Sucker Punch Post-Release Discussion

why be that guy? http://www.chud.com/44558/from-damons-desk-so-sucker-punch/

No, you were right Johnny, some post-release discussion was leaking into the pre-release thread. Good call.

My review. Made it under 2k.

http://www.chud.com/44594/review-sucker-punch/

Oh my god. Oh. My. God.

Saw it earlier, this is without question the worst movie I have ever seen. Hyperbole? I don't think so. As Damon said, My Year of Flops has that great secret success/failure/fiasco indicator of a flop or failure.

This isn't the "non-recurring phenomenon" baffling commercial smash bad (Wild Hogs), bad sequel bad (Batman & Robin, X-Men: The Last Stand), so-bad-it's-good bad (Hudson Hawk, Showgirls).

This is William Hurt in A History of Violence HOW DO YOU FUCK THAT UP? bad.

It's an excruciating exercise in a talented visionary letting his imagination go bananas and spinning wildly out of control. The action sequences are nonsensical. The narrative is devoid of even an ironic, unintentionally funny purpose.

What really drove it home for me, however, was how it questioned my doubts with the PG-13 rating and my morals. I'm someone who thinks Observe and Report is the best comedy of the past ten, maybe 15 years. I love so many mean-spirited films that have little to no regard for the human cause. Yet, the last 20 minutes of this movie become are so ugly, misogynistic, and full of nihilism (not to mention anti-climactic) that I was actually disgusted by it. By then, Snyder has no sense of irreverence in a film that needs it, and the whole thing is an unmitigated disaster.

Rarely, a movie is this cataclysmic across the board. Dune, Battlefield Earth, The Island of Dr. Moreau, Cool World, Toys, Howard the Duck...you know, the sort of movie that becomes a punchline, a movie pedigreed as a hit, which you go see and then wonder how the hell it got made.

If audiences can be sensible, Sucker Punch will become the next paramount watershed in this elite spectrum. Then again, I thought Alice in Wonderland would do that, but people were moronic enough to go see it. Fortunately, I don't think Scott Glenn has the same allure to moviegoers as Johnny Depp, and Sucker Punch is the only movie that would ever let me support such an idea.

"You will be unprepared," indeed.

Your avatar really goes well with your reaction.  This is just making me more excited to see the movie.  I'm sick.

Saw the early show. Been thinking about it, had a few drinks. So, there’s this old joke.

A backwater border guard (any two countries, doesn’t matter) began to notice this little old man happily crossing the border back and forth every day. Every morning, the little old man rides a bicycle across, and every afternoon he strolls back on his own two feet. Every time it’s a legal crossing; he’s stopped and papers checked every time, and everything’s in order. But every morning it’s a new bicycle, and every afternoon he returns on foot.

This goes on and on. The guard knows there’s something up, there has to be! And finally he pulls the old man aside. The guard confiscates the bicycle and orders it dismantled. The old man is taken away, his clothes removed and cavities searched as the guard and a mechanic strip the bicycle. They remove the seat; they remove the stuffing from the seat; they remove the tires and deflate them. They remove the chain and gears, and finally hacksaw the frame into a dozen pieces, but nothing comes from all the effort.

Exhausted and exasperated, the guard bellows at the old man, “I know you’re a smuggler! Every day, you bring something through and leave it behind! I KNOW you’re smuggling something – now, WHAT ARE YOU SMUGGLING!?”

The old man smiles and says, “Bicycles!”

I was rooting for this flick, really pulling for it. But I honestly believe that, after adding up 300 and Watchmen (never saw the DoD remake or children’s owl movie) and now Sucker Punch, Snyder isn’t actually intending to convey anything more than what is on the screen. He knows what he wants to see and he will figure out how to show it. He knows the language of cinema and what key visuals, stock character beats (including those of a CGI construct), and superlative editing can evoke in a moment, and he hangs his movies on those moments. I guarantee you the concept of this film came from the set pieces first and the narrative a distant second or tenth. It’s as deep as a French pancake. Cry "death of the author" all one likes, and most of the time I agree that that’s the valid approach. But I’m just about convinced at this point that any sub- brought to Snyder’s text is one’s own smack stuffed in the saddle.

He’s probably perfect to direct someone else’s Superman script.

