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HAS KEVIN SMITH FOUND A HIGHER CALLING WITH RED STATE? - Page 3

post #101 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
Seems to me that Smith, Burton and Lucas are like the unholy trinity of directors whose very existence on this planet is enough to send butthurt internet geeks into a circle-jerk of infinitely-repeating bile; what they're actually doing or not doing barely seems to matter, just so long as everyone can have their nice reassuring 2 Minute Hate.
What about the fact that all three of those showed varying levels of promise before proceeding to become boring hacks churning out garbage on a regular basis? (Although Burton gets off easiest there, I suppose)

I mean up to a point, they kind of deserve the loathing they get because it's entirely about what they produce, not something like them cheating on their wives or some other superfluous bullshit.

And I think the level of bile they get hurled their direction has everything to do with the fact that, for a time, they scratched a very geeky itch so well only to blow it in spectacular fashion.
post #102 of 120
Place me into the "I thought the teaser was cool, creepy and effective" camp.
post #103 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
I never knew that. What films did Soderbergh do rewrites on?
Not sure.
post #104 of 120
Maybe you youngsters don't recall the last time on record in which Smith did a script polish. Yeah, he won't be keeping quiet about any such work.
post #105 of 120
I'm probably gonna get slayed for this, but I thought that JERSEY GIRL got hated on too much. It wasn't some amazing movie, but I thought it had enough moments to justify its existence (some nice dramatic work by Affleck/Carlin, some cinematography that was surprisingly good for a Kevin Smith movie, just off the top of my head). I always assumed that a big part of why it got shit on so bad was because it was released right in the middle of the whole GIGLI/Bennifer backlash. It's definitely not awesome or anything, but it's not the total fucking trainwreck it seems made out to be, either.

Hell, if nothing else, I'll go to bat for it because the audio commentary on the DVD is a riot.
post #106 of 120
double post
post #107 of 120
I'd never heard of that Overnight Delivery movie before reading that, so is it just me, or did Road Trip basically take the basic conceit of that movie wholesale?
post #108 of 120
I don't think anyone will slay you for that, Umami. Jersey Girl was just a mediocre movie (that I actually enjoy) that was released at a worst time (which you already addressed). Smith touted it as him finally 'growing up' and moving away from the dick and fart jokes... for what? A harmless comedy that seems like something anyone could have made? Some growth.

Also, if your film is shot by Vilmos Zsigmond, it'd better look good.

I haven't heard it in a long time, but I remember really enjoying that commentary between Smith and Affleck.
post #109 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeypants View Post
What about the fact that all three of those showed varying levels of promise before proceeding to become boring hacks churning out garbage on a regular basis? (Although Burton gets off easiest there, I suppose)

I mean up to a point, they kind of deserve the loathing they get because it's entirely about what they produce, not something like them cheating on their wives or some other superfluous bullshit.

And I think the level of bile they get hurled their direction has everything to do with the fact that, for a time, they scratched a very geeky itch so well only to blow it in spectacular fashion.
My point isn't that they're completely wrong, it's just that the points being made are boring and redundant and have been for a long time. Hating these people seems to have become some kind of geek comfort blanket, the exact same arguments wheeled out again and again every time one of their names comes up. And you basically admit there that all it really comes down to is that geeks feel betrayed by their old heroes and can't get over it, and want to punish them for it, which is a bit pathetic really.
post #110 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
And you basically admit there that all it really comes down to is that geeks feel betrayed by their old heroes and can't get over it, and want to punish them for it, which is a bit pathetic really.
Yeah, but up to a point (and that's where it gets fuzzy, obviously) some of it is warranted because the guy has a new trailer/film. But yeah, there does seem to be a strong contingent that hangs onto his every word (i.e. that "Smodcast" or whatever the hell horrible name he has for his rantings) even when he doesn't have any irons in the fire just to bash the guy.

If he pisses you off that bad, maybe don't pay attention to him. Although... he is a fascinating case-study in ego-maniacal/narcissistic/pathetic behavior himself, so I can kind of see why people stay tuned in to his particular brand of annoying lunacy.
post #111 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Maybe you youngsters don't recall the last time on record in which Smith did a script polish. Yeah, he won't be keeping quiet about any such work.
Holy shit. The guy REALLY has the thinnest skin around, doesn't he? If you're going to work on that scale, you really better realize that people are going to not like your work. It's just a fact of life, and the sooner you accept it and laugh at it, the better of you and your art will be.
post #112 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post
The fact of the matter is, there's actual hungry talent being passed up for letting this guy make another movie.
I don't think that's true. Whiny film students have been saying that forever. Couch surfing bong smokers too.

