LATE TO THE PARTY: HARD BOILED

Enjoy this feeling of discovering Woo. Now, never ever ever watch his American films. Keep that feeling intact.

Well, maybe Face/Off. Some may tell you Hard Target, but that's more a JCVD crapfest than a Woo film. But other than that, stay away.

Broken Arrow is really great, but that's mostly because of insane Travolta and his endless charisma.

I remember when I first saw Hard Boiled back in 2004, and was blown away by the sheer carnage on display. I then showed my Fox Lorber dvd to my Dad, and he loved it.

If you have a PS3 or an Xbox 360, Jeremy, you should check out the videogame sequel, Stranglehold. It's got a lot of damn good action in it.

Definitely check out Face/Off, if only to see how Woo's tropes were best showcased in Hollywood.  Otherwise, Greg is right.  

Check out MI:2 if you really wanna see some misdirected Woo (despite the fact that I still dig the movie for silly reasons).

Definitely finish it all off with Red Cliff part 1 and 2!

Well don't I feel silly.  I HAVE seen Broken Arrow and Face/Off, but they were so long ago when I was at an age where I didn't really pay attention to directors and such and just never had them associated with Woo as I got older.  I'll be damned.  That image of Castor Troy getting out of the Cadillac while his trench coat billows out behind him in slow motion is forever seared into my brain as being one of the most badass things I had ever seen (at the time).  Surely today that wouldn't hold up, but back then?  Hell yes.

Yep what Greg said.

God Jeremy, I'm a little bit jealous, I'd love to go back to being sixteen and discovering Woo all over again. I remember discovering Woo and Tarantino at almost the exact same time, watching Hard Boiled and Reservoir Dogs within a week of each other. Those were good film geek days.

Enjoy The Killer JG and then head straight for Bullet In The Head and A Better Tomorrow 1 & 2. After that I'd leap-frog his American output entirely (except Face/Off tho by that time it may seem strangely familiar if not downright derivative) and head straight for the epic that is Red Cliff Parts 1 & 2.

You're in for a good time tho that's for sure.

Check out Once a Thief.  Not the American version.  It's more of a comedy, but when the violence hits, it hits hard, which somehow makes it even funnier.  It's not the best but it just might be my favorite. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGButler 

That image of Castor Troy getting out of the Cadillac while his trench coat billows out behind him in slow motion is forever seared into my brain as being one of the most badass things I had ever seen (at the time).  Surely today that wouldn't hold up, but back then?  Hell yes.

You know... I think that moment still holds up.  All other examples of such gratuitous trenchcoat choreography I've seen since have paled in comparison to Cage exiting that car.  It broke my trenchcoat cherry (Face/Off broke my Woo-cherry and introduced me to a whole 'nother world of film) and I'll always think of it as the BEST.  It also boasts John Powell's first credited score for a feature length film!  Made me a fan for life.

Jeremy G. Butler, You just saw my...Favorite, John Woo flick, Hardboiled.  I fully disagree with people who say Face Off is his only good American film.  

John Woo's US films...

1) Windtalkers

2) Face Off

3) MI:2

4) Hard Target

John Woo's Hong Kong films...

1) Hardboiled

2) Red Cliff 1 and 2.  P.S. do not by the theatrical release.  Buy the 2 disk set which is the original 5 hour version.

3) The Killer

4) Once A Thief P.S. I also agree there is no reason to watch the US tv version.

Damn, now I wanna watch Face/Off again.  But not before I catch up with the other Hong Kong films.  I actually have A Better Tomorrow II here at the house - borrowed it from the same dude who lent me HB.  He doesn't have part 1 though, I need to track that down.

Definitely watch The Killer before re-watching Face/Off to see just how self-derivative Woo got with his Hollywood work.  Since that was my first Woo movie, everything felt so fresh.  But Rain Dog is totally right.  If you were already familiar with his Hong Kong work in 1997, it wouldn't be nearly as eye-opening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGButler 

Damn, now I wanna watch Face/Off again.  But not before I catch up with the other Hong Kong films.  I actually have A Better Tomorrow II here at the house - borrowed it from the same dude who lent me HB.  He doesn't have part 1 though, I need to track that down.

Actually, I do have A Better Tomorrow 1, but I didn't include it because A.) I think the audio is screwed up on my old-ass DVD and 2.) it's not (in my opinion) necessary to have seen the first to enjoy the second.