And that’s not meant to be snarky, because I suspect Snyder’s also a great big square. I don’t see anything cynical or cashing-in or exploitative from him. This is genuinely what he’s into, what he likes, and what he thinks is awesome. (Probably says “awesome” a lot, but hey, so do I). He likes thinking these scenes up, loves making them appear, and works hard to do so. Even the music -- just as in Watchmen, it’s so ludicrously on the nose my eyes are still sore from roll-suppression. But I think he means every note just as much as any unironic hair metal power ballad means I Love You, Babe. I don’t think he has a much deeper sense of irony than a sarcastic line reading. He’s as sincere as Linus’s pumpkin patch, which I think is what keeps and will keep attracting hopeful defenders, and that’s understandable and not ignoble. But to get so insufferably pedantic as to invoke Faulkner, he writes not of the heart but of the glands. And all I’m out is $10 and a couple hours, and I’ll see his next flick without griping because I’m still curious about what he can do, but what I saw tonight was impeccable craftsmanship and frustratingly little art.

This movie is a total fucking mess.  It's not good, it's just not.  But, I don't know that it's fair to criticize the movie for being devoid of meaning.  Snyder is pretty clearly trying to say something about female empowerment (yes, seriously), even if he totally fumbles it through an overall lack of coherence.

I didn't mean to suggest it's devoid of meaning, just that any meaning intended is pretty explicitly stated -- hell, literally! in the bookending voice-over Snyder obviously felt necessary but probably wasn't (which was some flat-out bad poetry and worse prose, no matter how well-intended or -read).

ugh, the narration was awful.  And not only was the music on the nose, it was just plain bad.  I wonder if the use of shitty covers was a money thing.

Okay.  I loved this.  It was insane, incoherent, and loud.  It was about the male gaze, female oppression, and making shit blow up real cool.  But it wasn't stupid.  It's filled with subtext.  It's about women who like to fantasize about violence while pleasing men.  Maybe it sucks, but my money wasn't wasted.  Can't wait for the director's cut blu ray.   

The action scenes are simultaneously the best and worst scenes in the movie. While they certainly have visually stimulating set pieces filled with just about everything you could ever want in a Zack Snyder green screen fest, they barely serve the narrative. This combined with wooden acting, horrible cover songs(the pussified version of Where is My Mind is the worst) and that bad ending/narration make this a complete drag of a film. It desperately wants to be the action equivalent of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, but ends up falling closer to Showgirls more than anything. I don't think the man who added the sex scene to Watchmen is the one who should be directing material like this.

I'm really curious to how this film will fare the weekend and in the long-run. I can't believe the dance sequences were cut out. In a world where Glee and other shows try to turn every damn song into a narrative musical number, It would seem the logical thing to do would be to play these parts up, especially with the young audience. Kids these days love that kind of crap.

I actually dug most of the cover songs....especially Where Is My Mind?  Not as like songs I would like listen to....but I felt that they fit with the visuals really well.  I wish the dance scenes were included.  The movie feels incomplete without them.  We never see Baby Doll dance.  This is the biggest flaw in the film.  So many characters in the film are entranced by her dance, but we never see it.  It's a dimension of the film left unexplored.  This film had something to say, it was just confused as to how to say it.  In the day and age of corporate filmmaking and marketing departments deciding what gets greenlit or not - I appreciated the ambition, even if it fell short of the mark.  Snyder is a brilliant visualist but a confused storyteller.  As was said earlier in this thread, I can't wait for him to direct someone else's Superman script.

Quote:

Originally Posted by therewillbezodiac 

I actually dug most of the cover songs....especially Where Is My Mind?  Not as like songs I would like listen to....but I felt that they fit with the visuals really well.

So would of a bunch of other songs. Ones that haven't been in several other movies before. It's such an easy device. I was half-expecting Life is A Highway to kick in as the bus drove away at the end.
 

I stand firmly with the small, inevitably lonely crowd that thinks this is probably a high-quality script polish away from being something brilliant.

When I walked out of this, I wasn't thinking so much about Inception, or the genres that inspired Snyder, or even Snyder's past work, despite having watched all of them before I went to this.

I was thinking about this girl.

I was thinking about every instance of traditional geek heroes, and the role of women in them. I was thinking about how the film allows and encourages women to own them as they need to do with every aspect of their femininity. I don't think Snyder hits any of those nails on the head, but he at least points out there's rusty nails all over the place. He's at least raising questions that have been unspoken way too long. Important ones. And he does it as passionately and stylishly as he can possibly muster, at the expense of logic and cohesion.

