The 2012 Elections Thread - Page 78

What is on record is that he graduated from Harvard Magna Cum Laude.

 

You dont achieve that with straight C's.

 

I'm the choir you're preaching at, my friend.

 

The argument will be, of course, that he was "given" that because of race, and that he didn't "earn."

 

I know, I know. 

 

Truce accepted and I just donated to Wisconsin.  In my defense, I'm at work on a particularly grueling day so I may have been unclear but I do want to address this stuff, maybe cleaned up, but I think it's important. 

The question is never asked of Birthers as to why it's so easy for them to believe these outrageous lies about Obama.   Because to believe he faked his BC, you have to accept some very strange and frankly weird things to get there.

 

Thanks.  I appreciate that.  I realize my last post was all over the place.  For me, the individual components of what's going on globally right now are all connected, but I'll try to make a more logical response.

 

1.  Money has a corrosive effect on government.  The only stopgap against this effect is laws and the enforcement of laws.  In a democracy, the force tasked with ensuring that the right laws exist and that they're being enforced is an active, alert and engaged public (and a free press).  For whatever reason, be it self-involvement/self-interest, poverty/overwork, lack of education/exposure to or interest in facts, susceptibility to corporate propaganda, etc., this level of engagement--like a person's immune system--has diminished to dangerous levels.  Because of corporate consolidation/monopolization, the free press is no longer free.  This drift began in the 1970s.  A strong middle class gave rise to a generation that had the luxury of being informed and active enough to assert their will on an intractable political power structure.  Once the engaged '60s fad grew into the "me generation" movement of the '70s and '80s, however, the advent of the "Reagan Democrat" -- a "lefty" who likes his money and is willing to turn a blind eye to the big picture in favor of self-enrichment--the slide began.  The level of engagement dropped and the road to the FUBAR state we find ourselves in now began in earnest.  Which isn't to say that money wasn't scheming long before that.  It just took until the '80s for their seeds of dominance to bear fruit. 

 

2.  My point about Obama leading people out of apathy is not to say it was something permanent.  It was a momentary blip.  I only brought it up to demonstrate that with a public with the attention span of a gnat, it took a charismatic figure and a billion dollars to communicate a clear, broad basic message to shake a few more votes loose than the usual 30%.

 

3.  TO THIS DAY, no one out there understands what happened in the financial meltdown.  You and I may, and Paul Krugman may, but there have been no Pecora Hearings and no Walter Cronkite explaining to people the step-by-step events that brought this about.  In that vacuum, regular people of all political stripes still see it as vaguely the fault of people who took out loans they couldn't afford.  When you see the concrete world around you, and what's visible is people taking out loans and what's invisible is the lobbying and backroom deals by extremely rich and connected men, then when things go south, it's only logical to blame what's in front of your eyes.  Hence the disconnect.  So, you're Obama and you're facing a massive economic plunge and deep recession no matter what you do.  So what do you do, continue the course set down by your predecessor or do something dramatically different?  No matter which choice you make, in the short term, that fall is coming.  If you change course, your new course is suddenly at fault, not the policies that led the economy to the edge of the cliff.  No.  If you fire Geithner and bring in Paul Krugman, Krugman gets the blame and you can kiss any Keynesian policies good bye for decades because "Krugman crashed the economy"--not "lack of regulation crashed the economy."  This is why Obama held a steady course on many fronts.  This is what you have to do in the environment of right wing think tanks, a corrupted corporate media and a disengaged, uninformed public. 

 

Also, there's the fact that any moves against the financial services industry, even something as mild as Dodd-Frank, inspires a s***storm of spending against anyone who supported it.  Just for trying to pass a stet tax, Congressman Pete DeFazio got nuked by two investment bankers in Long Island and barely survived.  Going up against these kings and queens without the public knowing what they did wrong is political suicide. 

 

4.  I'll cede White House logs.  But in addition to putting the wars on the actual budget and bringing transparency to so many of his initiatives, as I said before, in terms of national security and the "war on terror," people like Tim Weiner say he's a vast improvement to Bush/Cheney, who did all their s*** in secret, and the fact that we even know enough about it to criticize it online and in the press is an improvement.  Much of what Obama's continuing was initiated under Bush/Cheney, but not reported and not criticized or protested against. 

 

More later...

