The 2012 Elections Thread - Page 8

I have to disagree on that one, Closer.  Given the current 87% "congress is teh suck" sentiment, I honestly think we have until summer 2012 before the economy becomes the dagger in the heart.  If there's no discernible change by then, I would imagine one could stick a fork in the Obama Administration.

My guess is that if Obama comes out swinging and then continues to show some passion about his policies, we may be able to get back to a tenable position regarding his potential re-election.  If he keeps being the community organizer he's been, I don't think he'll keep the office.  His base is tired of being reminded of Neville Chamberlain bowing to the Feuhrer to get "peace in our time".

You may be right.  In either case I see it being a real squeaker. 

With Romney on the other side of the equation?

Yeah, I'll buy that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by teledork 

My guess is that if Obama comes out swinging and then continues to show some passion about his policies... 

That's been my whole problem with him. There's been ZERO passion. ZERO strength. He had a mandate, and wimped right the hell out of it.

If the election were being held today, I think I'd vote for The Closer. 

I agree. More theater!

More 'Splosions! More Jeebus! More Tax Cuts!

Just to clarify, that's not what I think The Closer is calling for.

TEH INTERNETZ. I LEARNZ IT.

I don't know about Romney....in watching some video of him IMO, he comes off as awkward and pandering...but pretty much all of the GOP candidates pander to their base.

I get a "trying-to-be-hip" "John Kerry" vibe from Romney...but he is your typical douchebag CEO, so.....

As far as Obama goes, I've been disappointed by not having him stand up to more progressive ideals, but I think that he is holding to his ideals of bridging the partisan divide. Obama is/was at a point where he's damned no matter what decision he makes.

something positive for the progressives = ammo for the GOP to paint him as a "socialist"

something poitive for the conservatives/GOP = he abandoned his progressive 'base'

either way he's fucked....as long as the GOP (big business) continues it's "war" (and in their eyes, it is WAR) against the Dems (progressive values), this country will continue to flounder.....

I heard the author of this article on NPR yesterday...he makes some really valid points, IMO.

<gif>Jon Lovitz<gif>

NOW THAT'S THE TICKET!

(EDIT: Might have worked better before VTRan's post...)

GOP = cult

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/joan_walsh/politics/2011/08/03/destroying_democratic_presidents/index.html

It's unnerving seeing how many people are jumping away from Obama at the moment. One thing the Republicans certainly have over Democrats - they stick by their shitty president, through and through. I think Obama has sometimes been disappointing as president. Some of that has to do with the times. Some of it his decision-making. The other side has certainly made him look weaker and weaker. Maybe he is weak. But it doesn't matter. Even if it is 100% illusion, it is the truth. Even if we suspect its 100% illusion, it is the truth. I like how big the story was that Obama had to move tonight's speech from yesterday to today. And that he quickly agreed to the move. That this was somehow an "icing on the cake" moment, or dirt on Obama's political grave. Like to see some of the passion aimed at that talk time change story spread to something that actually matters. One can dream!

I haven't seen the debates yet, but the argument appears to be "Republicans will give Romney the nomination over Perry based on their policies and rhetoric."

Really? Really. The GOP will do this. The Republican party. The ones who couldn't repudiate "the president is a secret Muslim who wasn't born in America" from the far right. The ones who elevated Rick Perry and Michelle Bachmann in the first place. The party of Fox News. Those people. The ones who had absolutely no enthusiasm for Romney before Perry came along. The ones who think Mormons aren't real Christians and that Massachusetts is Stalinist Russia. The ones who coined the phrase "Obamneycare". Those Republicans.

If the GOP hadn't jumped the shark as badly as it did a while back, I'd say Romney had a good shot. But at this point, the right-wing populist base, as well as the groundswell of enthusiasm, is for Perry. If Romney gets in as candidate, it'll be through backroom shenanigans, and the Tea Party right will turn on the GOP HARD. I wouldn't even rule out a third party candidate. And of course, if Perry gets in, the rest of the country will run screaming from the GOP. Even as a VP pick Perry will probably have a Sarah Palin effect.

Of course, 14 months...that's a lifetime in political terms. But calling Obama done? That seems premature.

