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Star Wars: The Prequel Trilogy - Page 2

post #51 of 177
12/26/10 at 12:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Didn't Lucas also direct some second and third unit scenes?

Yep, especially in that last month.

He also directed the scene of Luke saying bye to the medical droid.
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post #52 of 177
12/26/10 at 1:00am
Of course, it's not like those scenes are the ones that gave Empire its reputation.
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post #53 of 177
12/26/10 at 1:09am
True, but the idea that Lucas was barely involved with Empire is a myth. The screenplay is every bit as much his as Kasdan's.
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post #54 of 177
12/26/10 at 1:27am
Fair enough... I still think the collaborative effort is what produced ESB -- and that's in contrast to every SW film property since.
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post #55 of 177
12/26/10 at 3:48am
EMPIRE was just a perfect storm . But then so was RAIDERS. It wasn't so much that Lucas was a better collaborator then, in comparison to the prequels period. It's that he was peaking as a storyteller in that earlier period. He probably also had a kind of strength to his convictions due the success of Star Wars. That boldness really comes through in the EMPIRE and RAIDERS story conferences.

You also have to realize that it's hard to compare the first SW films to the latter ones. He was doing things for the first time. There's a frission/novelty to that original enterprise. None of that baggage of making a backstory to a film he did 20 years earlier.
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post #56 of 177
12/26/10 at 4:18am
There's also the question of whether he really wanted to make them. It's quite obvious that Revenge of the Sith was the film he was most interested in making, and it shows on screen. There's a sense of story-telling in that movie that's missing in The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, and it's not just about matching up with A New Hope.
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post #57 of 177
12/26/10 at 4:34am
Thread Starter 
Glad to see this thread picked up while I was away.

As far as the EU is concerned, I think one has to remember that Lucas doesn't think that any of that stuff really "counts." He can pick and choose from it as he wishes. He has every right to ignore what someone else created. I know I would. He probably wasn't even sure if he'd ever do another Star Wars film again when he started licensing books in the early 1990s. Anyway, if he actually did try to do a third trilogy, you can bet your ass that all that post-ROTJ EU stuff gets tossed out as an "alternate universe." And I'd welcome it. It would be a pain in the ass to do episodes VII, VIII, & VIX handcuffed by largely inferior work. The fact that Lucasfilm has to retcon stuff and explain contradictions for the fans is pretty silly as it is.

Anyway, to sort of redirect the conversation back to the prequels themselves, let me share a couple more thoughts I had while watching the films and reading folks' posts.

Anakin as a Slave

I have to say that I agree with Moonbase Nick's view that the idea of Anakin as a slave was a good one. Unfortunately, the way the prequels played out, it seems to me Lucas pretty much dropped the ball on such a fascinating plot point. I mean, if done right, it would have been much more satisfying to see Anakin's guilt over not coming back and saving his own mother, freeing the slaves as he had once dreamed, or even taking the Jedi Council to task for allowing slavery to exist in the first place. To see Anakin butting heads with the Council on legitimate issues like slavery would have made him more sympathetic and his turn against them at the end would have made more goddamn sense.

Jedi Masters are Dicks

While I have to admit that it was a disappointment to learn that most Jedi Knights were sexless, holier-than-thou dickwads, I once again think Lucas was on the right track here. For the Jedi to be wiped out, they needed to have a fatal flaw. And I think they certainly had a few. For one, their ban on "attachments" is pretty stupid and whatever Force Ghost Obi-Wan and Yoda think of Luke's "failure" at Bespin, my feeling has always been that Luke did the right thing. I think what the OT and LOTR have in common is a focus on "fellowship," a sort of unwavering faith in and loyalty to your friends. That may not be THE point of the narrative, but it's certainly a large part of it. I think to push that angle in the prequels, but have the opposite outcome would have been a neat bit of mirroring. But again, Lucas doesn't exploit this very well. Also, I think Palpatine could have manipulated Anakin much more explicitly by addressing the murky morality of the Jedi -- as peacekeepers who have no problem with killing (even decapitations) and as preachers of harmony and balance, but who allow the slavery that kept both Anakin and his mother in bondage to remain unchecked throughout the galaxy. This kind of shit needs to be apparent in the text itself not subtext (or fanwankery, as it were).

