or Connect
CHUD.com Community › Forums › SPORTS, GAMES & LEISURE › Television › "Official" Game Of Thrones Discussion for those who have read the books.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

"Official" Game Of Thrones Discussion for those who have read the books. - Page 16

post #751 of 4320

Well, if any book series could use a slightly more dedicated editor, it's this one. I think I'll welcome a lot of the 'fast-forwarding' myself.


Edited by Jacob Singer - 3/28/12 at 4:47pm
post #752 of 4320
post #753 of 4320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post

Well, if any book series could use a slightly more dedicted editor, it's this one. I think I'll welcome a lot of the 'fast-forwarding' myself.



I agree in principle, but I the trouble with the determination to keep the plot moving is that if all you're doing is going down a checklist, things can seem kind of perfunctory. I felt like some of Dany's storyline zoomed past a little too quickly in the early going of S1, and the reversal that she was the crucial character and Visaerys was a red herring didn't have as much of an impact as it could have. Likewise, Jon Snow's run-in with the White Walkers wasn't as effective a sequence as it could have been, because it was more about servicing plot compared to the creepy, badass cold open in the pilot. When you move through things too quickly, you sometimes lose a lot of atmosphere and impact. The story needs time to breathe.

 

I realize there are always going to be issues with time, budget, and other stuff, but in this particular case, Jon's storyline in book 2 is actually really thin, so I'm surprised they're moving it along so fast. I think if you pull out all the Jon Snow chapters and place them side by side, Craster's Keep doesn't show up until something like a third of the way in. And since Mance Rayder hasn't been cast (I think), they can't move Jon's storyline that far along. Now, obviously, I'm assuming they're going to give us a taste of the Fist battle, and they're making room for it...or possibly they're going to beef up Jon's arc this season with some standalone adventures. It seems like Quorin Hafhand's been given more screentime, too. So that's all good. I just think going right to Craster's Keep without establishing how all the villages are abandoned loses some of the creep factor, especially since, as I say, they could easily establish it with a quick scene in Whitetree first.

post #754 of 4320
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post



I agree in principle, but I the trouble with the determination to keep the plot moving is that if all you're doing is going down a checklist, things can seem kind of perfunctory. I felt like some of Dany's storyline zoomed past a little too quickly in the early going of S1, and the reversal that she was the crucial character and Visaerys was a red herring didn't have as much of an impact as it could have. Likewise, Jon Snow's run-in with the White Walkers wasn't as effective a sequence as it could have been, because it was more about servicing plot compared to the creepy, badass cold open in the pilot. When you move through things too quickly, you sometimes lose a lot of atmosphere and impact. The story needs time to breathe.

 


As someone who didn't read the first book until after the first season, my perspective was very different. I was surprised that they killed Visareys off so early, but in a good way. It confirmed my suspicion that Danny was more important all along, which they did a really nice job of subtly hinting at. 

 

post #755 of 4320

The fact that Dany was import important than Viserys was pretty obvious IMO from the start - both in the show (due to the focus on Dany) and in the book (due to Dany having the POV).

 

Viserys death was simply the first shot 'across the bow' so to speak that significant characters will die. That was his purpose, IMO.

post #756 of 4320

Dany having a POV obviously meant she was a "lead", but in the early going it seems like the point of the books is that you're seeing everything from the perspective of fairly minor characters, or a mix of minor and major characters, and that having a POV didn't mean you were important. After all, King Robert doesn't have a POV. Khal Drogo doesn't have a POV. Whereas characters like Bran and Sansa, who aren't really power players at any point in the book (and indeed, don't have a huge amount to do when they show up on screen) do have POVs. So at least for a chapter or two, I tended to believe that Dany was simply our "window" into these characters and their inevitable power struggle. This had the potential to be emphasized and make for a nice twist in the TV adaptation, one that meshed nicely with several of the themes. The advance materials were smart enough to emphasize Viserys as a character, making it seem like he was going to be more of a factor than he ended up being, and presumably making his death surprising in the same way that Ned's and Khal Drogo's are. I do think it could have been a bit more powerfully done, but apparently it worked for Parker, so I withdraw my complaint, your honour.

