TAG TEAM REVIEW: THE WALKING DEAD #4

I guess this fucking piece of shit show can't do anything right, huh?

What's worse: this show's inconsistency, or the people that get mad when the show's inconsistency is pointed out?

I think this show is the worst, it's just the worst show on TV. Can you believe there are actually moments on this show where the characters just talk to each other? They aren't being eaten by Zombies in every single frame. What a shitty show.

This show should NEVER deviate from the main concept "Nom nom Zombie kitchen!" Why the hell would this show ever try to make some scenes have a different tone than other scenes? So stupid! It's madness.

Hey, we found a new source of outing lunatics on the boards!

What are you talking about? I asked for it in the other thread too. Where did anyone say that the problem is that there aren't enough zombies? Who are you arguing against? All I've seen people complain about are character and plot. Did anyone break out in some sort of "OMG! SO BORING! MOAR ZOMBIES!" rant and I passed over it?

Hardly. The absurd amount of nitpicking is just tiring.

Where is this vitriol coming from? "How dare someone make a show about zombies that I find to be subpar!" If you dislike the show, then.... don't watch it?

Just for the record: I'm not watching the show, but I think the "backlash" to the shows imperfections, such as it is, comes from the fact that the show was endlessly hyped as "DARABONT+ZOMBIES+AMC=BEST TV SHOW EVER"

When it turned out to be just an enjoyable Zombie show and not a genre/medium redefining undertaking, perhaps people felt let down

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the season one DVD so I can catch up on the fun

(just MHO for what it's worth)

This is a site where people watch stuff and then give their opinions on them. In fact watching stuff and then talking about them is the most important thing this site does. "If you don't like it, don't watch it" is a really new and exciting argument towards critics.

Such a lazy argument. People really can't take it that others have perfectly valid criticism.

I'm glad we didn't include the video of us burning Kirkman in effigy, while Darabont's children watched. Close call.

We're backing our opinions with facts and discourse. What the fuck more do you want?

We don't WANT to hate this show. Unlike some internet writers, we make our mind up AS WE WATCH it rather than before.

Well, first off, it's a 6 part TV series, not a film. It requires you to drop what you're doing each week for over a month, so I think it's a fair question. Obviously it's Nick and the others job to watch and give their take, my comment was more directed at some of the people in the other thread, I could have been clearer, but I honestly find it strange that people who dislike the show so much continue to tune in.

But the major point I was getting at, was this insane sense of entitlement among people and here and internet nerds in general. Alot of talented people made a show about a post apocalyptic zombie filled wasteland, and many of the people critical of the show are acting like Frank Darabont personally slapped their mom. I'm not even trying to debate the merits or quality of the show, I'm just astounded by the level of hostility from the people who don't like it.

Norm Reedus up in this. Can I get a witness?

This made me laugh more than it should. And isn't entirely off the mark.

I will depart ways with Elisabeth over her frustration with Andrea's storyline. I felt it was organic and real that she would become obsessed with her sister's birthday. Not only because their age difference means that they likely never spent that much time together before Zombiepocalypse, but its an acknowledgment that life must go on. Like the old guy and his watch, the survivors want, need, some semblance of a normal life. If you give up caring about things like birthdays and time, then you might as well give up on life 'cause at that point you're just surviving, you're not living.

Macken, we stick around because we've committed to covering the show for our readers.

I'm enjoying the show, despite its flaws.

I just wish Max Brooks had sold WORLD WAR Z to HBO, SHOWTIME, or AMC. Now that deserves to be an annual 13 part series, rather than a movie - directed by Marc Foster, of all people - languishing in development hell.

Here's my take -- there's a huge contingent of people watching this show who have all had their own zombie fanfic in their heads for years now. A show comes along, with a lot of hype and expectation, based on a popular but divisive source material and helmed by a popular but also divisive filmmaker. So --

-- half the nerds watching either want it to be the greatest thing that ever happened, and the other half either secretly want it to fail, or they want it to do every thing their zombie show would do the exact way they would do it.

The show's not perfect. It's not The Wire or BSG -- hell, it may not even end up being Lost. I've seen a lot of legitimate gripes on the boards. I've also seen a lot of stupid nitpicking and nerd-griping. The level of scrutiny is getting is absurd and the hyperbole is getting louder and louder with every episode. I think rather than telling those who don't like the show to "stop watching", it might be more constructive for those enjoying the show to stop paying attention to the internet coverage.

