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Mission: Impossible II (2000)

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Two things strike me about this movie

 

1) This is totally Tom Cruise's "I'm totally not gay!" movie. I think the hardcore, extreme, vibe of the film is largely about Tom Cruise asserting his masculinity. It opens with him free climbing a mountain and the only function of the sequence seems to be to showcase the physical capabilities of Cruise. In particular his leap from one bit of mountain to another bit of mountain is just him showing off. He's increasingly physical in the movie, both in his action sequences and as a romantic lead. Some of the shot compositions with him and Thandie Newton are practically freudian. My favourite are the repeated shots of Cruise's face between Newton's cleavage whilst they're in the bath tub. 

 

2) This feels like John Woo almost throwing a fit at the reaction to his American movies and just going full on Woo. Not sure if the overt Wooism is all his doing or if Cruise was a fan and upped the Woo factor but this is a film where Woo makes everything as Wooish as possible. 

 

The movie itself feels like the final gasp of 90s action movies. Dougray Scott's introduction feels like a deleted sequence from the 'extreme sports' action films of the period like Drop Zone, whilst the rest of the film feels like an odd mash up of every cultural touchstone of the late mid-90s. I also love that Richard Roxbrugh is the main heavy. He's the sort of presence who usually requires a goon of his own and it kind of cements the Mission Impossible films habit of having weirdly underwhelming main villains. I like Voight and Hoffman as actors but they're never particularly menacing presences, but they're fucking legendary screen presences compared to Scott. He's supposed to be an anti-Ethan Hunt but all of his posturing just makes him feel utterly useless. 

 

Having said that I do kind of like the movie more than I should. It's kind of fun and trashy in its own little way, and it walks a fine line between outright pastiche and operatic excess. It's a film where Anthony Hopkins walks into scene, looks incredibly pissed off, and then delivers exposition. It's a film where the major action beat is Tom Cruise leaving the romantic lead to die. It's a movie where every other shot is in slow motion and it works really well within its own confines. The action sequences in particular are really well put together, there's a rhythm and energy to them which perhaps closest represents Woo's HK output. However it's all wrapped up in a film which is kind of exceedingly silly but played with a sombre straight face. 

post #2 of 26

I've always wondered if there was a director's cut of this somewhere. Some of the action scenes looked edited in a way to remove some of the violence. Not a lot, but enough to get the PG-13 rating.

 

post #3 of 26

You pretty much leave me with nothing to say.  Agreed on all accounts.  Especially about the way Woo puts his action sequences together.  There's absolutely nothing interesting going on in them, and yet I can't help but admire the way the sequences cut together like butter. 

 

I mentioned it in the Sucker Punch thread, but I couldn't feel any of that for Snyder's action sequences this time.  Usually, I like the way Snyder executes his action sequences even if they don't work in the context of his films as a whole (Watchmen in particular).  But I was left completely cold by Sucker Punch's gonzo action sequences. 

 

I wonder how I'd feel about MI2 if I saw it for the first time today.  Woo just knows how to push my action-loving buttons (except in Paycheck... lord) in terms of execution.  But with nothing of interest going on underneath, would I dig the final motorcycle chase as much as I did back then?  Granted, this was Woo's follow-up to Face/Off... a film I was obsessed with throughout high school.

 

But it's not just action.  I love the way Woo tries to milk some kind of tension out of Thandie Newton's first approach towards Dougray Scott (epic scarf grab!) when there's absolutely no tension there.  Slow-motion, zooms, pissy Cruise, horny Dougray, annoyed Rhames, Australian stereotype, flowing scarves, jealous Roxburgh, and Zimmer's garage rock score...  I just enjoy it so much on an irrational level.

 

I started out saying that I had nothing to say. 

 

Spike, in terms of this being the "Cruise NOT GAY!" movie, what did you think of the scene where Dougray snips Roxburgh's pinky from the rear?

 

OhioJones... in terms of the violence, the only stuff the movie seemed to be missing (in terms of Woo-action) was the actual impact of bullets and the squibs.

 

EDIT:  I should still be sure to mention... MI2 is a terrible movie.  A longer cut with more violence would not have helped make it much better.  The project was never meant to be good from the get-go.

 

I've always felt that this was the movie Tom Cruise did when he realized what he'd missed out on when he passed on The Matrix. 

post #4 of 26

The action scenes in the 3rd act are great. Good luck getting through the rest of the film in order to see them.

post #5 of 26

This movie is a piece of fucking shit and you have to know about its production to know why.

 

After DePalma's masterful original, Oliver Stone was tapped to do part 2. Now this was a fucking awesome idea but the project got pushed back repeatedly because Cruise was stuck on Eyes Wide Shut shooting 100 takes of himself walking through a door for Herr Kubrick. Then there were script issues and, IMHO, the fact that Stone probably wasn't prepared to do a PG-13 popcorn flick, U-Turn being about as "popcorn" as Stone gets. If given the chance to do an R-rated M:I flick, I have no doubt that Stone could have delivered a great sequel.

