Does bandwagons piss you off?

I get that way about music sometimes, but I don't think it that way about Raimi and Jackson. I just think about how great it is for them to be successful and popular.

With music, I like to find obscure bands and tell people how great they are. Then we're in the same secret "fan club." But sometimes the rest of the world tries to get in the club, and it's not fun anymore. Once every idiot kid is screaming their praises and messaging MTV about how amazing they are, I start to lose interest.

I can kind of understand the sentiment, but frankly I'm too old for this stuff to piss me off. Most of those mall kids with their Evil Dead T-Shirts weren't even BORN when I was worshipping at the altar of Raimi.

It only really pisses me off in music. Like the fact whenever I go to my local rawk club, I can't fucking hear any Tenacious D song because there is always forty-five annoying teenagers singing over it.

ohhh man, do i feel your fucking pain.

Geeesh, would you guys please relax ... So what if someone younger wants to attach themselves to a certain film or band ??? ... Would it make you feel better if they just carried a SCREAM lunchbox, so you could feel all superior ??? ...

Fact is, alot of the popular new films suck, you unfortunately, you're not the only ones who think so ... Why can't someone enjoy THE EVIL DEAD, even if they weren't born when it was made ???
All of a sudden I can't love NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD or PSYCHO because they were made before I was born ???

I always found it kinda bizarre when people become possessive of unknown bands and films ... I mean, if you like something just because NO ONE ELSE does, that's just as childish and foolish as liking it b/c it's popular: you're basing your likes/dislikes on other people's opinions ..... ANY band that YOU'VE heard of has sold out ... That's why recordings are made, and bands leave their basements - for other people to hear .. And by "other people" you gotta realize that doesn't mean JUST you ... you're just one of those people, no matter how much you don't want to be .... and I have no problem w/ that, that is what music is all about .... In essence, the ANTI NOWHERE LEAGUE is no different than ABBA, other than the fact that ABBA could write and actually sing ...

Sorry, no offense, but I think the issue here has more to do YOUR ages, not the kids' in the mall ... Hey, I'm proud to say that I saw ZOMBIE and PHANTASM in the theater ..... and if in 1979 someone would have blown me off just because they didn't think I deserved to enjoy PSYCHO, well, that's kinda ridiculous ....

Damn straight. We should be happy that guys like Raimi and Jackson have become successful and popular on their own terms. Elitism sucks a thousand times more than any imagined "bandwagon".

If it pisses you off that much then just find something new and obscure that only you like and enjoy that - until someone else likes it too and "spoils" it.

I stradle the fence in that I ultimately agree with mssrs "smell" & "elmie" but I do think the point's got lightly misconstrued.

It's not that anyone begrudges Raimi and Jackson their plaudits - godammit have they've earned those and how.

It's just, to me, the slightly offputting mugging that the maninstream press now extend toward them that grates. As if E! or its ilk have always been fans of their work and treasutred them as amazing filmmakers, even though they would have balked before at even considering thinking of they're funny little genre films as being anything approaching artistically well-endowed endeavours.

I think that's a point buried in here somewhere.

But that happens in any artform where success and quality is not judged by opinion but by trend and sheep-mentality.

I think I'm more pissed off by general Elitism. I mean, I love introducing everything from Le Pacte Des Loups to Army of Darkness to everyone I can. But I'm talking about people like the Criterion group, where you have a bunch of souls who way intellectually about Godard or the latest Greenaway flick, but turn their noses up at anything approaching commercial or mainstream. That's no way a reflection on Criterion, because I love most of the films they release, it's just a lot of them seem to be embraced by that annoying group. But then again, it happens the other way too.

Mind you I'm sure that beret-wearing fraternity were a mite shocked when they're Criterion blind subscription shoved Armageddon and The Rock through their lavender scented mail boxes. Eh ?

Gross generalisations permitting of course.

Hey strax, when do ya think HOT TOPIC will get the new CRUISIN' lunchboxes in ???

When they do - I'm sooooo there. Yellow handkerchief, left pocket, right ? At least that's what I hear Fred Durst is sporting nowadays...

...allegedly.

I think there are two conversations going on here (three if you count the screaming banshee who lives in my head).