post #757 of 4320

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
I realize there are always going to be issues with time, budget, and other stuff, but in this particular case, Jon's storyline in book 2 is actually really thin, so I'm surprised they're moving it along so fast. I think if you pull out all the Jon Snow chapters and place them side by side, Craster's Keep doesn't show up until something like a third of the way in. And since Mance Rayder hasn't been cast (I think), they can't move Jon's storyline that far along. Now, obviously, I'm assuming they're going to give us a taste of the Fist battle, and they're making room for it...or possibly they're going to beef up Jon's arc this season with some standalone adventures. It seems like Quorin Hafhand's been given more screentime, too. So that's all good. I just think going right o Craster's Keep without establishing how all the villages are abandoned loses some of the creep factor, especially since, as I say, they could easily establish it with a quick scene in Whitetree first.

I think we're gonna see some wight attacks sprinkled into Jon's story, either A) when he's with Quorin, thus demonstrating how bad ass Quorin is, or B) When he's with Ygritte and co. At least, that's what my gut is telling me. And my gut has never been wrong, damnitt! 

 

What I'm really curious about, however, is how Jamie's attempted jail break is gonna play out. You just know that'll be in there. As will Littlefinger manipulating the Tyrell's into supporting the Lannisters. 

 

 

post #758 of 4320

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph P. Brenner View Post

a lot of new interviews

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd View Post

Quote:

What I'm really curious about, however, is how Jamie's attempted jail break is gonna play out.


According to the interview above at 7:43, his favorite scene is from episode 7 so that might be it. Although some people have been guessing that D&D have actually moved up Jaime's hand being cut off into season 2 and that's the scene NCW is referring to instead.

post #759 of 4320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd View Post
B) When he's with Ygritte and co. At least, that's what my gut is telling me. 


That's another thing I've been surprised about. My memory's a bit hazy, but Ygritte only puts in a brief appearance in book 2, right? Yet there's an awful lot to suggest she's a bigger character this season than she otherwise would be. I suspect they've beefed up her part and that's part of Jon's expanded storyline. I'm guessing she leads them to Mance Rayder. Maybe, if they wanted to change things radically, she's even in on Jon's little undercover operation? I'm not crazy about that idea (I think the whole point of the character is to test Jon's loyalties) but I can see it happening.

post #760 of 4320

I doubt very much they will let Ygritte know about it.

 

That would completely change her character, and the tragic end to their relationship. 

 

I am curious to the timeline of Jon's activities this season. I'm a bit foggy on the details, but when does he run into Ygritte? It could be as early as half-way into the season. But probably episode 6 or 7.

post #761 of 4320

I honestly don't remember a single thing involving Jon from this book. In fact, in retrospect, it seems like the entire Jon story occurs in Storm of Swords. I guess he'll have to return, or what was the point of having him at all, but despite really liking the Wall and the Night's Watch and Mance Rayder, it's always seemed the plotline Martin has had the hardest time integrating into the narrative as a whole, much more so than Dany for me. I guess now that Winter has come, he's about to tip his hole card.

post #762 of 4320

SPOILERS! You might not want to read this untill you've read A DANCE WITH DRAGONS.

 

New Sample Chapter from THE WINDS OF WINTER!

 

Looks like Dany has got some unexpected backup and a double cross is on the way.

post #763 of 4320

Seriously wondering if I should read that or not.  I usually hate these little cockteases but GAH!  

 

 

But funnily enough I'm actually looking forward to the Night's Watch segments the most.  There's so many great scenes;  Craster's Keep, The stand at the Fist of The First Men, Sam getting his hero moment with the dragon glass.  It's actually easy to forget that GOT is pretty much just set up for the massive shitstorm (of swords) that's gonna hit with the next two-three seasons.    

post #764 of 4320

Martin said in a recent interview that we'll be getting a big Ice Walker battle in the next book. As for Dany, Her City under Siege problem will be solved relatively early. I expect she'll make her move back to Westaros real soon. 

post #765 of 4320
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post

Martin said in a recent interview that we'll be getting a big Ice Walker battle in the next book. As for Dany, Her City under Siege problem will be solved relatively early. I expect she'll make her move back to Westaros real soon. 