OH look who finally decides to use the boards!  Also, if I were just gonna drop the money, is it better to track down the Criterions of HARD BOILED and THE KILLER or would the Dragon Dynasty Blus do the trick?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGButler 

OH look who finally decides to use the boards!  Also, if I were just gonna drop the money, is it better to track down the Criterions of HARD BOILED and THE KILLER or would the Dragon Dynasty Blus do the trick?

The Criterions for both are out of print, so the blus are definitely the way to go. 

Oh, and it's worth watching HARD TARGET if only because it gets more and more absurd as it goes along. By the time Van Damme's spectacularly mulleted Cajun is somersaulting over trucks and blowing them up by shooting his dirtbike and then punching out snakes, you just have to sit back and laugh and wonder why Woo agreed to do the movie in the first place.

(Also, don't you sass me about getting on the boards. I'll post when I damn well please!)

Definitely track down a copy of The Killer. It's a better film than Hard Boiled, but nothing could ever top that action. Seriously. I'm pretty sure there's no way Hard Boiled could ever be made today what with insurance premiums and legal issues being what they are. That's the greatness of this movie; not only was it utterly batshit insane to watch, making it was actually hazardous to everyone's health.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Gittes 

 

The Criterions for both are out of print, so the blus are definitely the way to go. 

 

Oh, and it's worth watching HARD TARGET if only because it gets more and more absurd as it goes along. By the time Van Damme's spectacularly mulleted Cajun is somersaulting over trucks and blowing them up by shooting his dirtbike and then punching out snakes, you just have to sit back and laugh and wonder why Woo agreed to do the movie in the first place.

 

(Also, don't you sass me about getting on the boards. I'll post when I damn well please!)

Sorry Greg, I have to see this now.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pop Zeus 

Definitely track down a copy of The Killer. It's a better film than Hard Boiled, but nothing could ever top that action. Seriously. I'm pretty sure there's no way Hard Boiled could ever be made today what with insurance premiums and legal issues being what they are. That's the greatness of this movie; not only was it utterly batshit insane to watch, making it was actually hazardous to everyone's health.

Fucking YES.  I actually wanted to get into that in the write-up but spaced on it trying to get it finished.  The extra-wrangling and stunt work involved in all of that shit is just staggering to consider.  Hell, it was staggering to consider in the warehouse raid, it would probably break my brain to consider it for the hospital set piece.

This was an incredible write up. I had a HARD BOILED experience similar to yours back in 10th grade, and it quite literally changed my life in ways so profound I'm only just now beginning to understand them. It's hard for me to put into words just how much I envy you, getting to experience Woo and CYF's filmography fresh from the beginning. Some people will say to watch THE KILLER next, but personally I'd suggest A BETTER TOMORROW as I think it's the better film, and will help to demonstrate a different side of CYF where he isn't the bullet proof master killer. He is probably the actor with the most incredible range alive on the planet today, and  you'll be astounded by the variety of roles he's able to master, while never for one moment surrendering his complete and total command of the screen

Woo and CYF joined forces for only five films. You've just seen one. Good luck with the other four. Also check out BULLET IN THE HEAD too, of course. Outside of his work with CYF, it's probably one of Woo's best films from his HK days

BTW, you're kind of, IMHO, wrong to dismiss the plot in HB as boring. Tony Leung's character is fascinating, and kind of echoes his later work in INFERNAL AFFAIRS. CYF makes any scene he's in either instantly hilarious or edge of your seat intense, so I am not sure why you're upset with his scenes with his boss (Who if memory serves me is named Terrance Chan?). His dialog in those scenes cracks me up: "You are so full of shit, go find a toilet"

And Anthony Wong? He's chilling and makes for a very compelling bad guy. He too has incredible dialog as well

It's not Woo's best film on a dramatic level, but the human element is very strong and I cared about the characters at least

PS Here is my write up about when I first saw HARD BOILED 

My favorite Chow Yun Fat films of all time

I start off this list by stating plainly and clearly for all to hear: This is not a "BEST Chow Yun Fat Films" list. As an example, The Killer is clearly better than ABT2, but no one should be faulted in this thread for saying ABT2 is a favorite before The Killer.

Before I give my list, I'll just give some brief background on my obsessive interest in CYF. When I was 16, I was working in an art house movie theater part time. It was a one screener, and when I'd come in to work on Saturdays, sometimes other employees, or in this case, the Managers daughter, would be holding private screenings for friends of films on DVD (there was a digital projector along with a film projector). I did not like this girl, so I for the most part ignored her.... all untill one fateful Saturday afternoon...