As a film, it's objectively a deeply fractured piece of work. But lacking in ambition or heart, its not. It's just that he lacks the complete vocabulary to do his statements justice.

It's the kind of failure I could grow to love.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Clark 

I stand firmly with the small, inevitably lonely crowd that thinks this is probably a high-quality script polish away from being something brilliant.

 

You mean Sucker Punch had a script?  I could have sworn that Snyder shot it from something scrawled on the back of a cocktail napkin.

It's only my opinion, but Sucker Punch was simply a bad movie.  Not so bad it's good, bad.   Just awful, nearly unwatchable, bored to tears, bad.

I'm still not sure what to think of this flick. The first twenty minutes or so I felt very uncomfortable, because Baby Doll didn't say a word and yet the audience is being asked to care about the plight this girl is immediately thrust into without any buildup. Still, around the time Rocket and Sweetpea are introduced I relaxed a bit, as at least they were characters.

So I'm guessing here that while the brothel is what Baby Doll escapes in to deal with being in the mental institute (and apparently everything we're shown of the brothel happens in the "real life" of the mental institute), the action sequences are more than that. The idea of a dream-within-a-dream seemed too simplistic to me, and I think Snyder was going for some sort of Jungian collective unconscious. Like when Baby Doll dances, she is seeing through the eyes of those watching her, hence the kitchen sink approach of the action sequences. Psychic connection? Fuck if I know.

Had fun at the time, and the continuous shot on the train was incredible, but I may not revisit this until the director's cut. It's a mess, but a pretty mess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven 

So I'm guessing here that while the brothel is what Baby Doll escapes in to deal with being in the mental institute (and apparently everything we're shown of the brothel happens in the "real life" of the mental institute), the action sequences are more than that. The idea of a dream-within-a-dream seemed too simplistic to me, and I think Snyder was going for some sort of Jungian collective unconscious. Like when Baby Doll dances, she is seeing through the eyes of those watching her, hence the kitchen sink approach of the action sequences. Psychic connection? Fuck if I know.

 

We see the actual asylum first, only fleeting glimpses of what it's *really* like, and the brothel story only starts at the split second before High Roller drives the spike in. We're actually seeing the last week or so the way Babydoll is choosing to have permanently imprinted on herself. If she's going to "Paradise", she's going on her terms.

Same goes for the dances. She may be forced to dance/fight, but she and these other women do so on a personal level, to please themselves more than the person watching.

So the brothel setting was how she pictured the world around her during that week in the asylum (how she felt like she was being treated: men objectifying them like sex objects, being forced to perform), and the action sequences are how she empowered herself to survive that week. It ALMOST works, it's just such a jumbled narrative.

I understand, as well, that Snyder is dealing with the nature of stories. The curtain rising at the beginning lets us know that there really isn't any reality. Still, Scott Glenn's appearance at the end suggested that there was an element of reality to the so-called fantasies. Like the brothel was Baby Doll's perception of reality, but the action world was her actually escaping into another reality Alice in Wonderland-style. It's not a coincidence that she's looking into a mirror the first time she dances, like Alice through the looking glass.

I liked someone's suggestion that Scott Glenn is Baby Doll's father, or "father". Her ideal male, certainly, and the only one to commit a chivalrous act the entire movie.

Liked the movie, but wanted to LOVE it. Something felt off.

I'm also willing to bet money there's a ton of cutting room floor footage with Jon Hamm. The last moments make so much of his regret and dislike of his work. Probably won't make him any less of a prevailing threat, but enough to make him more complex, especially since we only see him once in the brothel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Tremaine 

 

You mean Sucker Punch had a script?  I could have sworn that Snyder shot it from something scrawled on the back of a cocktail napkin.

 

It's only my opinion, but Sucker Punch was simply a bad movie.  Not so bad it's good, bad.   Just awful, nearly unwatchable, bored to tears, bad.

I think Sucker Punch has shown that those of us who were Synder skeptics....who think he has a nice sense of visuals but is totally lacking when it comes to narrative structure and character development....were right.

I put him in the M Night Shymalan category:Let him direct but keep him away from working on the script.

When I heard that this film has a Inceptionesque plot structure dealing with fantasy and reality I thought "No way Synder can pull this off; he just does not have the skills".