One is the notion that long-term fans of guys like Raimi and Jackson resent the idea of "new people" acting like "they've always been into them". This is horseshit, pure and simple. I'm glad that people who weren't even born when Evil Dead came out are being turned on to it's many charms. That's how a genre grows and survives. I wasn't around when Karloff and Lugosi made their movies, but when I discovered them, loved them and wanted to learn everything about them that was a good thing. Ditto when today's kids discover Halloween, Dawn of the Dead or Texas Chainsaw Massacre. We should encourage them, not sneer at them.

The second group is the mainstream critics and the prententious film snobs who have only now pricked up their ears and paid attention to our low-budget chums, and are hurriedly reading up on them so they can join in the dinner party conversations. These people are dickheads anyway, and there's nothing you can do about it. They're probably watching Meet The Feebles now and stroking their chins, pondering how they can intellectualise it as a paradigm of modern transgressive cinema, subverting the facade of "puppetry" as a pastiche of Western decadence.

Nah, I expect they're squatting on futon thinking "Heavens to Betsy, a fly scoffing on a big poo"

Art schmart, I guess Jackson's the one laughing hardest right about now. Y'know, lying on his bed of gold coins....

Dan's right. The only emotion that should be going on is outright celebration. They let the geeks into the money factory ! Wooo hooo. Go wild guys !

Hey has anybody heard of this movie, i just saw it yesterday i think its called..."Texas Chainshaw" I don't remember the rest. It was cool...i think. I mean haven't seen any lunchboxes though, so i'm not sure.



Really though, I'm 19. I love horror movies, most of them i have seen when i was younger. i was an only child, and i wasnt very outgoing with the other kids. So i would just sit at home and watch scary movies. So i've seen a tons of movies. But now a days i can go back and watch these movies, and actually appreciate them.

Kids that jump on the Bandwagon do bother me. I mean why can't people make up their own minds and like something cause they like it. Not because MTV or KROCK tell them too. You should see the kids over here that praise Slipknot, like they are the best band ever made. They are ok, but i mean come on, these guys are nothing Compared to Pantera, Slayer and Metallica (old school Metallica only). And don't get me started on the damn Limp Bizkit fans!

I can't be pissed either. But I'm disappointed that liking these movies now can put someone on The Cool Train. When I was in high school, talking up these films put me on The Weirdo Dinghy. I still remember my friends' puzzled expressions over my excitement for the upcoming release of "that stupid-looking Army of Darkness movie".

When I retire and open my bar, I'm going to call it "The Weirdo Dinghy"...Brilliant.

I agree with Whitehead.

For me, "Bandwagon" is actually one of my favorite latter-day Fred Astaire films and I hate that someone would come in here and start bad-mouthing it the very fucking DAY after its co-creator, screenwriter Adolph Green, passed away. Though it was two years after Vincente Minnelli's true masterpiece, "An American in Paris," after Astaire's "second act" began with 1948's "Easter Parade," the one movie that seemed to be a little more than just a vehicle for him was "Bandwagon."

Yes, yes, the arguments will FLY IN saying that "Funny Face," "Daddy Long Lesgs" and "Silk Stockings" were equally great, but let's look at the plot and how it fits Astaire.

A snobbish, washed-up has-been named Tony Hunter (Astaire) who was a big movie star as a dancer has gotten booted out of Hollywood, so he goes to Broadway to do a show. The show is totally pretentious beyond belief and though Tony couldn't care less at first, the young ballerina brought in to star opposite him, Gabrielle Gerard (Cyd Charisse in her finest role, easy), shows him the way back to who he once was - a man in love with dance (though they hate each other at first).

Tony and Gabrielle have several fiery scenes, but in the end, it's their single-minded devotion to dance and the artistic feeling they get from this endeavor that really brings them together.

So no, "Bandwagon" does not piss me off, but is one of my favorite films. Astaire is still masterful in it - showing off moves he hadn't ever used on film before and never used again - and as Adolph Green (and his partner, Betty Comden) never did such a great piece again (I'm no fan of "It's Always Fair Weather" - sorry), we should honor this film - particularly numbers like "That's Entertainment," "A Shine on Your Shoes," "Dancing in the Dark," the actual number of "You and the Night and the Music" and especially, "I Love Louisa."