I came in to work, and walked over to the theater from concessions to see what she was showing and to figure out how long it would take till she was out of there and I could get the place ready to open.

What I saw on the screen that day profoundly changed my life forever.


I saw a man I believed was Chow Yun Fat (an actor I only barely had heard of, and had till that point only seen in CTHD). I wasn't sure, because he was sneaking around a hospital, chewing on a toothpick, holding a gun. This did not fit the image of CYF that I had in my mind. I had thought that him doing an 'action' picture like Crouching Tiger was a stretch, and that his career had mainly been as an actor in serious Chi-Drams (Chinese dramas). Fascinated, and still not sure I was seeing what I was seeing (remember, CTHD had only come out a year or two before this, so he was fresh on my mind), I watched in slack jawed fascination as CYF proceeded to ambush men in a hospital room, plant a white rose in a ladies pocket, and generally act totally fucking cool.

As it turns out, I had stumbled in to the last 45 minutes of Hard Boiled. I ended up neglecting my job to sit in on her showing with her stupid friends (I went to elementary school with this girl, but she'd left for a private school in seventh grade). The insane, bullet riddled action was unlike anything I'd seen in American Cinema. This was crazier than the Matrix which was up till then my favorite gun play movie. Hundreds of people were shot by CYF and Tony Leung. Shot in slow motion, regular motion, and one glorious long shot that seemed to never end.

When I stumbled out of the theater, I knew I needed to find out what I'd just seen. And it went from there. I got a few of my friends hooked, and soon we went down to China Town in NYC and I bought fully half of CYF's filmography on DVD (This is far more impressive than it sounds. If you are not aware, CYF stared in upwards of 10 films a year at the height of his 80s heyday).

I began to realize what made him so cool. He COULD shoot up 200 people, but he could just as equally and as readily act like a complete goofy loon for an entire movie. He could go from screwball unhinged comedy and over the top emotions to greatest action star on earth in the course of one take. The unpredictable nature of just what CYF had in store for me each time I popped in a new DVD I purchased was utterly enthralling. He could be sad, and serious, and full of regret (ABT), or insane, childlike, and full of glee (As the mentally challenged 'Chocolate' personality he reverts to in God of Gamblers). Even his more serious (on the surface) efforts in collaboration with John Woo could yeild moments of delightful insanity. Take for example the scene where CYF frantically and maniacally feeds Uncle Ko in ABT2.


I'd never seen an American Star behave this way. When you went into a Tom Cruise film, you knew how his character was going to behave. You knew going in to MI1 (Mission Impossible) for example, that there would not be a scene where Tom would wet his pants in terror. You know going into a Bruce Willis film that Bruce Willis would most likely not beat up a woman or drink an entire glass of raw eggs and then break down in tears. In The Sixth Sense, no matter how many ghosts showed up, I knew that Mr Willis would not go on a delightful magic flying ride with one. These things COULD happen in a Chow Yun Fat film, and that floored me. Fat was unpredictable and unafraid to get his star tarnished, or look like a jerk to his audience. In my mind, that's what made him a real star.

He was unlike anyone I'd ever seen on the screen, and he helped open my horizons to a whole world of film I'd never experienced.



Without further delay, my list:

Hard Boiled
A Better Tomorrow 2
A Better Tomorrow 1
The Killer
God of Gamblers
Tiger on Beat
Anna and the King
Once a Thief
Replacement Killers
The one with Mark Whalberg where he says Marky Mark has "yellow fever" 
The Fun, The Luck, and The Tycoon
City War (on my dvd, right before he shoots the bad guy in the throat, he tells him to 'masturbate in hell*')
Prison on Fire
God of Gamblers 2


Thats all for now, but do not get me wrong, I like every film on that list, even if its just for a few aspects of his part in it.

*The screwy translations were the source of neverending amusement. I also liked to compare subtitles across multiple released off the same film on DVD. Often there were huge differences

PS I have and never will see Bullet Proof Monk. I couldn't stand to watch him sink to those depths. 

