LOIS LANE IS IN SUPERMAN, AND SHE’S AMY ADAMS - Page 2

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Originally Posted by joeypants 

And let me say that for all my love for Superman Returns, I "get" the complaints people level at it. I guess I just happen to find other aspects of Superman interesting other than his physical prowess. I'm also a huge mark for the Donner film(s) and was actually giddy when I heard Singer was going to ape that because I thought it fit Singer's sensibilities. But I wouldn't have complained with more physical action from him, that's for sure, and in that regard I'm interested to see what Snyder can bring to it.

 

I just meant the very specific "must punch in face" chorus that I've noticed swelling. Not "fight more people!" or "we need Metallo so I can see Superman dispatching robuts," but "I need to see him Super-punch someone, anyone, IN THE FACE."

I was a big fan of the film at first, I even like the kid, but as time passed I quickly realized that the film is way too beholden to what Donner did (seriously, Lex Luthor once again pursuing a cataclysmic real estate scheme is so goddamn boring) and that the key relationship in the film is not that engaging. 

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Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven 

 

But is most iconic necessary? Val Kilmer and Daniel Craig were both dirty blondes as Bruce Wayne and James Bond, and yet they both worked (to differing degrees). Superman Returns dealt with the iconography, attempting to grapple with the literal and existential need for Superman (for both the people of Metropolis, and the audience). This new movie shouldn't be afraid to mix things up a bit. Lose the red underwear, have a black Jimmy Olsen, but maintain the spirit of the source material.
 

 

I think Daniel Craig is a better example than Kilmer, a very good one actually. As for Superman's costume? That's a tough one. Because circus strongmen are no longer culturally relevant, few people "get" Superman's costume, but if you make a change to it like getting rid of the underwear, you end up with an off-balance design unless you find a happy medium somewhere. But who knows, I've seen plenty of attempts at redesigns by fans and so on that look okay.

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Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven 

 

But is most iconic necessary? Val Kilmer and Daniel Craig were both dirty blondes as Bruce Wayne and James Bond, and yet they both worked (to differing degrees). Superman Returns dealt with the iconography, attempting to grapple with the literal and existential need for Superman (for both the people of Metropolis, and the audience). This new movie shouldn't be afraid to mix things up a bit. Lose the red underwear, have a black Jimmy Olsen, but maintain the spirit of the source material.
 

 

I agree. They shouldn't feel constrained by the comics. Was just thinking in terms of Warner Bros selling the characters. Donald Glover for Jimmy Olsen!

I hate that the "heavy lifting" meme in regards to this film (and lazily perpetuated by Devin when he was at the site) has replaced any relevant discussion of the merits or faults of the themes in "Superman Returns." I am maybe the biggest "Returns" fan and I have participated in satisfying conversations with non-fans about the film, and nothing is less rewarding than that asinine critique, because it means you've brought your Superman baggage into what should be a standalone film, and because it means you favor empty spectacle over something inherently thoughtful. Most "Superman Returns" haters also brandish the film's rejection at the box office, as if that was some sort of grand statement on what the audience wants in a superhero picture.

As far as topics, themes and ideas, Superman is endlessly loaded, so a pursuit of what the character means is needed moreso than another knockout, drag-down superfight. Also, the superhero films we've seen so far tend to replicate a modicum of realism, to the point where they realize if Superman actually punched ANYONE in the face, whether they be from outer space or be a bank robber, he would TEAR THEIR FACE OFF.

Adams is a nice choice. Not sure how they'll get around her being LITERALLY a decade older than Cavill (hot!), but she's an actress with a forceful presence. One of the few actresses where you just can't go wrong.

Solid choice. Lets hope she isn't the only one who can act in the cast.

I think Kevin Costner and Diane Lane have both proven by now that they can indeed act.

This is great news!  Perfect casting.  Now if Snyder will promise to ditch the speed-ramping that ruins all the action scenes in his movies I will be fully on board.

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Originally Posted by Gabe T 

Adams is a nice choice. Not sure how they'll get around her being LITERALLY a decade older than Cavill (hot!), but she's an actress with a forceful presence. One of the few actresses where you just can't go wrong.

She doesn't look a decade older than him, for starters.  I think Lois being older than him works.  She should be a confident badass newswoman, not a twenty-something ingenue. 