It's sad to think that this really was probably the only real showcase ever for the music of Arthur Schwartz and Howard Dietz, but when it's something this good (three Oscar nominations including Best Costume Design for Mary Ann Nyberg, Best Score for Adolph Deutsch and Best Screenplay for Betty Comden and Adolph Green), why not?

I'm probably one of the oldest people on the boards (age wise) and I'm fine with a new batch of fans for the classics. If a film is good, it's good. It deserves fans of all ages!

Yes but it deserves genuine fans. Not fly-by-nighters just stepped off the Cool Train.

I'll take the Weirdo Dinghy thanks.

Uhm..I wonder what people thought of me when I walked into Suncoast and my mom offered to buy me The Texas Chainsaw Massacre poster...damn I love my mom, she's great! Oh and by the way, the poster fits nicely on my wall, hehehe. Actually to put all joking aside, even though it wasn't a joke, I can understand where everyone is coming from, if someone was to wear a shirt of a movie or a band that they knew nothing about they would be considered a poser or someone just trying to fit in. Yep I did this several times years ago, especially with Korn, now I know why I never listened to their music because well, it wasn’t for me. Basically we live in a society were everyone wants to be accepted and to be accepted you sometimes go to different lengths. I could understand why this would upset someone especially a very intelligent horror buff, seeing youths wearing and caring things that you hold a passion for who have no clue what it’s about and really don’t want to know, is somewhat insulting. But I don’t see why we should get mad, hey I’m not very intelligent when it comes to horror, in fact I am learning new things everyday, and to even consider myself an average fan would probably be ludicrous in some horror buff’s eyes. I guess what I’m trying to say is, this isn’t very much different from someone who is recently introduced to horror. If someone has never seen the evil dead and he or she asked you about it, you wouldn’t want to shrug him or her off and cast him or her away because your knowledge far exceeds his or hers. Horror should be enjoyed and shared no matter how it reaches a person, just as long as it reaches them. We can’t expect people to know about Sam Raimi if we just ignore them. Because someone might be new to horror and wasn’t born into it doesn’t make them any less of a fan then you.

Yowza, i'm to late with this reply.

Ah, thought about it - but who could have pulled off such an elegant coup like our own SJR. An impassioned rant, sir. Only Singin In The Rain trumps it (just) while Meet Me In St Louis sniffs its rear...

Adolph Green died ? Sad. On The Town, Auntie Mame, the Bells Are Rigning and Singin In The Rain -- not a bad track record really is it ?

And a nice diversion fomr the topic too.

Actually, SJR has woefully misread the title of this thread. It's not "Does bandwagon piss you off?" but "Does bandwagons piss you off?".

And as any fool know, "Bandwagons" was James Cameron's gung-ho sequel to the Astaire original.

Donald O'Connor leads a crack troop of tap dancers on a rescue mission to a seemingly deserted stage school only to be set upon by a ravaging horde of Baby Jane's

Yeah, that stuff used to piss me off, when I was like 16. Things just seem a little more special when it's just you and a few others that know about them. But it's stupid. Be happy that people love Evil Dead. Rejoice.

Personally, while those who pretend they were always into something once it gets cool bug the hell out of me, I'm thrilled to see Peter Jackson and Sam Raimi getting mainstream success. None of that annoyance can hold a candle to the sheer evil joy of seeing "Meet the Feebles -- From the Oscar-Nominated Director of 'Lord of the Rings'" on a DVD case.

But Meet The Feebles still sucks...

Well, seeing Dead-Alive "when it first came out on VHS" may make you a Johnny-come-lately when it comes to be a "true" Jackson fan for those of us in the States who caught Bad Taste on bootleg in '89/'90. But that would be an unfair, elitist attitude.

The point is, everyone has to play "catch up" as a new fan. There's always eras before us that we didn't experience first hand and films and directors that we can't say we were the first to get hip to.

We always need "fresh blood" - new generations of fans - to get interested in the genre and we were all in that position at one time or another.

I am thrilled that the younger generation is getting into the movies that I love. This means that these movies will last forever. There will always be a new audience to view them. I can only imagine that fifty years from now a whole new group of people will be standing in line to see "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" or "Evil Dead" at a midnight showing. This thought puts a smile on my face. I love horror movies. It does my heart good to see that the movies that I love will not be forgotten.