 

I think this is a legitimate point.  Perhaps it is cynical to say "at least we know about it," but I've been on this beat for a long time, decades.  This policy isn't new.  I wish our whole history were different when it comes to South America, the Middle East, Africa, Asia, but there are undisputed facts that led up to this moment, facts most people walking around are either oblivious or completely indifferent to.  These are the people he's governing, and most of them don't give two s***s about what he does.  But there are people who are very interested in this because, again, national security is what big business and the right are chomping at the bit to get him on.  Bush's response to blowback in the Middle East was to declare war (well, along with other things like oil and gas).  Obama's is drone strikes and the kill list.  I don't like either.  But I don't think the President with 400X the amount of death threats and an unchecked military/intelligence contractor complex breathing down his neck is going to be the one to totally upend US foreign policy of the last century.  I would love it, but he wouldn't last a day longer if he did. 

 

In this scenario, one success by an Anwar al-Awlaki type and all those people who didn't give two s***s about foreign policy are suddenly experts, and know in their heart of hearts that Obama can't protect America.  That ushers in the next Bush/Cheney, and I would blame people who are less "cynical" than myself for that.   

 

So, I'm not saying I approve of this policy, but I understand why he probably feels he has to do it this way. 

 

In terms of him owning it, he does own it, doesn't he? 

 

 

That's fine.  I think this President is the best we can hope for given the current status of ELECTIONS and campaign finance in this country.  I don't think a Bernie Sanders (my idol) could get elected when it costs $1 billiion dollars to even get in the game.  And the only people with that kind of money are the actual villains in this scenario.  Not to mention how the media likes to not include people in their debates that might say something truthful.  Not to mention that only 30% of the people bother to vote and electronic voting is rigged anyway and even then it all goes to the idiotic electoral college system.  In some cases (2000) to the Supreme Court. 

 

You want something better, work on the local level to overturn Citizens United locally, for public financing of elections, instant run-off voting, and no electronic voting.  That would be a start. 

 

By the way, I respect the hell out of you too and think that discussions like this are a good opportunity to really think things through, so thanks. 

I want a certified statement with witnesses! EYE witnesses!

 

I'm not saying "back off the President" or "back up the President". I'm explicitly saying you should be criticizing him, loudly, so that pressure builds on the Congress and Administration to effect the changes you want. Because otherwise they'll be like "Hey we must be doing A-OK!"

 

This! It gets more organizations in trouble than anything else if people do not express what is going wrong and going right. We constantly tell ourselves that we are doing fine, a ok, we are good here compared to those asshats over there. And instead of fixing what can be fixed, the small things, we bitch about the big things, and nothing works as well as it could. We live with mediocrity. Our system works; if we can fix a few small things, it would work smoothly. Instead, we rage against the machine as a whole and the entire thing is hung together with spit and baling wire.

 

I am changing jobs and I want to go back to my former job and have an exit interview (yeah, we don't have them at that job) to tell them truly why I am leaving. They assumed it is money, which of course is part of it, but damn there is so much more. I was going to be leaving even if there was no increase in pay.

Can't imagine Obama having a worse week, on the re-election front. At least, on top of it, Clinton didn't praise Romney. 

 

Oh, wait.

 

What's really scary and IMO, pretty morally reprehensible is that the GOP is jizzing all over these issues. They would love nothing more for the economy to completely fucking tank...just one more bullshit talking point to feed to their base.

 

Krugman hit on something in his most recent column (and that interview he did in the UK).

I'm guessing most here are already in the choir.....

  Friday I caught the first couple of minutes of Martin Bashir. His opening had clips of Cantor and Romney looking kinda happy about the job numbers. Maybe the numbers would be better if congress had approved Obama's jobs bill. Romney's plan to fix the economy is more of what wrecked it in the first place. If people just paid a little attention to the news, they would know Romney has no creditability on the economy!

With every passing week, month, and year I wonder if this country really has to crash and burn before people get a clue. Romney is somehow an acceptable presidential candidate in some average Americans eyes? Walker may survive the Wisconsin recall? How can people be this fucking stupid. Loki's humanity speech is becoming more true by the day. "In the end, you will always kneel" 
 

More weird Ron Paul delegate stuff, as they try to grab the majority of the Louisiana seats: http://www.policymic.com/mobile/article/id/9163  

 

Are the people doing that on their own, does the Paul campaign have anything to do with it any more?  I mean, their guy has quit campaigning?

As someone who lives in Louisiana, shenanigans like this are about as surprising as sand on the seashore.  There have been similar reports in other states of the GOP amending or ignoring rules to prevent success for the Paul camp, but leave it to my state to be the one where the cops are brought in to dislocate hips.

 

 

My understanding is that the Paul campaign is simply not spending money in upcoming primary states, but the plan to grab as many delegates as possible at the state conventions remains in full force.

