he has a loud cheering section.

 

As for Newt, that interview on Nightline is going to kill him I think.

 

Then let me clarify my statement by saying that I don't think rapid change can come in the United States except through violence. And even then, frankly, I think it's unlikely. Equating Egypt with the US is just a non-starter. Apples and Oranges.

 

 

All true. I know how strident and militant I can sound some times, but honestly all I was looking for were the exact kind of responses yourself, Lauren and Cylon have just given. Again, I'm not looking for violent revolution, I'm wondering why it hasn't happened yet and what would inspire it. What is different in the world now that doesn't encourage that like it did in our parents day? You guys have brought up some pretty great points in answer to that that I maybe hadn't completely considered in my rush to impotent philosophical rage. Cheers.

They left out the best part of his quote.  "I can do better."

I think if one of this shower somehow lied their way into the White House in November you'd see a little more blood on the streets, RD.

Submitted without comment.

Just to clarify here: can everyone reassure a scared, cowardly foreigner like myself that none of these sphincter-puckering fuckwits have a chance in Hell come November? Because after waking up on November 3rd 2004 to Bush's grinning turtle-face I'm genuinely worried.

Is losing a debate in SC such a terribly bad thing for the more modorate (in relative terms) candidate like Romney? I mean isn't SC the state which still flies the confederate flag, where the more hardliner candidate would most likely win but come across to the sane parts of the US as just horrible?  

Romney's the only one that has a real chance, I'm afraid.  Unless Jeb Bush somehow crashes the party (though I think we'll be seeing him and/or Christie in 2016).

But how much of a chance does Romney have? It bewilders and frightens me that someone like him could even be in the game of running for the most powerful position in the Western world.

I remember it well: "Gore can't lose, hon" I told my then missus "the economy's doing well, and Jr comes across as a grade A moron"

 

I think Romney can take Obama. Remember 48% voted for a ticket that was one heartattack away from President Palin. A 2.5% swing in such economic hard times isn't hard too imagine.

 

Edited by Love Machine - 1/20/12 at 7:43am

I want to agree with Andrew, but even in my own family, the "Anyone But Obama" hate/masked racism runs srtong. I do think Obama will win....but I don't think it's a sure/landslide thing.

 

If Newt somehow gets the nomination, I do think the game is over, though. No fucking way someone as vitriolic and checkered as Newt beats Obama. No way.

It's unrealistic to think that the GOP will never hold the White House again. I really don't think it's going to be this year, but it will happen eventually. Perhaps the party will mature and become more reasonable (if they lose they might find themselves with more of a reason to, especially if they lose a lot in the Senate..not sure about the house). But if the idea of a Republican in the White House gives you hives and you plan on living more than a few more years, brace yourself. It will happen again.

Not me! I'm putting faith in the 8 fucking states that actually matter in a god damn election. What could possibly go wrong, amirite?

It's not a Republican in the White House that gives me the vapours. It's any of these Republicans. They make Dubya look like a legendary statesman.

Romney can't win, due to one overriding factor: money.

Republicans don't like this pampered fuckwit enough to put up the necessary dollars, and President Obama is going to be swimming in moneys. And for all the disgust and sadness that has become mine to cherish, watching the candidate I hustled for in 2007 become a candidate I don't know that I can vote for in 2012, there's no denying that the motherfucker knows how to campaign. Romney is JV in comparison.

Can anyone here explain to a stinking limey, in a precise and succinct way, why Obama isn't winning this hands down, besides racism? What did he do wrong? 

The thing about Romney is that he can't answer a direct question ever.   He'll say, "That's a good question and I'll get to it in a minute but first I want to talk about X (go into stump speech that has nothing to do with the actual question asked), and I'll tell you something else, what we should be concentrating on is getting rid of a president that has done nothing but try to make America into a European Socialist country.   Well I believe America is just fine the way it is!"   Applause from the Lemings and Romney never answers the question he was asked.

I'd say that given all the factors, including the GOP's penchant for rigging elections, I urge everyone who doesn't want one of these candidates to get out the vote, keeping in mind how Republicans have made it so much harder in many states.  Obama will need another landslide to win. 

Sean, he didn't do EVERYTHING WE ALL WANTED IMMEDIATELY, as if he could wipe away 8 years of terrible governance in the First 100 Days. He wasn't the liberal messiah that everyone (never him) made him out to be.

 

Also, the narrative has been tightly controlled by the Republicans, so when they essentially act like that thing in that Anthrax video just yelling at the old guy for 3 minutes, they somehow make it seem like it was all Obama's fault for being yelled at. It's amazing what you can't done when someone makes it their job to stop you. That he's gotten a lot done is something of a political miracle. It hasn't been all roses, but it's been better than everyone makes it out to be and not that one should base one's opinions on hypotheticals, but the alternative...gah. Terrifying.

 

Hey, I hear ya. But I also think it's naive that the party is going to change anytime soon. And Dubya and these clowns really aren't that dissimilar. 

He's like a slightly more intelligent version of Sarah Palin when answering questions, but yeah he has to stick to the script. That's why he was so lost yesterday. He was obviously not coached on that question from King about his dad and tax returns, and it showed.

 

Obama is going to destroy him in the debates.