 

Eventually, Stone left and Cruise searched for a replacement Director which ended up being John Woo, no doubt after seeing Face/Off which had seen Woo realize his fullest potential in the American action market. But Kubrick continued to fuck about while they tinkered the script which had been developed by Paramount's Star Trek golden boys Brannon Braga and Ronald D. Moore while Robert Towne had been brought on to do the final polish as he had done on the first M:I.

 

If you look at the finished movie, you can tell that they just went out and rented every movie that involved spy's or people wearing masks not to mention the shout outs to Woo's own flicks. The cigar cutter was from Darkman. Cruise and Newton's playful car racing recalling the scene between Pierce Brosnan and Famke Jansen in Goldeneye. Cruise slapping a mask of himself on a bad guy who is then killed by another bad guy is yet another ripoff of Darkman. Cruise's line to Newton before jumping out the building cribbed from Last of the Mohican's. They even riffed on the vault break-in from part one with Cruise jumping into a building with wires attached to him while practically everyone in the fucking movie is shitting doves as they run or dive through the air and shoot at each other with a gun in each hand.

 

The movie was just so fucking boring not to mention that the decision to shoot in Sydney Australia was a mistake as it offered fuck all in the way of interesting environments, no offense to those who live in the former penal colony. Ving Rhames was fucking wasted in his role as Tom's Uncle, Newton proved that she was a zero charisma non-entity while I'm sure that Hopkin's got paid enough to keep awake for the five minutes it took to shoot his pointless cameo.

 

The only fucking good thing about Mission : Impossible 2 was the fact that shooting went on for soo long that Dougray Scott, the non-threatening loser posing as a villain, lost the role of Wolverine in X-Men to Hugh Jackman.

 

Fuck this movie.

post #6 of 26

You don't really need to know anything about the production's history in order to know that it's a shitty movie.  It IS a shitty movie.

post #7 of 26

Yes, but I think it's interesting to know WHY it was soo shitty despite all the money and talent involved.

post #8 of 26

BurnInHell pretty much nails it. The film is a hodge podge of unoriginal and terrible ideas shot with style.

 

Lets not forget Cruise pulled his Hard Target Van Damme by pulling Woo out of the editing room (Seems to be a bad trend with Woo).

 

A directors cut is something (like with Hard Target) I would love to see.

 

I think the film had potential but the villain never worked and as Burn said it spared us Dougray Ever After Scott from being Wolvie so thank god for that.

 

I like how you get Ethan Hunt superman on a bike in this film as well I laughed loudly in the theater watching this as Cruise is shooting guys from a motorcycle with a 9mm Beretta while the villains actually had HK machine guns and couldn't touch him.

 

Its a very stupid film but that one always made me laugh.

post #9 of 26
Thread Starter 

The thing about Mission Impossible 2 and 3 is that they kind of reveal an inner dorkiness about Tom Cruise. Mission Impossible 2 almost feels like Cruise forcing Woo to do a mixtape of all his favourite films. As everyone pointed out there are moments that feel like direct references to other movies, but even the tonality and atmosphere feels like a homage at points. It's like Cruise is trying to homage all his favourite movies without realising they won't really work well together. 

 

Dougray Scott is fucking terrible in the film, but I kind of love how his script is almost a pisstake of the entire film. His bored description of how Hunte will access the virus and just general fourth wall breaking are kind of hilarious. I also love that his scheme ultimately makes no sense whatsoever.

 

"We shall use this money to buy shares in your company..then when the share price increases we'll sell those and buy a controlling share in your company, despite the fact that if the stock prices rise then we'll still be only able to buy the same percentage of the company..."

post #10 of 26

Have you ever tried to listen to Woo's commentary?

 

"Hello, my name is John Woo... I directed Mission Impossible Twoooo... I hate evil and violence.  I love peace."  

 

Hehehe, I love John Woo.  I was so happy to have him come back with Red Cliff.  The very techniques that make Cruise look like a dork putting too much effort into looking cool, make his Red Cliff cast look like gods.

 

I also find it hilarious how the mano-a-mano fight at the end has Cruise bronzed up while Dougray is left to look pasty and evil.

post #11 of 26
Thread Starter 

I also love Cruise's insanely impractical martial art which kind of combines Taekwondo and Jujitsu. It's hilarious because each and every move ends up with him landing on his back or with his back to the enemy. When Donnie Yen mixes martial arts he beats people to death with MMA punches, when Cruise mixes Martial Arts he just does a lot of spinning. He's essentially the Ralph Wiggum of action stars in II.

post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post

He's essentially the Ralph Wiggum of action stars in II.

