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Richard Stark a.k.a. Donald E. Westlake

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 

I have been going through the Parker novels( I'm up to number 10), and it been a blast following the exploits of such a great character.  He is hardboiled and nasty-and I guess you could say he's a sociopath, but he has his own set of code of honor-at least when it comes to his criminal craft.

 

From the library I have the first three Grofield novels and the first three Dortmunder ones. Grofield was introduced in THE SEVENTH Parker novel, and his goofball sense of humor is a nice contrast to the stoic Parker.  I can't wait to see where his series goes.  I understand there is a lot of James-Bondish globe trotting. 

 

Anyway, here is a thread for discussion of Westlake's greatest characters and your thoughts on his books. 

post #2 of 36
Thread Starter 

This thread, of course, can also be used to discuss the movie adaptations. POINT BLANK is the best, but I think my favorite is THE SPLIT.

post #3 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post

I have been going through the Parker novels( I'm up to number 10), and it been a blast following the exploits of such a great character.  He is hardboiled and nasty-and I guess you could say he's a sociopath, but he has his own set of code of honor-at least when it comes to his criminal craft.

 

From the library I have the first three Grofield novels and the first three Dortmunder ones. Grofield was introduced in THE SEVENTH Parker novel, and his goofball sense of humor is a nice contrast to the stoic Parker.  I can't wait to see where his series goes.  I understand there is a lot of James-Bondish globe trotting. 

 

Anyway, here is a thread for discussion of Westlake's greatest characters and your thoughts on his books. 



A bunch of the reprints have authors doing an intro the books which you can read on Amazon.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Green-Eagle-Score-Parker-Novels/dp/0226771083/ref=sr_1_13?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1303163744&sr=1-13

 

This is a good one where Dennis Lehane makes the great point that there's never a winking moment in the novels where it shows that Parker isn't that bad.  A character like Parker is still pretty unique even though there have been dozens of copycats.

 

I always liked that in The Hunter, he goes after the people that betrayed him...and he had been planning to betray and kill them first.

 

Parker is the ultimate predator, a shark that was born as a predator.

 

I always liked Dortmunder better(Who was every bit as much a professional as Parker, but Westlake always said he thought Dortmunder was the more realistic character because bad luck does happen), but Parker was an amazing creation.

 

I wrote an essay about Westlake's work for his obituary.

 

http://therapsheet.blogspot.com/2009/01/nobody-runs-forever-last-good-bye-to.html

 

Part 2:

 

http://therapsheet.blogspot.com/2009/01/nobody-runs-forever-last-good-bye-to_11.html

 

I still think Westlake's Drowned Hopes is the best comedy ever written. It's absolutely hilarious and just builds and builds.

post #4 of 36

Devin gets why  Statham is a terrible choice. He'll wink at the audience too much. http://www.badassdigest.com/2011/04/18/jason-statham-sadly-cast-as-donald-westlakes-parker Article also reminded me I need to see the director's cut of Payback.

 

I was thinking either Eric Bana (See Hanna! Munich!) or Tom Hardy would be better.

 

 

post #5 of 36

It's so hard for me to picture any one but Lee Marvin as Parker. I saw Point Blank before reading any of the books ans the image has always stuck with me. There's really no one else who can pull off the coldness along with the hardend edge quite like Marvin.

post #6 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Hughes View Post

Devin gets why  Statham is a terrible choice. He'll wink at the audience too much. http://www.badassdigest.com/2011/04/18/jason-statham-sadly-cast-as-donald-westlakes-parker Article also reminded me I need to see the director's cut of Payback.

 

I was thinking either Eric Bana (See Hanna! Munich!) or Tom Hardy would be better.

 

 



Damn, Jack Palance would've made a killer Parker.

post #7 of 36
Thread Starter 

My favorite Parker novel: THE GREEN EAGLE SCORE (but I can't wait to get to BUTCHER'S MOON, I understand it's epic) Runner-ups: "The Man With The Getaway Face" and "The Rare Coin Score"

 

Most Awesomely Cinematic Parker: Lee Marvin (No contest) However, and maybe it's just my superfandom, but I also love Mel Gibson's take. I read the novels in his voice.

 

Worst Movie Parker: Easy, Peter Coyote. Parker isn't a wimp!

