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SUPER Post-Release Discussion

post #1 of 48
Thread Starter 

In limited release now so we can discuss?

 

Short take, I really liked it but there are some flaws. Everyone's great in the film. Happy to see Rainn Wilson be great in the lead, as I am not a fan of The Office and never got why Dwight Schrute was such a pop icon. Ellen Page kinda runs away with the film though. Much darker and more rough around the edges than Kick-Ass. More like a personal film about loneliness and divorce than deconstruction of the superhero genre. (That last sentence is totally cribbed from Devin's pretty spot-on review.) In that sense I found the film to be kinda brave and emotionally raw. You're laughing uncomfortably at how psychotic it is, not at how cool or risque it seems. No one explodes in a giant industrial microwave. Mostly it's just a lot of craniums being split in half. Plot-wise it sticks to the guns of the initial premise of Kick-Ass before the actual superheroes (and yeah, I mean Big Daddy and Hit Girl) show up and usurp that film. There's no Hong Kong stunt team choreographing an amazingly balletic fight sequence at the end, but there are exploding bodies thankfully. There are some more great moments as Wilson's Crimson Bolt makes his way through the carnage even if, again like Kick-Ass, the resolution ultimately is problematic. I don't know why it is with movies like this, but I always want the lead to die even if he ends up killing all the bad guys. That's the kind of ending this film earns. And I don't think it's because I'm Korean that I'm clamoring for something more bittersweet in this case.

post #2 of 48

I thought this was a reasonable cocktail of Kick-Ass and Taxi Driver. Not as fun, or as polished, as Slither, but it had some good ideas. There's a middle portion that drags FOREVER and feels repetitive, and ultimately I liked about fifty minutes to an hour of this movie. But Ellen Page is gold in every scene, it's a really funny, sick performance.

post #3 of 48
Thread Starter 

Yeah, I kinda think Travis Bickle should've died at the end of Taxi Driver also. Super started to lose me during the 2nd montage set to music.

post #4 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post

Yeah, I kinda think Travis Bickle should've died at the end of Taxi Driver also.


 

Really?  Really?


This is the second misunderstanding of Taxi Driver I've read on the boards this week.  Do people not understand the point of Taxi Driver?  Because without the ending, the movie wouldn't have the same punch. 

post #5 of 48
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post


Really?  Really?


This is the second misunderstanding of Taxi Driver I've read on the boards this week.  Do people not understand the point of Taxi Driver?  Because without the ending, the movie wouldn't have the same punch. 


 

 

Forgive me because it's been awhile since I've seen it (over 10 years) but at the time I didn't think the story's effectiveness really hinged on whether or not he lives or dies.  However, before I really throw down on the subject (in the proper thread) I know I need to see it again. Speaking of which, it just got re-released on blu....[/derail]

 

Usually when I feel that the lead protagonist should've been fatally wounded or died, it's because their story is pretty much over. In the case of Super, I feel more confident in saying the ending is problematic. Rainn Wilson's character finds a measure of sad peace but I'm not sure if it's entirely earned.

post #6 of 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post

Usually when I feel that the lead protagonist should've been fatally wounded or died, it's because their story is pretty much over. In the case of Super, I feel more confident in saying the ending is problematic. Rainn Wilson's character finds a measure of sad peace but I'm not sure if it's entirely earned.


I thought the ending was completely earned.  Based on what I've read regarding Super, this was a very personal project for Gunn, and I think the way Frank finds himself at peace at the end is very much reflecting the way Gunn himself came to terms with his own divorce.  Obviously I can't say that with any certainty, but Frank's melancholy ending seems to come from Gunn accepting and understanding there are some hard truths in real life as opposed to the black and white fantasy life that Frank lives out as The Crimson Bolt; primarily that the hero doesn't necessarily get the girl.  It struck me as raw and honest and I liked it a lot.

