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TINTIN TRAILER STILL NOT EAGER TO SHOW THOSE FACES (+ HD STILLS) - Page 2

post #51 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Custer View Post

 

L.A. Noire might make for a great video game, but I'd be furious if I paid to see a film featuring animated actors that moved so stiffly, looked so doll-like and inexpressive. Gollum worked, in part, because (a) he was juxtaposed against real people and real places and (b) because he was stylized. Imagine a LoTR where Sam, Frodo, Gandalf and the rest of the human characters were ALL Mocapped. Why would a sane person bother doing that when they have brilliant, living, breathing actors capable of bringing those characters to full life?

 

 

Not saying that Gollum's a 1:1 guarantee of nailing mo-cap, but I do think that technology can get to the point where maybe the uncanny valley is not totally crossable, but instead we can launch things over to the other side. With a catapult. I get your point about LOTR being filled with real actors though. In that sense, I'd look to animation or whatever the heck they did with Avatar (which looks like animation/hyper-realistic but actually done with mo-cap.) I mean, this is supposed to be a cartoon, right?

 

My only point with LA Noire is that it's obviously not up to the standards of live-action even necessarily exceptional CGI animation but that it can nonetheless be involving on a real level, which is a kind of success. We're at the point where we can begin to fine-tune what kind of artificiality mass audiences can accept, and that's sorta interesting (to me anyways.)

post #52 of 72
Everybody seems to have forgotten that this is a trailer. The effects are INCOMPLETE. They will most likely be refined before November.

And this is Spielberg's explanation for using mocap rather than live action:

http://www.slashfilm.com/steven-spielberg-talks-motion-capture-the-adventures-tintin-secret-unicorn/

I see his point. Live action Tintin would look a little weird. Like the ASTERIX movies.
post #53 of 72

I wasn't implying Xenophobia and I am sorry if my comments suggested that. 

 

I guess my frustration is clouding my judgement here, there is really nothing not to like about this series yet it seems to be overshadowed by something, if not the Europieaness then prehaps the CGI?  In whcih case my point still stands, a live action Tintin would be recived a lot better.

post #54 of 72

Live-action Tintin has been done, and did look weird.

 

Count me as the evidently rare American who as a child consumed all the Tintin (and Asterix) books he could find. I'm not sure where these pockets of resistance are, as my brother and his daughters are fans as well.

 

My favorite shot in the trailer? The unmistakeably absurd profile of Allan, Captain Haddock's evil first mate.

post #55 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post

Live-action Tintin has been done, and did look weird.



Mmm-hmm

 

Image du film

post #56 of 72

Maybe I'm not using the term correctly, but isn't the uncanny valley only supposed to apply to efforts at creating photorealistic humans? As in exact copies? Because the term has been thrown around in this thread and from the little that was shown this is not what they're trying to do with Tintin. They seem to be going more for high graphical fidelity rather than verissimilitude.

post #57 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

Maybe I'm not using the term correctly, but isn't the uncanny valley only supposed to apply to efforts at creating photorealistic humans? As in exact copies? Because the term has been thrown around in this thread and from the little that was shown this is not what they're trying to do with Tintin. They seem to be going more for high graphical fidelity rather than verissimilitude.



True. This is going much more for a heightened reality - like a mocapped UP almost - than it is photorealistic nightmare fuel. People seem to be throwing around the uncanny valley with hyperbolic abandon considering what we've seen so far.

post #58 of 72

They've said time and again that they want to make CG characters that look like the comic characters, not exact 1:1 copies of the actors playing the parts. Unless you think Jamie Bell really has a head the huge, or forget that Andy Serkis is playing the towering, bulky Captain Haddock, or that Simon Pegg and Nick Frost are playing identical French twins. This isn't Zemeckis taking Anthony Hopkins and trying to grant an exact CG copy of Anthony Hopkins on top of him. 

post #59 of 72

Tintin's visual style is somewhere on the border between realistic and stylised. The shot of him chasing the car makes me understand why they found the mo cap idea appealing - it really is like the comic brought to life. But the performances could go either way. The shot of the twins eyes through the paper is promising, but Tintin's close up at the end is uncomfortably Zemeckisian.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Custer View Post

Can you honestly tell me that plane crash looks one half as good as it might have in live action or in full animation?


I agree it's not the best, but did the plane crash is Temple of Doom really look better?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
I may be way off base, but as I said earlier, if this were an original creation - or even a pre-loved AMERICAN one (imagine if Spielberg and Jackson were doing a mocap Doc Savage film for example) I just don't believe we'd see the same - I think 'stubborness' is the word - we seem to be encountering here.