I think the major question is...what rock song is he going use for the trailers?  Say what you will about Superman Returns (which I also really like) That first teaser trailer was amazing.

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Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick 

I think the major question is...what rock song is he going use for the trailers?  Say what you will about Superman Returns (which I also really like) That first teaser trailer was amazing.

It's Zack Snyder. Three Doors Down - "Kryptonite". The only way to go.
 

I seriously hope one of the first things they do is impose a very, very strict "no pop-music cues" rule. I know it won't happen though. Followed by a "you're fired, Tyler Bates" rule.

I know you have a hardon for Snyder, but I think criticising him for using pop music is a little unfair. Dawn of the Dead had one pop cue, 300 none, Watchmen used the pop music as shorthand for setting the time (like a lot of films do) and Sucker Punch was essentially built as a musical. As such his use of pop music has always had a purpose even if you've not liked his specific song selections. 

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Originally Posted by Spike Marshall 

I now you have a hardon for Snyder, but I think criticising him for using pop music is a little unfair. Dawn of the Dead had one pop cue, 300 none, Watchmen used the pop music as shorthand for setting the time (like a lot of films do) and Sucker Punch was essentially built as a musical. As such his use of pop music has always had a purpose even if you've not liked his specific song selections. 

It's just that he clearly has no idea at all how to wield that power. And really, I'm getting at his taste in music full-stop. I'm not always a stickler for historical accuracy, especially in something as stylized as 300. However, I absolutely loathed the generic rock-guitars throughout it and felt like it killed a lot of the vibe for me.

Sure, he doesn't always use it (pop-music) all over all his films. But WHEN he does, it is almost always abominable and horribly on the nose. I think it would serve the film well to just not to that and let an actual score do the work.

The choice of "I'm Your Boogie Man" during the Keane Act riots made Watchmen seem like it was one of those ruinous [Insert Genre] Movie parodies that we all like to insult. The use of slo-mo only empathized this feeling even more.

This is coming from a guy who found a lot to admire in the movie. That moment sure ain't one of them.

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Originally Posted by Walker 

The choice of "I'm Your Boogie Man" during the Keane Act riots made Watchmen seem like it was one of those ruinous [Insert Genre] Movie parodies that we all like to insult. The use of slo-mo only empathized this feeling even more.

 

This is coming from a guy who found a lot to admire in the movie. That moment sure ain't one of them.

I recall that scene being a tipping point for me, just everything about it. I'm not sure if I totally checked out at that point, but I was definitely packing my bags.

Laying 8 to 1 that Lex Luthor has Spin Doctors' "Jimmy Olsen's Blues" on his iPod.

I'm willing to accept criticism on his in-film song choices, even I entirely disagree, especially on Dawn of the Dead. There will be no bitching for his choice in trailer music, though. He's been flawless there.

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Originally Posted by joeypants 

I seriously hope one of the first things they do is impose a very, very strict "no pop-music cues" rule. I know it won't happen though. Followed by a "you're fired, Tyler Bates" rule.

MOST DEFINITELY.

One of the absolute worst original scores I've ever heard for a major release.

My big beef with Superman Returns?  How about a 'Thank You' note in the hospital?  How hard would that have been, Superman?

Kidding aside, I'm surprised and a little excited by this news.  It has sparked a debate within me, however, about how important I think Lois having dark hair is.  I love redheads.  But...  but...  Lois!  Her black hair seems about as iconic as the red cape.

Eh, I'll see it anyway.  I'm glad Adams has managed to expand her scope.  There was a time when I didn't think I'd ever be able to buy her as a character who wasn't wide-eyed and completely innocent. 

Did the internet just collectively lose their race memory of the existence of black hair dye? Jesus.....

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Originally Posted by Justin Clark 

Did the internet just collectively lose their race memory of the existence of black hair dye? Jesus.....

Sure seems like it doesn't it. Then again what would they complain about if they thought of something so simple.

 

Ironically, Rashida Jones, the person I felt would be great, but thought she wouldn't get it because of her age, is about a year younger than Adams. Of course, Jones is not a name so she was probably never in the running. Can't complain though, I didn't even think of Adams for this, but her casting has single-handedly gotten me interested in the project again.

I had been thinking over the weekend, "Well, Amy Adams is just great. Maybe this'll rub some Prep H on the collective internet butthurt about Sucker Punch."