"And who carries the power? It's you."

And with that final line in the movie the entire theatre erupted into laughter. My buddy who was with me was hating the movie the whole time and was so close to going back to his work. That made his night. We had drank before we saw it too! My buzz had worn off though early into the movie which disapointed me greatly. We also had the pleasure during the movie of this man behind us saying nothing other than "oh shit!" if something crazy happened. For example when the hot Asian broad got shot... "oh shit!" and the slutty 12 year old blonde main girl stabbed the guy "oh shit!". He did it a few other times. It was hilarious. Made the movie more enjoyable.

Ahhhh, what a piece of shit. HA!

Total mixed bag of an "insane asylum-fantasy brothel-nazi zombie-orc-dragon world-I, ROBOT-music video" movie.

The action scenes are technically well done, but they all have that shit brown tint to them and pretty much look the same.

The girls aren't horrible actors, but their characters aren't interesting at all.

The mystical self help narration babbling was the worst part of the movie. Thank God there wasn't much of it.

Funniest part was Gugino's POWERFUL EMOTIONAL MOMENT at the end. She goes from not really giving a shit about the lobotomy to being ENRAGED about her signature being forged.

*walks in after lobotomy*

Gugino: "Yeahhhhh I don't agree with this kind of thing, but....EH."

Cameo Hamm: "But you signed for this."

Gugino: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Holy Shit. Not too much to say that hasn't already been said. Say what you want about Snyder's visual talent, that much is valid. But holy shit is this a terrible, terrible film. 

I have to say though, I did "enjoy" it in a way. I actually found it to be fucking hilarious, especially the opening sequence which really climaxed for me when Stepfather and Blue have their insanely broad and mustache-twirling bit of haggling RIGHT FUCKING BEHIND HER. I mean... just... wow. There's no way to spin that. Whey they do the zoom-cuts into the will to highlight "my two daughters" and then cut to him maniacally chugging scotch and breaking shit... oh my. 

I think Superman or any number of other action-heavy subject matter could be very good in Snyder's hands... IF there was a really amazing screenwriter on board who could ALSO somehow be on set and shepherd Snyder through directing any dialog and dramatic material. And also someone who does any and all music choices. Between the fucking generic rock guitars in 300, the abominable music fumbling in Watchmen and this, the placement and choice of music is clearly not his strong suit. His instincts tip way, way too far towards the obvious and cheesy there. 

There were some really amazing action beats and shots, I have to admit. But that's not a surprise. But everything else was hilariously bungled here. WB must have cringed hard, hoping it somehow managed to bring in $$$. 

I'm glad I saw it, but "fiasco" is right. An epic fiasco to rival most others. 

On a sidenote: This was the first film I saw in our new "fake IMAX" theater and I have to say... I was impressed. I've badmouthed the idea of those in the past, but this one at least is worth the extra penny for the appropriate style of film. The sound in there was worth it alone. 

I prefer to think of Scott Glenn as a guy who leers around the windows of the institution spying on the girls, and that Sweet Pea is in for one rude awakening when they arrive at their destination. SEQUEL! 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 
but I'm going to drop seven bucks on this?  

 

I would feel so fucking guilty.

Well, it sounds like you're learning towards going and see it. You might as well give it a shot then. If nothing else, you can (probably) join the bitching that most other people are doing in this thread.

I mean, the movie sounds like such a disaster, I am almost developing the feeling that I should go and watch it myself, despite the fact that I've never cared for Snyder and I've only seen one of his films (I'm basing my opinion on Zach on seeing 300 and also listening to what people I trust say about his other films) before. If it offended HunterTarantino so much, that sort of thing piques my interest.

I just got back, and I haven't looked through the thread, but I will say this- the implication Snyder doesn't know what he's putting up there is absurd.  He knew exactly what he was doing.  Is it good?  I think everything but the end pretty much works as intended, although I'm not sure I'd call it good.

The main problem, as I see it, is that by the end of the second battle sequence, the film has pretty much shot its wad, idea-wise.  The rest of the film is just playing out the string.

Wow, I feel like I just got back from a netherworld version of The Wall. Whether or not that is a good thing I have yet to decide. I will say that some of the camp in this is glorious. I mean, come on, the moment Oscar Isaac says, "Nobody likes a snitch," with that fucking little mustache of his, I was this film's bitch. Oh, and the moment where Baby Doll is walking down the stairs as the temple crumbles behind her (with "Army of Me" blasting) is kind of breathtaking in its badassery.
 

