"Official" Game Of Thrones Discussion for those who have read the books. - Page 23

Here's the first problem that needs solving with next season. The end of that book plays like the best season ender ever, but it can't be, unless you push it to the end of season four. But then, you have to literally take two full seasons to do book three, which is probably stretching it quite a bit. So do you keep that framework, and move as much of four and five into the earlier time frame (the Grayjoys strike me as a sound possibility there), or finish book three mid season? Both would be quite tricky.

I thought I'd read that doing Book 3 over two seasons with the RW as the end of the third season was the plan all along?  Not necessarily that there'll be nothing from Book 4 in the fourth season, mind, but Book 3 would play out over two seasons.  And with the way Book 4 and 5 cover roughly the same period of time, there are plenty of candidates for a good ending to the fourth season, most likely what happens to Dany.

D&D have mentioned how they want to make sure season three doesn't just feel like half a story, so they're aware of the problem, at least.

What's interesting is that this will be the first season that will feel like it has time to breathe. There'll probably be a lot more stuff added in. I'd also argue that you can fit most of Arya's storyline into S3 and then expand on her studies in Braavos for S4 (and 5?) Likewise, for Dany, S3 can probably end with the Unsullied overthrowing Astapor, then S4 can be devoted to the ongoing campaign against Yunkai and Meereen. Among other things, it could give us a proper intro to Daario Noharis, who seems to pop up out of nowhere in book 5.

Things are going to get more chaotic and less delineated, adaptation-wise, by the end of next season. I'm pretty sure the current season will be ending with the battle on the Fist, or at least part of it; I'm guessing that, in a similar vein, the big battles that are apparently planned to open book 6 will be moved to the end of S5 (or whatever season adapts ADWD).
 

Anybody else notice the episodes we've seen so far look like they were shot on a slightly lower budget?   The production design is flawless as ever but you can tell that they are being very frugal with these episodes.   Feels like they are saving most of the show's budget for Blackwater which I'm more than okay with.   I have a feeling that episode will surprise people with how epic it will look.

You think so? I think stuff like Robb's camp in the premiere look way bigger and more bustling than anything last year. Even Renly's camp didn't immediately make me think "No way he's got 100,000 men!" Unlike last year where King's Landing seemed to consist of some gates, rooms, and underpopulated courtyards. (I actually liked the sweeping view out Shae's window, though I've heard other people complain it looked fake...though I thought it was a real, albeit digitally retouched, shot of the rooftops of the city in Croatia where they're filming this year...)
 

I miss having the bloody mummers, Jaime's interactions with them are so great later in the books. But more Tywin is a good thing, so I can see why they went in that direction.

They had to flesh out the story line for Rob, its great as is in the books, but for him to just show up with a wife in the series would be tough on the audience. His love interest is a cliche, but oh well.

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Originally Posted by 3nnui 

I miss having the bloody mummers, Jaime's interactions with them are so great later in the books. But more Tywin is a good thing, so I can see why they went in that direction.

 

They had to flesh out the story line for Rob, its great as is in the books, but for him to just show up with a wife in the series would be tough on the audience. His love interest is a cliche, but oh well.

Might just be my memory, but don't the Bloody Mummers show up later?  The Mountain and Tickler weren't with them.

Yeah, surely the Bloody Mummers will make an appearance. Jaqen, Rorge and Biter need to return. Unless they find some other way to bring them back.

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Originally Posted by dynamotv 

Anybody else notice the episodes we've seen so far look like they were shot on a slightly lower budget?   The production design is flawless as ever but you can tell that they are being very frugal with these episodes.   Feels like they are saving most of the show's budget for Blackwater which I'm more than okay with.   I have a feeling that episode will surprise people with how epic it will look.

Wow, I've had completely the opposite impression.  There's a sense of scale to every episode thus far that makes them all look like Winter Is Coming, and not the budget-conscious episodes thereafter.

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Originally Posted by The Prankster 

You think so? I think stuff like Robb's camp in the premiere look way bigger and more bustling than anything last year. Even Renly's camp didn't immediately make me think "No way he's got 100,000 men!" Unlike last year where King's Landing seemed to consist of some gates, rooms, and underpopulated courtyards. (I actually liked the sweeping view out Shae's window, though I've heard other people complain it looked fake...though I thought it was a real, albeit digitally retouched, shot of the rooftops of the city in Croatia where they're filming this year...)
 