Again this is an argument that does not apply to the site's writers. This show is a big deal. It treads on familiar too CHUD territory. People that are favorites to both the site's staff and its readers are involved. Of course reviewing it is part of the site's job.

This was a great read. After this and Boardwalk Empire, I'd love to see more of these discussions for other shows as well.

But I have to ask - where are these DTV zombie flicks that look better than The Walking Dead? I vowed I would never watch another DTV zombie movie after the Ving Rhames Day of the Dead remake raped my brain, but apparently I'm missing out.

There aren't any; that gripe is absurd and without merit. The show is shot in super 16 to give it a grainy feel and it looks great.

Seriously, can we all agree on just one thing -- that Nicotero's zombies look amazing? Because if we can't all at least be on the same page there than there really is no fixed point of discussion. It's all just chaos.

I think the zombie work and production values are fantastic, and the writing is just okay.

Nice to see Sebastian's standard "This show isn't supposed to be The Wire!" argument. You've posted that, what, ten times now?

Great review.

Actual discussion over in the Walking Dead thread has ceased ... not that it was ever really there. It's pretty much turned into this ...



If you offer ANY criticism of the show, you will be shouted down as A) A simple troll B) A nefarious nitpicker, or C) Someone who wanted the show to fail from the outset.

I too am committed until at least the end of the season, and there are a lot of things I LIKE about the show. That being said, I'm not going to give it a pass simply because of the genre.

I think Nick distilled it down perfectly when he said, "I just think that you like so many hardcore horror fans are giving a lot of the elements of the show a pass because it exists. If this was a theatrical flick it'd have been eviscerated. Somehow, because it's on AMC and that it's a zombie show with gore it's all good."

Simple question, and I don't think this has been asked ... To the people who unequivocally LOVE this show, What criticism would you accept and actually discuss that you WOULD NOT consider a nitpick? A specific example would be great.

I understand that, you've got a job to do and I respect that. I amended my post right after I posted it because I realized it was giving the impression that I was curious why you and Renn and the others kept watching, and that's not what I was trying to get across.

I was trying to figure out where the hostility towards the show is coming from, and I think Kate actually addressed that the most sensibly.

....with dirt, like a gravedigger.

The show is far from perfect, and I hope for improvements come season 2. But tell me you'd rather be watching Desperate Housewives or Skating With The Stars rather than something that could be great given a little more time and attention?

Indeed. I find this "why don't you stop watching the show" argument incredibly bizarre. How exactly do people think sites like CHUD work? Obviously things here are looser and sillier than over at the New Yorker, but Nick said "We're doing Tag Team coverage of The Walking Dead." So we are. I don't get up a leave during movies I'm not enjoying that CHUD assigns me to.

I also don't see how complaining about things as vital as character and dialogue and storylines are "nitpicking." I'd say that praising the zombie FX is inverse nitpicking. That is totally surface level.

Just from the shows thread I could see this coming. I'm still totally on board with the show, but can see it's faults, especially when they are pointed out to me. I'm not so invested that I can't see reason.

Also, it's silly to tell someone to stop watching. Maybe the show will turn around for them. It's only 4 episodes in, plenty of time to get better.

Personally, I think that many of the differences in opinion stem from differing expectations. I don't know the source material, I'm not familiar with all the zombie movie tropes, and I have no real knowledge of Darabant. I came in with exactly zero expectations and what I've seen so far has exceeding that. Yes, there are faults. But many of the ones that people have mentioned aren't the ones that I would point out. Different strokes, though. Because I have no real investment in this, it doesn't seem to bother me that others may criticize it. This show has seemed to bring out some hard core defenders. It's really bizarre reading the threads on this show.

That's the biggest problem. What it COULD be vs. what it is.

Only two episodes left in this season though then it's on hiatus for a year. I do agree that season 2 is gonna be the make or break, but what they do with these six episodes is gonna color the ratings success of 2, because what we have here is gonna have to sit with us for all that time.

This is also true - what are some of you dudes' definition of "nitpicking?" These are really broad, perpetual things we're pointing out. The very opposite of nitpicking.