I'd almost prefer the Sucker Punch hyperbole at this point.

MoonBaseNick, How about...The Crash Test Dummies, Superman Song?

I actually really liked the use of I'm Your Boogie Man with the slow-motion during the riot scene.  Hahahaha.  But only because I like how Snyder puts sequences together.  But that and his other music choices really really call attention to themselves without an equivalent amount of purpose.  Basically, the way I love the way Woo puts his sequences together in a bad movie where such blatant exercises of style really don't fit.

Very similar to the way I really like Snyder's action sequences; I just don't like the way they fit (or don't fit) into the film as a whole.

I think following up the amazing Phillip Glass score with that Muse song in the one Watchmen trailer was a very poor choice. The Smashing Pumpkins one was aces though. As was the NIN in the 300 trailer.

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Originally Posted by Justin Clark 

I'm willing to accept criticism on his in-film song choices, even I entirely disagree, especially on Dawn of the Dead. There will be no bitching for his choice in trailer music, though. He's been flawless there.

Mmm, I dunno. Snyder probably has a hella awful IPod song list, if his movies are anything to judge by. But sonically, I liked what he tried to do with the normally-terrible Tyler Bates on Watchmen. Each cue straddled a different genre, and many of them seemed be be homage to the other works of classical composers. His argument, with the score and pop songs, was that Watchmen existed in a world where that sort of music happened (the Vangelis Blade Runner beats, or Simon and Garfunkel doing The Graduate), but not within its own context. An interesting metatextual commentary on popular music that was far more interesting than the film itself.

As for pop music, I think it's weird how it's all but missing from every superhero film thus far, like these movies are trying to be too deadly serious. I mean, Spider-Man probably likes The Ramones, right? I wish they did more with Ghost Rider's Karen Carpenter obsession. And it would be a trip to see Green Lantern cranking out "Sunshine Superman" in the coming movie. Basically, these are pop culture icons, and what's wrong with borrowing from other signs of pop culture iconography? Would it kill Snyder's "Superman" to have a few Queen songs in there? Or maybe Muse?

Do we know for sure that Snyder is heavily involved in the trailers for his films?  It certainly feels like it, but I've never known for sure.

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

Do we know for sure that Snyder is heavily involved in the trailers for his films?  It certainly feels like it, but I've never known for sure.

The Phillip Glass/Koyaanisquatsi (sp?) in Watchmen's trailer says "yes."

So apparently Adams was one of the Kryptonite-spawned villains on Smallville in its first season. Small town, Hollywood.

Returns I really liked the first two times I watched it. Upon further viewings I saw it lacked quite a bit. I really liked some of the Donnerisms ( I adore the original film) and especially liked the sadness of the ending scene.

Bosworth was terrible and Spacey was dull. There was almost nothing really going on underneath the surface. Singer worked much better in the X-Men world.

I'm still baffled how much money it cost and how little action or adventure is on screen and the stalker Superman stuff it was just weak.

Punching things isn't on top of my list but a decent Lois Lane and a real super villain not named Luthor are.

Again I hope they get Bruce Timm and keep Nolan close to this one. Those guys know what they are doing.

If I had my wish John Williams would come back as composer there is not a better superhero theme.

I thought I liked the movie after the 3D IMAX showing.  Then I saw it on DVD and couldn't get far into it.  SO boring.

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Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather 

DAWN '04 is easily his most restrained film, and coincidentally* the one I can revisit the most without getting sidetracked by irritable moments. There's a genuinely great action director at work in DAWN, before he let his flourishes and attempts at thematic resonance overpower him.

 

*not coincidental at all
 

Yeah, that old James Caan quote might apply pretty well to Snyder: "People wonder why first time directors can make a brilliant picture, then suck on the next one. It's because they're a little terrified the first time, so they listen to all the experts around them."

DAWN OF THE DEAD '04 -- still my favorite Zack Snyder film by a considerable margin. (Though, I think WATCHMEN works, for the most part.)

Can we perpetuate one of those Tobe-Hooper-on-Poltergeist rumors and just credit Dawn of the Dead to James Gunn? Please?

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Originally Posted by Gabe T 

Can we perpetuate one of those Tobe-Hooper-on-Poltergeist rumors and just credit Dawn of the Dead to James Gunn? Please?