I agree... Everything looks better this season, and more expensive. The establishing shots, the creature effects, the # of extras, the acting, the sigils being actually visible and prominent, and the list goes on...

I can't think of a single thing that looks worse or cheaper than last year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamotv 

Anybody else notice the episodes we've seen so far look like they were shot on a slightly lower budget?   The production design is flawless as ever but you can tell that they are being very frugal with these episodes.   Feels like they are saving most of the show's budget for Blackwater which I'm more than okay with.   I have a feeling that episode will surprise people with how epic it will look.

CGI Direwolves.

'Nuff said.  :-)

I can't wait for Dondarrion and Thoros to show up either at the end of this season or sometime next one. Flaming sword battles get me all hot and bothered.

A neat shot from next episode... Pyat Pree (warlock of Qarth) - We saw him among the 13 in the last episode, but this is a better view of him:

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Originally Posted by Doc Happenin 

I can't wait for Dondarrion and Thoros to show up either at the end of this season or sometime next one. Flaming sword battles get me all hot and bothered.

They don't show up until well into Storm of Swords.  That's after the Hound goes rogue and desserts King's Landing.  I'm wondering how they're going to set up the Brotherhood Without banners in the show.

I'm more interested in seeing Whitebeard and Strong Belwas :-D  I'm also interested in seeing how they handle the House of the Undying, which I assume will be a big Danny scene sometime this season.

Has anyone heard if they're going to introduce Wildfire into the show?  It plays a big role in the Battle of the Blackwater in the books, but I've heard that they're just gonna use normal fire in the show.  That would be a shame, since Green Fire that can't be put out would be awesome to see.

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Originally Posted by Simon West will kill Again 

Has anyone heard if they're going to introduce Wildfire into the show?  It plays a big role in the Battle of the Blackwater in the books, but I've heard that they're just gonna use normal fire in the show.  That would be a shame, since Green Fire that can't be put out would be awesome to see.

It's going to make its first appearance in the next episode.

Roy Dotrice will also be playing pyromancer Hallyne.

Just watched Ep 4.  Holy fuck that shadow demon baby was well realised.  The way it's claw grabbed hold of her calf as it was coming out.

I'm really liking the streamlining they've done, they've cut out so much aimless wandering.  Getting to the Tickler in Harrenhall (which was so well designed) and having it be Tywin Lannister rather than Bolton (?) adds a  huge air of danger, in case she's recognised.

Oh and what a total fucking cunt Joffrey is.  When his end comes it has to be reallllly drawn out, I actually felt he got off lightly in the book, but then he's nowhere near as much of a psychopathic arsehole in the books.

Since Davos's backstory is being discussed in the other thread, here's a question. If I recall correctly, before the rebellion, Davos had butted heads with the Baratheon brothers before, right? Like, they knew he was out there smuggling and tried to bring him down (one imagines Stannis in particular was probably after him). So do they ever actually explain WHY Davos decided to have a Han Solo moment and join the rebellion by smuggling food to his former archnemesis? Obviously it worked out pretty well for him, but it seems kind of weird that he suddenly decided to get political.

SPOILER SPACE LOOK AWAY FOR THE LOVE OF GAAAAAWD!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Bain 

Oh and what a total fucking cunt Joffrey is.  When his end comes it has to be reallllly drawn out, I actually felt he got off lightly in the book, but then he's nowhere near as much of a psychopathic arsehole in the books.

Personally, I always felt it was a nice touch that, rather than giving the audience what they think they want (Joffrey skewered by Needle) Martin has Joffrey poisoned by schemers who CLEARLY saw that Joffrey being king would be no good for anyone. And having Tyrion framed for it makes his death so bittersweet. "Hey, I'm going to kill that character you hate which will result in grave danger for a character you love!" It also makes me excited that they're fleshing out the Tyrells early, for it will make this moment all the more satisfying. The rose is pretty, but it has thorns, my friends. It has thorns. 