Where's the Han Solo equivalent?

I think most viewers, both fan and non-fan alike, missed Han Solo. Of course, he shouldn't have been there in a literal sense (hey, it's a kid in a black vest!), and I do recognize that finding an actor on par with vintage era Harrison Ford is one in a million. However, if Lucas had made Anakin an older teenager, with a much more fully formed, more "scoundrel-like" personality (in addition to the Skywalker whine), then we would not only be given a character who would stand in contrast to the stick-in-the-mud Jedi council, but he'd be more likely to question it or make fun of it, perhaps giving the character an "in" with the audience. Hell, it's also just a simple device for introducing the audience to a "new world." Of course, so is a child, but I digress...

_______________________________
*SamuraiMike, neoolong, Dukefleed, Kate, anybody I missed -- Thanks for the kind words; I wasn't actually the one staying in the hospital. My dad has had some serious health problems recently and was only supposed to come in on the 24th for some platelets, but the docs or whoever were dragging their feet on stuff, so we were stuck there for like 18 hours or so. I let my Mom have the comfy chair and went to the deserted visitor's lounge and half-assedly watched the prequels. Hence this thread to get my mind off of stuff. Luckily, everything turned out okay, and we got to come home for Christmas...and the OT!
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post #58 of 177
12/26/10 at 6:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Kate View Post
He inserted shots of Corruscant into ROTJ SPECIAL EDITION, featuring the square that has the top of the tallest mountain left on the planet left jutting out as a little nub. This is a detail from Timothy Zahn's trilogy. He included Dash Rendar's OUTRIDER space craft taking off during ANH SPECIAL EDITION. This ship only was created for SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE. SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE was a multimedia event that was to be the official word on what went down between EMPIRE and JEDI (featuring a fun novel, a videogame, comics, and footage retconned into the original trilogy) and was an official Lucas Film LTD priority project with Lucas himself putting the stamp of approval on the story line. It says that Rendar was on Tattooine meeting with Han right before Luke and Old Ben show up in the Cantina, and director George Lucas inserted Rendar's ship taking off from Mos Eisley in order to bolster that version of events when he recut the films for the SPECIAL EDITION

The name Corruscant is also an EU name, yet shows up in the Prequel films

EDIT: BTW, I know that I am now forfeiting any chance I ever had of being considered cool, but this is first time in like 10 years I've even spoken about STAR WARS in this kind of depth so please cut me some slack. I wish all these facts were not still kicking around in my memory but they are
Okay, not all, but he cherry picks what he wants.
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post #59 of 177
12/26/10 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlowe's Cat View Post
Anakin as a Slave

I have to say that I agree with Moonbase Nick's view that the idea of Anakin as a slave was a good one. Unfortunately, the way the prequels played out, it seems to me Lucas pretty much dropped the ball on such a fascinating plot point.
In addition to the points you make, there could have been the idea that, by joining an order that basically tells him how to live his life and where he can and can't go, he's simply traded one form of slavery for another.
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post #60 of 177
12/26/10 at 9:42am
Chud.com: where people spend christmas day putting the boot into George Lucas for the 19 billionth time. Congratulations.
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post #61 of 177
12/26/10 at 10:03am
Marlowe's cat, I think you're pretty much on the money with this. A lot of good basic material not executed properly.

Anakin should have been the Solo surrogate, but I think Obi-Wan is too much the stick in the mud. I always thought a kind of James Bond feel would have been good for Obi-Wan, with a similiar charisma and charm.

Your points (and Dickson's) about slavery are spot on, and I agree about the Jedi being flawed.

I thought the deleted Qui-Gonn voice-over would have been a key part in this, with the whole love being the answer to the darkness stuff and Yoda and Obi-Wan finally realizing how to be great Jedi in time for the OT, but even if this had been in, it would all have needed to be finessed and worked into to the whole PT a lot better. I couldn't agree more with whoever said the PT feels like first drafts were filmed. I wonder if the PT could be a rare case when Studio intervention would have been a good thing.

