CHUD LIST: COCKBLOCKED! – DISCUSSION THREAD - Page 2

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Originally Posted by Elisabeth Rappe 

Thanks for the kind words, everyone.  And NSFW tag added....

 

One of my friends is currently arguing with me that I dismissed Verhoeven a little hard, but I see less of Flesh and Bone and more of Showgirls in his ideas.  

No no, I agree - that certainly seems to be the 'artistic' direction he was taking at that point in his career. The guy had a serious boner for euro-style R-rated titillation that obviously the first Basic Instinct hadn't satisfied. Maybe that and this Sea Boobs flick falling through are why he simply had to direct Showgirls?

There was a point where Verhoeven said he wanted to be the first director to have an erect penis in a mainstream film around the time he was doing Basic Instinct. Verhoeven and his crazy ideas!

Yeah, he was certainly returning to more Euro-arthouse roots at that point.

...then he gave us all Starship Troopers, go figure.

(although that could be read as one giant Verhoven commentary on American culture at that point)

Verhoeven needs to start making films on a regular basis again.  I know he has been trying, but he has had a lot of bad luck lately.  I really miss his insanity.

Great series so far.

I pine for a copy of that undiluted Nigel Kneale script for Halloween III. I hadn't heard of Joe Dante being attached before, but that combination screams "potential classic".

I love Verhoeven, but damn that screams Showgirls on the high seas. Albeit with a good lead actress. But, it would have been something, although I think Crusade seemed like the safest bet not to crash and burn.

I think Carolco would have had a much likelier chance of survival if they had made Crusade instead of Cutthroat Island.

Arnold was still bringing them in, so a big budget epic with lots of swordplay and action would certainly have made lots of money.

All the more reason why I have always been confounded that they shitcanned Crusade to make Cutthroat Island instead.  Where is the logic there?

Nicely written, but I disagree. It definitely wasn't a dodged bullet. Compared to Cutthroat Island's beginning to end worthlessness, with Mistress Of The Sea we'd at least get some early nineties Davis/Pfeiffer T&A. Assuming the movie remained in Verhoeven's hands all the way through. Granted that's a pretty shitty single goal to have for a movie but its alternative is fucking Cutthroat Island. A movie without a single second of worth.

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Originally Posted by stelios 

Nicely written, but I disagree. It definitely wasn't a dodged bullet. Compared to Cutthroat Island's beginning to end worthlessness, with Mistress Of The Sea we'd at least get some early nineties Davis/Pfeiffer T&A. Assuming the movie remained in Verhoeven's hands all the way through. Granted that's a pretty shitty single goal to have for a movie but its alternative is fucking Cutthroat Island. A movie without a single second of worth.

C'mon stel, do you believe for one second Davis or Pfeiffer would have shown a single inch of R-Rated skin - regardless of who was directing? This would never have happened in its original capacity.

You know what we would have gotten? Either Sharon Stone as as our titular character, or worse, Elisabeth fuckin Berkley.

I would accept nudity from either of them as a more than worthy substitute for fucking Cutthroat Island. To see where I'm coming from, you have to understand how much I hate Cutthroat Island. I'd watch any Left Behind movie instead of this. I'd watch any Tyler Perry movie instead of this. The only thing I would dislike more would be to watch Harlin have crazy monkey sex with my girlfriend while she screams about my gross inadequacies as a lover and a human being while Cutthroat Island plays in the background. On the other hand, I could watch Verhoeven have crazy monkey sex with my girlfriend while she screams about my gross inadequacies as a lover and a human being and I'd be pretty OK with it.

You see?

Disagree with the dodged bullet. We're just assuming that it would've been Showgirls on ships, but are forgetting that it would've been a pirate story. Directed by Paul Verhoeven. Even if the film had ended up bad, it wouldn't have been boring... definitely not something you can say about Cutthroat Island.

But I think the fact that Verhoeven had already allowed the script to be compromised and reshaped into what was (apparently) destined to become a Harrison Ford vehicle -- a 1990s Ford vehicle, where the seams were already starting to show -- suggests it could have been just as boring and awkward as Cutthroat Island was.  I think the original concept was silly, but what it ultimately became was even cornier.  I mean, Scarlett O'Hara on the high seas? What the hell is that?

And Verhoeven CAN direct a boring movie.  Or at least I thought Hollow Man was boring as hell.  I may be the minority.