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Originally Posted by The Prankster 

Since Davos's backstory is being discussed in the other thread, here's a question. If I recall correctly, before the rebellion, Davos had butted heads with the Baratheon brothers before, right? Like, they knew he was out there smuggling and tried to bring him down (one imagines Stannis in particular was probably after him). So do they ever actually explain WHY Davos decided to have a Han Solo moment and join the rebellion by smuggling food to his former archnemesis? Obviously it worked out pretty well for him, but it seems kind of weird that he suddenly decided to get political.

I took it as Davos is basically a good man, and while he didn't want to take any part in any war, those people were starving. Then again, this little subplot is just one of many reasons we need an epic little prequel miniseries! C'mon, BSG had seventy of them, just give me Robert's Rebellion people! (Unless of course the next two books have Bran act as a flashback machine, thus covering all the important bits like Rhaegar and Lynna and what really happened between them etc. etc.)

Yeah, in the books I did not get the impression that Davos had fought either against or for the Baratheons. He was just a smuggler trying to make a living.

Prankster!!! Don't post spoilers like this on the non-spoiler thread!

That is a SPOILER by omission. Almost as bad as saying that Dinklage has a 6 season contract. Now everyone knows that A) Varys does not get killed anytime soon (if ever) and B) we won't find out his motives for a long time. Stop posting things like that!!!!

I suggest you edit your post ASAP. When in doubt, don't bring up the book over there.

It's somewhat similar to saying "X is my favorite character" or "X has an incredible journey ahead". Those imply that X at least lives long enough to warrant a statement like that. I'm even wary of telling people Stannis is my favorite character because of the short and long term spoilers related to that.

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

Actually, you could easily read my statement as Varys getting whacked in the next episode. But I'll change it if you like.
 

This sort of shows how convoluted trying to talk about stuff without bringing up spoilers is, and what constitutes a spoiler. I agree saying "Stannis is my favourite character" implies a lot and borders on spoiler territory, but if someone said "Tyrion is my favourite character" I don't think anyone would blink. There's no reason your favourite character can't die in book two. I bet Khal Drogo and Ned Stark are some people's favourite characters.

Hell, people who haven't read the books have to assume that the people who have might be screwing with them a little. "My favourite character is Lannister guardsman #3! Keep your eye on that guy!"
 

Except it's not convoluted at all.  The books don't exist in that thread.  Discuss the show as aired.

If I've read the books, is it a spoiler to say that Tyrion is my favourite character? This is what I'm saying. Not, "having read the books, Tyrion is my favourite character," just saying it flat-out but being someone who everyone knows has read the books. I think there's enough ambiguity there that it's not a spoiler--even if Tyrion were to be killed in the next episode, he could easily be someone's favourite character.

I apologize for bringing up the books, but I was just trying to say that I didn't have any special knowledge about Varys's character. I don't think my post had to be interpreted as "Varys survives" at all, but it's impossible to mitigate the damage now, so I apologize.

Speaking of talk about the books in the other thread, someone mentioned the dangling question of who sent the dude with the knife to kill Bran. I really hope they don't leave that dangling to the point where the actual reveal carries no weight whatsoever, the way the books did. Same thing with Jon Arryn's poisoner.

And it's mandatory that every time I post in these threads I voice my disgust at all you rich jerks with HBO who get to watch this show live.

Hey, that's not fair, I don't watch it live!  I usually let it record on the DVR for 5 minutes so I can skip all of HBO's pre-show commercials.

Do what I do: find a rich friend with HBO and invite yourself over every week.
 

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Originally Posted by The Prankster 

Do what I do: find a rich friend with HBO and invite yourself over every week.
 

Bingo! That is what I do. I am trying to weasel their HBO Go information since they don't use it.

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Originally Posted by MrTyres 

 

 

Bingo! That is what I do. I am trying to weasel their HBO Go information since they don't use it.

I was trying to pull the same one, after finding out that my mom had gotten HBO as part of a Direct TV package...only to discover that you can't get HBO Go with Direct TV in her area! 

I actually offered to chip in for their HBO for the duration of GoT's current season. Fortunately that wasn't neccessary. But that would have been my next choice--get a bunch of friends together and pool your money for a couple month's subscription to HBO, then have GoT parties every week, or couple of weeks, or whatever.
 

My friend works for Comcast and gets everything--EVERYTHING--free. I take back every mean thing I said about you, you big mean evil corporate giant. Give me Dany at my friend's house every week, Comcast, and we're cool.