I always feel like all they had to be was very solid blockbuster fare and the rest of the SW universe and Williams' score would have elevated them up several notches.

The first Zorro came out the year before TPM and I always thought that the feel Campbell, Banderas and Hopkins created was the kind of adventure the first prequel should have been.
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post #62 of 177
12/26/10 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlowe's Cat View Post

Jedi Masters are Dicks

While I have to admit that it was a disappointment to learn that most Jedi Knights were sexless, holier-than-thou dickwads, I once again think Lucas was on the right track here. For the Jedi to be wiped out, they needed to have a fatal flaw. And I think they certainly had a few. For one, their ban on "attachments" is pretty stupid and whatever Force Ghost Obi-Wan and Yoda think of Luke's "failure" at Bespin, my feeling has always been that Luke did the right thing. I think what the OT and LOTR have in common is a focus on "fellowship," a sort of unwavering faith in and loyalty to your friends. That may not be THE point of the narrative, but it's certainly a large part of it. I think to push that angle in the prequels, but have the opposite outcome would have been a neat bit of mirroring. But again, Lucas doesn't exploit this very well.
I thought this was one of the things the prequels did well, setting up the idea that Anakin needs more to go on than blind, unquestioning faith, and he never gets it. The Jedi treat Anakin like a loaded gun. He really needed family. He got, essentially, a security squad. Obi Wan's failure isn't that he didn't train Anakin as well as Qui Gon could have, but that he forgets that Qui Gon treated Obi Wan as his friend. Padme sorta sees that's what he needs, which leads to what I've always taken as a pity fuck/marriage, but she's delusional rather than honest about what Anakin is. The failures are set up early, and Sith does pay them off, just not with the confidence the ideas really needed.
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post #63 of 177
12/26/10 at 1:56pm
Lucas was set to direct Apocalypse Now... Now I'm wondering how that film would have turned out!
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post #64 of 177
12/26/10 at 2:06pm
French family scene aside, Apocalypse Now is heavy on visual, light on dialogue, abstract storytelling.

70s Lucas would've done well with that flick, actually.
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post #65 of 177
12/26/10 at 4:17pm
Then I wonder the type of choices he would have made after it.
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post #66 of 177
12/26/10 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post
SITH is the best, although that's not saying much. Weirdly, even with the improved tech the space battle pales beside the battle in JEDI.
There's no weight to the action. And that's especially true in that... they're all fighting a bunch of droids and you have nobody to care for. Anakin and Obi-Wan have no worries about their jobs. No urgency in anything. It's not a war, it's a walk in the park.
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post #67 of 177
12/26/10 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlowe's Cat View Post
Jedi Masters are Dicks

While I have to admit that it was a disappointment to learn that most Jedi Knights were sexless, holier-than-thou dickwads, I once again think Lucas was on the right track here. For the Jedi to be wiped out, they needed to have a fatal flaw. And I think they certainly had a few. For one, their ban on "attachments" is pretty stupid and whatever Force Ghost Obi-Wan and Yoda think of Luke's "failure" at Bespin, my feeling has always been that Luke did the right thing. I think what the OT and LOTR have in common is a focus on "fellowship," a sort of unwavering faith in and loyalty to your friends. That may not be THE point of the narrative, but it's certainly a large part of it. I think to push that angle in the prequels, but have the opposite outcome would have been a neat bit of mirroring. But again, Lucas doesn't exploit this very well. Also, I think Palpatine could have manipulated Anakin much more explicitly by addressing the murky morality of the Jedi -- as peacekeepers who have no problem with killing (even decapitations) and as preachers of harmony and balance, but who allow the slavery that kept both Anakin and his mother in bondage to remain unchecked throughout the galaxy. This kind of shit needs to be apparent in the text itself not subtext (or fanwankery, as it were).
Yeah this whole thing stuck in my craw the most. I don't see at all what reason Lucas could have to make the Jedi such a pathetic bunch of schmucks. They were, after all, the good guys! Who exactly were we supposed to root for in the prequels? Anakin? No, because he constantly acts like an asshole, until Revenge of the Sith, where he becomes an ACTUAL asshole. The Jedi are a bunch of joyless fuckwits with no appeal at all - what kind of kid is gonna have his imagination fired by such a rabble of retards? Obi-wan? Well at the end of TPM it seemed like he would become more defiant like Qui-gon. But did he? Nope. Just went back to being a humourless stooge.