It's like the people who say that 300 mill spent on Movie X is taking food out of the mouths of starving Africans. It's not a zero-sum game.

Did you have anyone particular in mind? You understand that only a tiny minority of people have the rare mix of skill, talent, charisma, work ethic and audience appeal that successful/name filmmakers have, right? The stress alone would kill most people.
post #113 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nardo View Post
I don't think that's true.
It's especially not true in this case, since Smith self-financed the film.
post #114 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nardo View Post
Did you have anyone particular in mind? You understand that only a tiny minority of people have the rare mix of skill, talent, charisma, work ethic and audience appeal that successful/name filmmakers have, right? The stress alone would kill most people.
So Smith has that rare mix?
post #115 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
It's especially not true in this case, since Smith self-financed the film.
I'll concede that. My apologies.
post #116 of 120
You know, I harbor no particular ill will towards Smith. I don't delight in tearing him down. In fact, it's only a recent development that he's become someone I actively wish to see fail and leave the film business. Back in the day, I was something of a fan of his. I even lost a job in 9th grade because I left work for an hour to attend some of a screening of CLERKS. With each new movie he made in The Aughts though, I began to get the sense he was treading water. While I never saw Jersey Girl, CLERKS 2 was the first film of his I remember disliking with any kind of intensity. It felt like the worst kind of wheel spinning on his part. By the time ZACK AND MIRI rolled around? I was annoyed. I like Elisabeth Banks and Mr Rogen, and I feel like the basic concept of the film was sound. Instead, in Smith's hands, it was a jumbled mess of porn "star" cameos and unfunny gross out gags. Ugh. Even the memory of that movie makes me feel queasy, and I feel badly for Ms Banks that her star was tarnished by her participation

I feel like Smith has had more than his fair share of chances to grow as a film maker. I feel like he's proven himself to be incompetent, and yet he still gets work when other hungry young talent is still left to wander the wilderness. If I harbor any resentments for the man these days, that is what they are based in. I didn't see COP OUT, but I didn't need to see it to know it wasn't for me

This RED STATE TRAILER? There's hardly anything to discuss. It's slightly amateurish in it's sound design and appears to be just a bunch of shots cut together for no reason other than they don't look like normal Kevin Smith shots. They're not particularly scary. They're not that atmospheric. They look bland. The only standard by which they impress is the already low bar of Smith's work. There is no story, just some pretentious mumbo jumbo about god laid over unrelated shots of stuff from the film of cars clipping people, or people screaming in cages, ETC. Others have said it before but it bears repeating: if this wasn't a Smith movie, would any of us spend a single second of our lives posting about it? It looks like DT DVD level stuff, aside from the presence of Pop Racer and former POTUS John Goodman. I have no good will left for him, and no faith that RED STATE will turn out OK. I mean, it would be neat to be wrong about that, but I don't really see that happening

PS You may notice that up till this point, I have not addressed Smith's increasingly obnoxious public persona in this post. In an ideal world, his off screen antics should not color my appreciation of his work. Unfortunately he has become such a loud mouth in recent years that that is becoming nearly impossible. For someone who once watched his college lecture movie in 10th grade and cracked up till my sides hurt during the SM story, his fall from 'funny' has been startling
post #117 of 120
Smith is more talented at self promotion than making films. Now he's fucking up the self promotion part.
post #118 of 120
I had a post ready to go on him yesterday and today I read that he's not during any press for the movie and will be using the walled garden, ie; his podcast to talk and answer questions about it .

He's looking more and more like a broken man now. Ah, I guess making a couple bad movies in a row and losing a lot of your earned credibility will do that to you. Especially if you're as thin-skinned as he is.
post #119 of 120
Not so sure about this. While it certainly doesn't look like a Kevin Smith movie, none of the imagery here strikes me as particularly inspired or effective despite the creepiness of the premise alone. I've seen more inspiring camerawork from direct-to-DVD horror releases that you only watch for a few laughs. As a whole, it just doesn't seem to be cut together particularly well, even for a teaser.
post #120 of 120
When I watched it, I felt like I was watching a youtube video, except the sound was out of sync so everything seemed "off." Nothing really striking, it was just a bunch of clips with music. And normally I love that shit.
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