 

BTW: JGB Do NOT watch ABT2 before ABT1. That would be folly of the highest order. ABT2 is kind of light and breezy when it comes to the plot, and it kind of counts on you being familiar with the characters and their issues from ABT1

EDIT: Also a reason to check out ABT next, is that HARD BOILED was Woo and CYF's last HK film before both of them went to Hollywood, and it would be good to then go back to the film that was a break out smash hit and made them both stars (ABT) (though I am not sure if CYF made GOD OF GAMBLERS RETURNS after he made HB or if GOGR was just released afterwards)

EDIT: STRANGLEHOLD is awesome, BTW. You play as CYF. That should be all you need to know (and the destruction tech is pretty awe inspiring)

Stranglehold actually made me feel a bit of existential nausea.  I literally felt sick playing it.  "Why am I still playing this?  It's not even all that enjoyable... uggggggh..."  And yet, play it to the end I did. 

Am I remembering that right?  About the testicles?  It really seems like someone somewhere made a big deal about that when the game was released.

Also - I'll take all of that under advisement, PK.  I really dig your enthusiasm (and the compliment!).

Well, once you gain certain abilities, there is a targeting mode that allows you to be much more accurate.  Should you choose to use such abilities to target testicles... is up to you (I certainly partook in that!).  But no, I don't recall a specific testicle targeting system.  Heheheh.

My favorite shot during that warehouse sequence?

Tequila rolls to dodge gunfire, gets on his knees and unleashes his shotgun that swings into action.  That movement has stayed with me for some reason (because it's badass).

Why no one has made a .gif of  Arnold Vosloo karate chopping that fat bastard, Poe in the gut in Hard Target baffles me.

Hard Target is as insane as is claimed. Since Woo was just coming off of Hard Boiled, it's not that surprising that Hard Target ended up as crazy as it did.

I infamously detested The Killer for a long time, after renting it twice, once in 1999, then again in 2004, and hating it both times. I took a gamble this past summer and picked up the Dragon Dynasty dvd set of it, and 3rd time was the charm, since now I like it. It's not as great as Hard Boiled, but now I understand why it's held in such high regard.

Interesting!  What made you go as far as DETESTING The Killer, Rene?

I still regard THE KILLER as the perfect John Woo film, but HARD-BOILED is a shitload of fun.  Must have seen it 3 or 4 times at various Southland theaters within a span of 3 months (late Dec '92 ~ Feb '93; Festival Hong Kong was a big hit that winter).  And that was after I had already soaked up the bootleg Taiwanese and Korean (cut to shit, but released hella quick) VHS tapes. 

One of my fondest theater memories that year was at a Long Beach AMC screening, right after Tequila's slide down the banister w/ both Chinese-made guns blazing.  There was a second of stunned silence, then the crowd (mostly Woo newbies, I'd guess) exploded w/ applause and cheers as Tequila surveys his kill and looks around for any leftovers.  A moment of instant bonding w/ all my fellow theatergoers.

I watched Face/Off a few months ago, and it still holds up great as my 14-year-old self remembered. It goes on one or two action beats longer than it needs to, and is more than a little ridiculous, but man, Nic Cage is on fire in the film. Back when Nic Cage acting crazy felt interesting, not just an extension of normal ol' Nic Cage. That, and he says "DIE!" better than anyone in any film in the history of any ever.

It goes something like "DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" but more drawn out.

Yeah, if somehow there is only one Woo movie you're obliged to watch it has to be The Killer. No exceptions. That said, I don't expect action cinema to ever top the hospital shootout in Hardboiled. Maybe match it, maybe even exceed it in some parts, but never top it outright. For some weird reason it got a limited theatrical release over here a few years back. Of course I ran to the theater at the first opportunity. The projectionist, bless him, had the volume a bit too high. People were coming out of the theater shell-shocked after the film ended. Weak kneed and out of balance. With the very definition of a shit eating grin on everyone's face. It was pretty glorious.

Personal trivia: I spent quite a while trying to imitate the way Cage walks in that airport scene. I even got a trenchcoat. It never got any less than completely embarrassing.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

My favorite shot during that warehouse sequence?

 

Tequila rolls to dodge gunfire, gets on his knees and unleashes his shotgun that swings into action.  That movement has stayed with me for some reason (because it's badass).

I watched it recently and I still love it. Tequila sliding down the front of that car then pulling out that shotgun was the absolute pinnacle of badassery when I first saw it, it still is. Another thing that tends to get overlooked is how amazing the score for HB is, the smooth jazz aside, the music during the action scenes is kinetic and propulsive, it's one of the best action scores ever composed.