No, I don't think he was on set for that one.

Shhhhhh.

Yes he was.

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Originally Posted by Gabe T 

Can we perpetuate one of those Tobe-Hooper-on-Poltergeist rumors and just credit Dawn of the Dead to James Gunn? Please?

It wouldn't surprise me if we ended up hearing rumors of Nolan ghost directing this new Superman. True, or not.
 

People like to hate, you know.

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Originally Posted by Shunderson 

My big beef with Superman Returns?  How about a 'Thank You' note in the hospital?  How hard would that have been, Superman?

 

Kidding aside, I'm surprised and a little excited by this news.  It has sparked a debate within me, however, about how important I think Lois having dark hair is.  I love redheads.  But...  but...  Lois!  Her black hair seems about as iconic as the red cape.

 

Eh, I'll see it anyway.  I'm glad Adams has managed to expand her scope.  There was a time when I didn't think I'd ever be able to buy her as a character who wasn't wide-eyed and completely innocent. 

Lois was a redhead (Or at least auburn )for a long time post-crisis. Switched to black because of Teri Hatcher

This is a good site detailing how Lois has changed over the decades, she was black-haired for a long time until Crisis.  

http://www.redboots.net/loislane/sidecar.htm

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Originally Posted by Gabe T 

As for pop music, I think it's weird how it's all but missing from every superhero film thus far, like these movies are trying to be too deadly serious. I mean, Spider-Man probably likes The Ramones, right? I wish they did more with Ghost Rider's Karen Carpenter obsession. And it would be a trip to see Green Lantern cranking out "Sunshine Superman" in the coming movie. Basically, these are pop culture icons, and what's wrong with borrowing from other signs of pop culture iconography? Would it kill Snyder's "Superman" to have a few Queen songs in there? Or maybe Muse?

Raimi got the closest to greatness with this. Making Peter's idea of badass internall scored to horn-infused funk was just inspired, and probably the best dodge of the angst that usually comes with Symbiote/Venom stories.

I'm aware of the existence of hair dye.  The debate doesn't stand at the whether they *could* give Amy Adams black hair, but whether or not they *should.*  After all, she makes a very lovely redhead.  (I'm not going to assume that that is her natural hair color, after the whole Gwen Stacy/Emma Stone reveal.) 

And, yes, when I say that Lois' hair being black is iconic, I'm referring to the multiple decades that her hair color was, in fact, black, not the few years in the eighties when it wasn't.

At least this debate isn't as painful as Jessica Alba being cast as Sue Storm.  That choice was pretty ridiculous all the way around, and only made more painful when she pulled out the wig for the sequel. 

Holy shit, people. It's Amy Adams. She can shave her head and play it bald for all you should care, she's a fucking great actress.

Gah, geeks.

Well at least her skin isn't black, right? Right?

You're overreacting, Andrew. I'd hate to see what would happen to you if you tried reading threads on this subject in other places.

That said, anyone objecting to this casting decision in any way should be chemically castrated.

I avoid SuperHeroHype and its ilk like the plague. I shudder to think what the shitstorm about this casting looks like on less reserved sites.

The age-gap concerns are bizarre, too. Cavill doesn't look like some wet-behind-the-ears 22 year-old, and Adams looks closer to 30 than 40.

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Originally Posted by joeypants 

Well at least her skin isn't black, right? Right?

Lois Lane. She'll do anything to get the real story.

And yet, if Cavill was in his 40s, and Adams was in her mid 20s, the complaints would be nonexistent. But then, this years been a stunning lesson in the lack of imagination/progressivity in the nerd community.

What you're saying is fine, in theory, but if Cavill was in his 40's, the complaint would be that he's too old to play Superman, period, nevermind who is or who is not playing Lois Lane. A 40ish Superman in a franchise restarter is just a bad idea unless you plan going all Kingdom Come in a couple of years.

Edit: I want to add that several years ago, before SR, my ideal Lois was either Linda Fiorentino or Gina Gershon. I tend to imagine Lois as maybe a few years older than Superman.

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Originally Posted by joeypants 

Well at least her skin isn't black, right? Right?

See I've learned that life's a game, you sometimes win or lose and though I might be down right now, at least Lois Lanes not a Jew.