Whatever, if I was a left-wing American I'd be focusing all my efforts on getting as many left-wing candidates into the Senate and the Congress as I could. I think between Obama and Romney either of them is going to be tolerable if the legislative branch leans leftward enough. That seems to be where the real blockage for progressive policies is coming from, and that's where the potential to reverse the downhill slide is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick 

It's unnerving seeing how many people are jumping away from Obama at the moment. One thing the Republicans certainly have over Democrats - they stick by their shitty president, through and through. I think Obama has sometimes been disappointing as president. Some of that has to do with the times. Some of it his decision-making. The other side has certainly made him look weaker and weaker. Maybe he is weak. But it doesn't matter. Even if it is 100% illusion, it is the truth. Even if we suspect its 100% illusion, it is the truth. I like how big the story was that Obama had to move tonight's speech from yesterday to today. And that he quickly agreed to the move. That this was somehow an "icing on the cake" moment, or dirt on Obama's political grave. Like to see some of the passion aimed at that talk time change story spread to something that actually matters. One can dream!

Excellent post Matchstick. I feel the same way, mostly.

But you know, a lot can happen in 12 months, especially in our ADD media culture. And most economic indicators are positive, they just aren't growing as fast as people expect/want. (which brings up the question of just what our expectations ought to be going forward). So this time next year Obama could have a relatively strong hand, and face a candidate who's notorious for Flip flopping (Romney) or a candidate who thinks Social Security is a Ponzi scheme  (name your poison).

I think Obama made it clear during the campaign that he wanted to govern from the center. And he has, or has tried to. So why does anyone think a Center Right candidate like Romney would be more effective?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylon Baby . So why does anyone think a Center Right candidate like Romney would be more effective?

 

Who thinks he'd be more effective? I think he'd be a disaster. He's just the least insane Republican candidate at the moment. 

And I haven't given up on Obama, but he certainly hasn't done anything to shore up my support lately, and it looks like the Republicans are more than happy to scrap the country completely in order to defeat him in 2012. If they could figure out a way to blame global warming on him, they'd suddenly embrace empirical scientific evidence like nobody's business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Closer 

If he's (relatively) wise enough to bring Huntsman on as his VP I may actually have to seriously consider getting on board.

 

As of right now I dont see any potential (I) candidates that appeal to me.

If Republicans have to win, this would be ideal.  But I doubt they would put up two white MORMON guys as POTUS and VP candidates.

This pic was taken during a commercial break at last night's debate.   Presented without comment....

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamotv 

This pic was taken during a commercial break at last night's debate.   Presented without comment....

 

Ron Paul's offering Perry a hand job?!

Romney's positions are all far-right nonsense. He's no more preferable to any of the other seven idiots on that stage, and frankly America deserves to self-destruct if you abandon the Democrats one term in after letting the Bush administration fuck things up for eight solid years.

You assume Romney would actually try and do what he says he will.

"Allow me to introduce you to my wake. Over the next several months, you will swim & ultimately drown in it"

"For the last goddamn time, I was NOT in The Goonies!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather 

Romney's positions are all far-right nonsense. He's no more preferable to any of the other seven idiots on that stage, and frankly America deserves to self-destruct if you abandon the Democrats one term in after letting the Bush administration fuck things up for eight solid years.

America already abandoned the Democrat president in 2010 after just two years. Many people may be upset at the lack of Obama's progress but anyone who would prefer any of these nuts over him is insane.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbrother 

America already abandoned the Democrat president in 2010 after just two years. Many people may be upset at the lack of Obama's progress but anyone who would prefer any of these nuts over him is insane.  

I think the idea that America has abandoned Obama and the Dems is a bit of a misnomer due to the fact that the GOP/teaparty nutjobs have a tendancy to shout louder than the Dems, which drowns out the more rational voices.

Also, the fact that the GOP/teaparty are more inclined to be of a groupthink/authoritarian style of politics than the Dems is a huge factor.

The Dems are also capable of the same type of groupthink but there are too many individual voices within it.

I still think there are alot of Obama supporters out there, they just aren't as fanatical as current crop of GOP supporters.....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTRan 

 

I still think there are alot of Obama supporters out there, they just aren't as fanatical as current crop of GOP supporters.....
 

 

The Hitler Youth weren't as fanatical as the current crop of GOP/Tea Party zombies.

I posted this on another forum I frequent....

good to see the TeaParty/GOP audience are consistent with their callous, cruel inhumanity....
 

these individuals are truly sociopathic, compassionless fucks.....

They're actually becoming cartoon villains at this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rain Dog 

They're actually becoming cartoon villains at this point.

heh heh... I just pictured them all dressed like The Monarchs' henchmen.....

where's Brock Samson when you need him...?

You have to wonder what's going to be the Greg-Stillson-shields-himself-with-the-baby moment for these people.

Jesus H. Christ. I can't believe I got so much shit in the Gary Oldman thread for supposedly being intolerant of these fucks.