Very fun write-up, Jeremy. I still consider this the best of the best when it comes to shootouts and insane action.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGButler 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Gittes 

 

The Criterions for both are out of print, so the blus are definitely the way to go. 

 

Oh, and it's worth watching HARD TARGET if only because it gets more and more absurd as it goes along. By the time Van Damme's spectacularly mulleted Cajun is somersaulting over trucks and blowing them up by shooting his dirtbike and then punching out snakes, you just have to sit back and laugh and wonder why Woo agreed to do the movie in the first place.

 

(Also, don't you sass me about getting on the boards. I'll post when I damn well please!)

 

Sorry Greg, I have to see this now.
 

You also have Wilford Brimley victoriously riding a horse from a giant explosion. In slow motion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

My favorite shot during that warehouse sequence?

 

Tequila rolls to dodge gunfire, gets on his knees and unleashes his shotgun that swings into action.  That movement has stayed with me for some reason (because it's badass).

I'm still totally dazzled by that shot where Tequila(I think, or is it Alan?) diving through that stripped car. The camera is in the car with him and EVERYTHING in the car is breaking apart. In slow motion. 

The long take in the hospital is incredible, I can't imagine how long it took them to set that up and how many takes it took to nail(I remember reading this in the past but can't remember, maybe it's on IMDb). I've always wondered... is there a cut in it? There's a moment in the elevator where the angle changes slightly. It could just be missing frames or something, but's always struck me as odd. Maybe they had to stop and loaded more film as quick as possible.
 

It was Alan driving through the stripped car.  In slow-motion. 

I actually just got done watching through the entire hospital finale of the film (thanks to Jeremy).  I just love the way Woo milks almost everything to an inch of its life.  When it's as batshit crazy as Hard-Boiled, this is a great thing (when it's not, you get MI2).  Even the smaller stunts within huge sequences look super painful and full of impact. 

As for the long take in the hospital, I 'felt' a cut right during the moment the cop is accidentally shot by Tony Leung.  The film slows down (artificially) on the dying body of the cop, and right there it feels like the film skips a few frames before panning to Leung's horrified face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stelios 

 

Personal trivia: I spent quite a while trying to imitate the way Cage walks in that airport scene. I even got a trenchcoat. It never got any less than completely embarrassing.  

John Woo:  Making dorks like us act like bigger dorks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

John Woo:  Making dorks like us act like bigger dorks.

But what if I made it work, nooj? What if I could walk around like that, my trenchcoat waving in the wind? The world would be my oyster then. Power, women, money, fame, all would be in the palm of my hand.

I had to try.

A bunch of other people back in film school also preferred A Better Tomorrow to the rest of Woo's HK output. Personally, it didn't hit me anywhere near as hard as The Killer did, but given that was so long ago (VHS!) I would love the opportunity to rewatch it... if only the movie was easy to acquire. Note to self: check used DVD store.

A Better Tomorrow II actually has Chow showing up as his identical twin brother. And Part III is a prequel.

Love the theme song. Simply classic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

John Woo:  Making dorks like us act like bigger dorks.

To this day (like, even this morning) everytime I get out of the car when the wind is blowing, I try to do it in such a way that my jacket does that.  It's a nice little suburban khaki windbreaker, so the effect isn't the same, but I still FEEL like a badass.

And I need to rewatch HARD BOILED.  I was so shell shocked from the "What the fuck" of it all that there's no way I caught everything.  You dudes keep mentioning the tracking shot and I didn't even notice it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

Interesting!  What made you go as far as DETESTING The Killer, Rene?

Mostly for it being way too "artsy" for me, and just not liking it in general. I kept hearing how it was so great, and I never saw any of that. I just saw an assassin trying to take care of a blind girl and his conscience getting the better of him. It just was too sappy for me, when all I wanted was lots of action. Granted I was 15 when I saw it the first time, and 20 the second. It just never clicked with me, and every time people heaped praise on it, made me detest it more, because for the life of me, I couldn't find one thing that made it even remotely great.

Then I took that gamble this past summer, bought it, and I guess 6 years makes all the difference, because now I appreciate it. It's no longer "sappy", and I admire Woo for giving Chow's character an arc, and how it comes full circle at the end is brilliant to say the least.

I still like Hard Boiled more though. The endless supply of bad guys in the hospital has a lot to do with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stelios 

But what if I made it work, nooj? What if I could walk around like that, my trenchcoat waving in the wind? The world would be my oyster then. Power, women, money, fame, all would be in the palm of my hand.