 

Dream Movie Parker We Didn't Get: 80's Nick Nolte

 

 

 

 

post #8 of 36

This blog is kind of cool: http://violentworldofparker.com/ There's a section for all the Parker adaptations and then the "not quite" Parker adaptations, which are movies like The Limey and The Driver and Charley Varrick, which have Parker-like main characters. A lot of them (like The Limey) are decidedly more Point Blank influenced than Stark influenced. There's a lot of helpful Stark/Westlake related info on that site. Worth checking out.

 

Reminds me I still haven't seen The Outfit from Warner Archives. Always seemed like a great combo of John Flynn and Duvall, but I don't hear people talking it up much (which might also be due to its relative scarcity) . Worth seeing?

 

I heard a story once that Stephen Frears wanted Westlake to be credited as Richard Stark on The Grifters screenplay, but either cause of union or academy rules they had to go with Westlake...which is good for Westlake, but would have been a fun sort of in-joke for crime book readers.

 

Oh, and this Jason Statham news pretty much stinks. Bana's probably a good choice. Definitely needs to be someone you're not sure of. Statham is too likable.

post #9 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post

My favorite Parker novel: THE GREEN EAGLE SCORE (but I can't wait to get to BUTCHER'S MOON, I understand it's epic) Runner-ups: "The Man With The Getaway Face" and "The Rare Coin Score"

 

Most Awesomely Cinematic Parker: Lee Marvin (No contest) However, and maybe it's just my superfandom, but I also love Mel Gibson's take. I read the novels in his voice.

 

Worst Movie Parker: Easy, Peter Coyote. Parker isn't a wimp!

 

Dream Movie Parker We Didn't Get: 80's Nick Nolte

 

 

 

 



I can't wait to get my hands on Butcher's Moon either. It used to be the epitome of RARE AND FREAKIN' EXPENSIVE.

post #10 of 36

How has Parker (the CHUD member) not commented yet?

 

Shout-out to Darwyn Cooke's recent graphic novel adaptations. I've only read his The Hunter, and it's very classy and Steranko-esque. Also love his Selina's Big Score, which features Catwoman robbing a train with a Parker-like character named...Stark.

 

I need to get back into these books. I read the first four books, then picked up again with Comeback. I need to fill in the middle.

post #11 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

How has Parker (the CHUD member) not commented yet?


Sorry!  But honestly, as big of a fan as I am, there are bigger, better fans on these boards (including Cameron up there...as well as the guy who got me into the Parker novels/Westlake to begin with). 

I agree that Statham is a bad choice, but if a good director could cut down his mugging he could do a capable job like Gibson does in the best moments of both versions of Payback.  But the problem with all of these choices (Statham, Hardy, Bana which I actually think is the worst of the bunch) is that none of them are American.  I know they could all pull off the accents, but that's not the point.  I don't mean to be xenophobic, but I think Parker is a uniquely American character and needs to pull off a certain amount of American grit; an appealing amount of danger.  Chaos surrounded y cool control.   And yeah, I know Gibson was Australian too...but barely by the point that he made Payback. 

I honestly can't think of a good modern American actor that could do it though.  Everybody is too much of a weenie.  I'll think about it. 

I also have never read Butcher's Moon.  Gotta get on that. 

 

post #12 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post




Sorry!  But honestly, as big of a fan as I am, there are bigger, better fans on these boards (including Cameron up there...as well as the guy who got me into the Parker novels/Westlake to begin with). 

I agree that Statham is a bad choice, but if a good director could cut down his mugging he could do a capable job like Gibson does in the best moments of both versions of Payback.  But the problem with all of these choices (Statham, Hardy, Bana which I actually think is the worst of the bunch) is that none of them are American.  I know they could all pull off the accents, but that's not the point.  I don't mean to be xenophobic, but I think Parker is a uniquely American character and needs to pull off a certain amount of American grit; an appealing amount of danger.  Chaos surrounded y cool control.   And yeah, I know Gibson was Australian too...but barely by the point that he made Payback. 

I honestly can't think of a good modern American actor that could do it though.  Everybody is too much of a weenie.  I'll think about it. 

I also have never read Butcher's Moon.  Gotta get on that. 

