TRON LEGACY Post Release Discussion

Quorra's a Real Doll come to life. That's the only explanation.

Long post coming.

I know the original TRON has flaws out the wazoo, but there was a rule system set up in that universe that actually made a kind of sense. The Programs were direct avatars to the Users, the idea of digitization made sense in that film (they actually tried to explain it a bit with the orange), and the computer terms they used were somewhat a correlation to what they are in reality. The idea that Tron had to get to the I/O Tower to get his viral programming that would disable the MCP made sense. The "religious" aspects of the story opened up interesting ideas, even if they were presented in a simplistic, fantastical manner. And, in the end, TRON is a kids' movie, but there's some pretty heady stuff in there for a kids' movie. And no, this isn't nostalgia - although I admit that's there - because it hasn't been that long since I've seen it last and the people who created the story to TRON actually did try to make some kind correlative story to how computers work.

That's why the new one pisses me off so, so much, because all of that is gone in this new film. We don't even know where the Programs in this film come from. It's a closed system and we're never told once how these Programs wound up there, except for the ISOs, which I'll get to in a minute. What the fuck is Castor anyway? I joked to Devin that maybe he was a cocktail mixer app on the iPhone before he showed up on the Grid, but there's not one explanation on how these Programs, which have nothing to do with the operations of the system, showed up.

Why are there even Games anyway? In the original TRON they made sense - these Programs were thrown into the Games and the Games in the Grid were actually games being played by Users in the outside world. But who's playing these Games in this new system? Are these Programs playing themselves? "The only way to win is not to play," indeed - and it's hilarious to me that the movie takes a line from WARGAMES.

The ISOs. Best I could figure out was that these were Programs that came into existance without User creation. Basically, the idea was that the ISOs evolved, and that no Users made them. In essence, they made themselves. Now, as a concept, I thought that was a cool addition to the TRONiverse, but they never once go anywhere with it. Not once. It's been suggested that they are a form of AI that could eventually solve mankind's problems, but again it's never shown how that is.

I'm not going to get into the acting here, really, because I thought everyone was serviceable. I couldn't get over the hurdle of the story, which made no sense to me considering the rules that were set up in the original film.

AND HOW DO THEY FUCKING EAT?

/bashes head against keyboard

That's something interesting. Bringing back the religious aspect of the Users, what happens to that belief when it's shown that programs can come into existance by themselves? And what becomes their purpose if the Users are unneccessary/don't exist? Religious war?

I kinda want to see this movie now.

Whatever cool shit you come up with in your head based on that concept while in the car, on the way to the theater is going to be better than what bounces into your eyes when you get there.

Especially regarding the laser sequence when Sam enters the computer world. This movie got that fucked. Sequence initiated, digital dissolve aaand BAM! Welcome to mirror-land.

My #1 issue leaving the movie after the first watch is one scene that stands out. The creation of CLU where we have two face-mapped animations doing nothing and saying even less. Also, the hit on the head when the order doesn't compute was a groaner. I liked TRON pre-Rinzler. That looked good.

As a Tron fan, this movie was great. The audience I was with was engaged the entire time.

Computer systems have Programs.

Keeping Programs content and non-rebelling (Bread and Circuses), weeding out undesirables (remember the program going notthegamesnotthegamesnotthegames?), there was plenty of reason to have them be a source of entertainment for Programs.

Besides, it's not as if the guy programming the system was a game designerohshit

I took the whole "ISOs solving mankind's problems" thing was Flynn just really excited about the fact that ISOs exist, rather than anything truely world-changing.

Emergent Intelligence is one of the cornerstone theories of AI development. You create a system through which AI evolves by itself. This movies version of The Grid seems to be playing that idea out.

I thought it was what was on Flynn's disc, basically the the secrets of the Tron world, that was on the storage device. I wasn't at all shocked to see Quorra in the real world.

Also, Tron has never made sense, so stop trying to make it make sense now. Programs don't play games, games ARE programs. The whole concept is fucked. But it's fun.

She's "real" in our world. No evidence that she's actually flesh and blood though. Depends on whether the digitizer "translates" grid-flesh to meat-flesh (Sam still bleeds in the grid). Or she's some kind of new lifeform altogether.

I got the impression that the thumbdrive thing around Sam's neck was the tech-equivalent of the mainframe in the room. They were teasing the idea it might be Quorra, but then made the conceptual statement that no, she's real.

