MICHAEL SHANNON ESCAPES THE PHANTOM ZONE - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

I think the Adams thing has been handled, so I won't bother with it. However, you somehow missed my point. SR, a movie very few people seem to like, made over $400 million. It made over $400 million because it's Superman. He generates interests irrespective of immediate popularity. Will he really dig into the popular culture this time around? I have no idea. The film is populated with wonderful actors, but Snyder is a terrible storyteller, and we don't know what the script is or is not.    
 

 

I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree. I'm sorry to look at it as ONLY $400 million....but for a Superman movie, I just don't think that is impressive. Both Iron Man's made over $1 billion worldwide combined . And that was an "B-list" superhero. Supes is one of the big 3 along with Spider-man and Batman. Dark Knight made a billion worldwide. All the Spider-mans made damn near close to that. The S symbol is and will always be iconic. But I don't think people get excited for a Superman flick anymore like they do Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men and probably Iron Man now. They are going to have to play up "from the makers of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight and the director of 300" like Rain Dog said above. Whatever faults Snyder has, this movie will look fucking sweet, but they are going to need a helluva first trailer to get butts back in seats for a Supes flick.

http://www.latinoreview.com/news/michael-shannon-on-his-casting-as-general-zod-in-superman-man-of-steel-13212 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnDirtyApe 

 

I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree. I'm sorry to look at it as ONLY $400 million....but for a Superman movie, I just don't think that is impressive. Both Iron Man's made over $1 billion worldwide combined . And that was an "B-list" superhero. Supes is one of the big 3 along with Spider-man and Batman. Dark Knight made a billion worldwide. All the Spider-mans made damn near close to that. The S symbol is and will always be iconic. But I don't think people get excited for a Superman flick anymore like they do Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men and probably Iron Man now. They are going to have to play up "from the makers of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight and the director of 300" like Rain Dog said above. Whatever faults Snyder has, this movie will look fucking sweet, but they are going to need a helluva first trailer to get butts back in seats for a Supes flick.

 

Mate seriously, at this point you're just sounding like Contrary Chris or simply not reading peoples posts. No one is trying to say Returns is a massive hit on the level of Nolans Batmans or Iron Man, what people are saying is that any success the film did have was due to that gigantic red 'S' that came with proceedings. Who was the draw for Returns as far as actors go? Kevin Spacey? The guy hadn't been in a hit since American Beauty in '99. Kate Bosworth? Who knew who she was? Christ, who knows who she is even today? Kal frikkin Penn? No, what people laid down their hard-earned to see was simply Superman - the fact that it wasn't a great film is what got it to only 400 million.

Now, compare that to what we've got this time - Amy Adams has just come off being nominated for an oscar, has been in a number of successes that have been listed above and is all over the tabloids. Add to that Kevin Costner and Diane Lane - and most importantly of all add the names Zac Snyder and Christopher Nolan - two of the only new film-makers to get their names above the marquee in the last ten years that the mainstream has any passing knowledge of.

...but more than anything else, even if they've never picked up a comic book, even if they didn't like the last movie, even if they've never watched Smallville or Lois & Clark - people around the world love Superman. The guys got some of the greatest brand recognition in modern western culture.

I still remember when DC 'killed' Superman with their Doomsday storyline back in the early nineties, I told my dad one night that Superman was dead in the comics and completely out of the blue my old man just shook his head. "No he isn't. He can't be. Superman can't die. He's invincible." Nothing I would or could say would shake my dads faith in this assertion. This was a forty something year old man who'd never picked up a comic book in his life and he was reacting with the stubborness of a child to the very notion of the death of Superman. The character is utterly beloved.

People may not be buying up his comics in droves, he may have taken a back seat to Batman and some of Marvels characters of late, but people always want to know Superman is there - and mark my words, they will come out in droves - fucking droves - for a good Superman movie.

I keep reading how...Superman Returns failed, because it was like the...Richard Donner Superman films.  That is so not true.  Donner's Superman had charm, humor, and didn't saddle his hero with a bland Lois Lane, an Asthmatic Superson, or make Superman into a Superstalker!  Some of the music from John Williams is used, but not well.  Luthor, was caught and sent to jail in Superman The Movie, but that didn't happen in SR.  I hope Zack Snyder finally cures Superman of his...Box Office Kryptonite, since the less than, Super Threesome of Superman III, IV, and Returns!