That's it. Paul never stopped being a guy who is running; his campaign just shifted its focus toward getting as many delegates from caucus states as possible.

it's 2012 and yet we still have to deal with this kind of mind numbing political (and religious) irrationality....

 

R Maddow had writer Gail Collins on tonight. She was talking about her new book

 

"As Texas Goes...: How the Lone Star State Hijacked the American Agenda"

 

excerpt from the book at the Daily Beast

What in the history of these United States has ever convinced you otherwise? We've crashed and burned numerous times but revolutionary fervor is always funneled into the mainstream political and economic interests becoming diluted.

The American people, as a whole, always have been and always will be sheep ready to be bought off for minor comforts. The only real hope any of us has is to do right by ourselves, our families, our friends and communities. Love as you want to be loved, help those who need help and try your very best each day to be as enlightened and understanding as you can and as small of a petty, selfish asshole as you can be. I've come to realize that everything else, all the politics, all the indignation at how fucked governments are and unreasonable and even cruel societies can be, is just pissing into the wind my friend.

Look at dat face. Mitt Romney is basically the corporate asshole villain found in every '80s comedy.

 

Were you waiting for Kenny Fucking Powers to weigh in on this November's election?

 

Well, your wait is over.

 

Rumor is he was at the Bilderberg meeting:  http://wonkette.com/474568/did-bilderberg-monsters-just-crown-mitt-romney-your-next-leader#more-474568

 

So he's the new president.  Just get used to it now.

Clinton goes two for two in as many weeks. Back-to-back!

 

And, of course, back-to-back backtracks.

I'm so irritated with Bill Clinton for going along with the Romney/Bain con job.  What is his problem?

It's his M.O. to kiss everyone's ass. Remember back when he went on talk shows and said shit like, "Am I the only one who likes John Kerry and George Bush?"

Why yes, Bill, you are. 

Terrible.  He also still defends shredding Glass Steagall.  I think it's part wanting to be Mr. Friendly and part being tied up with financial services industry. 

Wonkette weekly roundup:

 

Romeny does not understand this 'donut' you are serving him http://wonkette.com/474818/doughnut-identification-glitch-detected-in-mitt-romney-software#more-474818

 

Rand Paul endorses Romney, Paultard's reactions are as expected: http://wonkette.com/474834/paultards-traumatized-by-rand-paul-s-romney-endorsement

http://news.yahoo.com/gop-groups-top-democrats-tv-spending-far-130628921.html

 

As if we need any more proof after Wisconsin that the most money will win.
 

and to add to the GOP subterfuge....

There was a piece on NPR the other day about this as well.

 

 

and if that wasn't enough....

 

so......what does ProPublica do?

 

If TV Stations Won’t Post Their Data on Political Ads, We Will

 

if you're a news/political junkie, Pro Publica is a site is worth checking out regularly

Clinton is a Star Fucker at this point. He loves hanging out with The Rich, and in addition he's shilling for his Foundation, so he needs the contributions of Hedge Fund guys as well as Bain types.

 

But there is (I think) something else going on: lots of people in the Democratic establishment are bridling at Obama's rhetoric on Bain. It's not doing Obama any favors amongst rank and file businesspeople either: they've always been suspicious of Obama's support of business, and this new round of attacks just makes them feel they are justified. Clinton may well be pushing Obama to cool it with the Class War talk.

I will admit, it will be interesting (and sad, of course) to see the Dems lose this to a fractured as fuck Republican party. But if anyone can do it, the Dems certainly can.

So, like, Gary Johnson needs to poll at least at 15% to get into the national debates. I say, get him in there. C'mon, guys. They'll be boring as shit without him.

 

Johnson is nothing more than a 'hip' Ron Paul

 

I'm sick and tired of hearing about the libertarian fantasy world where everyone is happy, behaves morally, and no one has to pay any taxes.

been there, done that.....

 

Yeah, but that attitude that ended up stripping so many meaningful banking regulations, which of course led to the '08 meltdown and megabanks of today.  If it's class warfare, the banking types started it and they're winning.  I hope the President sticks to his guns.  He's not talking about class warfare, only the right is.  It's like Romney's slimey "class envy" line.  Clinton can be a great orator when he wants to and can boil complex ideas down to plain speech in an admirable way.  But I do think to a certain extent he believes in "the markets."  He was on the Daily Show a few years ago and explained the meltdown as simply that there was "too much capital" laying around but didn't speak to why all this excess capital was available to the greedier members of the financial services industry -- it's because it was stolen from investors, pension funds and home buyers. 