<img src="http://cache.gettyimages.com/thumb/10173154.jpg?x=x&a=10173154&b=TIB&t=1" alt="" />
Hey you guys! HOT TOPIC has a new "REAL KILLERS" T-Shirt!

yeah, it's the best movie, have you seen it?

Don't come to NYU, then.

There's Scosese and then there's the bunch Charles is talking about. No one doubts the ferocity of the NYU filmic passion (to be applauded absolutely) but I suspect there'd be an almighty kicking party had you had to deal with the dolts that attended my film degree course. The ones that wished so badly they were on the NYU course that it bled obsiqueousness through their rectums (recti?) in the form of words...

Those guys ? Oh yes, they're the trouble.

For the record, I'm annoying, pretentious, a Criterion collector, would love to have gone to NYU (use it, don't abuse it Rath wink ) but [I]still[/I} hate the elitism prevelant at the focus of the discussion. I just don't know which fistional bandwagon to jump on: Hot Topic's or the one with the berets...

If a few of these kids learn to love the classics by first finding them as a part of a trend, then so be it. Who knows, that kid with the lunchbox may be so inspired as to become the next great horror director. Will I begrudge them finding out about ED2, or Halloween from Hot Topic when that happens...no, I won't. I'll happily munch my popcorn and watch the flick and be happy that the genre lives on. But that's just me...

I guess it's the "posers" that annoy you and not the "bandwagoneers" (is that even a word?).

Life is too short; and by concerning yourself about others' interests on your favorite horror films would deny you of finding more time to enjoy films in general. They're not worthy of your needless aggravation. That's all I's gots to say.

So is this the part where we all retire to the study for a brandy?

I have started to not let this whole "bandwagon" thing bother me, but I don't like it when all of a sudden I'm thrown on a bandwagon and pigeonholed just because my favorite movies/bands have become popular. That pisses me off

It also pisses me off when all of a sudden everyone's an expert on movies that I set my life by (ie. the ED films). I was told that everyone in my residence were watching AOD in the main room and I should join it. So I did. When it was done, I had to sit through some "expert" informing some of the other viewers about the intentions of the film. This is what he said:

"When they made Evil Dead and Evil Dead 2, they tried to make them scary, but they just turned out funny. They started making Army of Darkness and realized that it wasn't going to be scary half way through, so they just started making it funny."

WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? I've never heard this myth before. And this was coming from a fellow film student! Doesn't he know that films arn't filmed in continuity? You can't just change your mind in the middle, because the ending was probably already shot.

Some kids.

Regardless, if it wasn't for bandwagons, I probably wouldn't be able to find an ED t-shirt anywhere, now they're everywhere. So, I can buy and ED t-shirt, wear it, and be happy.

May I stroke your ego? Made me laugh meself silly you did.

But to add to the conversation;

Power-word: "BLAH!" (i.e. I agree.)

New fans make me happy. Plus now I can find all the bumper stickers I want without a hassle.

As per SJR's post: when I turned 21, I put the Beer song from The Bandwagon on my Answering Machine. Dilletante, yet still geeky.

As per the rest: There are certain films that become passwords. I belive it was Jerry Harrison who once said of the Talking Heads that what he liked about the band was that anyone who would be into them would more than likely be his kind of people.

And there are certain things in this world that define a type. I don't know if I want to have friends who can't appreciate Miyazaki, or this site. But if for some reason Hayao directed a film that Disney actually gave a decent release to, and America liked it, then a sort of buzz connection between the like minded would be destroyed. The thing about films like Story of Ricki and Meet the Feebles is that if you meet people who "get them" then it's like you're meeting a long lost friend. There are many films that oculd be used for this pass, but when someone like Sam Raimi goes mainstream, it's harder to say Evil Dead 2 is that buzz film. Which is why saying stuff like "I saw Army of Darkness/Reseveroir Dogs/Battle Royale in the theater" becomes currency.

I guess what I'm saying is when snot nosed kids start chatting about how cool Dead Alive is, or ________ that was once one of those films you could count on, I am a bit disapointed, but let it go now. Most people have bad taste anyway, so what does it take away if sometimes they accidentally have good taste.

Cigar with our brandy, sir ? What a fabulous idea...

Do bandwagonners piss you off? No.

Do Posers piss you off? Yes.

I'm a man of many worlds.

Cheers all!

At least someone's with on this one. Let me grab my smoking jacket...