Star Wars: The Prequel Trilogy - Page 4

While I agree that Spielberg is bizarrely quiet in those story conferences until he suddenly explodes in a wild suggestion that you can kind of imagine Lucas smirking at and trying to swiftly move in the opposite direction of, he does come up with some pretty great ones too. It's fascinating as hell to see how Spielberg gets a very rough outline of a scene from Lucas and then starts throwing ideas at it, like the rolling boulder or the tarantulas in the opening Indy sequence. That kind of manic energy and childish absurdity is almost Chaplinesque and basically defines a lot of early Spielberg, particularly the Jones films. It's a double-edged sword though, since Looney Tunes stuff like 1941 and other occasionally cringeworthy comedy in Spielberg films is the adverse result of that mentality.

Overall though, it really is impressive to see, in a really direct and tangible way, how brilliant Lucas used to be a myth-maker and idea man. It really is the execution that bores him and tires him, probably because he just doesn't like dealing with people that much. He keeps suggesting in those story conferences that they "send other people" to shoot stuff, or try to find "some stock footage" for certain shots. While that's obviously a huge part of filmmaking, the frequency of his suggestions in that direction lead me to believe that he really just doesn't have a desire to be overly involved past the conceptualization stage. He would rather see other people do the footwork in service of his "dream," which is exactly what Plinkett touched on with his criticisms of Lucas as quite literally an armchair filmmaker who would rather have a quiet coffee than walk his actors through a scene.

I completely agree with you and I wonder what kind of stuff we might get from Lucas as a producer (and writer?) once Red Tails finally hits theaters next year....................and what the eventual Star Wars live action TV show might be like with others writing from and directing his ideas.

The absolute worst idea that Lucas had when it comes to the prequel trilogy was the decision to write & direct all of them himself.  Had he simply hired a director that would bring his vision to the screen and a writer to collaborate on the script with, each installment would have turned out a whole lot better than what we got.  For better or worse, the original trilogy was a collaborative effort.  The first film was informed by the opinions of George's friends and family.  Empire was Lucas filtered through Kasdan, Kirshner, and Brackett.  Jedi was a semi-collaboration with Kasdan.  The prequel are almost 100% unfiltered George Lucas and are comprised of many elements that he was talked out of including in the original films.

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Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration 

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Originally Posted by Gabe Powers There's also some concept art of the final confrontation taking place on a Mustifar like lava planet, right?

Correct. Vader brought Luke to the Emperor inside his lava throne room in a frickin' hallooowed-out volcanooo.

It's been a while since I read the REVENGE script, but I remember something about Obi-Wan's and Yoda's ghosts taking part in the final conflict as well. Silly shit, actually, that wouldn't be seen again until the Prequels. Marcia Lucas only stalled the inevitable, it seems.

I haven't watched the prequels in awhile, but from what I remember, the Force-ghosts barely even make an appearance in those movies, and are used even less frequently than in the originals -- the Qui-Gon "No, Anakin!!" in AOTC, and his (offscreen) visit to Yoda in ROTS.

Other than that, they're pretty much 100% ghost-free.
 

I think Litmus was referring to ridiculous ideas in general and not actual Force Ghost appearances.

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Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken 

I haven't come across a single person who was a child when the PT came out that DOESN'T think that the OT is better.

 

I have and it's not pretty.  A guy I work with says that ROTS is the best Star Wars movie because it has the best special effects and TESB is the worst because it's too slow.

Of course, his opinions on movies are completely reprehensible to start with.  He said that he doesn't like any movies made before 1995.  Also, it came up in (reluctant) conversation that he doesn't like Die Hard because it's boring.  "It's just a bunch of people talking."  The ignorance of the YouTube generation is to be greatly feared.

I would not say it's ignorance, just the lack of patience.   Younger people are just falling in line with an action beating have to happen every 15 minutes.  Which in turn just kills a films pace.

It's also lack of exposure. Nobody stumbles across great old movies by accident anymore, thanks to the consolidation of studio libraries and the prevalence of on-demand viewing.

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Originally Posted by Bill McNeal 

I have and it's not pretty.  A guy I work with says that ROTS is the best Star Wars movie because it has the best special effects and TESB is the worst because it's too slow.

Yeah, I know plenty of young-ish people who like the prequels better.  I spend my time trying to show them how great Empire Strikes Back is.

Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick 

I would not say it's ignorance, just the lack of patience.   Younger people are just falling in line with an action beating have to happen every 15 minutes.  Which in turn just kills a films pace.

But that's not the prequels.  Episode III is probably the most action-packed Star Wars film, but there's a solid 45 minute stretch of nothing but politics and conversations.

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Originally Posted by The Dark Shape 

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Yeah, I know plenty of young-ish people who like the prequels better.  I spend my time trying to show them how great Empire Strikes Back is.

 

Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick 

I would not say it's ignorance, just the lack of patience.   Younger people are just falling in line with an action beating have to happen every 15 minutes.  Which in turn just kills a films pace.

 

But that's not the prequels.  Episode III is probably the most action-packed Star Wars film, but there's a solid 45 minute stretch of nothing but politics and conversations.

