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The Rock & Vin Diesel *Last Action Heroes*

post #1 of 35
11/26/10 at 3:53am
Thread Starter 
Pretty much these two have the machismo and image to carry the torch that Arnold and Sly have left behind due to old age. What makes Rock and Vin Diesel unique is that their not your typical ''White'' American hero. They happen to be from a diverse background and they appeal to people from different cultures. Arnold and Sly had that to a certain degree - but their demo is pretty much older White guys.

I saw FASTER on Wednesday, it wasn't packed - but the crowd was a unique mix of Asian, Black, White and Hispanic. It was really neat to see. The Rock has great charisma - but his roles don't appeal to inner action junkies that many grew up on w/ Arnold and Sly. The Rock has this appeal where a diverse group of people are willing to pay him kick major ass and be entertained. So far, he is a major disappoint. I always still after when the credits play and I saw the crowd for FASTER dejected and speak of disappoint after seeing it. If Rock keeps up w/ these roles, he's going to fade away and nobody is going to pay to see him anymore in movies unless they are totally kick-ass. IMHO: he needs to really pick his roles and bring the pain. Possibly talk to Jerry Bruckheimer/Joel Silver and hook-up w/ Walter Hill and/or Michael Bay.

Vin Diesel is making money w/ the FAST & FURIOUS franchise. I don't think he really gives a fuck because he's safe making movies that turn a profit. What I'm trying to get at is that: Rock and Diesel unite people from different cultures and they aren't making movies that will define them and labeled as action icons when their time is done. I don't think they fully understand what kind of unique position that they're in. If they did - we'd be given some badass movies to whoop and holler about.
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post #2 of 35
11/26/10 at 4:03am
I wish The Rundown had been a hit.
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post #3 of 35
11/26/10 at 4:25am
Johnson yes, Diesel no.

Ole Vin works as Riddick but that's about it for me. Dwayne on the other hand has oodles of talent to burn.
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post #4 of 35
11/26/10 at 5:08am
Vin, by force of will, is gonna get Riddick 2 and probably 3 made. Then Pitch Black will be his Hobbit. One of the things I like about him best, is that he is one of us.

Johnson however, is the better actor, and has more charisma.
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post #5 of 35
11/26/10 at 6:50am
Jason Statham would like to have a word with this thread. And that word is CUNT.
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post #6 of 35
11/26/10 at 7:10am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
Jason Statham would like to have a word with this thread. And that word is CUNT.
FUCK Jason Statham. We're talking about a diverse fanbase and likability. His movies don't appeal to a wide fanbase. Plus, he did a movie w/ Uwe Boll. He can fuck off.
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post #7 of 35
11/26/10 at 7:14am
In my estimation, Statham is the only current actor fit to carry the mantle. No matter what shit he stars in, I'm guaranteed to be entertained. Neither The Rock nor Diesel do very much for me. I never get excited about their movies the way I would about a new Schwarzenegger film - they just don't have that *it* factor.

EDIT: And Forsaken, seriously, what wide fanbase are you talking about? You might have been with a racially mixed crowd but their films make about 3 cents.
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post #8 of 35
11/26/10 at 7:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
In my estimation, Statham is the only current actor fit to carry the mantle. No matter what shit he stars in, I'm guaranteed to be entertained. Neither The Rock nor Diesel do very much for me. I never get excited about their movies the way I would about a new Schwarzenegger film - they just don't have that *it* factor.
When it comes to at least the former, I'd argue that that says a lot more about the state of the modern big budget action film as a genre (come on, the superhero movie has stolen its thunder for the last decade), than it does about Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson.
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post #9 of 35
11/26/10 at 7:31am
Johnson has that likeability that bridges gaps. people love him, i just don't think they like the movies he is in.

desial always seen 1 note until knockaround guys. i really love his 'fighting count' speech. he (same as dwayne) needs to find a good script or two to get over.

still, other then those 3, who do we have for good quality action stars?
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post #10 of 35
11/26/10 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
When it comes to at least the former, I'd argue that that says a lot more about the state of the modern big budget action film as a genre (come on, the superhero movie has stolen its thunder for the last decade), than it does about Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson.
Maybe, but he's shown a real unwillingness to embrace the genre these past few years. Look at some of the clag John Cena's starred in - that could've been improved tenfold with someone as charismatic as Johnson in the lead.
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post #11 of 35
11/26/10 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
Jason Statham would like to have a word with this thread. And that word is CUNT.
We have a winner! Statham pretty much is the quintessential New Action Hero IMO. The problem is that Johnson and Diesel sadly haven't proven themselves to be quite bankable yet. I love The Rundown and the Riddick movies but neither exactly set the box office on fire when released. Whereas Statham has carved a nice niche for himself, Johnson and Diesel are kinda just floating around with the roles they take. Unless one or the other score a massive breakout hit or they switch to doing straight DTV flicks I just don't think producers are gonna go to them when they can have someone like Statham who has proven himself relatively bankable. It sucks but what can ya do?