 

I thought the movie was fantastic.  Its crazy and funny and twisted and emotionally unflinching.  And holy shit Ellen Page.  I was in awe of the places that she was willing to go with that character.  Great stuff.

post #7 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post

 


 

 

Forgive me because it's been awhile since I've seen it (over 10 years) but at the time I didn't think the story's effectiveness really hinged on whether or not he lives or dies.  However, before I really throw down on the subject (in the proper thread) I know I need to see it again. Speaking of which, it just got re-released on blu....[/derail]

 

Usually when I feel that the lead protagonist should've been fatally wounded or died, it's because their story is pretty much over. In the case of Super, I feel more confident in saying the ending is problematic. Rainn Wilson's character finds a measure of sad peace but I'm not sure if it's entirely earned.



Oh, no, it very much hinges on him living. The disturbing irony and still looming threat are part of the whole experience. On subject, I'm still waiting for this film to show up in my neck of the woods.

 

post #8 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy dunlop View Post

  And holy shit Ellen Page.  I was in awe of the places that she was willing to go with that character.  Great stuff.



I'm not sure I'll ever get my head clear of her moaning, "I'm so gooshy!"  

 

 

 

post #9 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy dunlop View Post

Quote:


I thought the ending was completely earned.  Based on what I've read regarding Super, this was a very personal project for Gunn, and I think the way Frank finds himself at peace at the end is very much reflecting the way Gunn himself came to terms with his own divorce.  Obviously I can't say that with any certainty, but Frank's melancholy ending seems to come from Gunn accepting and understanding there are some hard truths in real life as opposed to the black and white fantasy life that Frank lives out as The Crimson Bolt; primarily that the hero doesn't necessarily get the girl.  It struck me as raw and honest and I liked it a lot.

 

 

All that background stuff about Gunn is interesting but it doesn't change my reading of the film. I can't judge the movie based on the story of the director's life. It's a part of the discussion, fer sure but should it affect my reading of the film? Probably not. My point is that even though the movie's got a romantic element it's still very unsentimental. There's no hope of them ever getting back together no matter what. He's too far gone and it's clear she'll never be happy with him. I like that in the end he realizes that and then it becomes about just saving her life. But he doesn't need to live through the whole ordeal to succeed in saving her. I don't need/want all the stuff with her future family. Having a sentimental ending where he stops going all vigilante, starts drawing a ton of pictures of her new family and gets a bunny is unnecessary. Perhaps a more accurate word would be self-indulgent? I'm not trying to sound like a dick for him using this film as catharsis. But as an audience member, as soon as he saves her life, his heroic deed of sacrifice is done.

 

Back tot he Taxi Driver debate: Just reading through this thread and the reviews for the blu-ray has me incredibly itchy to see it as an adult.

post #10 of 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post

All that background stuff about Gunn is interesting but it doesn't change my reading of the film. I can't judge the movie based on the story of the director's life. It's a part of the discussion, fer sure but should it affect my reading of the film? Probably not. My point is that even though the movie's got a romantic element it's still very unsentimental. There's no hope of them ever getting back together no matter what. He's too far gone and it's clear she'll never be happy with him.


I think that's also part of the point though.  Frank was never right for Sarah in the first place - he happened to come along when she was in a very fragile and very vulnerable state of mind.  The movie is very upfront about this.  Its not as though they were happily married before Kevin Bacon sleazed his way into the picture.  The crux of Frank's catharsis has nothing to do with romance, even though initially that illusion of romance may have been what gave him his drive.  Ultimately, its about doing the right thing and fighting the good fight, and Frank's peace of mind comes from knowing that he stood up for something and did indeed fight the good fight.  I think its very sentimental - he remembers the good times with Sarah and still cares for her, but also understands why that relationship would not have worked.  I do see where you're coming from - Gunn is really pouring it on at the end, and you could make the argument that Frank's post-superhero life is even more creepy and sad than it was before (especially with all those doodles on his wall), but again, I'm willing to accept it just because its so earnest and feels 'right' with the very personal story Gunn is telling.