How on Earth can we be expected to connect with these characters when they all act like tools? The Jedi are shown to be completely bamboozled by Palpatine right from the get-go - and that never changes. It pains me severely that those fucking battledroids were the antagonists in all 3 prequels. So what we have are useless good guys, useless bad guys, and a central villain who really just sleepwalks his way to victory - which just makes the whole thing so much worse when you remember he is ultimately defeated by goddamn ewoks.

And to top it all off, none of the action scenes even came close to topping the first Death Star attack, the Hoth invasion, or ROTJ's final space battle.
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post #68 of 177
12/27/10 at 1:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
Then I wonder the type of choices he would have made after it.
His idea for Apocalypse Now (along with John Milius) was to go and direct it in Vietnam. While the war was still going on. I'm guessing he wouldn't have many choices left after that, unless corpses get to decide their own rate of decomposition.
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post #69 of 177
1/1/11 at 2:05am
Thread Starter 
Well, Mr. Plinkett & Red Letter Media have done a hell of a job to put this thread to bed, eh? Although I know people have been shitting on these movies since they came out, I just kind of wanted to revisit them and see if people had any new thoughts on them or whatever.

But really, the guy's final summation is frickin' spot-on, that despite whatever quibbles you have about plot, characters, etc, it really comes down to a failure to emotionally connect with the audience.

What really surprised me about the review though was his focus on the prequels' over-reliance on classic Hollywood cinema-meets-soap opera shooting/editing techniques in contrast to something like Citizen Kane or even The Empire Strikes Back. I've always felt these "talky" scenes were boring, but he really delves into the specifics of why.
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post #70 of 177
1/1/11 at 12:10pm
I think to go a step further, it's more along the lines that it's obvious through every step of the process of creating these films that what George Lucas loves about these films is not even remotely what most of his fanbase loved about them. The strengths of Sith, such as they are, really come down to that being the one film where Lucas not compromising his story and actually having some measure of fire under his ass. That's the film he wanted to make all along, the story he wanted to tell, exactly as he wanted to tell it.

Plinkett nails all the problems inherent with that, along with his laziness as a filmmaker, but he also made a point that Ive always had in mind, but isn't nearly a bad reflection on Lucas as it is on others; that is, the idea that that the OT never made as big a deal out of Vader as we did. Lucas acted accordingly. That fact spreads to so many ideas through the prequels (especially the Fetts, who Lucas never really held in as high regard as fans), as well as Star Wars as a whole, which has always been a pulpy mess of a premise/universe, elevated by one, and ONLY ONE epic mindblower of a sequel.

So, Lucas not giving a fuck and making three goofy ass movies according to his wishes has never bugged me, in retrospect. Our reaction to them does moreso than any Yippees or Jar Jar Binks we've witnessed.
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post #71 of 177
1/1/11 at 2:38pm
It's easy to dismiss what works about all the movies in the first trilogy and chalk it up to how good of a movie ESB is.... the truth is that while they have their flaws, ANH and RotJ have more character and charm in 20 minutes of runtime than the prequels have in their entirety. There's no character in the prequels, that's why they completely don't work. Sith does improve on this problem, marginally, but I think even harsh critics would have forgiven some of the awful plot holes and pacing of the prequels if they had even a hint of what the original trilogy had in terms of people to care about and root for.

They are awful movies, among the worst I've paid for and sat through in the theaters, and it's odd to see posters that know movies so well make excuses for them. George Lucas composes some wonderful shots, and John Williams does some strong (if predictable) work. Those are the only redeeming elements of the prequels, everything else varies from barely there to mind-bogglingly terrible. Not in terms of Star Wars, in terms of storytelling.
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post #72 of 177
1/1/11 at 3:13pm
I've reached the point where I'd rather talk about what I like about the OT than continue dissecting what went wrong with the PT. It's like doing an autopsy on someone who jumped off a building. Pretty obvious what happened, let's move along.