 

I had to try.

You don't have to justify yourself to me.  You're talking to a guy that spent all of high school trying to shimmy around like Travolta's take on Castor Troy.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene (Mr.Eko) 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

Interesting!  What made you go as far as DETESTING The Killer, Rene?

Mostly for it being way too "artsy" for me, and just not liking it in general. I kept hearing how it was so great, and I never saw any of that. I just saw an assassin trying to take care of a blind girl and his conscience getting the better of him. It just was too sappy for me, when all I wanted was lots of action. Granted I was 15 when I saw it the first time, and 20 the second. It just never clicked with me, and every time people heaped praise on it, made me detest it more, because for the life of me, I couldn't find one thing that made it even remotely great.

 

Then I took that gamble this past summer, bought it, and I guess 6 years makes all the difference, because now I appreciate it. It's no longer "sappy", and I admire Woo for giving Chow's character an arc, and how it comes full circle at the end is brilliant to say the least.

I submit that those six years may have increased your tolerance for melodrama, which The Killer (my personal favorite Woo, and one of my "desert island" movies) is brimming with.
 

I really can't see anyone with no tolerance for melodrama liking any Woo movie beyond finding the action scenes cool. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

My favorite shot during that warehouse sequence?

 

Tequila rolls to dodge gunfire, gets on his knees and unleashes his shotgun that swings into action.  That movement has stayed with me for some reason (because it's badass).

What I love is what happens right after it: he shoots the shotgun and a mook experiences what me and my friend call the "MANSQUIB", because it looks like the squib he was wearing looks like it's damn near softball-sized and it's on his front AND back.  Shit, that must've stung.

Also, to this day, the Castor Troy wind-in-trenchcoat shot is still one of my all-time favorites.  Giving the 'Hero Shot' to a bad guy?  That shit blew my teenage mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene (Mr.Eko) 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

Interesting!  What made you go as far as DETESTING The Killer, Rene?

Mostly for it being way too "artsy" for me, and just not liking it in general. I kept hearing how it was so great, and I never saw any of that. I just saw an assassin trying to take care of a blind girl and his conscience getting the better of him. It just was too sappy for me, when all I wanted was lots of action. Granted I was 15 when I saw it the first time, and 20 the second. It just never clicked with me, and every time people heaped praise on it, made me detest it more, because for the life of me, I couldn't find one thing that made it even remotely great.

 

Then I took that gamble this past summer, bought it, and I guess 6 years makes all the difference, because now I appreciate it. It's no longer "sappy", and I admire Woo for giving Chow's character an arc, and how it comes full circle at the end is brilliant to say the least.

 

I submit that those six years may have increased your tolerance for melodrama, which The Killer (my personal favorite Woo, and one of my "desert island" movies) is brimming with.
 

Yeah, it pretty much has. I don't know where the tolerance came from, but it's there now. Pretty much what Stelios said is how I felt about it from 1999-2010. Cool action sequences in a boring movie.

I own the Dragon Dynasty release of Hard Boiled now as well, so I've got 2 copies of Hard Boiled. At least the Dragon Dynasty one is anamorphic.

Oh yea... oh yea... (go to 6:23 or so...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke fleed 

Jeremy G. Butler, You just saw my...Favorite, John Woo flick, Hardboiled.  I fully disagree with people who say Face Off is his only good American film.  

John Woo's US films...

1) Windtalkers

2) Face Off

3) MI:2

4) Hard Target

 

John Woo's Hong Kong films...

1) Hardboiled

2) Red Cliff 1 and 2.  P.S. do not by the theatrical release.  Buy the 2 disk set which is the original 5 hour version.

3) The Killer

4) Once A Thief P.S. I also agree there is no reason to watch the US tv version.

 You are so right, Mr Fleed. WINDTALKERS is a much better film than many give it credit for, and I include myself among those who don't always give it it's proper due. You have to admire the story Woo was trying to tell, and even if it doesn't always work for me on a dramatic level. The action is by far some of the craziest ever seen in a WW2 film, and I can't help but wonder how THE PACIFIC might have turned out had HBO looked to Woo to helm their project

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

Stranglehold actually made me feel a bit of existential nausea.  I literally felt sick playing it.  "Why am I still playing this?  It's not even all that enjoyable... uggggggh..."  And yet, play it to the end I did. 