 

Also, out of curiosity, are you inclined to keep the artist and the art separate across all mediums?  I find that especially with music, taking a peek into the life of the musician often adds depth and meaning to the music and lyrics that may not have been there before.  That mentality bleeds over to how I approach film at times. 

post #11 of 48

Bickle surviving to become the terrifying media darling that he is at the close of TAXI DRIVER is exactly the point. It's not just about him, it's about the sick society that condemns and canonises the Travis Bickles of the world in the same breath.

post #12 of 48

That.

post #13 of 48

My favorite movie of 2011, so far. If it weren't 5:00 a.m. I'd go into more detail (and I know I tend to use that excuse a lot), but suffice to say I totally loved it. There's so much going on in this movie, both on a superficial level and under the surface, that it's fascinating. And the performances were a revelation all around. Loved it, loved it, loved it.

post #14 of 48

Just so everyone knows this hit OnDemand today. So fucking worth the 7 bucks. 

post #15 of 48
Thread Starter 

Y'all posting about TAXI DRIVER in this thread will be happy to know that amazon is sending me the new 4K transfer blu-ray hopefully by Friday. At that point I will be able to agree with you. Heheh. But seriously, everyone's made good points. I just need to see the movie again for me to speak intelligently about it either way. I'm pretty sure the last time I saw the film was in high school which was around 15 years ago. (Ugh, I'm old.)

post #16 of 48

Any thoughts on

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

what Frank does with Libby's body?

 

 

(Incidentally, I'd been spoiled for that by

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

the first paragraph of Ebert's review

 

but had managed to forget all about it.)

post #17 of 48

I love this movie so much that i'd fuck it...

 

-Kevin Bacon hasn't been this fun to watch in a while.

-Ellen Page needs to be cast as Harley Quinn like yesterday.

 

Faults...

 

though not explicit.. what happeded to Liv Tyler in the mansion was a little much

post #18 of 48

Oh and Hey,  I haven't been on these forums for 6 months... What happened to the edit feature?

post #19 of 48

View Post

 

Originally Posted by Gambers View Post

I love this movie so much that i'd fuck it...

 

-Kevin Bacon hasn't been this fun to watch in a while.

-Ellen Page needs to be cast as Harley Quinn like yesterday.

 

Faults...

 

though not explicit.. what happened to Liv Tyler in the mansion was a little much



 

post #20 of 48
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post

Any thoughts on

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

what Frank does with Libby's body?

 

 

(Incidentally, I'd been spoiled for that by

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

the first paragraph of Ebert's review

 

but had managed to forget all about it.)



Well, technically Frank isn't the one that does that to Libby but he allows her to put herself in danger. It's a awfully sad stomach-dropping scene and sets the stakes for his subsequent rampage. Also, it would have earned Frank his own death scene after rescuing Liv Tyler should the movie have chosen to go in that direction.

 

Without going into too much derailing towards Taxi Driver, I have no problem with Travis living if it weren't for that neck wound that should've killed him (if you don't agree with me, then take a look at some of the other Taxi Driver threads where people think that the whole epilogue is a death dream.) As a kid in high school who demanded realism from non-fantastical work, that strained a certain amount of credibility. Thematically I love what they did in the end, and besides the very fact that he lives and continues on to vigilante another day, they could have kept the whole society applauds Bickle (and even Betsy reconsidering this psycho she knows personally) and killed him off without losing that stuff. But it wouldn't have had that eerie personal quality to the ending, so there is that.

 

post #21 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post

Well, technically Frank isn't the one that does that to Libby but he allows her to put herself in danger. It's a awfully sad stomach-dropping scene and sets the stakes for his subsequent rampage. Also, it would have earned Frank his own death scene after rescuing Liv Tyler should the movie have chosen to go in that direction.

 



I thought Martin was talking about this:

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

And on that note, what do people think about this?

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1512235/board/nest/181432371

 
The people in the drawings all had big hands.

 

 

post #22 of 48

I think we can do without spoiler tags at this point - its a post release thread and the movie has been in theaters and on-demand for weeks.

 

Good catch on the flower garden.  For some reason I completely missed that.  I remember Frank rolling Libby's body into the back of his truck at the end, but that was it.  I assume he gave her a proper burial, and the flower garden, I guess, indicates that he did.

post #23 of 48

Oh lord... Ellen Page in this thing.  She's uncomfortably amazing.