Jesus H. Christ. I can't believe I got so much stick in the Gary Oldman thread for supposedly being intolerant of these scumbags.

Honestly, I'm not even sure something like that would even work these days.  They'd just spin it that the baby was an unproductive member of society and thus deserved to die, or that it would grow up and eventually STEAL YOUR JOBS! or something equally insane.

I find this particularly disturbing, since I'm basically the exact person described in this scenario.  I'm 30, I've got a good job at the moment, but it doesn't provide healthcare.  I was covered under my parents plan until I turned 26.  When that ended, I bought an individual plan, but they were particularly reluctant to cover me, since I'd had the gall to develop asthma when I was 7.  Sorry, dick move on my part, I know.

Anyways, within a year my premium had almost doubled, despite me not using the plan at all except to get inhalers, and we're not even talking serious meds here.  Basic albuterol, which costs about 40 bucks on their own, and my copay was 20 dollars.  So essentially, I was paying 300 dollars a month for a 40 dollar inhaler. 

Over the years, I tried to find employment that would give me some form of benefits, but was unsuccessful on that front.  Employment, I could find.  Employment with health benefits?  Ha, yeah right.    Eventually, I took a temporary job in another state, and was unceremoniously dropped from my plan, saying I should seek insurance in that state.  I tried to explain it was a temporary situation, but it fell on deaf ears and, oh yeah, you owe us a bunch of money.

Now I find myself in a decent job, in a better financial situation, but it's a freelance position for a very small company so again, no benefits.   Not even sure if I could get individual coverage now, and I'm somewhat reluctant to even find out, considering my previous experience.  Didn't mean to vent/write so much, but this attitude from the tea partiers pisses me off and is completely detached from the reality for many people.  Ah well, guess I should just fuck off and die.

Yes. Yes you should. You're short, your bellybutton sticks out too far, and you're a terrible burden on your poor country!

Yeah I just saw that clip and it's scary as hell.   If Obama were smart, he'd be using this in his campaign stops and ask people, "Is this the America you want?".   I swear we're heading down a path that will lead to fascism.   When a political philiosophy overtake basic compassion, something's wrong.

I'm guessing these are the same people that consider Contagion the, "Feel good hit of the summer!".

Isn't it about time they changed the GOP mascot from an elephant, to a child pulling the wings off flies?

Today's GOP would seem ridiculous, overblown, and cheesy if some screenwriter made them up for a movie.   Same with the Tea Party.   The cliche is that you can't make this stuff up but it's absolutely true.   You can't make this shit up. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatorboy 

I'm guessing these are the same people that consider Contagion the, "Feel good hit of the summer!".

 

Isn't it about time they changed the GOP mascot from an elephant, to a child pulling the wings off flies?

These are probably the folks who think Joffery is the hero in "Game of Thrones"

Whoops! Messed that up!

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamotv 

These are probably the folks who think Joffery is the hero in "Game of Thrones"

Awww hell. Just ignore that mess above (Or better yet, someone please delete).

*cough* Let's try that again.... "That reminds me!"

http://bart-calendar.livejournal.com/tag/game%20of%20primaries

Tea Party Debate

(AP) -- Aspiring GOP presidential candidate Khal Drogo upset the race when he unveiled a new, controversial deficit reduction plan during the CNN Tea Party Debate Monday night.

Drogo proposed eliminating the U.S. Navy - a move that could save an estimated $160 billion - while immediately retreating from both Iraq and Afghanistan.

"Taking military personal through waters the horses cannot drink needs to become a thing of the past," Drogo said. "In addition, it is time for the Khalasars in those wind swept lands to appoint their own Khals and find their own path. Let them ride, I say! Let them ride!"

Drogo said he would also reform both Medicare and Social Security by firing existing government personnel and instead appointing Dosh khaleen to run both programs.

"The Dosh khaleen will eliminate bureaucracy, cut government waste and reduce spending overall," Drogo said. "This is the way to save both systems. It is known."

Drogo's main challenger, Tywin Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock, Shield of Lannisport and Warden of the West accused the Khal of trying to privatize both systems.

"With proper lending practices in place and reasonable interest rates we can pay down the national debt effectively over time," Lannister said. "While Drogo and I disagree on many things, I believe there is no one in this room who would argue that as both president and a Lannister I would make sure we paid our debts."

Lannister said that should he hold office he would appoint his son, noted economist Tyrion Lannister, as head of the federal reserve. He also dismissed Drogo's idea of disengaging from military naval maneuvers as "a reckless idea that could put our country at great risk."