Which 45 minutes, because there is nonstop action when I watch it.

In my memory, it's neither non-stop action nor 45 minutes of politics/conversations.  After the extended opening with the space battle (which ends with them landing), it's about 25 minutes until we see the Wookie battle.  It's all people talking while walking or talking while sitting on couches until then.

In addition to the fact that younger generations are used to more frequent action beats, they also don't even require legitimate action sequences.  They just need shooting and explosions happening, which is presented in ROTS with the Wookie battle.  There's nothing actually even going on in that sequence.  But hey... it's cool looking action!

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

In my memory, it's neither non-stop action nor 45 minutes of politics/conversations.  After the extended opening with the space battle (which ends with them landing), it's about 25 minutes until we see the Wookie battle.  It's all people talking while walking or talking while sitting on couches until then.

 

In addition to the fact that younger generations are used to more frequent action beats, they also don't even require legitimate action sequences.  They just need shooting and explosions happening, which is presented in ROTS with the Wookie battle.  There's nothing actually even going on in that sequence.  But hey... it's cool looking action!

oh ha ha ha you are so clever, you quoted Red Letter Idiocy. [/sarcasm]

The Wookie melee was awesome. You're just trying to prove you're too cool by not liking it when anyone with a heart did.
 

I'm most definitely not cool.  And sure... seeing the Wookie attack at the time (theatrical release) was cool.  I'm not made of stone.  But with distance, it's just a meaningless action beat.  It's a very cool one, but there's nothing going on there.

Sure, I'm quoting Red Letter Media.  But isn't it true?  I'd say the same thing for the Matrix sequels as well.  It was a lot of cinematically bland standing/walking/sitting and talking.  Was it something I noticed when I first watched them?  Nope.  But that's what makes learning fun!

EDIT:  And I'm one of the few who are all for your additional changes to the saga, you jerk!

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

In my memory, it's neither non-stop action nor 45 minutes of politics/conversations.  After the extended opening with the space battle (which ends with them landing), it's about 25 minutes until we see the Wookie battle.  It's all people talking while walking or talking while sitting on couches until then.

 

In addition to the fact that younger generations are used to more frequent action beats, they also don't even require legitimate action sequences.  They just need shooting and explosions happening, which is presented in ROTS with the Wookie battle.  There's nothing actually even going on in that sequence.  But hey... it's cool looking action!

That is such a piss poor excuse for an action sequence.  Not only do we not know any of the "good guys", they aren't even human and recognizable/distinguishable on that level.  And we don't know the bad guys either, and they aren't human, or even alive.  And we don't know what either side is trying to accomplish.  Or how it ends.  Or why it matters in the bigger scheme to the characters we do know.   And a wookie appears to Tarzan in on a vine from the offshore side of an invading boat.  And the one important character who is actually present doesn't even participate, and only shows mild interest in what is happening. 

This is the absolute essence of a special effect with no story.  Even the Transformers movies give names to the good robots that are blowing away the crowd of indistinguishable bad robots.

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

I'm most definitely not cool.  And sure... seeing the Wookie attack at the time (theatrical release) was cool.  I'm not made of stone.  But with distance, it's just a meaningless action beat.  It's a very cool one, but there's nothing going on there.

 

Sure, I'm quoting Red Letter Media.  But isn't it true?  I'd say the same thing for the Matrix sequels as well.  It was a lot of cinematically bland standing/walking/sitting and talking.  Was it something I noticed when I first watched them?  Nope.  But that's what makes learning fun!

 

EDIT:  And I'm one of the few who are all for your additional changes to the saga, you jerk!

Red Letter Idiocy is for sad hipsters with no soul. That movie is, dare I say it, as good as Empire. Does that make me a jerk, jerk?

There must be a lot of hipsters out there...

You can say that Sith is as good as Empire.  Why would I call you a jerk for that? 

I wish we could ban the word hipster under penalty of torture.

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Originally Posted by David Morgan 

oh ha ha ha you are so clever, you quoted Red Letter Idiocy. [/sarcasm]

 

The Wookie melee was awesome. You're just trying to prove you're too cool by not liking it when anyone with a heart did.
 

 

Wait, how does "having a heart" enable one to like the fucking Wookie Planet?! It's a battle between a bunch of Wookie's and Robots.
 

Is Simon Pegg a sad hipster with no soul?  Seems pretty happy to me.

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Originally Posted by David Morgan 

Red Letter Idiocy is for sad hipsters with no soul. That movie is, dare I say it, as good as Empire. Does that make me a jerk, jerk?

 

Christ dude, dial it back a bit, you're a cliche of a boring cliche at this juncture. 

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Originally Posted by Cylon Baby 

Wait, how does "having a heart" enable one to like the fucking Wookie Planet?! It's a battle between a bunch of Wookie's and Robots.
 

 

I know I was on the edge of my seat, hoping desperately that the one wookie with the darkish fur (the one who shakes the stick) managed to fight his way to Aquatic Assault Bot SST-1304 and exact revenge for the death of his nephew, as chronicled in the story I made up in my head after I'd seen the movie once.  I sincerely pity anyone whose personal insecurities and/or chemical imbalances prevented them from feeling the same.