Shit, you're telling me the Wights have Imperial AT-AT's too?!!! biggrin.gif

post #766 of 4320
post #767 of 4320

Of all the scenes in Season 2, I think I am most looking forward to Jonn killing Qhorin Halfhand near the end (though it's probably been moved up slightly). Surrounded on all sides by Wildings and Halfhand flat up says 'Kill me and become a spy.' One of my all time favorite moments in the novels so far. Just struck me as so bitterly personal.

post #768 of 4320


Some really interesting stuff in that article, particularly the idea that we'll get to see where the White Walkers come from. It was an interesting question mark, but it wasn't something the narrative so far demanded we see. The fact that it's even an issue definitely makes me curious.

post #769 of 4320

There's a lot that they can play around with as far as timeline goes North of the Wall, since it doesn't necessarily tie in explicitly with what is happening at King's Landing, etc. If I remember correctly, Jon (after leaving the Wall at the end of Season 1) doesn't return back to the wall until the end of Book 3. That's a lot of time spent away from the Wall, and I think some of the stuff up North could be sped up. 

 

My brother and wife saw episode 1 of Season 2 last night and said that Jon and company meet Craster in it, but I can't remember how quickly that happened in the books. 

post #770 of 4320

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

Some really interesting stuff in that article, particularly the idea that we'll get to see where the White Walkers come from. It was an interesting question mark, but it wasn't something the narrative so far demanded we see. The fact that it's even an issue definitely makes me curious.


Oh man, that letter Jon got from the people he sent via ship north of the wall...totally got a great horror movie vibe from it. 

 

Does anybody think we'll see a sort of White Walker leader type person? Someone who's in charge? The Other who's name we must not speak? Or are they all merely just other wordly beings with no hierarchy whatsoever? 

 

Whatever the deal is with the White Walkers, I'd say at least ONE person in Westeros is in on it. My money's on the Crow's Eye. Dude seems like the type of person to play with forces beyond his understanding. 

 

Oh, and can we get a Jon Snow v.s. Undead Wight Thorne showdown? 

post #771 of 4320

Melisandre--I think--mentioned that R'hllor is opposed by an evil godlike figure called the Great Other, so yes, the Walkers presumably have a leader.

 

It's also important to bear in mind that--though it's not 100% clear in the books--the zombies and the Others are two different things. The thing Sam encounters and kills in book 3 is an Other, which are clearly more intelligent and evil than the zombies, who are just footsoldiers. It's also suggested that whatever killed the Rangers at the very beginning was an Other (and there are screencaps of that sequence in the pilot that have been tweaked to show some kind of...wizened...thing...that doesn't look much like the standard-issue ice zombies.) The whole mythology there is definitely something that needs to be addressed, though I wouldn't have objected too much if it had come from the Red Priests and Priestesses and left the Walkers themselves as a perpetually opaque, mysterious force. But part of me wants a scene where they get to interrogate an Other, dammit!

post #772 of 4320
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

Melisandre--I think--mentioned that R'hllor is opposed by an evil godlike figure called the Great Other, so yes, the Walkers presumably have a leader.

 

It's also important to bear in mind that--though it's not 100% clear in the books--the zombies and the Others are two different things. The thing Sam encounters and kills in book 3 is an Other, which are clearly more intelligent and evil than the zombies, who are just footsoldiers. It's also suggested that whatever killed the Rangers at the very beginning was an Other (and there are screencaps of that sequence in the pilot that have been tweaked to show some kind of...wizened...thing...that doesn't look much like the standard-issue ice zombies.) The whole mythology there is definitely something that needs to be addressed, though I wouldn't have objected too much if it had come from the Red Priests and Priestesses and left the Walkers themselves as a perpetually opaque, mysterious force. But part of me wants a scene where they get to interrogate an Other, dammit!