I'm reminded of how everyone worked themselves into a frenzy over Del Toro's Mountains Of Madness sight unseen, despite only a small percentage actually having any real experience with Lovecraft. The geek world is a fickle place.

post #60 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

Everybody seems to have forgotten that this is a trailer. The effects are INCOMPLETE. They will most likely be refined before November.

/// Live action Tintin would look a little weird. Like the ASTERIX movies.


RE: Incomplete FX;

They said exactly the same thing about Avatar and Tron 2. It's bullshit.

 

LOL, that first poster for the live action Asterix Movie was so fucking surreal there was an argument as to whether it was actually some clever photoshop job. Depardieu was too perfectly cast as Obelix. Total fever dream.

 

 

The Uncanny Valley:

You know it's not a cerebral/intellectual reaction right? It's not a dry "Oh, I can see that's not quite real. What a pile of suck!". It's a gut level thing. It's literally not fakeable. It's utter bullshit to try and wave off legitimate gut level responses as geek preciousness over the source material or objection to a stylistic choice - it's either there or it isn't. Maybe you've got a stronger stomach for it or something? If so, congratulations, you'll enjoy fucking a sexbot sooner than everyone else.

 

 

Re: Avatar;

A study has come up that proves people have more sympathy/empathy for people with the same color skin as them, rather than that of other races. It's hard-wired in some fundamental way. But weirdly, this also extends to non-racially associated colors like say, blue. Blue is like the perfect non-racially charged color for those aliens to be. James Cameron is an evil genius. I bet he looks at that TinTin stuff and sees EXACTLY how fucked it is. He probably has charts and graphs hidden away somewhere vectoring the exact BO/Financial outcome of getting it wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #61 of 72



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post

 

 

Not saying that Gollum's a 1:1 guarantee of nailing mo-cap, but I do think that technology can get to the point where maybe the uncanny valley is not totally crossable, but instead we can launch things over to the other side. With a catapult. I get your point about LOTR being filled with real actors though. In that sense, I'd look to animation or whatever the heck they did with Avatar (which looks like animation/hyper-realistic but actually done with mo-cap.) I mean, this is supposed to be a cartoon, right?

 

My only point with LA Noire is that it's obviously not up to the standards of live-action even necessarily exceptional CGI animation but that it can nonetheless be involving on a real level, which is a kind of success. We're at the point where we can begin to fine-tune what kind of artificiality mass audiences can accept, and that's sorta interesting (to me anyways.)



I agree - it is interesting. And its going to get more interesting as time goes by and people continue to refine this tech in order to achieve genuine emotional impact. Gollum IS a good example of Mocap done well. So is Avatar. Both share the same essential feature: they step away from trying to recreate reality as it is and offer up a much more stylized take. The difference is perfectly illustrated by the CGI version of Legolas that pops up in those films. I can and do accept Gollum as a character in the film. CG-Legolas looks irritatingly "fake."

 

Again, my reservations are based only on the trailer and I'm eager to change my opinion. I'd love nothing more than to have this film blow my socks off. Spielberg? Jackson? That cast? I couldn't be more excited about the elements involved here. I'm just hit on a "gut" level by the techniques employed here, and not in the best way. Here's to being pleasantly surprised.

 

 

 

post #62 of 72


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

Maybe I'm not using the term correctly, but isn't the uncanny valley only supposed to apply to efforts at creating photorealistic humans? As in exact copies? Because the term has been thrown around in this thread and from the little that was shown this is not what they're trying to do with Tintin. They seem to be going more for high graphical fidelity rather than verissimilitude.

Uncanny Valley is a degree thing, not all or nothing. And different people may react differently, depending on that degree of real/unreal. When there's a large percentage of real, there tends to be more scrutiny and unsettled reactions. It's not vying for super-realism, but this qualifies enough IMO.

 

uncanny_valley_graph.gif

 

I do have experience with Herge's comics, but I just found it charming. Solid storytelling. Nothing more. I didn't swoon. It's not very dynamic. It's dialogue heavy in some spots. I might have more affection for it if I grew up on it, but it seems more like the boy answer to Lil Orphan Annie or the Belgium Terry and the Pirates. Those are all quality classic strips, don't get me wrong, but I wasn't blown away. Could be I've been exposed to such a glut of similar stuff? The prospect of Spielberg (and then PJ?) adapting these Tin-Tin stories raises some curiosity (and I will check it out because I like the talent and pulpy adventure), but I'm not chomping at the bit at the moment. Especially since there have been different attempts already.

 

LittleOrphanAnnie1.jpg

 

EDIT: Jesse Custer addresses some of my concerns/feelings as well.