EDIT: Kinda what everyone else said. I need to type faster.
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post #12 of 35
11/26/10 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
When it comes to at least the former, I'd argue that that says a lot more about the state of the modern big budget action film as a genre (come on, the superhero movie has stolen its thunder for the last decade), than it does about Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson.
I don't know. The Transporter and Crank prove that when done right the genre still has some life in it.
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post #13 of 35
11/26/10 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
Maybe, but he's shown a real unwillingness to embrace the genre these past few years. Look at some of the clag John Cena's starred in - that could've been improved tenfold with someone as charismatic as Johnson in the lead.
Could it? Or was Johnson savvy enough to realise that it was a genre that after 20 years was not what it once was?

Look at The Rundown(/Welcome To The Jungle) or Walking Tall - neither set the world on fire but you can't say that Johnson didn't give the genre a go - hell Arnie passed the baton to him for chrissake, yet the general public just wasn't onboard (the state of Arnies last few films speaks to that as well).

Can you really blame him for switching trains at that point? The guy wanted (and deserved) to be a star, not stuck in straight-to-dvd dreck.
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post #14 of 35
11/26/10 at 8:00am
You don't become a star by taking every awful Disney family comedy that you get offered, though. He just switched up one suspect career path for another.
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post #15 of 35
11/26/10 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
You don't become a star by taking every awful Disney family comedy that you get offered, though. He just switched up one suspect career path for another.
In this we agree - but he was never going to go anywhere in what was at the time a faded genre.

As has been said a hundred times, he entered movies ten years too late, leaving him as the proverbial 'man without a country'
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post #16 of 35
11/26/10 at 8:12am
Michael Jai White - This man has been brilliant in some straight to DVD MMA movies and if he got a starring role in a fairly high budget movie he could be the next Wesley Snipes....I'm not mentioning Spawn.....
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post #17 of 35
11/26/10 at 8:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
EDIT: And Forsaken, seriously, what wide fanbase are you talking about? You might have been with a racially mixed crowd but their films make about 3 cents.
That says a lot about The Rock & Diesel. They have a universal appeal. It's evident. I don't see that in Statham.

The Rock's movies aren't such a hit, I agree. But c'mon Evi... w/ Diesel his latest FAST & FURIOUS dropped $70 mil opening weekend and did over over $350 mil worldwide box office. That's more than 3 cents for Diesel. I credit that to his presence despite the weak script and director of the movie.
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post #18 of 35
11/26/10 at 8:28am
Problem with The Rock is he didn't find his little B-movie action niche like Statham, and he doesn't have any crossover hit franchises to keep him afloat like Diesel. It's probably a testament to the goodwill that seems to surround him that he still gets given so many chances despite never really having more than a modest hit. But he might be doomed to be the right man at the wrong time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenNoMore View Post
That says a lot about The Rock & Diesel. They have a universal appeal. It's evident. I don't see that in Statham.
Statham works on a smaller scale but he's easily had the most consistent career of these guys. Diesel tried to hit the mainstream and succeeded for a while before crashing and burning, he only saved his career by retreating back to the franchises he thought he was bigger than. If The Rock has 'universal appeal' then why can't he produce a hit doing what he's best at?
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post #19 of 35
11/26/10 at 8:59am
Johnson could be almost* as big as Arnold, but he doesn't have the great directors guys like(and specifically) Arnold had. Cameron, Milius, Verhoeven, McTeirnan, Lester(heh)...
Those action directors aren't really around anymore. Cameron is still doing old-school action, but he's doing it in the most high-tech and crowd-pleasing way possible.

Diesel was lucky, as was said earlier, to get a crowd-pleaser franchise and meet a certain Mr. Twohy(who is still underrated as fuck). He's a good actor to boot, I'd like to see him in something great. Ditto for the Rock.

Sorry if I repeated anything or too much of what was said above. Just skimmed the thread. Exhausted from my poor choice of doing the black Friday thing.

*Despite the Expendables being a hit, there's still a lack of "tough" people being action stars in the last decade. From Neo to Scott Pilgrim... hell even Drew Barrymore and Cameron Diaz were kicking wire-assisted ass.
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post #20 of 35
11/26/10 at 9:07am
Rock needs to hook up with QT.
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post #21 of 35
11/26/10 at 9:30am
I agree wholeheartedly. Quentin will never be known as an "action director", but between Kill Bill and Death Proof, he's proven to be one of the best, for my money. And he (almost)always gets amazing performances from his actors.
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post #22 of 35
11/26/10 at 10:14am
The Rock gave Professional Wrestling a wider appeal, if that doesn't show the main has star quality nothing will. Seriously with the right film and director this man's stock would go through the roof.
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post #23 of 35
11/26/10 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenNoMore View Post
FUCK Jason Statham. We're talking about a diverse fanbase and likability. His movies don't appeal to a wide fanbase. Plus, he did a movie w/ Uwe Boll. He can fuck off.
Waitaminnit... I like Diesel and love Dwayne, but at least Statham never starred in something like THE GAME PLAN or THE PACIFIER (neither which were as good as KINDERGARTEN COP). No babysitting for Chev Chelios.