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Originally Posted by Whiteboy Jones 

Speaking of talk about the books in the other thread, someone mentioned the dangling question of who sent the dude with the knife to kill Bran. I really hope they don't leave that dangling to the point where the actual reveal carries no weight whatsoever, the way the books did. Same thing with Jon Arryn's poisoner.

SPOILER SPACE AAAH WHAT ARE YOU DOING LOOK AWAY YOU FOOL!

Is it wrong that, every time I see a non-book reader theorize that Joffrey was the one who sent the assassin to kill Bran, I think "You read the books dude. There is no way you could have figured that out on your own." And honestly, that was kind of my least favorite reveal. Not just because it doesn't carry any weight whatsoever, I just felt it didn't make too much sense and just trying to imagine Joffrey being scheming enough to steal a knife that could implicate Tyrion (or was that just Littlefinger taking advantage of the situation? Honestly, my memory is hazy so feel free to correct me). And why did he even go after Bran again? None of it makes a lick of sense, character motivation wise (and can you seriously see Joffrey sitting down with an assassin and hiring them? Maybe he got the Hound to get someone, I don't know.) and quite frankly I would be rather pleased if they just changed that one particular twist entirely. 

SPOILER SPACE AAAH WHAT ARE YOU DOING LOOK AWAY YOU FOOL!

Hope you don't mind me copying your spoiler space.

I agree that the effect was somewhat lessened by dragging it out so long. But--and it's a big but--looking back at all of the chaos that one event spawned was really kind of awe-inspiring. Plus, Joffrey being behind it makes perfect sense when you see how clumsiliy it was handled; Tyrion himself scoffs at the notion that he would give an assassin a dagger that can be traced directly back to him. Only an idiot who thinks he's a genius would make that mistake when framing someone. 

SPOOOOOOOILER SPACE SPOOOOOOOILER SPACE 

I think they will probably move up the assassin reveal, I would not be surprised if it happens this season. After all, the Jamie/Cat conversation in the season finale was moved up from book two.

YET ANOTHER SPOILER SPACE JESUS IT'S HARD TO KNOW HOW MUCH SPACE TO LEAVE

It's just a plan that you have to work backwards to make any sense of. I mean, what, Joffrey goes "I sure do hate my uncle! I think I'll send an assassin armed with a dagger that belong to him to go kill a boy I had little to no interaction with and-" Wait, could the reason he sent him to kill Bran simply because he resented being asked to express his condolences for the boy's state? It IS what Tyrion slapped him over...my God, did I just make sense of something I hated? 

spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space

Joffrey overheard Robert saying Bran was better off dead.

Also, "spoiler space" 4 times seems to be sufficient padding.

Do you WANT to end up like Toht? Look away non-book readers! 

I know there are probably numerous out of left field explanations, but it always struck me as Martin going "And uh...Joffrey sent the assassin, I guess. You buy that? Who cares at this point." I mean, how coincidental is it that Joffrey happens to send an assassin after a kid who was previously injured by his (unknown to him) parents, thus making it look even more like they sent the assassin? I know, suspension of disbelief, coincidences causing wars etc etc etc...but when you have such delightful schemers like Littlefinger and Varys and whatnot, why not make it an actual SCHEMER responsible for something that ultimately leads to the main plot progressing as it does? I keep thinking Littlefinger is the obvious choice, should HBO choose to change things around, but as scheming as he is I can't see him sending an assassin after one of his beloved Cat's children. Unless he thought that assassin would fail...like Varys thought HIS assassin would fail...is there some kind of agency of bad assassins that will definitely fail? The Incompetent Men? 

SPOILERSPOILERSPOILER

I just thought it was cool that for all the scheming Varys and Littlefinger do, even the dolts among the players have various intrigue schemes. Jacknife Johnny is much smarter than I am; I did not see Joffrey behind that at all.

Wow, I totally did not remember that.  Still don't see how it makes any sense.