 

EDIT 2: A boy and his dog on adventures? I'm also reminded that the old Nick import toon, BELLE AND SEBASTIAN hasn't been released to dvd yet,

 

tumblr_l3irf4VgWI1qbwnk4o1_400.jpg
 

 

post #63 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nardo View Post
It's utter bullshit to try and wave off legitimate gut level responses as geek preciousness over the source material or objection to a stylistic choice


No one has been doing that, it's two separate discussions.

post #64 of 72

Re: the plane crash in the trailer. It feels authentic to Hergé's 'clean line' style--  there's a matter-of-fact quality to the action in the books, with very infrequent use of extreme 'camera' angles.

post #65 of 72

Anticipation is slowly rising for this.  I'm quietly hoping for it to be a success, as it may mean an eventual movie based on the Spirou and Fantasio comics, which I enjoyed as much, if not more, than the Tintin series. 

post #66 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

 


No one has been doing that, it's two separate discussions.

 

Dude, things don't need to be spelled out when the context of the conversation is this entire site and the usual round of argumentative positions people take.
 

Read both parts of Post #57. The xenophobic/cultural reaction isn't on the table. They're talking stylization. I'm saying Creepy is Creepy, whether it's a problem with near-realism or stylization (the Polar Express was stylized to fuck and was a horror). It's a legitimate biological response and can't be lumped with an intellectual response.

 

I was fine with most of Beowulf and Final Fantasy 1 (in the faces at least - they all had bad joints though). While I found FF2, where the characters etc were more stylized, was like watching Polar Express all over again.

 

I don't care that they're using THIS stylistic approach to TinTin. I care that they seem to have fucked it up despite all the well-known pitfalls of this approach. Creepy trumps all other aesthetic considerations IMO because cinema is a medium of sympathy/empathy. All I'm thinking is "Kill It!".

 

 

 

 

 

post #67 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nardo View Post

They're talking stylization. I'm saying Creepy is Creepy, whether it's a problem with near-realism or stylization (the Polar Express was stylized to fuck and was a horror). It's a legitimate biological response and can't be lumped with an intellectual response.

 

...

 

I don't care that they're using THIS stylistic approach to TinTin. I care that they seem to have fucked it up despite all the well-known pitfalls of this approach. Creepy trumps all other aesthetic considerations IMO because cinema is a medium of sympathy/empathy. All I'm thinking is "Kill It!".

 


 

Yep. Above all it's about what fires in your brain and gut when you see the thing, and Tintin's cold, half-dead expression in this trailer creep me the fuck out. It doesn't matter that he's not photoreal, it matters that he's real enough in the face and unreal enough in the eyes to set off that gut response.

 

I really want to get pumped for this because it's Tintin and it's PJ and it's Spielberg, but this trailer got me down right there at the end.

post #68 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post




Judging from the way the credits were written it was Wright and Cornish rewritting a script by Moffat. It doesn't seem like much of a mess to me.

 

 


It seems to me that Moffat, Wright and Cornish all have quite strong creative voices and that you might have a clash of vision. Moffat and Wright are kind of similar in that they're both great structuralist so I'm kind of interested in how their styles work together, Joe Cornish's projects have always been a bit more 'out there' (although I haven't seen ATTACK THE BLOCK yet).

 

post #69 of 72

On the fence about the CGI, but still excited as lifelong Tin Tin fan...hell, I hope John Williams makes a version of the animated Tin Tin theme, which was just fantastic.

 

Also, im not sure if Spielberg and Jackson have planned for sequels, but "7 Crystal Balls" and "Prisoners of the sun" would be fantastic as a single feature film.

 

Also, if anyone wants to know more about Tintin and Herge, "Tintin: The complete companion" is the perfect book, especially because its essentially a making off book for all the albums; Herge had a HUGE collection of reference material and research library, so the book its a fantastic read if you like making off style books.

post #70 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by pervis42 View Post

Anticipation is slowly rising for this.  I'm quietly hoping for it to be a success, as it may mean an eventual movie based on the Spirou and Fantasio comics, which I enjoyed as much, if not more, than the Tintin series. 



I would pay good money for a movie adaptation of "Who will stop Cyanide?" myself, or any of the Zorglub/Zantafio adventures.

post #71 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post

On the fence about the CGI, but still excited as lifelong Tin Tin fan...hell, I hope John Williams makes a version of the animated Tin Tin theme, which was just fantastic.


It's great but I sort of doubt he'd would cover someone else's work that's already more Williams than Williams. I'll be impressed if he pulls out something better though.

post #72 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post


It's great but I sort of doubt he'd would cover someone else's work that's already more Williams than Williams. I'll be impressed if he pulls out something better though.


Check the Symphonic version of the Tv series theme...it demands to be heard in the theater:

 

 

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