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Enjoying Older Films - Page 5

post #201 of 226
12/6/10 at 8:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post
Sounds like a useful potential CHUD feature.
...or a monthly watch-a-long discussion thread.
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post #202 of 226
12/7/10 at 4:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post

I wonder if you could take a subgenre as gradual stepping stones back to older films. Take that shit to deeper levels like Inception. Pick, say, boxing. You watch a new one (The Fighter), and watch one from each decade, until you're at Wallace Beery's The Champ.
What's the best western of the 90s? I just finished watching the best of the 2000s (Jesse James again), and I want more westerns. I can work my back to the Dollars trilogy then The Searchers or something.
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post #203 of 226
12/7/10 at 4:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMantis View Post
What's the best western of the 90s? I just finished watching the best of the 2000s (Jesse James again), and I want more westerns. I can work my back to the Dollars trilogy then The Searchers or something.
Of the 90s?

Unforgiven

Tombstone

Dead Man
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post #204 of 226
12/7/10 at 4:34am
90s- Unforgiven
80s- I'm not aware of many great 80s westerns, so I'd say Pale Rider.
70s- The Outlaw Josey Wales, and I love McCabe and Mrs. Miller
60s- Once Upon a Time in the West, The Dollars Trilogy, The Wild Bunch
50s- The Searchers (Not just one of the best westerns, but one of the best American movies to ever be made)
40s- The Oxbow Incident, Treasure of the Sierra Madre
30s- Stagecoach

I think you have a good string here leading back to early films. If you follow the strand of Eastwood through Unforgiven to Pale Rider to The Outlaw Josey Wales to the Dollars Trilogy, you'll notice a very interesting evolution of the Western protagonist. Pair that with the evolution of Henry Fonda from The Oxbow Incident to Once Upon a Time in the West, and the stereotyped protagonists of Stagecoach through The Searchers and I think you'll find some interesting things in some Great films.
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post #205 of 226
12/7/10 at 4:41am
80s- Lonesome Dove. Best western of the 80s, hands down. Silverado's good too.

Also worth investigating is The Grey Fox starring Richard Farnsworth. lt's crazy hard to find but it's the perfect companion piece to Dominik's Jesse James.
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post #206 of 226
12/7/10 at 5:14am
I'd go with Silverado for the 80's. Including Lonesome Dove seems like dirty pool; a TV mini-series is not a movie.

As for older westerns, choosing just one or two per decade becomes impossible prior to 1970. From the forties through the sixties, westerns were one of the most populous genres out there, and quite often, some of a given year's best films were westerns. I've been making a concerted effort to enhance my education in the genre, and I've begun to realize that there's simply no chance that I'll ever see all the great ones. They're without end.

For instance, to even think of going through the fifties without dipping into the Anthony Mann/Jimmy Stewart series is unthinkable. To go through the sixties without seeing the Magnificent Seven is ridiculous. The seventies without Little Big Man? Ludicrous.
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post #207 of 226
12/7/10 at 5:16am
Thread Starter 
Let's do the crime/mafia genre next.
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post #208 of 226
12/7/10 at 10:36am
You could probably ride Scorsese back a couple (Departed, Goodfellas), hop to maybe Scarface for the 80s, Godfather/Godfather Part II for the 70s, Point Blank for 60s, Phenix City Story or On the Waterfront for 50s, Rath takes over for the 40s, Scarface again for the 30s (but maybe The Public Enemy would be a better fit).
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post #209 of 226
12/7/10 at 10:53am
Thing is, saying "crime/mafia" is a little like saying "horror/slasher." All mafia movies are crime movies, but not all crime movies are mafia movies. Hell, I'd consider Glengarry Glen Ross a great crime movie.
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post #210 of 226
12/7/10 at 11:43am
And you really can't do Unforgiven without doing the early Westerns first. It's a good movie on it's own but its brilliance is as a deconstruction of the Western film. For that you need to understand the films that came before.
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post #211 of 226
12/7/10 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
And you really can't do Unforgiven without doing the early Westerns first. It's a good movie on it's own but its brilliance is as a deconstruction of the Western film. For that you need to understand the films that came before.
But that would be the point of this backwards baptism. You watch a movie, like it, then gradually go back in time to learn all the films that came before it, informing and enhancing your appreciation of the newer film, and giving a newfound appreciation of the older films.