 




I was thinking about American actors last night, and here are my unconventional choices

 

6-Degrees-To-Kevin-Bacon-Calculator.jpg

 

 

michael_shannon.jpg

 

Lights-Out_0111_1.jpg

 

"His hands swinging curve-fingered at his sides, looked like they were molded from brown clay by a sculptor who thought big and liked veins. His hair was brown and dry and dead, blowing around like a bad toupee about to fly loose.  His face was a chipped chunk of concrete, with eyes of flawed onyx. His mouth was a quick stroke, bloodless."

 

I think this could fit Kevin Bacon really well.

 

post #13 of 36


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Hughes View Post






I was thinking about American actors last night, and here are my unconventional choices

 

6-Degrees-To-Kevin-Bacon-Calculator.jpg

 

 

michael_shannon.jpg

 

Lights-Out_0111_1.jpg

 

"His hands swinging curve-fingered at his sides, looked like they were molded from brown clay by a sculptor who thought big and liked veins. His hair was brown and dry and dead, blowing around like a bad toupee about to fly loose.  His face was a chipped chunk of concrete, with eyes of flawed onyx. His mouth was a quick stroke, bloodless."

 

I think this could fit Kevin Bacon really well.

 



Eh, I think Bacon is too scrawny and gaunt, Shannon too bug-eyed (he's got the crazed but not the tough) and I'm not even sure who the last dude is but...maybe it's the picture, but I'm not buying it.

post #14 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post


 



Eh, I think Bacon is too scrawny and gaunt, Shannon too bug-eyed (he's got the crazed but not the tough) and I'm not even sure who the last dude is but...maybe it's the picture, but I'm not buying it.


Last guy is the lead from the one season FX wonder Lights Out.

 

post #15 of 36
I need to read more of the Parker series, so far I'm up to The Mourner. I think Statham can play a hardass in his sleep (I'm biased, so sue me) but Taylor Hackford is pretty much by the numbers, I don't really see this being anything but an average thriller. If I could cast anyone as Parker, I'd probably go with Jon Hamm, not the most imaginative choice.
post #16 of 36

Now I can't stop thinking of an '80s Nick Nolte Parker. Maybe with Walter Hill at the helm? James Remar in a prominent role? Dang.

post #17 of 36

I'm willing to give Statham a shot, even if he isn't American and smirks a lot. What annoys me is that the filmmakers have chosen to go back to The Hunter for a third go-round. Enough already.

 

FULL CONTACT has little to do with Stark. It was most likely inspired by JOHNNY HANDSOME, itself based on a novel by John Godey.

 

Another source of inspiration for these "not quite Parker" knock-offs is Ted Lewis' novel Jack's Return Home and its various film adaptations (both versions of GET CARTER and George Armitage's HIT MAN). Chang Cheh's VENGEANCE plays like a combination of POINT BLANK and GET CARTER.

 

 

 

post #18 of 36

The Godey and Lewis books are highly recommended, btw, and should be the next stop when you've finished with Stark. Lewis also wrote two prequels featuring the character of Jack Carter, but I haven't read either of them.

post #19 of 36

After becoming aware of Parker from Stephen King's The Dark Half I gradually obtained (through several libraries and used book dealers) and read all the books. Parker remains a unique protagonist; very few (if any) genuinely redeeming qualities and a willingness to do anything - including torture (though he doesn't like it) and murder - to get what he needs. I'm unsure of his bodycount, but after 30-odd novels he's killed dozens of people. In The Heist he has a conversation with a female 'hostage' (by this point the lady has been thoroughly charmed by Parker's fellow thief Grofield) at the edge of quarry, asking if she's willing to leave her old life entirely behind, and it's obvious that if she says the wrong thing he'll just push her over the edge to her death. In The Jugger he murders a teenaged boy (albeit a killer in his own right) with his bare hands. Not your usual protagonist.

 

The Green Eagle Score is one of my favorites, in that is shows how a novice criminal (Stan Devers) enters this lifestyle. Stan shows up later in one or two other Parker novels, obviously having become established in the career criminal community, which I thought was a nice bit of evolution. Although each novel can be read as a standalone tale there is definite developments in Parker's (and other's) fortunes and relationships. Parker makes and loses money, eventually finds a stable relationship with a woman who knows exactly what he is, friends retire and come back. These people have lives and histories, and this depth helps elevate the stories a little.

