The Hunchback of Notre Dame (1996)

You've got a huge point in the complexity and mold-braking-ness of this film.  I don't think it did what it could have because for one thing it wasn't well marketed.  It was trailered as just another fun Disney romp, showcasing the gargoyles and goat's  jokiness and downplaying the incredibly dark themes.  Also, I think there wasn't really the market for this movie at the time.  Selling it to the littles, as another Aladdin/Little Mermaid (and I don't remember the chronology so it's a loose comparison) was never going to work.  It's simply too dark and complicated for the littlest watchers to love and beg for the merchandise.  

I saw it in the theatre as a  teen because there was nothing else to do.  My friends and I loved it.  But we had dreaded going to see it. I   Last year I Netflixed it for my spawn.  My oldest burst into hysterics in the beginning when Quasi's parents are killed and Frollo tries to kill him.  "NO! Don't kill the baby!" He screamed, and he's 6 so, pretty much the target market.

So I think it is largely overlooked because it wasn't seen by the people who would have loved it. 

I love the parts of the movie I love.  I love it HARD.  I ignore everything else.

Honestly, I love ALMOST everything about the movie. The characterizations of Quasimodo, Frollo, Esmeralda and even Phoebus are great, the voice acting and singing is phenomenal, the animation is utterly gorgeous, and nearly every song is a winner.

And then we have the gargoyles. They're acted and animated well enough, I suppose (Jason Alexander is one of those actors born to do voice-over), but their antics are such a massive tonal shift that it becomes jarring. Their musical number also kind of blows, especially when compared to the rest of the songs.

In short, I still love it, but it does have some glaring issues. mcnooj, I'm curious as to whether you agree with me on Quasimodo; I still think the Disney version is a great character on his own, what with Tom Hulce's soulful performance, the great character animation, and the intriguing relationship he has with our villain Frollo, who's still one of my favorite villains of all time.

I agree, Chris.   

I mention this in any thread that brings up this film, and I'll do it again.  I still belt out songs from this in my car.  

Bells of Notre Dame

Out There

Heaven's Light/Hellfire

The latter two, I've done in front of people.  Hahahah

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

I agree, Chris.   

 

I mention this in any thread that brings up this film, and I'll do it again.  I still belt out songs from this in my car.  

Bells of Notre Dame

Out There

Heaven's Light/Hellfire

 

The latter two, I've done in front of people.  Hahahah

Yeah, those are definitely the "powerhouse" songs, though I think "Topsy Turvy" is a great "fun" song (and the cartoony gags actually work in this song, as it's meant to be a fun, goofy celebration), "God Help The Outcasts" is beauuuutiful, and "Court of Miracles" is a fun, short little number.

With Bells, do you do the speaking parts as well? It's already a tough song to sing, and then you add those in...

Oh, I try... I try...  

Those other songs are great too.  It's just that they're not ones I feel I could sing or would enjoy singing.  

When I sang Hellfire in front of some people, I turned around and zipped up my pants when the guard intrudes on Frollo's uh... session.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

Oh, I try... I try...  

 

Those other songs are great too.  It's just that they're not ones I feel I could sing or would enjoy singing.  

 

When I sang Hellfire in front of some people, I turned around and zipped up my pants when the guard intrudes on Frollo's uh... session.

Heh. Anyway, another reason I like this movie so much is that it deals with the "Racism/prejudice is bad!" theme way better than the Disney flick before it, Pocahontas. For example, Frollo is an irredeemable villain, yes, but he's so convinced he's doing God's work in his religious hypocrisy that he ends up as far more interesting than Ratcliffe, who's just a one-dimensional greedy SOB. The heroes are also much more interesting than the ultra-bland Pocahontas and John Smith, who exist only as mouthpieces for the film's message.

I've never liked Pocahontas, so you'll find no argument from me.

In fact, it was my disappointment with that film, after the high of Mermaid, Beast, Aladdin, and Lion King that I ended up skipping on Hunchback in theaters.  

So... screw Pocahontas.

Except Colors of the Wind.  That's just a lovely sequence.

Eh, Colors of the Wind is lovely from an animation standpoint, but the song itself is pretty pretentious and occasionally nonsensical (what the hell is a "blue corn moon" anyway?). Not to mention the total WTF moment when Pocahontas picks up a bear cub RIGHT IN FRONT OF ITS MOTHER. Because that's a great lesson to teach kids!

Don't let practical reality get in the way of earthy messages!

Yeah, I was praising the sequence for how beautifully it was put together.  