Really? I think it's actually a legitimately great game. Every one of your bullets feels like it's actually going somewhere and causing mayhem, even when you don't shoot who you were aiming at. The destruction tech cranks the intensity up to the next level, and I for one found it to be giddy fun. The game play mechanics also worked quite well, jumping and diving ETC. I especially liked rolling around on carts. Plus... CYF as INSPECTOR TEQUILA IN A VIDEOGAME SEQUEL TO HARD BOILED! What more do you want?
 

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Originally Posted by JGButler 

Am I remembering that right?  About the testicles?  It really seems like someone somewhere made a big deal about that when the game was released.

 

Also - I'll take all of that under advisement, PK.  I really dig your enthusiasm (and the compliment!).

Thanks alot, JGB. There are very few subjects in my life about which I feel this level  of enthusiasm

 

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

Well, once you gain certain abilities, there is a targeting mode that allows you to be much more accurate.  Should you choose to use such abilities to target testicles... is up to you (I certainly partook in that!).  But no, I don't recall a specific testicle targeting system.  Heheheh.

It's kind of pointless to use Tequila Time to target an enemy's genitalia. The zoom target move takes up two bars of Tequila Time, which could be used to replenish health twice in a pinch. I rarely used that move, and the only time where it was really useful is when you're targeting a piece of the environment in order to set up a crazily catostrophic string of events via the destruction system

There is no good reason to use it to just target someone's genitals though. That is a quick way to end up dead

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Originally Posted by stelios 

Yeah, if somehow there is only one Woo movie you're obliged to watch it has to be The Killer. No exceptions. That said, I don't expect action cinema to ever top the hospital shootout in Hardboiled. Maybe match it, maybe even exceed it in some parts, but never top it outright. For some weird reason it got a limited theatrical release over here a few years back. Of course I ran to the theater at the first opportunity. The projectionist, bless him, had the volume a bit too high. People were coming out of the theater shell-shocked after the film ended. Weak kneed and out of balance. With the very definition of a shit eating grin on everyone's face. It was pretty glorious.

 

Personal trivia: I spent quite a while trying to imitate the way Cage walks in that airport scene. I even got a trenchcoat. It never got any less than completely embarrassing.  

I've noticed alot of similar stories on this page. Woo inspires an intense and unique devotion in his followers, clearly. I can't help but be reminded of the famous story about how the summer after ABT came out, all across HK the city's youth were sweating through the intense heat wearing thick dusters and aviator shades, in order to emulate the incomparable cool of CYF's style. Woo and CYF poked a bit of fun at this phenomena in ABT2, where all the all the young kids working at Ken's restaurant wore ill fitting dusters in order to look like Mark

Full Disclosure: I have an embarrassing tale of Woo emulation of my own. I have burned my lips, tongue and mouth area countless times trying to replicate CYF's bizarre and impossibly cool lighter trick from ABT2

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Originally Posted by NathanW 

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

My favorite shot during that warehouse sequence?

 

Tequila rolls to dodge gunfire, gets on his knees and unleashes his shotgun that swings into action.  That movement has stayed with me for some reason (because it's badass).

I watched it recently and I still love it. Tequila sliding down the front of that car then pulling out that shotgun was the absolute pinnacle of badassery when I first saw it, it still is. Another thing that tends to get overlooked is how amazing the score for HB is, the smooth jazz aside, the music during the action scenes is kinetic and propulsive, it's one of the best action scores ever composed.

As others have already mentioned, my favorite shot is actually Tony Leung's slow motion dive through the derelict car that is getting shotgunned. Simply glorious

Oh, and I LOVE LOVE LOVE the smooth Jazz. It's all part of CYF's mystique. He can play goofy smooth jazz, while also being known as the "God of Guns" (one of HARD BOILED's alternate titles)

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Originally Posted by Nexus-7 

Very fun write-up, Jeremy. I still consider this the best of the best when it comes to shootouts and insane action.

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Originally Posted by JGButler 

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Originally Posted by Mr. Gittes 

 

The Criterions for both are out of print, so the blus are definitely the way to go. 

 

Oh, and it's worth watching HARD TARGET if only because it gets more and more absurd as it goes along. By the time Van Damme's spectacularly mulleted Cajun is somersaulting over trucks and blowing them up by shooting his dirtbike and then punching out snakes, you just have to sit back and laugh and wonder why Woo agreed to do the movie in the first place.