EDIT: Got my Ts mixed up.
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post #73 of 177
1/1/11 at 7:09pm
Er, did you mean the prequels? And I agree. I used to absolutely hate the Prequels and would be very vocal about it, but now? Meh. I mean, they're terrible films, but it's just not worth getting too worked up about them. I focus more on how the original Star Wars inspires me than complain about the prequels.

That's not to say you can defend them, but I'd rather focus on how awesome ESB is than how every aspect of the prequels blows donkey nuts.
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post #74 of 177
1/1/11 at 11:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I've reached the point where I'd rather talk about what I like about the OT than continue dissecting what went wrong with the PT. It's like doing an autopsy on someone who jumped off a building. Pretty obvious what happened, let's move along.

EDIT: Got my Ts mixed up.
Took the words outta my mouth. I'm one who missed the boat on that guy's reviews. I tried watching his TPM review, but stopped early in. I already know the prequels suck...I'm not interesting in listening to some guy make a feature length review on why they suck. It's like digging up a dead body and studying every single imperfection. Star Wars isn't worth the effort. Unless he does this on other movies too...?
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post #75 of 177
1/2/11 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
Took the words outta my mouth. I'm one who missed the boat on that guy's reviews. I tried watching his TPM review, but stopped early in. I already know the prequels suck...I'm not interesting in listening to some guy make a feature length review on why they suck. It's like digging up a dead body and studying every single imperfection. Star Wars isn't worth the effort. Unless he does this on other movies too...?
I think you're missing the big point on why Plinkett's reviews are noteworthy. Yes, he tears the Prequels about 397 new assholes but what he really gets down to, if you give him a chance, is some interesting exploration of fundamental storytelling and characterization. It's not that what he's saying is mindblowingly new. It's the way he's saying it and how he's using the Prequels (and other films) as examples. He's also charting the rise and fall of one of the most important storytellers in cinema history, using Lucas' own comments and behind-the-scenes footage as proof, which is both fascinating to watch and a cautionary tale for those interested in following that path. And on top of all that, he's managed to create his own style and voice which I (and apparently others) find amusing.

And yes, he does this on other movies too.
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post #76 of 177
1/2/11 at 3:19pm
I think the reviews are at their most successful when juxtaposing early Lucas inteviews and clips of the OT (in particular the Yoda speech in his AOTC review) with the complete opposite applied to the PT. I've always been an apologist and still enjoy parts but I find the anaylsis in the reviews really, really great. You're spot on about the cautionary tale aspect (although I appreciate we should all be so lucky to get ourselves into such a lofty position from which to fall (in creative terms if not commercial)). I'd like to see him take on King Kong or the Lovely Bones - I think Jackson is showing similar signs of decline. albeit on a much smaller scale.
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post #77 of 177
1/2/11 at 3:25pm
I enjoy his TPM review immensely, not so much because of any overwhelming rage at the way the prequels turned out (although I will go to my grave wishing they had been good) but because it is a very well-made video review. But yeah, in many ways I'm like you guys in that I'd rather watch other movies than continue to stew about Star Wars. Lambasting the prequels is a strange feeling, because while ripping into them feels good, there's always gonna be that underlying feeling of wishing I could like them. Go check out the Force.net forums, where they have threads devoted to 'how to enjoy the prequels'. It's a staggering display of self-delusion that is so awful it's almost admirable, like someone self-immolating.