 

Hahahhaah.  Mission: Unpossible Too?

 

post #13 of 26

The most irritating thing is the fact that Cruise needs Scott to have a gun on him to justify killing him. You know what I mean, always at the last second, the bag guy has to pull a gun on the hero so that the hero can kill the bad guy without looking like a cold blooded murderer. It's soo fucking stupid. Scot had a knife about 3mm from Cruise's eyebal and, yet, Cruise can't just walk over and break his neck and fill the empty void in his soul, at having taken a life, by stuffing his face at a buffet like then rest of us do. Anyway, where was I? Oh yeah, this movie blows.  

post #14 of 26

"HUNT!!"

 

(gasp! a gun!)

 

"YOOOOOU SHOOOOULDA KIWWWED MEE!!!"

 

(tense exchange of glances between Cruise and Rhames)

 

"Uh HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"

 

(oh no, what will Ethan do now!?)

 

"Uh HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"

 

(look a gun perfectly at his feet!)

 

"Uh HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"

 

(Cruise winks!)

 

"Uh HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"

 

(VIRUS TOSS! GUN KICK! WIGGUM SPIN!)

 

(and FINALLY Dougray shoots while smiling like a doofus... and misses...)

 

Poor Dougray.  When you're the villain in the Tom Cruise Action Spectacular, the decks are completely stacked against you.

 

 

Burnin, that's why Taken was such a fun movie.  Liam Neeson didn't give a shit about being the good guy.  He will shoot a completely defenseless badman if he wants to.  Hahahahah

post #15 of 26

Beautiful shot of Sydney at the end, and that's about it.

post #16 of 26

This movie got a little bit of extra value in the past decade from the rise in the use of digital doubles, blue screen, CG in major action sequences.  Similar to the way Die Hard 3 gets so much character from location shooting compared to the slick, sterile Die Hard 4... MI2's location-shot motorcycle sequence just feels so much better than the motorcycle sequence in Knight and Day.

post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Burnin, that's why Taken was such a fun movie.  Liam Neeson didn't give a shit about being the good guy.  He will shoot a completely defenseless badman if he wants to.  Hahahahah



I agree. I LOVED Taken because Liam didn't fuck around. Just wasted everyone in his way.

post #18 of 26
Thread Starter 

Also, whilst I'm a fan of Hans Zimmer his score is definitely the weakest of all three movies. In fact I think Elfman's score is probably my favourite of all three of them. I just kind of hate the really heavy, Limp Bizkit version of the Mission Impossible theme that Zimmer keeps coming back to. I do however kind of like how insanely out of place the music is in the sequence where Thandie Newton injects herself with the superflu and Cruise leaves her to die. 

post #19 of 26

Why is there so much negativity about...MI:2?  Mission Impossible 2, is the...Only good MI Film.  The original is by far the...Worst in the series, with Part 3, suffering from a very weak villain.  MI:2, is one of the only films starring Tom Cruise that I enjoy.  Top Gun was solid, but not even in the same league as MI:2!

post #20 of 26

What makes Dougray Scott's villain superior to Phillip Seymore Hoffman's villain for you, Duke?  Is it that he has more screentime and more extended fight sequences against Cruise?

post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post

I do however kind of like how insanely out of place the music is in the sequence where Thandie Newton injects herself with the superflu and Cruise leaves her to die. 


It's as if Zimmer had Lisa Gerrard around for the Gladiator recording sessions and he kept her around while he was working on MI2.  Makes sense.  Both movies came out in the same year.

 

post #22 of 26
Thread Starter 

I watched the entire trilogy with some Chud guys on Saturday and we started to count the number of times certain tropes came up:

 

Tom Cruise Running - 7 times across three movies

Tom Cruise suspended inches above a surface - 4 times across three movies 

Tom Cruise Flipping and swishing around - 32 times across the second and third movie

Face Mask reveals - 11 times across three films, with only two of them occuring in the first

Weird Gladiator music cue - 4 times in Mission Impossible 2

post #23 of 26

Just because it's fun.  Cruise and Crooze laughing simultaneously still cracks me up.

 

post #24 of 26
Ethan grows a foot by simply putting on a mask of the bad guy. I mean, you can use lifts, but a whole foot is a jump in logic even Morpheus couldn't make.
post #25 of 26

mcnooj82, Well, I feel that Dougray Scott is a far more...EEEEEEEvil Villain, than PSH!  You are right about the fights being far better in MI:2 than 3. Tom Cruise's Leading Lady in MI:2, Thandie Newton, is a much better fit than Michelle Monotone,...Er, Monahan, in MI:3.  The action, by director...John Woo is, Awesome!  

post #26 of 26

I remember quoting "Hunt that bastard...doon!" frequently during that summer. That's the most memorable aspect of the movie for me.


 

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