 

 

He is a crank and a utopianist, but I would prefer more mixed debates.  Maybe a progressive could sneak in as well if the debates were more open, rather than just the two.

Andrew Sullivan on racism and the 2012 vote:

 

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/06/chart-of-the-day-3.html

 

Steel yourselves for the Romney years folks.

Huh: only 3-5 % of voters went against Obama because of his race. That is actually encouraging.

John Sununu reaffirms the Romney campaign's new meme that the nation is suffering from a surplus of law enforcement, firefighters, and school teachers. This is a thing that Mitt is seriously running on, until he changes his mind.

 

My Fox-viewing childhood friend on FB is a firefighter.  I would like to think this will sway him but I doubt it.  His Obama-hate is too strong.

 

More the better for Democrats if he siphons Paulites away from Romney. Johnson would at least help push issues to be covered that Obama and Romney can't be bothered with.

 We all remember after 9/11 that fire fighters and the police where called the real heroes. Now Rush Limbaugh is saying they add nothing to the economy. How can this make any sense to people?!  Maybe Rush's car will get stolen and he will have a great time talking to the police.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Rush turned on the police right around the time he was picked up at the airport arriving from an overseas sex vacation with illegally obtained Viagra.

I know this guy is long out of the running but if this is accurately reported, this is just awful.

 

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/01/how-rick-santorum-ripped-off-american-military-veterans

 

The Home is the Armed Forces Retirement home and they are increasingly having financial difficulties.

 

 

Under one scenario, by leasing the parcel of land and letting it be developed, the Home could pocket $105 million in income over 35 years for its trust fund, David Lacy, then-chairman of the Home's board of directors, told Congress in 1999. Lacy stressed that the Home wanted to keep the property, and not offload it to a buyer. "Once land is sold," he said, "it is lost forever as an asset."

Enter Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Penn.). At the behest of the Roman Catholic Church, and unbeknownst to the Home, Santorum slipped an amendment into the 1999 National Defense Authorization Act handcuffing how the home could cash in on those 49 acres. The amendment forced the Home to sell—and not lease—the land to its next-door neighbor, the Catholic University of America. Ultimately, the Catholic Church bought 46 acres of the tract for $22 million. The Home lost the land for good, and by its own estimates, pocketed $27 million less than the land's value and $83 million less than what it could've made under the lease plan. Santorum's amendment sparked an outcry from veterans' groups and fellow US senators, who barraged his office with complaints.

Here's an interesting interactive map comparing drone attacks in Pakistan the Bush administration and Obama administration made while in office

I love it that Romney's takeaway from Wisconsin is that people don't want more firefighters, police, and teachers.   Take away the party labels and the lesson really is that a campaign built around a referendum on the incumbent doesn't really work.  Which is exactly the campaign Mitt is running.

I think that's definitely a card in Obama's hand. It's not enough to have an incumbent that people find disagreeable; you also have to have a candidate of your own who is worth a damn if you want to replace him. Romney is John Kerry, if Kerry had received four draft deferments and gone on to become a venture capitalist who closed down American job creators.

ETA: That didn't take long. Romney now say's it's completely absurd to accuse him of standing in opposition to the hiring of law enforcement officers, firefighters, and teachers. "That's a very strange accusation. Of course teachers, and firemen, and policemen are hired at the local level and also by states. The federal government doesn't pay for teachers, firefighters, or policemen. So obviously that is completely absurd."

His exact words after the Wisconsin gubernatorial recall vote: "He [Obama] says we need more firemen, more policeman, more teachers. Did he not get the message of Wisconsin? The American people did. It’s time for us to cut back on government and help the American people."

Obviously, that is completely absurd, as the man says.
Edited by Reasor - 6/12/12 at 1:39pm

 On the Scott Walker thread there was talk that Jon Stewart had lately been being using a bit of both sides do it logic. Tonight he did do a great piece on the voter purge in Florida. His guest was Colin Powell. I liked that Stewart disagreed with him when he said that the Iraq was still the right thing because even though there where no WMDs, if the sanctions had been lifted, Saddam would have developed them again.

Saw this on Facebook (a right wing friend commented on it lambasting all the ignorant liberals for laughing at it).  Thought it was legit.

 

 

 

 

Did the Timecube.com guy write all that?

Whoever wrote this was obviously trying to be funny but the craziest thing is that if you dole these things out one at a time to a right winger, it would make sense to them.   Only when you combine all the crazy things said about Obama do you get a clear picture of how insane the Right has truly become.