As for 'blue corn moon', I just found this Yahoo Answers thing through a Google search.  You may already know this, but here it is... supposedly from the mouth of Stephen Schwartz himself:

...Huh. I suppose that's a reasonably good explanation. Still sounds kind of dumb.

Watching Hunchback with another fan of the film, we commented on how its lush and detailed art direction make Mulan (as much as I enjoy that film) look SO empty and simplistic.  I realize that it was a style that Mulan was going for, but Hunchback actually makes it look like Disney really skimped on the budget for their 1998 feature.  Like... almost DTV budget.   Hahahah

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

Watching Hunchback with another fan of the film, we commented on how its lush and detailed art direction make Mulan (as much as I enjoy that film) look SO empty and simplistic.  I realize that it was a style that Mulan was going for, but Hunchback actually makes it look like Disney really skimped on the budget for their 1998 feature.  Like... almost DTV budget.   Hahahah

Oh, here's where we have to disagree. Mulan still has feature-quality *character* animation, all fluid and dynamic and none of that cheap stilted crap you get in DTVs. Seriously, go watch Mulan II and see the difference. I personally think there are some pretty great sequences: Mulan making her decision and running away (the score in that scene is also amazing), the charge of the Huns, "I'll Make A Man Out Of You", and the finale in the Imperial City.

Pocahontas is the Disney film that looks too simplistic to me, and the style they tried to do doesn't fit with the Disney animators' skills.

No dig on the animation.  I'm just talking about how the production feels only in comparison to Hunchback.  Does Mulan have anything to match how breathtaking the stained glass windows of "God Help the Outcasts"?  

I really like Mulan, by the way.  I was just making a point about how lush the production design of Hunchback is.  Mulan, in comparison, feels much more graphical in its relative simplicity.

Interesting thing about the score during the Mulan's Decision sequence.  I love that cue despite the fact that it sticks out quite a bit from the rest of Goldsmith's score.  Is there any other cue in the film that sounds so contemporary?  I know that there are complete versions of the score out there that feature a more traditionally scored version of that sequence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

No dig on the animation.  I'm just talking about how the production feels only in comparison to Hunchback.  Does Mulan have anything to match how breathtaking the stained glass windows of "God Help the Outcasts"?  

 

I really like Mulan, by the way.  I was just making a point about how lush the production design of Hunchback is.  Mulan, in comparison, feels much more graphical in its relative simplicity.

 

Interesting thing about the score during the Mulan's Decision sequence.  I love that cue despite the fact that it sticks out quite a bit from the rest of Goldsmith's score.  Is there any other cue in the film that sounds so contemporary?  I know that there are complete versions of the score out there that feature a more traditionally scored version of that sequence.

Ah, I see what you mean. And the "Mulan's Decision" cue, for me, strikes a nice balance between modern and traditional Goldsmith (you'll notice the "da da da da da da DA" theme that pops up in other action sequences shows up here). There's a more traditional version? The cue on the soundtrack sounds pretty close to the film.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Spider 

 There's a more traditional version? The cue on the soundtrack sounds pretty close to the film.

 

The alternate version is found on promo/bootleg versions of the score.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

The alternate version is found on promo/bootleg versions of the score.

 

Hmmm... Know where I can find 'em?
 

I used to look on Ebay for stuff like that, but not anymore.  Heheh.  But to tide you over a little...

Way more traditional, yeah?  I have no idea which I would prefer, all things being equal.  But as it is, I really dig the version they ended up using.  It's what I first heard and it struck me. 

Hurm... That's OK, I guess, but the cue they ended up using is so intense and driving. It *makes* the scene, and this feels kind of flat in comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

I love the parts of the movie I love.  I love it HARD.  I ignore everything else.

My thoughts on "Hunchback" exactly.  It's one of my favorite underrated Disney films but even so the mood whiplash brought on by those cutesy gargoyles is hard to get past.

Then I read a Crazy Internet Film Geek Interpretation (tm) of the film that argued that the gargoyles are more tolerable when you realize they are a hallucination Quasimodo is having.  Looked through that lens, their Obligatory Cheery Disney Sidekick Number is the darkest damn thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicTheDragon 

My thoughts on "Hunchback" exactly.  It's one of my favorite underrated Disney films but even so the mood whiplash brought on by those cutesy gargoyles is hard to get past.

 

Then I read a Crazy Internet Film Geek Interpretation (tm) of the film that argued that the gargoyles are more tolerable when you realize they are a hallucination Quasimodo is having.  Looked through that lens, their Obligatory Cheery Disney Sidekick Number is the darkest damn thing.

Y'know, I've heard that argument, and it's a damn solid one. And as noted before, the gargoyles are still animated quite well, and the voice acting is strong for all three.