It's a hard call though and I'm glad there's debate!  For my part, I'm just not convinced that it wouldn't have been boring.  Best case scenario, it would have been total camp and yes, that would be worth taking a bullet for. Worst case, Random Hearts on the sea.

I'm not a fan of Hollow Man, but I didn't find it particularly boring. It's got a lot of his trademark rapey weirdness.

I've seen Cutthroat Island in its entirety... and yet I can't remember a single bloody thing about it.  Zilch.  Weird.  Or lucky, more like.

FYI: Thursday was missing an entry due entirely to a clerical error on my part, but we'll start back with an entry today and you can expect a very tight list going forth.

Too late, you RUINED it! You RUIN EVERYTHING!

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Originally Posted by stelios 

Too late, you RUINED it! You RUIN EVERYTHING!

Well, someone hasn't had their bougatsa and coffee this morning.

Bougatsa in the morning is for tourists, old people and wimps who can't handle a hangover properly. And as for coffee, I'm on my fourth double espresso of the day. So you're wrong.

Apologies sir, carry on with your anti-Renn tirade.

(Geez Renn, I hope you're proud of what you've wrought here)

David keeps it a' rollin'....

http://www.chud.com/38175/chud-list-cockblocked-day-4/

Didn't I also hear the Wachowskis had Brandon Lee in mind for Neo while they were writing that script? God, thinking about that again just pisses me off.

Great write up, David.

The first three entries are great. I had never heard that Paul Verhoeven wanted to do a pirate movie, and it just serves as a reminder that there are probably ten Verhoeven films I have yet to see. Does anyone have any recommendations for his films pre-Robocop? A lot of them seem to be out of print. 

The Crow write-up didn't really seem to fit on this list. It's not like there was a competing Crow project that got cockblocked. A guy got shot and killed.

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Originally Posted by NoMoreMrNiceGaius 

The first three entries are great. I had never heard that Paul Verhoeven wanted to do a pirate movie, and it just serves as a reminder that there are probably ten Verhoeven films I have yet to see. Does anyone have any recommendations for his films pre-Robocop? A lot of them seem to be out of print. 

 

The Crow write-up didn't really seem to fit on this list. It's not like there was a competing Crow project that got cockblocked. A guy got shot and killed.

While specific films (or events involved with them) will always be the cockblockers, the cockblockee's will range from projects, to careers, to genres, and a few weird other things in between.

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Originally Posted by Renn Brown 

 

While specific films (or events involved with them) will always be the cockblockers, the cockblockee's will range from projects, to careers, to genres, and a few weird other things in between.

Ok fair enough. But the other entries were more interesting because they focused on subjects that aren't really common knowledge. Looking forward to reading the rest.

That Mistress Of The Seas write up was a lot of fun. I totally wish that one had happened.

But damn, the Brandon Lee one puts the others in a different perspective.

Okay this is one close to my heart. I was a massive massive geek for young Brandon, having been a huge fan of his father, I'd earmarked him as the next big thing in action after watching Rapid Fire three times at the cinemas and Showdown In Little Tokyo at least fifty at home. His was one of the few celebrity deaths I remember being utterly gutted by, more because of the utter waste of such obvious potential. To see The Crow go onto the success it did and have so many people mention how pleasantly surprised they were by how good Lee was just made it sting more.

He really had the potential to end up as big a name as his dad and not just as an action star, but a fully fledged movie star. The guy was already signalling he wanted to move on from action films as quickly as possible, seeing The Crow as pathway for that and seemed to have a pretty decent head on his shoulders from the interviews I've seen.

Brandon would've been 46 now and I honestly believe he'd have been a very big name. Nice write up David.

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Originally Posted by NoMoreMrNiceGaius 

The first three entries are great. I had never heard that Paul Verhoeven wanted to do a pirate movie, and it just serves as a reminder that there are probably ten Verhoeven films I have yet to see. Does anyone have any recommendations for his films pre-Robocop? A lot of them seem to be out of print. 

Check out Flesh and Blood if you've never seen it. It's available to rent, and was on Netflix Instant for awhile.  It's a vicious movie, and a bit troubling in its sexual politics. Even allowing for a medieval mindset, Jennifer Jason Leigh is way too happy go lucky considering what all happens to her, even it if it at the hands of Rutger Hauer.

But Hauer plays one hell of an antihero in it. Really grimy, nasty movie.

Flesh and Blood is the movie that really makes me think Verhoeven could have knocked a sexy gritty pirate film out of the park, actually.