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Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken 

I completely agree with you and I wonder what kind of stuff we might get from Lucas as a producer (and writer?) once Red Tails finally hits theaters next year....................and what the eventual Star Wars live action TV show might be like with others writing from and directing his ideas.

 

The absolute worst idea that Lucas had when it comes to the prequel trilogy was the decision to write & direct all of them himself.  Had he simply hired a director that would bring his vision to the screen and a writer to collaborate on the script with, each installment would have turned out a whole lot better than what we got.  For better or worse, the original trilogy was a collaborative effort.  The first film was informed by the opinions of George's friends and family.  Empire was Lucas filtered through Kasdan, Kirshner, and Brackett.  Jedi was a semi-collaboration with Kasdan.  The prequel are almost 100% unfiltered George Lucas and are comprised of many elements that he was talked out of including in the original films.

 

 

Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle 



I'm pretty sure Lucas asked Kasdan to help him write the prequels but Kasdan turned him down. He said something like: "It's your thing".

Even if he had help, it was George's vision, and all tose other people just helped bring that vision to life.

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Originally Posted by Cylon Baby 

Wait, how does "having a heart" enable one to like the fucking Wookie Planet?! It's a battle between a bunch of Wookie's and Robots.
 

 

Having a heart allows you to view these through child eyes, which is EXACTLY how you saw the other ones that are older, and is EXACTLY why you can't enjoy the prequels or the changes on the blu rays. If you had seen Hayden in the fireplace when you were a id you would have found it awesome, or expanded Mos Eilsey.

I think I would rather sit through a remake of all 6 films before watching the prequels again.

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Originally Posted by Pop Zeus 

I think I would rather sit through a remake of all 6 films before watching the prequels again.

I think George should remake the original movies so that he can let the crybabies have them normal like they were and make the trilogy over to better fit the prequels. This can clear up lots of plot holes and have the tech match up. I know it sounds like sacrilege but wouldn't most people rather have old Star Wars left the way it was and then go all crazy with the remakes?

I'd take remakes of all 6 as well, but mostly remakes of the first 3.

Episode I was all backwash that could be explained in a few lines.

Episode II was where the franchise should of started. The Clone War cartoons should of been Episode II. Anakin already in the Jedi order, and we learn via a few lines why the Jedi don't fully trust him. Have him fall in love with Padme as being both outcasts. Anakin needs to be a smug badass in the wars, becoming more proud as the wars go on. Palpatine would feed his ego, awarding him and setting up his fall in secret. Do we need to see his training? No. We get glimpses of it via Luke in ANH and ESB. Keep the Jedi more mysterious.

I'd have the Jedi be more like nomad roaming ronin. They have a council, but it only meets and connects when needs to. Really stick with the rule of 2s with the Jedi as well. That way Obi-Wan takes on Anakin as a good friend, but feels his death all the more due to a personal connection.  Palpatine uses the Jedi in the wars to lead his army on individual planets. Let him setup his army as flimsy and getting slaughtered, so he needs them to help out, but also seeks more and more power in the senate to try to "stop" the war.

The twins are born and kept in secret. Anakin needs to "die" in the wars, and return as Darth Vader. He pushes himself towards losing his humanity as he tries to enhance himself to fight the wars. Yes, he chooses to remove his own hand, as he can't accept himself as is, but also seeks the glory of victory, and to impress Padme all the more (even though she loves him for who he is).

Episode III should of been Order 666 and no clue that Anakin is Darth Vader. Yeah we know who he is, via the OT, but I wish some attempt was kept to establish the reveal in ESB. Even maybe showing a fake body to Padme to break her spirit. The idea of a broken heart is interesting, but Lucas didn't earn our trust in their relationship to feel that break. There needs to be a scene where when she dies, possibly protecting Obi-Wan, she looks right at Darth Vader and there is an unknown feeling she knows it's Anakin. His name isn't said, but we as an audience will have a new appreciation of that moment when we watch ESB.

If the OT had to be redone, keep ANH the same minus the Death Star, and ESB the same, except for one thing. Luke faces Palpatine in the ending as well, and have Vader kill Palpatine taking over the whole Empire, realizing his wish of making things as they should be. ROTJ should of been Luke having the issues of his killing his power mad father to save the galaxy. The final battle would take place on the Death Star.

Oh and Han would should first ;)

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Originally Posted by David Morgan 

Having a heart allows you to view these through child eyes, which is EXACTLY how you saw the other ones that are older, and is EXACTLY why you can't enjoy the prequels or the changes on the blu rays. If you had seen Hayden in the fireplace when you were a id you would have found it awesome, or expanded Mos Eilsey.

 

Except I can still watch the OT through a "child's eyes" without any problem. Also Raiders, Close Encounters, 2001, etc.

I think some of the changes to the Star Wars movies are fine, like Hayden in the fire or Palpatine in ESB instead of Monkey Man. The changes that don't work for me don't work because they are 1) poorly done (Greedo shots 1st!) or 2) they stop the narrative flow of the film (most of the minor "hijinks" in the special editions).