Ah, but to counterpoint that, Superman didn't have a stigma before Superman Returns. Because of that movie, any onscreen version of Superman has that stigma. Of course, because people are first weekend sheep, word of mouth on the film would have to be very good, because as of now I'd say it's probably going to open in the vicinity of the last one (five day $84 million - consider this one at $95 for the first five days*). And after that, the buzz would have to be strong ("it's better than the last one, I promise!" strong) to earn the legs and become a serious box officer performer. Is it going to be?

For the record, I am pained to say all of that, because I don't think Zack Snyder has a chance of making a Superman movie as thorny, interesting or thematically rewarding as Superman Returns. I AM THAT GUY.

*is this going to be in 3D? I don't think I've heard anything about that. It would seriously skew the numbers.

Hardly a unique position. I don't think Snyder is capable of genuine nuance either, so I'm not terribly optimistic. The Michael Shannon interview I posted is kind of interesting, not so much in what he says (though he is very funny) but in what he doesn't say.

Also, thank you to Rain Dog for that last post. The merry-go-round of stating and restating the obvious was getting exhausting.

Edit: Oh, and though I don't want to get off into fancasting and all that, I think Michael Sheen would make a great Lex Luthor. I like Luthor as maybe a sort of disarmingly charming character, easily concealing a completely amoral personality. The kind of guy who does horrendous shit, not because it gets him off, but because to him, it just seems like the best way to go about getting shit done. Sheen can sell that. Let him keep his hair though, as Sheen's plentiful noggin would probably look weird all shaved up or under a bald cap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

Edit: Oh, and though I don't want to get off into fancasting and all that, I think Michael Sheen would make a great Lex Luthor. I like Luthor as maybe a sort of disarmingly charming character, easily concealing a completely amoral personality. The kind of guy who does horrendous shit, not because it gets him off, but because to him, it just seems like the best way to go about getting shit done. Sheen can sell that. Let him keep his hair though, as Sheen's plentiful noggin would probably look weird all shaved up or under a bald cap.

Well considering there were all those rumors he's playing Blofeld in the next Bond, I'll take him as either bald super-villain personally. Great suggestion tho JJ, Sheen really would be terrific.

It might make participating and commenting on Film discussion easier if you actually Watch movies. They may not all be your cup of tea but that list is a pretty broad range of stuff so finding something you like wouldn't be difficult.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Augustine 

I've seen one of the above the flicks. I have no idea who Amy Adams is outside of this thread....

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe T 

Ah, but to counterpoint that, Superman didn't have a stigma before Superman Returns.

What? Maybe not for younger generations, but my god if you were old enough to have seen Superman III and IV in theaters it sure as hell had a stigma.

I thought by the end of SUPERMAN RETURNS he had stigmata.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeypants 

What? Maybe not for younger generations, but my god if you were old enough to have seen Superman III and IV in theaters it sure as hell had a stigma.

Some of those sores still fester, but c'mon. It was long enough to forgive and forget.
Y'know, hold hands, sing Kumbaya. Love Superman TOGETHER again. Superman in the post-Spider-Man world.

We love you, Superman. Nuclear Man never happened. I'm a little stoned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rain Dog 

Mate seriously, at this point you're just sounding like Contrary Chris or simply not reading peoples posts. No one is trying to say Returns is a massive hit on the level of Nolans Batmans or Iron Man, what people are saying is that any success the film did have was due to that gigantic red 'S' that came with proceedings. Who was the draw for Returns as far as actors go? Kevin Spacey? The guy hadn't been in a hit since American Beauty in '99. Kate Bosworth? Who knew who she was? Christ, who knows who she is even today? Kal frikkin Penn? No, what people laid down their hard-earned to see was simply Superman - the fact that it wasn't a great film is what got it to only 400 million.

 

Now, compare that to what we've got this time - Amy Adams has just come off being nominated for an oscar, has been in a number of successes that have been listed above and is all over the tabloids. Add to that Kevin Costner and Diane Lane - and most importantly of all add the names Zac Snyder and Christopher Nolan - two of the only new film-makers to get their names above the marquee in the last ten years that the mainstream has any passing knowledge of.

 

...but more than anything else, even if they've never picked up a comic book, even if they didn't like the last movie, even if they've never watched Smallville or Lois & Clark - people around the world love Superman. The guys got some of the greatest brand recognition in modern western culture.