Yeah, I blind bought the dvd of Flesh And Blood, and it's quite the gritty and disturbing little medieval picture. I agree on Jennifer Jason Leigh. Her character gets way too "eager" in some of the scenes.

I really liked the Brandon Lee write up. Although I think he would have had a good run for a while, then started making DTV films, with of course, the eventual comeback picture.

In the alternate univerese, Brandon Lee would have had the Jet Li role in the Expendables.

Or he could be hosting Iron Chef America.

The man was at a similar point and just as prepared to hone his craft as someone of the caliber of a Brad Pitt back in '94. He was also just as ready to make interesting and challenging career choices. I truly believe the guy could have been one of the biggies had he lived.

I dont think "The Crow" would have been the huge cult movie it is. It would be a great stepping stone movie.

Agree the spectacle of the Bruce Lee vs Abul-Jabbar fight is undeniable. Still an adrenaline rush. I'm glad you mentioned Bruce Lee: A Warrior's Journey --the extra footage is pretty amazing.

Day 5: Game of Death

http://www.chud.com/38466/chud-list-cockblocked-%E2%80%93-day-5/

Day 6: Disney Hand-Drawn Animation

http://www.chud.com/38810/chud-list-cockblocked-day-6/

Just coming to post that myself.

Now that is something I would have liked to have seen, instead we get something akin to The Land Before Time.

Disney had previously used CGI in The Adventures Of The Great Mouse Detective, Oliver And Company, The Little Mermaid and The Rescuers Down Under.  And no, I'm not talking about CAPS.

I defer on that. B&B was the one where they really sold that the ballroom scene couldn't have been done without CG.

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Originally Posted by Doc Happenin 

 

Now that is something I would have liked to have seen, instead we get something akin to The Land Before Time.

Does anyone remember the extended trailer that they stuck on all their 1999 DVDs? That was gorgeous, and had zero dialog.

This one!

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Originally Posted by Damon Houx 

I defer on that. B&B was the one where they really sold that the ballroom scene couldn't have been done without CG.

I'll agree that the camera moves and photorealism in BATB's ballroom scene really needed the CG to pull it off.  But it also would've been really impossible to solely hand animate the clockworks in The Great Mouse Detective's clock tower fight and achieve the same result.

I loved that silent trailer!  I still remember seeing it at the theater for the first time and being blown away.  Perhaps I had missed something in between, but *I* thought that was the finest CGI that had been done up until then.  (Finding out the backgrounds were superimposed definitely took the wind out of the sails. "Oh. Then that ISN'T the realest water I've seen.")

I also remember hearing around then that it was a silent, experimental, "nature" film and I was really excited.   Then the trailer came out that showed the story and the dialogue, and I didn't even bother to see it at the theater. I rented it and ... well, thought the same thing everyone else did.    And it really has fallen through a hole in time.

I'd kind of like to see it again, just to see how bad the CG looks. The screencaps in the post don't look TOO bad. Did you take that plunge, Damon? :)

ETA: Never mind, watched the trailer. It really doesn't hold up very well!

Yeah, Dinosaurs looked really interesting before I had the chance to watch it.

The demise of Disney's hand drawn animation makes me sad. My first viewing of The Beauty And The Beast still remains one of the most visually impressive experiences I've had in a theater. I probably looked like some puppy with comically exaggerated eyes though the whole thing. It was so beautiful.

If I'm not mistaken, the biggest casualty of Dinosaurs was the Secret Lab, Disney's in-house digital animation studio.

Day 7!

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Originally Posted by JGButler 

Day 7!

Nice write-up Jeremy. Can't say I agree with the 'bullet dodged' thesis tho I'm way too much of a massive historical epic geek that the idea of Kubrick getting to tackle Napoleon with the sort of cast being speculated about is simply too phenomenal to not be heart-broken that it never happened. That's me tho. 

No dude, I'm with you.  Every bit of me wants that movie, I spent about 15 minutes going back and forth on the verdict for that and, in the end, it came down to two things: 1) my (probably) unreasonable amount of love for THE SHINING (one of my very first horror movies - very formative and nostalgic for me) and the possibility that it wouldn't have existed and 2) the fact that a LOT of what we didn't get to see in NAPOLEON made it into BARRY LYNDON, which sort of, in a roundabout way, ended up being NAPOLEON Lite.

Plus, and maybe it's just the romantic in me, I think we need myths and legends like this and, sometimes, they're more valuable than the films themselves.