 

(Also, don't you sass me about getting on the boards. I'll post when I damn well please!)

 

Sorry Greg, I have to see this now.
 

You also have Wilford Brimley victoriously riding a horse from a giant explosion. In slow motion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

My favorite shot during that warehouse sequence?

 

Tequila rolls to dodge gunfire, gets on his knees and unleashes his shotgun that swings into action.  That movement has stayed with me for some reason (because it's badass).

I'm still totally dazzled by that shot where Tequila(I think, or is it Alan?) diving through that stripped car. The camera is in the car with him and EVERYTHING in the car is breaking apart. In slow motion. 

 

The long take in the hospital is incredible, I can't imagine how long it took them to set that up and how many takes it took to nail(I remember reading this in the past but can't remember, maybe it's on IMDb). I've always wondered... is there a cut in it? There's a moment in the elevator where the angle changes slightly. It could just be missing frames or something, but's always struck me as odd. Maybe they had to stop and loaded more film as quick as possible.
 

I don't believe there are any cuts till we get to the obvious one when they're facing off against MAD DOG. The film is just undergoing a stutter effect as the camera artificially slows down in order to highlight key events (Tony/Alan getting shot in the gut during the early part of the corridor sequence, and then again when Tony kills the undercover cop -- without the slow mo it would be easy to miss that guy's badge)

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Originally Posted by stelios 

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

John Woo:  Making dorks like us act like bigger dorks.

But what if I made it work, nooj? What if I could walk around like that, my trenchcoat waving in the wind? The world would be my oyster then. Power, women, money, fame, all would be in the palm of my hand.

 

I had to try.

I can't fault you for trying, in fact? I admire it

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Originally Posted by Pop Zeus 

A bunch of other people back in film school also preferred A Better Tomorrow to the rest of Woo's HK output. Personally, it didn't hit me anywhere near as hard as The Killer did, but given that was so long ago (VHS!) I would love the opportunity to rewatch it... if only the movie was easy to acquire. Note to self: check used DVD store.

ABT is a better film than the KILLER, IMHO. The killer is a crazy action movie with some solid human drama. I love CYF's performance, and it's taughtly directed, but the eyeball plotline kind of takes a back seat to the action. IMHO ABT is a moving drama that just happens to have a few crazy action scenes

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Originally Posted by Rene (Mr.Eko) 

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Originally Posted by Sherman Davies 

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Originally Posted by Rene (Mr.Eko) 

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

Interesting!  What made you go as far as DETESTING The Killer, Rene?

Mostly for it being way too "artsy" for me, and just not liking it in general. I kept hearing how it was so great, and I never saw any of that. I just saw an assassin trying to take care of a blind girl and his conscience getting the better of him. It just was too sappy for me, when all I wanted was lots of action. Granted I was 15 when I saw it the first time, and 20 the second. It just never clicked with me, and every time people heaped praise on it, made me detest it more, because for the life of me, I couldn't find one thing that made it even remotely great.

 

Then I took that gamble this past summer, bought it, and I guess 6 years makes all the difference, because now I appreciate it. It's no longer "sappy", and I admire Woo for giving Chow's character an arc, and how it comes full circle at the end is brilliant to say the least.

 

I submit that those six years may have increased your tolerance for melodrama, which The Killer (my personal favorite Woo, and one of my "desert island" movies) is brimming with.
 

Yeah, it pretty much has. I don't know where the tolerance came from, but it's there now. Pretty much what Stelios said is how I felt about it from 1999-2010. Cool action sequences in a boring movie.

 

I own the Dragon Dynasty release of Hard Boiled now as well, so I've got 2 copies of Hard Boiled. At least the Dragon Dynasty one is anamorphic.

I have the MEI AH anamorphic release, which features the original HB cover art. HB's poster is one of my favorite posters of all time. Shotgun. Check. Baby? Check!

I actually own the original press kit that was sent out to art house theaters in the 90s about HB, and it's on my wall to this very day
 

BTW: JGB: This is quite probably my favorite article on CHUD in a long long time. That is not to say the other articles are not great (they are, that is why I read this site day after day), but your write up of your first HB experience was utterly delightful to read, and I'd hope you'd consider keeping us updated as you go through the rest of Woo's and CYF's filmography. "LATE TO THE PARTY: A BETTER TOMORROW 2". I'd read the heck out of that article

PS JGB: This is an artwork I did based on a screen capture of CYF's face from ONCE A THIEF: