RED STATE - Post release

Toyed briefly with the thought of catching it at the Wilbur in Boston tonight. The more I hear about it, the more I think I can wait till October.

Caught this is Indy last week.  Loved it.  It is by far, Smith's best work, at least technically speaking.  It's faced paced, concise, and literally exploding with action...yeah, action.  At one point in the movie I started thinking about that scene in Hot Shots: Part Deux, where they are counting the number of kills(more than "Robocop"!).  Spoilers....the last section of the movie is literally non-stop shooting.  I mean the volume of gun fire that was on display was not what I was expecting from Smith.  If I didn't know this was a Kevin Smith movie, I probably never would have guessed it.  I am not a fan of "shaky cam" a la Bourne, but something about this worked in Red States favor. I think it also helps that the movie is just under 90 minutes so it doesn't have a chance to wear on you.

While I don't think the film as a whole has any chance at an Oscar, I would not be surprised if Parks, Goodman(especially), and even Leo got some recognition for their work.  Their performances are that good.  Plus, they all seem to be relishing their parts and having a great time.  Another thing I loved about the flick is that no character is sacred.  Spoilers...people that you expect to live die early, people you expect to hate you start to see their side and feel bad for them, and even the "good guys" are colored with grey.  No one is safe in this flick and the ending....so good.

I would pay to see this again in the theater.  Mainly because I want to see how other people react to it.  It definitely exceeded my expectations.

Oscars ahahahahaha

Full disclosure: RCA once mounted a serious defence of Kevin Smith by pointing out that he hadn't anally raped an underage girl like Roman Polanski.

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Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather 

Oscars ahahahahaha

 

Full disclosure: RCA once mounted a serious defence of Kevin Smith by pointing out that he hadn't anally raped an underage girl like Roman Polanski.

I'm pretty sure Polanski didn't anally rape an underage girl...that would be disgusting...he just drugged her and fucked her....c'mon, the man who made The Tenant doesn't do anal...EVER

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Originally Posted by RCA 

I'm pretty sure Polanski didn't anally rape an underage girl...that would be disgusting...he just drugged her and fucked her....c'mon, the man who made The Tenant doesn't do anal...EVER

Fact: Anal Rape.
 

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Originally Posted by joeypants 

 

Fact: Anal Rape.
 

 

Oh man, he really IS a monster!!! 

hahaha...

Surely this means we've been wrong about Kevin Smith all along!

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Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather 

Surely this means we've been wrong about Kevin Smith all along!

I guess when you see the movie you can decide for yourself.  I don't know what it is though, I have this weird feeling that your mind is already made up.

Oh well, anyone else see this yet?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCA 


I guess when you see the movie you can decide for yourself.  I don't know what it is though, I have this weird feeling that your mind is already made up.

 

Funny - I get the exact same impression from you!

What is this with every obviously shit movie being singled out for Oscars by Chewers? Is this real or some inside joke I'm not privy to?

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Originally Posted by Cylon Baby 

What is this with every obviously shit movie being singled out for Oscars by Chewers? Is this real or some inside joke I'm not privy to?

Like?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCA 

 

While I don't think the film as a whole has any chance at an Oscar, I would not be surprised if Parks, Goodman(especially), and even Leo got some recognition for their work.  Their performances are that good.  Plus, they all seem to be relishing their parts and having a great time.  Another thing I loved about the flick is that no character is sacred.  Spoilers...people that you expect to live die early, people you expect to hate you start to see their side and feel bad for them, and even the "good guys" are colored with grey.  No one is safe in this flick and the ending....so good.

 

 

Like this
 

 Inherent in my question is a request for examples other than the one in this thread, the one you were responding to.  I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious what else you have in mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuddL 

 Inherent in my question is a request for examples other than the one in this thread, the one you were responding to.  I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious what else you have in mind.

A guy in the Scott Pilgrim thread seriously argued that the entire cast of Scott Pilgrim should receive an Oscar, that's one that comes to mind...

I think I remember that!

Watched this On Demand this evening.  Was alright, but for the long uninteresting full of exposition dialog scenes.  The scene where John Goodman is talking on the phone.  My god.  So fucking boring.  Yeah, I get it.  When it comes to the action of the film, it hits the same beat over and over again to the point where nothing is surprising. 

Agreed. As far as I'm concerned Smith's strengths have always been dialogue and character. RED STATE underwhelms on both counts. Frankly, Parks' Cooper is the only remotely well-drawn character (and I suspect that has more to do with the performance than the script) but even he is largely a cartoon. Just a vivid, fascinating one. Everyone else is one-note filler.

And that jokey Burn After Reading-esque ending is jarring as all hell, and criminally wastes the great scene leading into it. 

It's not a terrible film. It has interesting qualities and some neat ideas, but it feels undercooked, rushed and too small.

Just saw this On Demand. Honestly it wasn't bad but it was one of those films where if it was a first time indie filmmaker you would leave the theater thinking that you were curious to see what lies ahead for this guy. Sadly this filmmaker has 8 films under his belt. Still it was better than his last couple films and he had the balls to kill off pretty much every single sympathetic character while also making you dislike everyone involved. He deserves a little credit.....only a little though.

The ad on CHUD calls it "an action-thriller by @ThatKevinSmith."

Which makes me go "huh?" on two levels, (A) "action-thriller"? Wasn't this supposed to be a horror movie?, and (B) this has got to be the first time a director has been credited in an ad by his Twitter handle.

Never mind. Saw it. It really isn't a horror movie. Which is odd, because wasn't he talking it up as one forever?

I liked it. It's a very strange movie, and worth seeing simply because you just don't see movies that change every fifteen minutes so completely. It's a shame that everyone is so completely obsessed with Kevin Smith, because free of that, this would be an interesting curio. With that mammoth back story, it's just about impossible to view objectively.

Michael Parks is really good in it. Hell, a lot of the cast does good work. There's more dudes getting shot than The Departed. And the ending is pretty good. And it's got two people from Breaking Bad in it. Moderate pass, won't ever see it again.

I've ignored Kevin Smith's last two films so I was surprised that I actually liked this. It's a bit of mess, tonally inconsistent, really long scenes of exposition but despite all this the movie mostly works. It's better if you think of the movie as a really violent TV movie since has about the same type of pacing, especially Michael Parks' great but overlong monologue and the previously noted scene with Goodman. You can tell Smith had more ambitious plans for the movie, since this could've been his second Dogma or in fact is his second Dogma (I don't know what the consensus on Dogma is 'round these parts). Some scenes actually build a good deal of dread and are kind of disturbing. Basically the movie is kind of uncategorizable and that's kind of cool, I put in with The Devil's Rejects and The Last Circus, in that the movies are really hard to pin down and don't fit into any one genre. Oh, and I totally liked this more than The Last Circus which surprises me just as much as it surprises anyone else.

I am a big fan of Dogma, but I  was raised Catholic. That could have something to do with it. I even have a Buddy Christ in my car.

Wow, Kev made a movie without one dick or fart joke. Seriously flawed, but it's lean, mean, and kinda badass.

I'll agree though, the scenes with Goodman on the phone, zzzzzzzz.

I'm surprised to see anyone has anything positive to say about this absolutely pointless and inept piece of filmmaking beyond "Parks and Goodman were solid". Smith isn't telling a story here; he's launching a graceless and limp tirade against the Westboro Baptist Church. Intentions aren't a problem until they usurp the point of a narrative art form, which is what happens here. This isn't a film about three kids and an ATF agent being entangled in the machinations of a congregation of religious whackos, it's a film about how much Smith hates Fred Phelps. Everything about the art of storytelling is ignored so Smith can satisfy his own need to assail the WBC. He and I probably both despise Phelps and his ilk equally, but that's not enough to win me over.

This is an odd little movie. It switches main characters every twenty minutes, not allowing the audience to settle in or get to know anyone. The script suffers from telling and not showing. The entire scenario at the compound lacks any real motivation or sense.

Still, there are a few great performances here, mostly Parks and Goodman. It has balls, especially by having a faux-deus ex machina end the gunplay, but feels too preachy. Ironically. Smith is just too obvious here, and some of the dialogue (like Goodman, when describing the two dogs fighting over a turkey leg, calling it "discards") sounds like words no human being has ever said aloud in that context. Reminded me of Eliza Dushku saying "vitals" in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. 

I used to love Smith's movies, but now I realize they were aimed at 15 year olds. Red State feels like it's written by a 15 year old, but at least the camera work has improved.

I'll have a DVD review up for this by the end of tonight. I suspect Kevin Smith fans will not be happy.

Finally, someone taking a stand against Kevin Smith. About time, internet.

Hey look, it's Arjen the one-man "I don't even like Kevin Smith that much, honest!" Kevin Smith Defence Counsel.

Seriously dude. If people not liking Kevin Smith is old/mean/pathetic, then what does that make your need to point out how old/mean/pathetic it is? DVD Reviewer Man just hinted it wouldn't be a positive review, and you bound in here to get your "Shame on you Internet" act on.

Seriously.  Of all the people that get shit on you rush to Smith's defense?  Defend M. Night or somebody interesting. 

Oh, believe me, it's my least favorite thing I do online, which is really impressive. But I would add that I generally consider you (Andrew) to be a smart and interesting presence on the boards and Kevin Smith reduces you to a mouth-breathing AICN whine troll, and you're not the only one. I think it's fair to say that I hate Kevin Smith too at this point, mostly because my experience of his stuff is filtered almost entirely through the pettiest, most self-righteous, retarded, crybaby bullshit opinion pieces I've ever wasted my time with online, the kind of stuff that makes me feel like spending time in a movie message forum is a serious misuse of my life. Maybe DVD reviewer guy has really come up with a really cracking piece of original journalism on the man, but I'll never know, because I'm spent on these.