Very impressed with Wilson as well. 

Raw.  So very raw. 

post #24 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambers View Post

-Kevin Bacon hasn't been this fun to watch in a while.

-Ellen Page needs to be cast as Harley Quinn like yesterday.

 

Faults...

 

though not explicit.. what happeded to Liv Tyler in the mansion was a little much


I actually thought the stuff that happened with Tyler was in keeping with the rest of the film. That's the absolute lowest point for her character so of course she would be finding out the hard way exactly how bad someone like Bacon's sleazy jerk would be for her. I don't just think it was the right place for her to be from a script perspective; in this film, it would have felt like a director chickening out to have anything else happen, especially with all the escalation and "in over your head" calamity going on in and around the mansion at the time.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Very impressed with Wilson as well. 

Raw.  So very raw. 


Totally, mate. I thought he was great throughout as well, but the early stuff with him confused and hurt and just flat-out alone was stand-out good. I was actually moved by how well Wilson played "broken shell of a man." I'm thinking of the scene with him crying as he prayed, in particular.

 

post #25 of 48

Wow, this was a lot more serious than I thought it would be.  Great though.  Page was great.  And yeah, Wilson in this... man.
 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Bear View Post

I'm thinking of the scene with him crying as he prayed, in particular.

 

Yeah, I was still kind of expecting it to be kind of goofy, but then this scene hit.
 

 

post #26 of 48

Wow.  I was expecting to like his, but I flatout LOVED it.  There's not much more I can add to what has already been said above.  It is nice to see "Kirk" from Gilmore Girls getting some genre work though.  Anyway....

 

- Any opinions on the Slither-esque/Lovecraftian tentacle vision?

- Was that Gunn as "Demonwill" in the awesomely cheesy Holy Avenger videos?

 

 

Also, it had better not be another four or five years before James Gunn makes another movie!

post #27 of 48

Does the DVD have anything interesting on it? I found it weird that Linda Cardellini had that one completely thankless scene.

post #28 of 48

There's a little "Making of" featurette, a deleted scene, etc.  I was distracted a bit while watching it, but I'm pretty sure Gunn said that Linda dropped by the set and he gave her a walk-on role.

post #29 of 48

Just watched this on DVD. I pretty much loved it. Haven't been able to see a lot this year, but this will be in my Top 10 (if I see that many new releases this year).

 

My only complaint was the uselessness of the Gregg Henry storyline...I ate this man's bit up in Slither and he was underutilized in it and even moreso in this film. Hope that Gunn continues to use him in the future and gives him a little more to work with next time. Same goes for Rooker too I guess. He didn't do a whole lot either, but it was good to see him.

 

I IMDB'd Gregg Henry and it looks like he will be playing a Fox News style AM radio pundit in the near future. Should be a good role. SUBMIT

post #30 of 48

I'll see your "keep Henry and Rooker in the James Gunn stable" and raise you a "and Nathan Fillion too!".  Let's just hope he can make another movie soon!

post #31 of 48

I got the bluray with a bonus disc for a penny thanks to reward zone points! I loved this. Ellen Page is terrifying! 

post #32 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken View Post

I'll see your "keep Henry and Rooker in the James Gunn stable" and raise you a "and Nathan Fillion too!".  Let's just hope he can make another movie soon!


Yes, it would break my cold black hear if the only thing we saw from Nathan Fillion from here on out was Castle.

 

post #33 of 48

Absolutely.  I like Fillion a lot, but I haven't found much to like about Castle.  I'm glad he's finally found some success, but it's just not my cup of tea it seems.

post #34 of 48

How awesome was Rainn Wilson's final speech to Kevin Bacon? I actually felt like I was watching a good version of The Punisher there for a second.

post #35 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navidson View Post

How awesome was Rainn Wilson's final speech to Kevin Bacon? I actually felt like I was watching a good version of The Punisher there for a second.


Absolutely one of my favorite scenes!