Don't try to place TRON's grid within Cyberpunk's concept of Cyberspace. This movie makes it clear that these are totally different systems. It's not The Matrix either. The Grid is a fully synthetic "reality". A teched-up version of a magic kingdom.

Did anyone else think the score too often sounded like BATMAN BEGINS Lite?

I think that's where Flynn's whole (paraphrasing) "It's my fault, I made him" thing comes into play.

I think that flash card contained the Kevin Flynn disc too. The info about The Grid and also Kevin Flynn's personal data, i.e. his memories and physiological structure seemed to be the contents of the disc and I assume it transferred in the download after the return to reality.

In theory it could be used to make another CLU. Sam could always just wear it around his neck for the rest of his life and point to it while saying, "This is my dad. I own a company!" The moment on top of ENCOM Tower where he looks down and says "Hey Dad." was awkward to say the least.

So is it worth seeing just for the f/x and 3D alone, or no?

No.

Fuck

So, I take it this is another Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow? That is, they managed to cut an awesome trailer for a movie that will lead you to pray to the Almighty for death during a viewing?

It's just not engaging. There's no sense of danger or immediacy and the intensity is overshadowed by a lack of good storytelling. It like Sky Captain is a fucking mess with a few interesting parts. As a whole it's bunk.

Had a surprisingly crappy experience with this at the Arclight last night. The 3D glasses made things way too dark, and the theater was way too warm. That, combined with the movie itself, had half the people my group nodding off partway through. Despite this, nobody felt they'd missed anything important.

My question is: which action scene featuring a live DJ scoring the fight from this year is better, this or Iron Man 2?

I tried thinking about that enough to give you an actual answer, but then I accidentally stabbed myself in the dick with a ballpoint pen.

Review coming momentarily.

yes.

Just got back from checking it out. What a visually stunning pile of garbage.

The first thing that struck me too was the whole "Wait, what!? Quorra, the computer programme, is flesh-and-blood in the real world? I sure as hell hope Jules Verne wrote something about periods and menstruation, otherwise she's in for one hell of a shock".

And since Clu was flying a giant goddamn spaceship into the portal, does that mean the spaceship would've just materialized into that tiny basement?

Also, Flynn probably banged Quorra the 20 years he hung out with her, right? (Just sayin').

The movie felt a lot longer than just 2 hours....made Deathly Hallows Part 1 feel like a sprint. Didn't help that the opening sequence was riddled with plot holes and action-movie cliches (the functional equivalent of Microsoft has ONE out-of-shape guard on property? Flynn Jr. prepares for every contingency, then chooses as his escape route BASEjumping into a downtown city?).

Enjoyed both Jeff Bridges' performances, and the albino Merovengian-meets-Chris-Tucker-from-5th-Element guy, even tho both his "twists" were telegraphed from a mile away. But as Dre alluded to in his column, the script just wasn't there.

Tron: Legacy is the story of a devoted father who spends 20 years cultivating the perfect piece of subservient and innocent ass. He eventually sacrifices himself to megabytes so his son can make open port connections with the aforementioned ass in the real world.

Review: http://chud.com/articles/articles/26...AKE/Page1.html

I'm not sure this brought out the best in me.

This is probably the longest review I've done here, and yet I kind of threw up my hands about halfway through describing the first act.

For the TL: DR crowd:

Tear it to shreds, Renn! I thoroughly enjoyed reading that.

a couple of typos aside, that was a fantastic review, Renn.

Tron Legacy is...All kinds of Awesome! I do not care if the critics do not like it. Tron Legacy is definitely worth seeing. Tron Legacy, is definitely worth a trip to a theater with an...Imax screen. No other film in theaters this month will even approach the...greatness of Tron Legacy. I hope there is a sequel as well.

Disagree on Sheen. I thought he was far and away the most entertaining part of the film. Yeah, he was over the top and down the other side, but his character had ten times the energy and charisma of any of the others. Frankly, I'd have far preferred him as the main baddie over Phantom Dudeness.

I don't mean this in any sort of "I TOLD YOU SO" spirit, but anyone could've won good money on CHUD disliking this movie.

I liked 2 things from that sequence. DAFT PUNK and the arm cut. Just the nod Thomas Bangalter gives was more effective than any other ham fisted blocking used in the End of Line Club. Fuck CASTOR and his Laser Cane. [slang]

ZUSE was a bad choice.

At the risk of sounding defensive or whatever, no one in that IMAX theater had their legs spread wider for this movie than I did. My expectation were in the ground after the early buzz and some of the released scenes, but my goodwill couldn't have been higher. I can't think of a more favorable attitude for an audience member to have than high hopes with no hype.