What does it make me? It fucking diminishes me, a lot, but not as much as it diminishes the fanboys pretending they're saying something meaningful or intelligent by slamming Kevin Smith. Seriously, it's worse than George Lucas at this point. Lucas just takes it, like a dying animal. Smith and the haters just scream inanities at each other in a howling cyclone of the worst shit ever. And also, fuck you for prompting me to respond at this length. I gypsy curse you.

I'm all gypsy-cursed out, man. I'm getting thinner and fatter depending on the day of the week, I keep turning into a wolf, I got lamias coming out my ass....do your worst!

I resent being called an AICN whine troll, really. I'd be happy to engage with Smith and his films. But you can't be critical any more without a platoon of Smodcast listeners damning his movies with faint praise and getting worked up about people being mean to their favourite guy. He's earnt the meanness. He's made a career out of dishing out meanness and snark and bitchery in his podcasts and talks, all the while hiding behind a shield of insincere self-deprecation that crumbles as soon as someone dares to legitimately criticise him. Why the people responding to him are the ones that always get the rough side of your tongue, as opposed to the serially underachieving manchild provoking such responses, is beyond me. I mean, I rarely write more than one line about Smith - this is probably the longest post I've made about the guy in two years or so - but I'm a troll because I respond to the silly fervour and protectiveness that the guy engenders in his fanbase? Fuck that. Sure, we can turn the other cheek - but why not do that over every damn subject raised in the frivolous world of the movie mesageboard? Why does this particular Cult Of Personality get a pass?

Honestly, it's more the ongoing contortions of his fans to justify his ever-worsening output that rile me. Smith is what he is at this point - it's when I see supposedly intelligent movie-watchers granting him such leeway because he's, like, one of us, dude that I feel compelled to respond.

The most frustrating thing about Red State is that, at its core, there is a nice idea for a horror movie. But nobody can argue that Smith fumbles almost from the get-go. There was a moment near the end where I thought he could slightly redeem himself and I actually started to get a little interested. But then it turned out to literally be a practical joke, and as the movie ends with a fellow prisoner telling the Preacher to shut the fuck up, I wanted to say the same thing to Smith.

I used to be a Smith defender.  I take him for what he is now.  He's a guy that makes movies.  His comedies are ok to good at best now, and Red State was ok, but forgettable in my opinion.  There were things I hated in Red State( I love parks, but his one speech just went on and on and on and on).  I think the pass on Smith is a pass most people give to a lot of directors.  He started with a bang.  I love clerks.  I thought it was high brow in concept, low brow in dialogue and fired on every cylinder for someone who did quite a bit of retail in my younger years.  Chasing Amy had heart, and enough humor to, as well as a spot on performance by Jason Lee.  Other than that, his other movies are very questionable.  He is a fun guy to hear talk, and I believe is a nerd with good intentions for the fan world, but he long ago became the thing he used to bad mouth, the studio.  He is almost a junior Lucas, trying to live off a brand he made, but that brand doesn't have the bank or longevity of Star Wars.  

He needs to stop talking about retiring, and make something good again.  I don't have any reason to hate the guy, but he has long ago fallen out of the scope of must watch, more to the point of I'll wait until video or streaming.

But he's not a guy that makes movies any more.  He's a middle aged fat guy who smokes pot all day and makes a living by podcasting about anything.  His response to failure in his career has been to roll over and give up instead of manning the fuck up and standing up for another round and improving.  I'm not trying to attack Kevin Smith to troll or for the fun of it, it's genuinely how I feel.  That's really my biggest problem with Smith these days.

How much of a failure is Smith though? He can still get a movie greenlit, he can get actors like Bruce Fucking Willis to star in his films, he still has his fans (retarded they maybe, but they must be still willing to drop some coin on Jay and Silent Bob "merchandise"), he gets crowds at his college appearances, he gets to hang out with Benn Affleck! What more could a man want?!

Seriously I think Smith's life is pretty sweet. The fact that we don't like his product shouldn't really matter to him anymore. What is hilarious yet sad is that it very clearly does matter to him.

How easily did Red State come together really though?  Every movie is a fight to put together but it took Smith AGES to get that thing together.  Hit Somebody is such a struggle that Sean William Scott jumped ship for a hockey goon comedy that could get its shit together.

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Originally Posted by Cylon Baby 

 

Seriously I think Smith's life is pretty sweet. The fact that we don't like his product shouldn't really matter to him anymore. What is hilarious yet sad is that it very clearly does matter to him.

Yeah, he's pretty much become an indie version of his idol George Lucas.

This might be Smith's most intriguing film, but I hesitate to call it good, and I was distracted by the seemingly dozens of recognizable character actors that had a couple of lines apiece. Parks, Goodman and Leo give committed performances, but it's constantly undermined by the lame "stoned guy trying to bring the truth to the sheeple" tone of Smith's writing.

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Originally Posted by Freeman 

How easily did Red State come together really though?  Every movie is a fight to put together but it took Smith AGES to get that thing together.

I think he started writing it about 5 or 6 years ago so not ages. He had some trouble getting funding but as soon as he got serious about it he found it.