Another great way to discover backward is through Tarantino's films. Watch Inglourious Basterds and you can spend maybe a month tracking down and watching all the films that informed it.
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post #212 of 226
12/7/10 at 8:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
You could probably ride Scorsese back a couple (Departed, Goodfellas), hop to maybe Scarface for the 80s, Godfather/Godfather Part II for the 70s, Point Blank for 60s, Phenix City Story or On the Waterfront for 50s, Rath takes over for the 40s, Scarface again for the 30s (but maybe The Public Enemy would be a better fit).
Little Caesar would have to be squeezed in there somewhere surely.
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post #213 of 226
12/7/10 at 8:22pm
And Angels with Dirty Faces.
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post #214 of 226
12/7/10 at 8:51pm
But again, if it's about trying to get someone who doesn't like older films into older films, I don't get the force feed. Which of those films would make him WANT to see the rest? I don't have the answer, just restating the point of the exercise.
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post #215 of 226
12/7/10 at 8:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanW View Post
And Angels with Dirty Faces.
I don't see what bukkake porn has to do with enjoying older movies.
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post #216 of 226
12/8/10 at 5:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
One thing about older movies is that someone's done all that work for you - romantic comedy might rival horror for a genre where you have to sift through a lot of dreck to find anything substantial. Time is a nice filter.
I fully agree, this is how I've always viewed older films compared to newer ones. The older a film is that's still kicking around the more likely it is to be great, who wants to save the original print of the 1930's equivalent of White Chicks?
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post #217 of 226
12/8/10 at 5:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolf Girl View Post
who wants to save the original print of the 1930's equivalent of White Chicks?
Actually, the low-budget flavor-of-the-month stuff is of great interest to historians and film preservationists. Check out the Mexican Spitfire comedies next time they pop up on TCM.
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post #218 of 226
12/8/10 at 9:33am
I would actually see the shit out of the 1930's equivalent of White Chicks. If only because Michael Weldon's Psychotronic books are loaded with stuff like that.

Truism: There's no bad movie like an old bad movie. I would watch something by Dwain Esper or Oscar Micheaux before anything by Shawn Levy or Friedberg/Seltzer any day.
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post #219 of 226
12/8/10 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
But that would be the point of this backwards baptism. You watch a movie, like it, then gradually go back in time to learn all the films that came before it, informing and enhancing your appreciation of the newer film, and giving a newfound appreciation of the older films.
That's a good point. It's difficult for me to imagine seeing Unforgiven without having the context of the movies that came before it. I was raised on Westerns* so I have no idea how well it would work for Mantis on its own. Does it make that leap from good to great? Or will that only happen after he watches the ones that came before it?

*It's why Firefly worked so well for me. Whedon knows his tropes and plays with/on them so damn well.
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post #220 of 226
12/8/10 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post
I would actually see the shit out of the 1930's equivalent of White Chicks. If only because Michael Weldon's Psychotronic books are loaded with stuff like that.

Truism: There's no bad movie like an old bad movie. I would watch something by Dwain Esper or Oscar Micheaux before anything by Shawn Levy or Friedberg/Seltzer any day.
Definitely. That's most of CHUD. I was just explaining how someone "put off" by older films can look at the situation and see that the cream has already risen.
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post #221 of 226
12/8/10 at 1:52pm
Oh, sure. Not refuting you (I would never refute The Phil), just riffing on the "White Chicks of the '30s" concept.

I dunno if appreciating bad old psychotronic films is something someone can work up to, or something you're just born with, like midichlorians.
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post #222 of 226
12/8/10 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post
Oh, sure. Not refuting you (I would never refute The Phil), just riffing on the "White Chicks of the '30s" concept.

I dunno if appreciating bad old psychotronic films is something someone can work up to, or something you're just born with, like midichlorians.
Shit, maybe the dreck is the elusive entry point. Maybe TheMantis should watch Maniac.
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post #223 of 226
12/8/10 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post
I dunno if appreciating bad old psychotronic films is something someone can work up to, or something you're just born with, like midichlorians.
Again, I think it's something best achieved through casual, undirected immersion. Difficult now, with the decline of the "late show".
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post #224 of 226
12/8/10 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Maybe TheMantis should watch Maniac.
Everyone should watch Maniac.

DARTS OF FIRE IN MY BRAIN! STABBING ME! I CAN'T STAND IT! I WON'T!
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post #225 of 226
12/10/10 at 3:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post
Everyone should watch Maniac.

DARTS OF FIRE IN MY BRAIN! STABBING ME! I CAN'T STAND IT! I WON'T!
Bahahaha, that movie is amazing! I blind bought it for 5 bucks on a whim and was not expecting the weirdness and hilarity I got. Probably the best blind buy I've ever made.
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post #226 of 226
12/10/10 at 5:23am
I just watched the restored Metropolis. Anybody who tells me they couldn't get into it is getting punched in the spine.
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