Yet.

Guys who hope to be in this group? Sam Worthington (not enough charisma) and Gerard Butler (loves the rom-com too much).
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post #24 of 35
11/26/10 at 11:00pm
I wonder if part of the problem is that Johnson and Diesel tried to market themselves as "the next Big Action Hero" while Statham just went and did it.

Diesel is especially blatant about it; "Pacifier" is his Kindergarten Cop", Riddick is his "Mad Max" or "Predator" (take your pick). He comes off as an Ersatz Schwarzenegger and I think the public picked up on that.
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post #25 of 35
11/26/10 at 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
Rock needs to hook up with QT.
And Wayne Kramer and Joe Carnahan.
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post #26 of 35
11/27/10 at 12:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
Waitaminnit... I like Diesel and love Dwayne, but at least Statham never starred in something like THE GAME PLAN or THE PACIFIER (neither which were as good as KINDERGARTEN COP). No babysitting for Chev Chelios.

Yet.
However, Chev Chelios gladly takes direction cues Dr. Uwe Boll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
Guys who hope to be in this group? Sam Worthington (not enough charisma) and Gerard Butler (loves the rom-com too much).
There is no hope for these two.
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post #27 of 35
11/27/10 at 12:30am


Not that I have a problem with Pitch Black or xXx.
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post #28 of 35
12/1/10 at 7:59pm
Vin has a few really great action roles to his name. The Rock has THE RUNDOWN which is fun, but ultimately not that special IMHO. I am still receptive to the idea of The Rock as action star, but his career choices are really turning me off for the most part and I'm beginning to think of him as a joke, which is sad. Vin feels threatening. The Rock? These days, not so much IMHO

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post #29 of 35
12/2/10 at 1:13pm
True, Johnson isnt threatening at all...

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post #30 of 35
12/2/10 at 7:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
True, Johnson isnt threatening at all...
That photo sums up the reason I said I was still receptive to him as an action star (that and his charm), but my point is that when I think of Rock these days, I think THE TOOTH FAIRY. When I think of Vin, I think of him stabbing someone with a teacup

PS That beard is not flattering for Mr Johnson
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post #31 of 35
12/4/10 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Savage View Post
The Rock gave Professional Wrestling a wider appeal, if that doesn't show the main has star quality nothing will. Seriously with the right film and director this man's stock would go through the roof.
Professional wrestling was already well on its way to doing its biggest numbers ever when he was still goofy third-generation do-gooder Rocky Maivia. He was one of the biggest names of the Attitude era but I don't think he ever reached Hogan level.

As for the movie career, he's got a good look and is a passable action star but he's never even treaded close to an iconic role. I can't think of one film he's appeared in that I absolutely loved but maybe it's a matter of personal taste.
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post #32 of 35
12/4/10 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenNoMore View Post
However, Chev Chelios gladly takes direction cues Dr. Uwe Boll.
Ben Kingsley was in a Uwe Boll movie. You gonna tell him to fuck off too? Let's not pass too much judgment for actors taking (ludicrously huge) paydays that no one saw.

And the fact of the matter is, Statham's made his share of crap action flicks, but he's also produced a lot of gems, and those all stand a little taller than the re-warmed helpings served up by Johnson and Disel. I'll go to bat for CRANK a thousand times before I get too lovey with THE RUNDOWN.
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post #33 of 35
12/4/10 at 8:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post
I'll go to bat for CRANK a thousand times before I get too lovey with THE RUNDOWN.
Yeah I have to say Crank is one of the few films of the past decade that I hold in the same regard as the action films of the 80s. They honestly just don't make them like they used to. I just finally watched Undisputed III on instant, and finally saw what all the hubbub was about. It was truly refreshing to watch fight scenes that were visceral and shot properly.
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post #34 of 35
12/5/10 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post
I'll go to bat for CRANK a thousand times before I get too lovey with THE RUNDOWN.
I know this comes down to personal taste and all, and I do love Crank, but I'll take Welcome To The Jungles "I don't use guns" building up to the third act 'Boom Shanka' payoff of Beck picking up two rifles over the Red Bull hyperactivity of Stathams adventure any day of the week personally.
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post #35 of 35
12/9/10 at 5:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post
Ben Kingsley was in a Uwe Boll movie. You gonna tell him to fuck off too?
Then so it is that I lost my faith in Mahatma Gandhi. I thought he was of a pure source.
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