Instead, Lanniser said he would appoint Sandor Clegane as chairman of the Joint Chiefs Of Staff and give him the job of both cutting wasteful military spending and maintaining troops at the highest possible state of readiness.

"Clegane will hound our enemies at every turn," Lannister said.

Texas Governor Rick Perry, a newcomer to the race, tried to parry with both Drogo and Lannister.

"Transforming Social Security from a Ponzi Scheme to a form of top down socialism is not the answer," Perry said. "And, letting Lannister into office will just continue to support the type of Wall Street borrow and spend cronyism policies that got us into dire financial straights in the first place."

Drogo then burst into laughter saying "Look at Gov. Perry's hair! He has no braid! He has no right to lead."

Double post. I think I'll take a break....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Blank 

You have to wonder what's going to be the Greg-Stillson-shields-himself-with-the-baby moment for these people.

When some red state gets hit with a Hurricaine, Earthquake, or Tornado and there's a Republican in the White House.

I imagine if some Congressman flat out calls the President the "N" word, it might get some attention but other than that, it seems like Republicans have carte blanche when it comes to saying whatever with no repurcussions.   I mean Eric Cantor says that the victims of the Joplin tornadoes will only get relief if the money can be offset somewhere else and then says it again in response to the victims of Irene and doesn't suffer serious repurcussions amazes me.   I'm starting to think that being a leader in the modern GOP is bad for your soul. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamotv 

When some red state gets hit with a Hurricaine, Earthquake, or Tornado and there's a Republican in the White House.

 

I imagine if some Congressman flat out calls the President the "N" word, it might get some attention but other than that, it seems like Republicans have carte blanche when it comes to saying whatever with no repurcussions.   I mean Eric Cantor says that the victims of the Joplin tornadoes will only get relief if the money can be offset somewhere else and then says it again in response to the victims of Irene and doesn't suffer serious repurcussions amazes me. 

  I wouldn't be surprised if some of the stuff that Cantor, and the other GOP youth, et al. comes back to bite them in the ass....it may take awhile, but if you choose to exude negativity, it will eventually come full circle....karma's a bitch.

Of course it would help when people stand up and call FoxNews, Limbaugh, OReilly, etc. on the bullshit that they shovel....unfortunately, in many cases, the "4th estate" has dropped the ball in this regard.

  ...or could it be that one's soul is already corrupt and the GOP is just a good fit?

 

Anti-democrat or just anti-incumbent? 

http://news.yahoo.com/twin-defeats-spark-democratic-fears-095700782.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbrother 

Anti-democrat or just anti-incumbent? 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/twin-defeats-spark-democratic-fears-095700782.html

a combination of the two with a big dose of Democratic pessimism/disillusionment....

....but this is the kinda major-league, un-American crap that really has me worried.....

to the GOP/Republicans, politics is war .....and any they will do anything to win.... 

Rick Perry: "All those hours practicing in front of mirror?  WORTH IT"

The electoral college needs to go. It's an antiquated, harmful way of determining the winner of a national election.

Won't happen, of course, because it would remove too much power from the politicians, but it should go.

It should have went away after the 2000 election.   It's ridiculous that we had a president the majority of Americans didn't vote for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamotv 

It should have went away after the 2000 election.   It's ridiculous that we had a president the majority of Americans didn't vote for.

I agree, which is why it should've went away after the 1824 election, and in 1876 and 1888 as well.  And technically, lots of candidates have won with less than 50% of the vote, and less than half the country votes at all, so no one has ever had the majority of Americans vote for them, but I take your meaning. 

Ideally, it should be done away with in one swoop, which would level the playing field, but realistically the only way it will happen is piecemeal, at a state level.  The small states switching won't be a huge deal, but it'll wreak some goddamn havoc when Pennsylvania and California start doing it proportionally while Texas and Ohio still go to the winner.  It sets the idealist and pragmatist in me at odds, because that's the direction I think things need to move overall, but in a partisan sense I fully expect the Republicans to out-gerrymander the Dems and exploit the transitional period to the fullest.

There's actually a solution that allows the states to move towards eliminating the Electoral College without compromising their influence under the current system. I think it was first proposed by a Yale law professor a few years back, but maybe only one or two states have gone along with it so far.

Basically, a state agrees to automatically assign its Electoral College votes to the winner of the nationwide popular vote, but it only kicks in after a majority of states pass similar legislation. I don't remember whether it becomes effective after a majority of states or a majority of EC votes. That way, states otherwise keep their political influence, but leave open the possibility to one day functionally eliminate the Electoral College if enough states follow suit.