I'm pretty much on the plus side on this.   It's kind of incoherent and I think Snyder's ambition exceeded his grasp, but it's eye candy of the highest caliber and never dull.   I can't imagine how the musical sequences would have fit into the film; they'll make an awesome DVD extra, but they were probably right to cut them.

When did Abbie Cornish turn into Maria Bello?   Damn near doppelganger!

Even the eye-candy and action wizardry becomes stale after the first 200 times. This is not a good movie. What Scott Pilgrim was to 16-bit video games, this is to the PS3-era, but with infinitely less heart, story and characters you care about.

Also, I fucking hate the way Snyder uses music in his movies. Someone should teach him to use instrumentals and not include the goddamn vocals. It grated me in Watchmen, and it's nigh intolerable here. Someone get him to listen to some John Murphy, for Chrissake's.

Also, did he repeat the throwing-leaking-gas-canister-into-crowd-of-villains-and-shooting-it gag from his Dawn of the Dead on purpose? Meh.

I can pretty much count with one hand all the beats or moments I liked in this.

Yes, I said "Also" twice in a row.

Saw it today, and found it pretty retarded throughout. It wouldn't have bugged me as much if it hadn't seemed like Snyder had something of import to say about female empowerment, the male gaze, etc. Felt like a frat-boy gamer took a Women's Studies class then decided to make a movie based on his C- term paper. Someone else more in tune with his sensibilities will have to explain whatever metaphor he was going for with the brothel/asylum/abuse thing as it hurt my brain trying to connect the dots. There were hints of Jung and "The Dance of Shiva" that never paid off. And the fact that we never saw Baby Doll shake her moneymaker remains baffling.

Every complex idea he fumbled in Watchmen was expanded upon here. He doesn't do sexy very well, nor does he understand music. Nu-metal versions of "White Rabbit"? "Tomorrow Never Knows"? "Search & Destroy"? Maybe I'm just old, but these sounded like shit to me, and like "Where Is My Mind", they are obvious, overused classics. The action scenes were kinetic, but kinda samey to my eyes. Orcs? Nazi zombies? Faceless robots? They all seemed like dull, lazy design choices. Action beats that were meant to be "cool" or "awesome" felt forced and obvious.

I call it a fiasco, but admit I may not have been the ideal audience for this. I stuck around for the end credits, and as a Ferry/Roxy Music fan wasn't entirely turned off by the rendition of "Love is the Drug". It suggested a more light-hearted musical version of the film that might have played with the campier notions hinted at throughout. Overall, too much PS3, not enough Russ Meyer.

I'm not exactly sure why we would see Baby Doll dance.  The fighting was the representation of the dance.  That was the point.  And the enemies were all faceless because even in her fantasies she's never "allowed" to kill a man.  Every opportunity she has to end the life of an actual miserable prick, she lets him off.  And then, even in her dreams, she kills things that stand in for violent masculinity, rather than men themselves.  (And could it be any more clear that the fights were not helping her than the fact that every one of the giant samurai she battled in the first sequence basically had one sort of erection or another?  Not to mention Scott Glenn's obviously empty "wisdom".)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bailey 

I'm not exactly sure why we would see Baby Doll dance.  

Because every character in the film kept referring to her raw talents. If the fight scenes represented her dance then that places director Snyder himself in the lead role, and on that count he failed to entrance or seduce me. 

The fact that some "deep" ideas were present doesn't discount that Snyder as a director/screenwriter fumbled them at every turn. That I have no clue as to what he was attempting to "say" by the end of the film is his fault, not mine. If this was his "Ode to the Dream-Life of a Stripper" then it should have been sexier, at least. Or more sincerely depressing. This was Pussycat Dolls playing World of Warcraft. No one wins that game.

I never made any declarations of quality.  The characters and story were completely perfunctory.  I'm just attempting to talk about what the movie was trying to convey.  It would do no good to show Baby Doll's dancing skill, because they made it clear it was just gyrating and being sexy.  And it was equally clear that this wasn't sexy to her.  That it was survival.  To her, the dancing was fighting.  That's why every time she started her dance, she looked depressed.  But she sold it well.  Unfortunately, from her shrink to her sage, on all "levels" she was being misguided by people who had her best interests at heart, but didn't realize they were just reinforcing the male dominated power structure.  The fighting did no good, and the dancing did no good.  In both cases, it was what the men wanted to see, and only reinforced that she was an object.  Her journey was completely bogus, from start to finish.