SPACE OF THE SPOILERS WORDS ARE WIND BOILED LEATHER WHERE DO SPOILERS GO

D&D could make Joffrey into someone who is repressing knowledge that his-uncle-is-his-father as fuel for his hatred of Tyrion and everybody else. He killed the bastards in this version, and is older, more serial killer-like. He could intuitively understand about Jaime and Cersei, get brutally slapped and humiliated by Tyrion, and need to act out. There needs to be a stronger connection than just Tyrion telling him to pay respects to Bran (and Robert saying he was better off dead). A line of dialogue somehow nodding toward him noticing Jaime and Cersei's reaction to news of Bran still being alive.

Felt Pelt -

I also thought Cersei had killed off the bastards in the book, but on checking the text I found that Janos Slynt tells Tyrion that it was Joffrey's orders.

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Originally Posted by sirjonsnow 

Felt Pelt -

 

I also thought Cersei had killed off the bastards in the book, but on checking the text I found that Janos Slynt tells Tyrion that it was Joffrey's orders.

Really? Can you point to a specific chapter and/or quote the actual passage? My memory is hazy about that point, so it would be helpful.

SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE

I'll be honest, to this day I thought it was Littlefinger's move.  Joffery was such a little shit, and younger in the books than he is on the show, and inbred...  Never thought of him having it in him, he's just a "I'm the King so I get whatever I want" character.  Scheming isn't in his playbook, he's young and dumb enough to believe his BS.

SPOILER SPACE AAAH WHAT ARE YOU DOING LOOK AWAY YOU FOOL!

Whatever the logic of Joffrey wanting to kill Bran, the fact that someone guessed that Joffrey was behind it isn't hard for me to believe. It's the equivalent of how the top-ranked guest star on "Murder She Wrote" is probably the killer, regardless of how the narrative logic stacks up. Joffrey's a murderous shithead; sending the assassin got Tyrion in trouble, right after Joff was given renewed reasons to despise the guy; the obvious conclusion is that he did it, even if you have to assume there's some other reason why that we haven't been told, or whatever.

Personally, I don't find it that hard to swallow, in the sense that I don't think Joff had anything against Bran at all; it was, as has been mentioned, Joff lashing out at being told to pay his respects by Tyrion, who'd pissed him off. It's a petulant move from a guy who knows he gets everything he wants, and also is a psychopath. The prostitute-beating scene from the most recent episode is essentially a mirror of this--Joffrey doesn't actually have any ill will towards the prostitutes, except in his usual Patrick Bateman way, but he knows he can threaten Tyrion by hurting them. I actually think that's why they included that scene in the first place, despite people claiming it was pointless. The idea is that Joffrey sees the smallfolk as pawns and gets off on hurting them. For all that he loathes Tyrion he sees him as being on another level, something closer to an equal, who has to be circumvented (however awkwardly).

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Originally Posted by Hyperspace 

 

 

Really? Can you point to a specific chapter and/or quote the actual passage? My memory is hazy about that point, so it would be helpful.

Dangit, that's what I get for looking at about two sentences right before going to bed - they mentioned the brothel incident (the mother was also killed), but then it was Janos talking about Joffrey commanding Ned to be killed, not about the bastards.  That's what I get for skimming.  Gah, I'll dig a little more, make sure there really isn't confirmation about the bastard purging.

eta - Okay, checked the first 1/3 of the book and this is the only kind of confirmation about the matter, hardbound pg 98, Tyrion with Varys, right after giving Janos the boot:

     Varys filled a cup. "Ah.  Sweet as summer."  He took another sip. "I hear the grapes singing on my tongue."

     "I wondered what that noise was.  Tell the grapes to keep still, my head is about to split.  It was my sister.  That was what the oh-so-loyal Lord Janos refused to say.  Cersei sent the gold cloaks to that brothel."

     Varys tittered nervously.  So he had known all along.

     "You left that part out," Tyrion said accusingly.

     "Your own sweet sister," Varys said, so grief-stricken he looked close to tears.  "It is a hard thing to tell a man, my lord.  I was fearful how you might take it.  Can you forgive me?"

then a little more and Varys saying he took steps to remove another bastad (Gendry) from harm's way.

Loved the little tricks they pulled with Jaqen.  He had his helmet when he passed by Arya, but it was sitting on the water barrel when she got there.  Then, at the end, he was eating an apple - just like The Tickler did when he was torturing people.

Nothing to see here, move long, these aren't the imps you're looking for...

Anyone else get the feeling they're going to have Osha play the role the Reeds did in the books?