I do enjoy Plinkett's Star Trek reviews a lot, mostly because I enjoy that franchise but have no particular attachment to it beyond liking the TNG series when I was younger. And he has a lot of ammunition about how the later Trek films really screwed up the good work done by the series.
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post #78 of 177
1/2/11 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
It's like doing an autopsy on someone who jumped off a building. Pretty obvious what happened, let's move along.
But Plinkett's reviews go well past the "jumped off a building" aspect and dive into the headspace of that person prior to the jump. (to clumsily continue your analogy)
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post #79 of 177
1/2/11 at 6:48pm
My comment wasn't so much about the Plinkett reviews (or else I'd have posted it in that thread), but the general "here's what the prequels got wrong" discussion going on here.
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post #80 of 177
1/2/11 at 8:11pm
I didn't realize it took twenty years to build the Death Star. It's the second avenue subway of space stations.
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post #81 of 177
1/2/11 at 8:14pm
It's the size of a moon. Let's see New York do that.
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post #82 of 177
1/2/11 at 8:17pm
Yeah, but a small moon.
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post #83 of 177
1/2/11 at 8:48pm
Well, they learned from their mistakes. They got that second one fully operational inside of four years.
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post #84 of 177
1/2/11 at 9:28pm
And it was much BIGGER!
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post #85 of 177
1/2/11 at 9:32pm
That's what she said.

Empire takes place six months or so after the first one, so the second Death Star was already under construction for a couple of years before the rebels found out about it? Is that right?
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post #86 of 177
1/2/11 at 9:38pm
The opening crawl of Jedi states "the Galactic Empire has secretly begun construction on a new armored space station." So all this talk about it being built concurrently with the first Death Star is just back-pedaling to justify the fan-wank of having the Death Star show up at the end of Sith.
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post #87 of 177
1/2/11 at 9:45pm
Oh right, the second Death Star was in Return of the Jedi.
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post #88 of 177
1/2/11 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration View Post
I think you're missing the big point on why Plinkett's reviews are noteworthy. Yes, he tears the Prequels about 397 new assholes but what he really gets down to, if you give him a chance, is some interesting exploration of fundamental storytelling and characterization. It's not that what he's saying is mindblowingly new. It's the way he's saying it and how he's using the Prequels (and other films) as examples. He's also charting the rise and fall of one of the most important storytellers in cinema history, using Lucas' own comments and behind-the-scenes footage as proof, which is both fascinating to watch and a cautionary tale for those interested in following that path. And on top of all that, he's managed to create his own style and voice which I (and apparently others) find amusing.

And yes, he does this on other movies too.
There's only so many ways you can beat a dead horse before you tune out. Honestly the prequels aren't worth it. Not interested.
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post #89 of 177
1/2/11 at 10:06pm
When your prequel reviews are longer than the movies themselves it's not noteworthy. It's masturbation.
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post #90 of 177
1/2/11 at 10:28pm
***FAN-WANK ALERT*** You have been warned...

Now that I think about it, I wonder if instead of having the Empire whip up a second Death Star for JEDI ("Why buy one, when you can buy two at twice the price?") -- it might have been more interesting for the Rebels to have come up with their own Doomsday weapon instead. Hear me out, and apologies if this has already been covered in the EU, as I don't give two shits about that stuff...

The opening crawl would establish that the Empire has almost completely crushed the Rebellion. Like the U.S. in WWII, the Rebels know that they have to take desperate action to end the war, so their brightest minds come up with a terrible, planet-killing weapon that they plan to unleash on Coruscant, wiping out the Emperor and the Imperial seat of power. They need a group of volunteers to infiltrate Coruscant (paging Luke, Han, Leia, etc.) and deploy the weapon. Once Coruscant is wiped out, the Rebel Fleet will use the confusion of the sneak attack to come in and take out any remaining Imperial resistance. Whereas everyone else thinks this is a great plan to crush the Empire with one fatal blow, Luke questions the ethics of such a weapon, which will kill billions, much like the original Death Star did to Alderaan. This causes tension between Luke and Han (who wants to blow the living shit out of the Empire) with Leia caught in the middle, as she wants revenge for Alderaan but also knows in her heart that Luke is right. Luke decides to abandon their mission and go to Coruscant on his own, turning himself into Vader and the Emperor, pretty much following a similar story to what we saw in JEDI. Han & Co. run into some complications with their infiltration plan, as the Rebel Fleet is about to arrive and get slaughtered. Unable to penetrate Corsucant's defenses, Han considers launching the weapon into the Executor and the heart of the Imperial Fleet instead, but he'll have to sacrifice himself to do it. A tearful farewell to Leia, Chewie, etc., and Han flies the Falcon (carrying the weapon) on a kamikaze trajectory into the Executor. The weapon detonates, taking out every fucking Star Detroyer in sight, catching the Emperor off-guard. When Vader converts back to the good side, he kills the Emperor, saves Luke and uses his newfound authority to drop Coruscant's defenses before he dies. The Rebel fleet arrives, facing moderate resistance, and takes over Coruscant, liberating its citizens. Luke is reunited with Leia on the planet surface and they gaze upon the fiery, wreckage-strewn sky above Coruscant, mourning Han but celebrating his sacrifice. Harrison Ford gets his way, no need for an uninspired second Death Star and even better, no Ewoks.