 

Because I'm the kind of guy who visualizes stories as I read them, Parker has always been played by Chris Meloni in my head. I first saw Meloni on Oz, and the sociopathic Chris Keller became my template for Parker; I've tried others in the role but Meloni (minus any cheerfulness) works best for me. Parker's early partner Handy McKay was portrayed by Mickey Rourke, Ed and Brenda Mackey were played by Joe Pesci and Marissa Tomei (it works in my head!), actor/thief Grofield was played to perfection by Dennis Quaid, and Stan Devers was played by Ryan Reynolds.

post #20 of 36
I've always pictured Scott Glenn as Handy McKay.
post #21 of 36

Really? 

 

'Cause I can see Scott Glenn playing Parker. He basically plays Parker in NIGHT OF THE RUNNING MAN.

 

Grofield is suave, something of a snob and a theatre type. Think Kevin Kline around the time of A FISH CALLED WANDA. 

post #22 of 36
Thread Starter 

My Grofield is early 70's Jeff Bridges.

 

post #23 of 36

Butcher's Moon, 1975: Charles Bronson as Parker and James Coburn as Grofield. Walter Hill, director.

post #24 of 36

Elvis and Nekkerbee mentioned The Green Eagle Score. Does anyone else want to jump in with favorites?

 

The Seventh is one that I've gone back to a number of times. The plot nearly tips into farce in the way characters are picked off by the cops as they search for a suitcase of dirty money. A rare entry in the series where Parker's mistakes set a bloodbath in motion; though, as usual, our hero doesn't give a damn about his cohorts. The jealous ex-lover who pins Ellie to a headboard is a slippery bastard of a villain, and the recurring 7 is a nice touch: seventh book, seven crooks, seven shares, and possibly Parker's seventh laugh.


Edited by Malmordo - 5/6/11 at 12:45pm
post #25 of 36

Speaking of numbers, the series can be sectioned into groups of eight.

 

Following Book 8 (The Handle), Stark/Westlake creates his first and only spin-off series. In the next book, The Rare Coin Score, Parker begins his first steady relationship since The Hunter.

 

Following Book 16, Butcher's Moon, there is a 23-year hiatus until Comeback. The series is now very different, and not just because Parker has to deal with the technological hurdles of the 90s and 00s.

 

Dirty Money concludes a trilogy of sorts, and ends the series at Book 24.


Edited by Malmordo - 5/7/11 at 1:37am
post #26 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malmordo View Post

Elvis and Nekkerbee mentioned The Green Eagle Score. Does anyone else want to jump in with favorites?

 

The Seventh is one that I've gone back to a number of times. The plot nearly tips into farce in the way characters are picked off by the cops as they search for a suitcase of dirty money. A rare entry in the series where Parker's mistakes set a bloodbath in motion; though, as usual, our hero doesn't give a damn about his cohorts. The jealous ex-lover who pins Ellie to a headboard is a slippery bastard of a villain, and the recurring 7 is a nice touch: seventh book, seven crooks, seven shares, and possibly Parker's seventh laugh.


Just read "Deadly Edge" this afternoon. I think it's my new favorite. The ending is so brutal and cold-blooded it cracked me up!
 

 

post #27 of 36

Word on the street is the Jason Statham movie will be based on Flashfire:

 

http://violentworldofparker.com/?p=4737

 

One of the weakest books in the series.

post #28 of 36

Is that the one that takes place in Florida? Palm Beach maybe? I don't remember if I liked that one or not. I am glad it's not The Hunter again though.

post #29 of 36

Yeah, Palm Beach. It's also the one with that annoying real estate agent, who basically gets a leading role.

post #30 of 36

That's right. I'm guessing my weak memory for it probably means I wasn't crazy about it. I recall enjoying the next one, Firebreak, though.

post #31 of 36

I enjoyed Firebreak as well.

 

I'd be interested to read some opinions on solo Grofield adventures. I found the first three oddly -- for Stark -- repetitive and dull, with only The Dame scoring points in its first half as a humorous locked-room mystery in the Agatha Christie mold (and Grofield repeatedly accusing a gangster's right-hand of murder becomes an amusing joke), before it turns into one long car chase.