Just like actors will almost certainly be recast throughout the seasons, I think when the white walkers come back into the show they will look very different from what the white walker looked like in the pilot. Even the pilot itself was almost entirely reshot after they recast Dany and Catelyn.

 

The white walker in the pilot was also played by the actor who's playing the mountain in season 2.

 

I'm also hoping they improve the sound effects of the white walkers by using something similar to this:

 

post #773 of 4320

By the way, one of Martin's masterstrokes with this series is that the character who most obviously slots into the Gandalf/Obi-Wan/Dumbledore role--the wise mystic figure with the crucial knowledge and magical power to stand against the baddies, who helps the otherwise hapless heroes--is Melisandre. Who's introduced to us as basically pure evil and, despite becoming somewhat more sympathetic as the books go on, still seems a long way from trustworthy. You get the sense that as soon as the ice zombies are defeated she's going to take a shot at enslaving everyone with, I dunno, fire zombies.

post #774 of 4320

Actually, won't the Maesters in Oldtown be our Obi-Wan type characters? You know, the dudes who are in the know about not just the White Walkers but Dany and her dragons and what role they have to play as well? Though what I'm really curious about is just what Jaquen H'ghar is doing posing as Pate down there. More specifically, who hired him. Once again, my money's on the Crow's Eye, people!

post #775 of 4320

S2-ratings.jpg

post #776 of 4320

Hurm.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd View Post

Actually, won't the Maesters in Oldtown be our Obi-Wan type characters? You know, the dudes who are in the know about not just the White Walkers but Dany and her dragons and what role they have to play as well? Though what I'm really curious about is just what Jaquen H'ghar is doing posing as Pate down there. More specifically, who hired him. Once again, my money's on the Crow's Eye, people!


Oh is that what happened? Fuck me, I didn't put two and two together. Totally need to reread that opening with that information in mind.

 

I do like how they had not cast Hager at the end of season 1, so they just put a cloak over his head.

 

post #777 of 4320
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

Melisandre--I think--mentioned that R'hllor is opposed by an evil godlike figure called the Great Other, so yes, the Walkers presumably have a leader.

 

It's also important to bear in mind that--though it's not 100% clear in the books--the zombies and the Others are two different things. The thing Sam encounters and kills in book 3 is an Other, which are clearly more intelligent and evil than the zombies, who are just footsoldiers. It's also suggested that whatever killed the Rangers at the very beginning was an Other (and there are screencaps of that sequence in the pilot that have been tweaked to show some kind of...wizened...thing...that doesn't look much like the standard-issue ice zombies.) 


What? I'm shocked that there are ASOIAF readers that still haven't gotten the *clear* message that Others/White walkers are separate from the Whights/Zombies. The book is pretty darn clear about that! Not just hinting about it.

 

Again, since people are foggy on this:

 - White Walkers (or Others in the books) - *not* human, but powerful. Their only known weakness is dragon glass.

 - Whights (or "ice zombies") - DEAD humans or animals, controlled by the White Walkers. (They are not independent foot soldiers, they are essentially dead flesh being "warged") Their only known weakness is fire.

post #778 of 4320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperspace View Post


What? I'm shocked that there are ASOIAF readers that still haven't gotten the *clear* message that Others/White walkers are separate from the Whights/Zombies. The book is pretty darn clear about that! Not just hinting about it.

 

Again, since people are foggy on this:

 - White Walkers (or Others in the books) - *not* human, but powerful. Their only known weakness is dragon glass.

 - Whights (or "ice zombies") - DEAD humans or animals, controlled by the White Walkers. (They are not independent foot soldiers, they are essentially dead flesh being "warged") Their only known weakness is fire.


I'm mostly finished with the third book, and while I've made the same conclusion you have up above, it's not quite as clear as you're making it out to be. Martin's prose is too dense for things to be broken down that simply. And the term "white walker" could easily be applied to the zombies because they're described as frozen and pale with icy-blue eyes. It's not that much of a stretch for one to argue this might be somewhat obscured.