I dunno. Something like that. This Rebel super-weapon plot could nicely underline the same theme that Luke is facing in his confrontation with Vader -- beware hunting monsters lest you become the monster. I know this has fuck all to do with the Prequels but whatever.
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post #91 of 177
1/2/11 at 10:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
There's only so many ways you can beat a dead horse before you tune out. Honestly the prequels aren't worth it. Not interested.
I guess you missed my point too. But you're right. It's not worth it.
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post #92 of 177
1/2/11 at 10:35pm
Sounds like a great alternate reality story. Plus: NO EWOKS!!
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post #93 of 177
1/2/11 at 10:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration View Post
I guess you missed my point too. But you're right. It's not worth it.
I got your point. He's not saying anything I care to listen to because I've done it all in my head more times than I can remember. It doesn't help that I can't stand his voice either.
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post #94 of 177
1/2/11 at 11:14pm
The Death Star in Jedi is a remnant from the original three-film story Lucas wrote, when the attack on the space station was to be the finale of the trilogy. When Lucas pared it down to one film, he used that as the climax. Further proof that the trilogy wasn't as intricately planned as it was later claimed to be.
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post #95 of 177
1/3/11 at 1:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
That's what she said.

Empire takes place six months or so after the first one, so the second Death Star was already under construction for a couple of years before the rebels found out about it? Is that right?
Just a quick chronology clarification: Empire is three years after Star Wars, and Jedi is one year after Empire.
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post #96 of 177
1/3/11 at 1:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
The Death Star in Jedi is a remnant from the original three-film story Lucas wrote, when the attack on the space station was to be the finale of the trilogy. When Lucas pared it down to one film, he used that as the climax. Further proof that the trilogy wasn't as intricately planned as it was later claimed to be.
Aside from the recycling of the Death Star basically being George Lucas saying "I'm out of ideas", I always hated how it undermined the awe and menace of the first one.

We are told it's a weapon of singular destructive power, only to eventually find out there's an assembly line of them somewhere. It would be like Darth Vader getting killed in one movie, only to have Darth Vader II show up in the next one.
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post #97 of 177
1/3/11 at 2:26am
I also find it funny that you could build such a thing in secret. I mean, if Clerks is right and they had to outsource to independent contractors, everyone in the Galaxy would be hearing about this. Especially since the new one is like, Death Star 2.0
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post #98 of 177
1/3/11 at 3:11am
You'd think they'd just use droids for the whole thing then. I suppose that wouldn't look good with the whole Clone Wars versus robots thing though.
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post #99 of 177
1/3/11 at 3:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headless Fett View Post
When your prequel reviews are longer than the movies themselves it's not noteworthy. It's masturbation.

No head for math.
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post #100 of 177
1/3/11 at 3:34am
Anybody with any interest in filmmaking should be watching the Plinkett reviews. It's like a master class in story analysis. If you're not interested in how films are made, only experiencing them as an audience member, then yeah, don't bother.

As for the prequels themselves, I can understand that people wanted them to be good. But I don't think I'm any more disappointed that they weren't than most other films. I want everything to be good when I walk in. I think seeing a bad Coen brothers film (The Ladykillers, for the record), was more devastating to me than any of the prequels.

True, I did manage to convince myself that I liked them for a while. But years later, after I've accepted that they weren't good, I still can't understand the level of butthurt. If I carried that kind of pain over every movie I wanted to enjoy and didn't, I'd be in an institution by now. These are just three more movies that didn't pan out.
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