I guess it really comes to if lots of eye candy can make up for a lack of story telling skills and an inablity to deal with character or any complex ideas. For me, it does not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

The dances were cut out. All of the girls have a dance, but apparently the content of said dances would have gotten the film an R, so they were sacrificed. That's the story, anyway. It's been discussed in the pre-release.

I'm aware they filmed dances, and maybe in Snyder's original cut they add a different dimension.  I'm just saying that, as presented, it made total sense to not show Baby Doll dancing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb 

I guess it really comes to if lots of eye candy can make up for a lack of story telling skills and an inablity to deal with character or any complex ideas. For me, it does not.

 

To people who have seen this movie and understand the reference, does Sucker Punch remind you of Beyond the Valley of the Dolls? A positive answer will be all I need to see this thing.

Loved this. Also love that everyone hates it.

If you distill Armond White's review down past the purple prose, and my own past the... whatever... they are strikingly similar.

Then you fucked up!

I was ready for incoherent mess, I was ready for glorified music video, I was ready for exploitative schlock, but I have to admit, I wasn’t ready for dull. Unrelenting, top to bottom, “My God how long can this movie possibly last” boredom. Ludicrous I know, but I was ready to roll. I WAS READY TO ROLL DAMMIT! The bordello scenes have been discussed intelligently in both reviews, so I’ll just reiterate that any redeeming value they might have had was sucked dry by a stupid script and some of the worst dialogue I can remember in a recent film (and not even hammy, just utterly expositional). But who cares, I was 100% ready to ignore the plot entirely in favor of a Heavy Metal-esque series of stylized vignettes, but given the unlimited freedom of imagination and green-screen we get what? A train full of faceless I Robot knock-offs. Lord of the Rings. Big anime samurai. The only setting with a spark of ingenuity is the steampunk WWI, and even that is undercut by small, irritating design decisions (seriously, who thought it was a good idea to have the Germans die like fucking teakettles?). Plus everything’s drenched in the same grimy color-saturation.  It’s not like these set pieces are connected thematically in any significant way (hell, they’re barely connected to the plot at all), why not go completely over the top with them?  I’ll admit I was starting to tune-out by the end, but does he even noticeably change the character’s outfits from world to world? At the very least they seem to be using the same gun/sword combo in all of them.  

The choreography of some of the fights (the trenches and train especially) is impressive, but the enemies just seem hollow and disposable, and without establishing any sort of parameters for the fictional world, there’s no tension. Baby Doll seems pretty much indestructible as does the rest of the team, so the feeling is less fighting enemies than swatting gnats. Plus, most of the action boils down to Amber, Rocket, Blondie and Sweat Pea killing time until Baby Doll murders the current threat. There doesn’t even seem to be a point to them being there other than “whelp, we need somebody to fly the mech.”  I understand why Snyder is getting so much credit for aspiring to something deeper with this work, but as all those aspirations seem to have accomplished is shackling what could have been a quality B-Movie. given an R sensibility and some humor.

I have to say, this line from Vern's review might be on point.

Io9´s review was...something, to say the least

This movie is getting ripped to pieces a lot, but  maybe some people are reading far too much between the lines here.

From where I sit there's so much hatred for the film, the only way to stand out is to hyperbolize it or try and find a different, more meaningful reason to call it shit. Not much room for "eh, interesting failure," it seems, as a very bizarre curve has been fashioned for the geek reaction to this particular flick. It really does remind me of the reaction to Speed Racer, except the movie in question is ultimately not good, much less worth defending with much energy- which almost makes it more frustrating to watch the disproportionate vitriol and dismissal happen.

I think it's that on the surface, the film looked like it was going to pander to a very specific crowd, and not only are the more intelligent critics judging it as a failed film, but that specific crowd is pissed for not getting anything they wanted. That crowd just bitched about it with more blind fury than the rest.

Whatever. I'd love to talk more about the film, but I'm actually looking forward to a dollar theater second viewing to really solidify what works and doesn't Shit, I'm very slowly inching towards being really, really excited for the Blu.