 

I still remember when DC 'killed' Superman with their Doomsday storyline back in the early nineties, I told my dad one night that Superman was dead in the comics and completely out of the blue my old man just shook his head. "No he isn't. He can't be. Superman can't die. He's invincible." Nothing I would or could say would shake my dads faith in this assertion. This was a forty something year old man who'd never picked up a comic book in his life and he was reacting with the stubborness of a child to the very notion of the death of Superman. The character is utterly beloved.

 

People may not be buying up his comics in droves, he may have taken a back seat to Batman and some of Marvels characters of late, but people always want to know Superman is there - and mark my words, they will come out in droves - fucking droves - for a good Superman movie.

I wasn't trying to disrespect JackKnifeJohnny or anyone else on these boards. Nor was I trying to be contrary just to be contrary. I was just trying to explain my opinion (and failing miserably), and I sincerely apologize if I came across as a dick or difficult. I guess I'm a glass half empty guy, and I was surprised as I looked at $400 million for a Superman movie and that seems so....small to me, I guess. I would expect more for a Supes flick, regardless of the quality. It is after all, like you said, a world wide brand name. And a lot of this stems from my surprise that they didn't go with Butler for Zod, as I felt he would have been a slightly bigger name for the movie, but a less bold and interesting choice than Shannon. Regardless, I am down with all the choices so far, and my butt will be in a seat opening week.

Once again, I apologize for missing the forest for the trees. I respect everyone's opinions on these boards. I'll be sure to re-read all posts, and quadruple read my own before I post. Forgive my ignorance.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe T 

Some of those sores still fester, but c'mon. It was long enough to forgive and forget.
Y'know, hold hands, sing Kumbaya. Love Superman TOGETHER again. Superman in the post-Spider-Man world.

We love you, Superman. Nuclear Man never happened. I'm a little stoned.

Hey, I was young enough that I actually thought Superman IV was fucking awesome in theaters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Augustine 

I've seen one of the above the flicks. I have no idea who Amy Adams is outside of this thread....

 

That's like me saying that Miley Cyrus isn't famous because I have never watched Hannah Montana or any of her movies.  It doesn't matter whether or not we know who Amy Adams is.  What matters is if the rest of the country does..........................and they do.

My derailing take on why I'm looking forward to (the idea of) an origin story reboot or whatever-you-wanna-call-it. Obviously I have no idea what Nolan, Goyer and Snyder have planned so at this point it's all just hypothesizing. Whatever you think of the Donner films, they embraced a narrow interpretation of Superman. One that was likely defined by what technology was available at the time, and also by what the creators and fans thought a live-action Superman film should look like.

Fast forward 30 some-odd years and we have an entirely new audience with new expectations not to mention new tools at the filmmakers' disposal. Those that love Superman tend to embrace most aspects of the character. It's what makes something like All-Star Superman (and I'm talking about the comic book) such a great, definitive piece. Ideally this film should embrace many aspects of the character. And if this particular bit of franchise is going to survive multiple films, it's going to have to do just that. By remaking the origin story, the filmmakers have the ability to frame the character in a world that is at once familiar to audiences but also opens the world to allow all the other villains and secondary characters to exist naturally.

There's also a lot of nice character work that could be built into this version of the origin story that wasn't in any of the Donner films. I know some like to rip on Batman Begins for detailing all the mundane stuff like how he got the suit and cowl. But what's interesting there is how he built those crimefighting tools from his father's legacy, not necessarily that he grinded the edges of his batarangs himself. And none of that stuff would've had any resonance if we weren't there as Bruce struggled with his need for vengeance and then running away from his life. I'm hoping that this film does something similar for Clark Kent but at the same time allows characters like Brainiac, Darkseid, Metallo, Parasite, etc. to exist without coming off as too jarring for mainstream audiences.

The only thing that's disappointing about Zod as a villain is that there is no really compelling version from the books. So while Stamp's version is pretty cool because it's Terrance Stamp, the character himself doesn't exactly resonate.

Good post.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pop Zeus 

 

The only thing that's disappointing about Zod as a villain is that there is no really compelling version from the books. So while Stamp's version is pretty cool because it's Terrance Stamp, the character himself doesn't exactly resonate.

Someone more enlightened than me can expound on this, but the recent incarnation dealt with Zod as more of a Kryptonian nationalist (globalist?) who sponsored pre-emptive action against Earth because he feared they would have an extremist reaction to the plethora of new Kryptonians joining society due to the resurfacing of the preserved city of Kandor. While that could be a little too Magneto-ish for the films, I like the idea of Zod being concerned with the survival of the few Kryptonians left rather than the preservation of humankind, a rationalist who goes just a bit too far.