Without even digging deep...

[salt in the wound] And then there was also the labeling of anyone who wasn't on board with the film "boring."[/salt in the wound]

All joking aside, good review; probably one of the most passionately disappointing reviews I've read in a while. While I was never convinced this project was anything more than a nostalgia cash-in, I was holding out that I'd be wrong and it would turn out worthwhile.

While the film is a disappointment riddled with problems, one highlight is that ARG, or Viral Marketing, has never been more interactive for the audience. 42 Entertainment really advanced the way we prepare for movies. Those involved in the viral were given freebies that would otherwise have been unobtainable. It was cool.

Another silver lining in the gray is Olivia Wilde (goofy vacant coma stare aside - Note: She's no Patrick.) who really is "the most beautiful thing to look at, in a film filled with +$100 million effects." I do think however that she could very well befall the same fate as Milla Jovovich and get subjected to a career of mediocre roles in crappy science-fantasy dreck.

It's beautiful to look at, the music is one of the best scores in recent memory, but this movie is hollow, empty, and lifeless. Hedlund is AWFUL. A charisma black hole with the likeability of AIDS. Every other line out of his mouth is a shitty one-liner. No way in hell can I buy that he gets dropped into this world and can fight toe-to-toe with the most lethal programs around. Bridges is indeed playing The Dude, and Wilde is straining to make something out of nothing. The greatest slight against this film is that there is no urgency to accomplish the goal. We're told they have eight hours to get to the portal, but there is no sense of urgency to get there at all. We see them sitting on that train thing, chilling out, chatting leisurely without a care. They don't even have the sense to act afraid during fight scenes. It just rings hollow. There's never any real fear, impatience, anything that sells to me that time is running out. The ticking clock is used to the point of parody now, but this film needed something like that to get the audience involved in this quest. Maybe show the portal light dimming as time draws near. As it is, you sit and watch a bunch of cool-looking shit that would have been even cooler had we been invested in these people. The father-son dynamic is barely existent, and their reunion, which could have and should been a big moment, comes across as horribly awkward.

And for the folks who bitched and cried when people complained about Clu looking fake? Guess what? He looks fake as fuck here, and no amount of dark lighting can hide it in that 1989 prologue scene. I saw zero improvement between that trailer footage and what I saw tonight.

My take (for the point-eight percent who care)

Old-fashioned blockbuster. Good or bad thing, but for me it was fine. Yes, there were problems, and CLU's plan makes no sense in the grand scheme of it, but it didn't matter to me. I never expected the next, great film from this puppy and that's what they gave me: an entertaining time filled with some cool shots and a serviceable story. I understand the camp that's upset that the story is muddled as the advertising had us believing otherwise, but I felt the film never tried to live up to those expectations.

That said, Kosinski has a LONG way to go as a director, even if he can frame action well (though, that's more of the work of Claudio Miranda than anything.)

I'll echo the praise for Daft Punk's score, and I'll even give credit where it's due to Darren Gilford's PD (although I wanted a little more out of The End of Line Club.)

Overall, I know there's problems, but all told, I don't care. I enjoyed it, and that's enough for me. I really, really liked it, but won't say I loved it. 'Dre said it best: it's the perfect sequel to TRON.

If by old fashioned you mean 1999, then yes, I would agree.

Actually, ironically, I do. Perhaps old-school is a better term. It just reminded me of 80s and 90s blockbusters that would throw anything just to move the story.

True, there's a certain quality we should expect, but every once in a while it's not a bad thing.

From Renn's review;

Um ... I think he released the source code, which would be an embarrassed and a bit of a problem for a closed source software company. You don't think MS was embarrassed and upset when a portion of the Win2K source leak out exposing their crappiness?

I don't see what's the problem with this part here, or how that means they don't understand "technology".

I agree. If Disney wants to throw in Cillian Murphy chewing scenery and being the best thing in a third film, well... okay. If not, oh well. I saw a Tron film in IMAX and enjoyed the hell out of it, and can't ask for anything more as a fan.

I'm really afraid that my crack about this being a $300m version of Serenity in an old thread may end up being true. We'll see how the numbers shake out.

Let's say this happens. They better have David Warner on lock. I'd like to see him treat Cillian Murphy even worse than Pete Postlethwaite did in INCEPTION.

ENCOM OS 13 could be to Dillinger Jr. as the MCP was to Dillinger/SARK.

Heheh. So this movie is the Secret Origin of Olivia Wilde?