 

Lemons Never Lie is pure genius. I wonder if this novel was originally intended to be Parker's; unlike the other Grofields, it is plenty bleak, even creepy at times.

post #32 of 36

"The Score," is the weakest Parker novel.  It's the closest Stark comes to a wink-wink-nudge-nudge moment.  When I picked up Duane Swierczynski's "The Wheelman," I thought I'd found a worthy successor but his third act goes straight to hell. 

 

As to previous posts, I still believe Lee Marvin was the perfect Parker.  Scott Glenn, Samuel Jackson, and Tommy Lee Jones all have the required edge to do the job as well.

post #33 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malmordo View Post

 

 

I'd be interested to read some opinions on solo Grofield adventures. I found the first three oddly -- for Stark -- repetitive and dull, with only The Dame scoring points in its first half as a humorous locked-room mystery in the Agatha Christie mold (and Grofield repeatedly accusing a gangster's right-hand of murder becomes an amusing joke), before it turns into one long car chase.

 

Lemons Never Lie is pure genius. I wonder if this novel was originally intended to be Parker's; unlike the other Grofields, it is plenty bleak, even creepy at times.



I love the Grofields so far, with oddly enough "The Dame' being my least fave. (I thought "The Damsel" was Grofield at his funniest, there's almost screwball-like diologue. I know that turns off the Parker hardcore, but I dig. There's room in the Stark universe for both characters and tones) Tonight I read "Lemons Never Lie", and to say I'm looking forward to it is an understatement. It has a "Butcher's Moon" level reputation.

 

The impressive thing about the Parkers is there's a sense of escalation and character layering with each novel; Westlake keeps topping himself. My latest fave is "Slayground". It has a DIE HARD worthy set up, and is just edge of your seat suspenseful.

 

post #34 of 36

Brian Garfield talks about adapting Butcher's Moon:

 

BG: Butcher's Moon, the book, was bought by 20th Century Fox. Charles Bronson had an estate across the Hudson River from Albany, and he'd agreed to do Butcher's Moon if it could be filmed in and around Albany so he could commute to work. Michael Winner had said he'd direct Butcher's Moon as his next project. These elements were all in place when Don recommended that Fox hire me to write the script; I'd just written the introduction for the book of Butcher's Moon, and my Death Wish was just then being filmed in New York with Bronson, directed by Michael Winner.
 
I was not a first-class screenwriter then. I don't remember feeling challenged by the "overstuffedness" of it. Don's sense of story structure was superb, and I'm sure my script must have followed the book—perhaps too closely, but I don't remember being confused or put off by the number of characters. I'd read most, perhaps all, of the previous Parker novels, and I do remember combining several characters and simplifying some of the off-screen back-story, but that didn't seem too challenging.
 
I probably turned in a serviceable second draft, but by then I think the subject had become moot. The producers had cooled, Bronson had cooled, and Winner had finished filming Death Wish—a movie that both Don and I, having seen it in screenings, disliked. It became a huge hit in the summer of '74, at a time when I was in Africa researching something else. I sort of understand the appeal of the movie—it had an excellent screenplay by Wendell Mayes—but I thought it was a hasty and indifferent job of filmmaking. I suppose Don and I both failed to hide our disappointment with the movie, so it's not too surprising that both Bronson and Winner walked away. Without them, I gather Fox had very little interest in pursuing the project.

Full interview:
post #35 of 36

THE SPLIT (1968), a decent adaptation of The Seventh starring Jim Brown and a remarkable cast of old pros (including Gene Hackman, Warren Oates, and Donald Sutherland) has finally arrived on DVD from the Warner Archive:

 

http://www.wbshop.com/Split-The/1000277709,default,pd.html?cgid=

 

post #36 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malmordo View Post

THE SPLIT (1968), a decent adaptation of The Seventh starring Jim Brown and a remarkable cast of old pros (including Gene Hackman, Warren Oates, and Donald Sutherland) has finally arrived on DVD from the Warner Archive:

 

http://www.wbshop.com/Split-The/1000277709,default,pd.html?cgid=

 



Cool film. I'm definitely picking it up.

 

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