The deserter from the first book says he fled because of "others," but doesn't specify between the thing that killed the rest of his party or the group of dead back to life he's seen. It's not like he said "it was the others...oh, and I saw some Whights too!" The "whights" don't show up as a term until they come to the wall and Jon Snow kills them, but at that point Martin doesn't make a clear distinction (possibly because Jon has seen the whights, but hasn't seen "the white walkers.") The clearest example of the difference comes in book 3, when the nights watch blows the horn to signal that the others have come. It's the first time they've seen others, but they've all seen the "whights" before because they attacked the lord commander. Again, makes sense, but isn't 100% perfectly clear, especially considering that we barely ever see the others do much of anything in the book because so many people do nothing but RUN from them, and the zombies they create.

 

post #779 of 4320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post


I'm mostly finished with the third book.


Keep reading. I'm surprised you are partaking in this thread without having read all the books, but that is your choice.

 

From the ASOIAF Wiki: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Others (spoilers for all books obviously)

post #780 of 4320

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Happenin 


Oh is that what happened? Fuck me, I didn't put two and two together. Totally need to reread that opening with that information in mind.

 

I do like how they had not cast Hager at the end of season 1, so they just put a cloak over his head.

 


 

Granted, it's not 100% confirmed that the faceless man posing as Pate IS Hager, but the description of his face was very similar to the face he put on when he left Arya. Maybe they just all share the same faces. 

 

And no worries about not putting two and two together! To my embarrassment, it took me forever to catch on that Abel and his washerwomen were really Mance and some spear wives! When that section came up I was all like "Who is this random guy and when the hell is Mance showing up?" Idiot! 

post #781 of 4320

It would be hilarious if when they casting announcement for Mance Rayder is made, we can rewind to the first episode and catch a glimpse of the actor. That would be some epic planning ahead. :-)

post #782 of 4320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd View Post

Actually, won't the Maesters in Oldtown be our Obi-Wan type characters? You know, the dudes who are in the know about not just the White Walkers but Dany and her dragons and what role they have to play as well?


Well, I'm talking about the characters as they exist right now. But also, I got the impression that the Oldtown Maesters are actually kind of resentful about the magic that's creeping into the world. They liked being the scientific specialists, and they might see Dany and the rest as enemies.

 

post #783 of 4320

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

Well, I'm talking about the characters as they exist right now. But also, I got the impression that the Oldtown Maesters are actually kind of resentful about the magic that's creeping into the world. They liked being the scientific specialists, and they might see Dany and the rest as enemies.

 

Absolutely loved it that, after traveling such a long way to bring crucial information about the coming doom of the White Walkers, Sam is told to wait in the lobby and fill out some forms. 
 

 

post #784 of 4320

 

post #785 of 4320

Let's be honest, we all want to see Arya grown up, fully trained and going apeshit on some punks.  My personal prediction is she leaves the monastery early and has to contend with them putting a hit out on her in addition to all the Westeros drama.  Can't wait to find out!

post #786 of 4320
post #787 of 4320

Spoilahspace

SpoilERspace

Randomnonsense.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kernel View Post

Let's be honest, we all want to see Arya grown up, fully trained and going apeshit on some punks.  My personal prediction is she leaves the monastery early and has to contend with them putting a hit out on her in addition to all the Westeros drama.  Can't wait to find out!


I'm hoping for the far-too-easy, never-going-to-happen-in-a-million-years moment of Arya's first assignment being "Walder Frey."

 

post #788 of 4320

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post

Spoilahspace

SpoilERspace

Randomnonsense.
 


I'm hoping for the far-too-easy, never-going-to-happen-in-a-million-years moment of Arya's first assignment being "Walder Frey."

 

I've always thought the epilogue of Winds of Winter should be a Walder Frey POV where he awakens to find his entire family dead. And Arya standing over them, bloody Needle in hand. 

 

Perhaps too similar to the epilogue of Storm of Swords though. 

 

And I thought, with all the Dany goings on, that Arya's assignment would be to assassinate this dragon lady in Meeren who's causing too much trouble and has a penchant for taking in lost children. 
 