 

"YOU DON'T BUTT IN LINE!  YOU DON'T DEAL DRUGS!  YOU DON'T MOLEST CHILDREN!"

 

post #36 of 48

" The rules were set a long time ago! They don't change! "

post #37 of 48

Yeah I loved this. Shocked that I did as I just didn't expect much from this. Performances were all great.

 

Page though good god. I don't have the words.

post #38 of 48

Page in this movie gives the kind of performance that would be nominated for an Oscar if the Oscars were smart, cool, relevant, or interesting. She's so far away from what I thought she was capable of that it's kind of amazing. Plus, her character is a pitch-perfect deconstruction of the mindset of the obsessive superhero fan (admit it, you know at least one nerd who acts just like Libby, only without the murdering (as far as you know)).
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken View Post

- Any opinions on the Slither-esque/Lovecraftian tentacle vision?

 

My favorite part!

post #39 of 48

German-Super-Blu-ray-550x773.jpg

Nifty.

post #40 of 48

Just saw this, and it was terrific. A big, messy, violent movie with a lot of humor and a surprising amount of drama. This takes a lot of risks with tone and the plot never goes where you think it's going.

 

I didn't buy Page's character at first, but as the film progresses I love where they go with her. This is Wilson's show though, and he gives a hell of a performance.

post #41 of 48

Wow, great movie. The ending really got to me, wasn't expecting that from a James Gunn film. He seems to be very good with actors. I love how Page, Bacon, and Wilson are far from unknowns and all have successful careers, yet they're still 101% committed to what is ostensibly this silly little no budget dark comedy. I thought Hard Candy was my fave from her, but Page is SO good in this. Adorable, funny, psychotic, tragic. Christ. The scene where she was trying to impress Wilson with her athletic ability absolutely killed me.

 

SHUT UP, CRIME!

post #42 of 48

If it takes Gunn another 5 or 6 years to get another film off the ground again, I'll fucking cry.

post #43 of 48

Finally gotten around to watching this after all that footage of Gunn's Galaxy of the Guardian premiered on the internet.

 

I liked it, though it felt like it was covering ground that films and comics like Kick-Ass already covered years ago. Even so, Wilson is pretty great in this and Page..yeah, I think you guys said all there needs to be said about her performance.

 

On the ending: I do agree that I don't think it's quite earned. Frank might not be Travis Bickle, but it's made quite clear that he's a broken man who uses religion as a justification for violence and to "save" a woman who clearly isn't right for him. Yet, that ending seems like it could have come right out of Kick-Ass: Frank storming the mansion in slow-motion while easily taking down Bacon's goons and bullets no longer seem able to hit him. And while it's shot well, it just feels like it goes against everything else the movie has shown us.

post #44 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post

On the ending: I do agree that I don't think it's quite earned. Frank might not be Travis Bickle, but it's made quite clear that he's a broken man who uses religion as a justification for violence and to "save" a woman who clearly isn't right for him. Yet, that ending seems like it could have come right out of Kick-Ass: Frank storming the mansion in slow-motion while easily taking down Bacon's goons and bullets no longer seem able to hit him. And while it's shot well, it just feels like it goes against everything else the movie has shown us.

 

um... did you skip the part where Page gets her head blown off?

post #45 of 48
Super kicks Kick Ass' ass.

One of my all time favorite flicks. It's a great little dark comedy that takes a VERY straight forward approach to the "what if someone really did it" superhero movie. The cast is great with the standouts being Wilson and Bacon. Bacon is just having a blast and you really can tell.

"You don't butt in line! You don't sell drugs! You don't molest little children! You don't profit off the misery of others! The rules were set a long time ago! They don't change!"

Wilson delivers the hell out of those lines. Always gives me goosebumps.

Damn, think I'll pop this in tomorrow.
post #46 of 48
i can't believe the director of this movie and Slither now gets to work with a huge budget on a comic property as gonzo as GotG. i am so excited. and i just can't hide it.
post #47 of 48
Wasp's about to lose control, and I think I like it.
post #48 of 48

I want you.

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