Just chiming in to say that while this show hasn't blown my mind out of my ass on a regular basis post-pilot, it'll have a moment or two per episode that really cooks. For example, Laurie Holden fucking brought it and then some when her character's sister snuffed it this time around.

Seconded, almost to the letter. I don't know about "having no real investment in it" (for me, I mean) - I really like the show, and plan on watching Season Two when it airs next year. But I don't watch for the same things the Tag Teamers do, and don't have shitloads of zombie tropes, trivia and movies under my belt to compare it.

That said, I appreciate the criticisms because they help me watch something with a different viewpoint, and help me think about visual storytelling more, rather than just being a passive viewer.

Nah, I was just being snarky about Nick's incomprehensibly bad review for this show. It's comically biased when held up next to this week's Boardwalk Empire review. I love BE too, but jesus, you want to talk about a show with wildly inconsistent characters?

Boardwalk's flaws are minor compared to this. But that you're ripping my writing in defense of this show speaks volumes.

Ok, I meant that you gave it a bad review, not that your writing was bad. Sorry for the incorrect phrasing on my part. What I meant to convey is that I think you guys are ripping TWD for stuff that you give other shows/films/whatever a pass on. Not sure if that is subconscious bias, or what, but I see it.

This show is criminally unoriginal. It's Romero fanfic.
Since everyone has seen this scenario before, all that is left to discuss are the finer details. Hence the "nitpicking."

Don't get me wrong. This is appointment TV for me, and I'd be highly upset if it were canceled. It's better than 99% of the dreck on TV these days.

I'd say that is a valid critique of our critiques. Though if you reread our early BOARDWALK tag teams, you'll see that after the pilot a lot of us were bitching about the show - it only became a true circle jerk in the past couple eps. The big difference is that the pilot hooked us all and showed us that this creative team was capable of making its parts work. THE WALKING DEAD failed to hook many of us in the pilot, which means that each new episode must do so (and hasn't). Bottom line: BOARDWALK gave us a reason early on to overlook its growing pains; WALKING DEAD didn't.

EDIT: I just want to say I'm really happy we have Alex championing the show though, proving that this isn't some vast CHUD conspiracy.

Not wanting to appeal to authority it is nice that after putting my thoughts down last night in the other thread they are somewhat echoed by professionals.

The show has a crumbling exterior and the patch jobs underneath show too often.

Fair enough, thank you for being candid. I usually really enjoy the reviews you gents right, and agree completely on Boardwalk. It had me from the get go. I have been put off by the official CHUD hate on The Walking Dead In the critiques.

I love this show and enjoy it a lot!

See it's so nice to like something cause you don't have to argue why.

I think I would have swallowed it better had the show not basically consistently undermined every woman character. Look, they care about laundry! They miss their vibrators! They're ironing! They're passive-aggressive towards their lovers because he lied to them!

After hell Andrea just came from -- she nearly died in Atlanta! -- and her conversation with Rick about the necklace and the collapse of rules, it's hard to believe this character just sinks back into a shallow search for wrapping paper. You're sobbing and screaming as you reunite with your sister ... isn't that the moment when you decide "I'll live every day as if it is my last" and just give her the necklace?

Add to it that Andrea smirks in this "OMG, stupid!" way as Dale is talking about Time just made her look even more shallow ... like someone who really does care more about wrapping paper than the symbolism of properly celebrating a birthday. If they are trying to say yes, this is something Andrea really cares about, then it would have been nice if she'd been like "Yeah, Dale's right!" instead of rolling her eyes like a teenager.

I just wish one of these female characters acted as if she had a brain and a spine. I can practically hear the wind whistling through the ears, especially if Lori gets a close-up. It's like they all wake up and have to be told the dead walk the earth all over again. And then Shane says "Ya'll know I'm the last man on earth?" and they fuck him. And then they go "OMG! You lied!" when Dale or Rick walks by.

I'm trying to make you laugh again. And failing, probably!

I actually loved The Walking Dead pilot -- and I even said I liked this episode, but it got kind of lost in my nitpicking. I admit, I nitpicked this one.

It's frustrating to get this kind of response. I don't enjoy criticizing something, especially when I was looking forward to the show. I think that's a big misconception with what we do-- we don't WANT to hate anything!

Fantastic.