 

post #789 of 4320


Spoiler!

Maybe!

Might be!

Redrum!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post

Spoilahspace

SpoilERspace

Randomnonsense.
 


I'm hoping for the far-too-easy, never-going-to-happen-in-a-million-years moment of Arya's first assignment being "Walder Frey."

 


Though I don't think it would ever happen, I love this idea so much I want to make fanfiction love to it.

 

If I drink enough, maybe some slash fanfiction love.

 

post #790 of 4320

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

 

I think if anyone's going to take down Walder Frey, it'll be Lady Stoneheart (OK, maybe she won't literally be the one to stick a knife in him, but it'll be at her behest.)

 

I also see Tyrion being the one to take HER down, since she's probably going to cross over into villainhood any time now. I actually love the way that was set up: when we first meet Tyrion and Cat, and he develops a grudge against her, we're worried about Cat because Tyrion's closer to being a bad guy, or at least morally ambiguous, at that point. But as the story's gone on, Tyrion's threat to get his revenge on her now seems like something that's going to be for everyone's benefit.

post #791 of 4320

The early reviews of S2 can't seem to agree on whether this season features more or less "sexposition", though it sounds like it's handled better this time out at least.

 

Also, I've been hearing a lot of praise for Margaery Tyrell as a character and Natalie Dormer as an actress. It sounds like she might be this season's Bronn, a character who went from being a cypher to being a fan favourite.

post #792 of 4320

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

 

I think if anyone's going to take down Walder Frey, it'll be Lady Stoneheart (OK, maybe she won't literally be the one to stick a knife in him, but it'll be at her behest.)

 

I also see Tyrion being the one to take HER down, since she's probably going to cross over into villainhood any time now. I actually love the way that was set up: when we first meet Tyrion and Cat, and he develops a grudge against her, we're worried about Cat because Tyrion's closer to being a bad guy, or at least morally ambiguous, at that point. But as the story's gone on, Tyrion's threat to get his revenge on her now seems like something that's going to be for everyone's benefit.


Nah man, we all know it's heading towards a Jon Snow/Lady Stoneheart confrontation! But not before a scene where she confronts Littlefinger...perhaps with Sansa being horrified at what she's become? And of course, we have to have our reformed monk Hound vs. Steampunk Zombie Mountain fight! Gah, the possibilities! 

 

post #793 of 4320
post #794 of 4320
It almost seems very un-Game of Thrones to give any of these one to one face offs. If Walder Frey is going down, it will probably be at the hands of the last person you'd expect, like Davos, or maybe random brigands or something.

And what's this about not liking Lady Stoneheart? Fuck that shit.
post #795 of 4320

Spoilers space for those

too ridiculous to not skip

this when looking through the forums
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post

And what's this about not liking Lady Stoneheart? Fuck that shit.


Seriously. I love some Lady Stoneheart. I can't wait to see them all come back together. I want Walder Frey, especially as done by actor David Bradley, to squirm before the life is driven out. While reading, I imagined a whiny, petulant Jabba the Hutt-- a round, gouty man. But the weasel thinness of the actor puts a different spin on it.  I also can't wait to see Lord Manderly's largesse get his revenge...two seasons from now. The Theon storyline is just starting to get great.

post #796 of 4320

Who said anything about not liking her? I just said she's well on her way to being a villain.

 

I think certain conflicts have been too strongly foreshadowed not to have some kind of faceoff. The Frankenmountain thing is the most obvious example, but Martin really does build up a "this ain't over" vibe between Tyrion and Cat in the first book--that's the first appearance of the whole "Lannisters always pay their debts" business.

 

And yes, having spent five books scattering the characters further and further apart, it's going to be very satisfying in the next two books to finally see them starting to come back together again. Of course, this seems to be the source of his writer's block, so...

post #797 of 4320

post #798 of 4320

otakuassemble's review

 

post #799 of 4320

post #800 of 4320
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Television
CHUD.com Community › Forums › SPORTS, GAMES & LEISURE › Television › "Official" Game Of Thrones Discussion for those who have read the books.