DC Comics Reboot - Page 2

Re: Swamp Thing

 

The creepy antagonist scene is what sort of makes me curious about following this one. That was seriously creepy and gross. Hopefully there's more of that to come!

Picked up a few of the new #1's yesterday.  Animal Man was by far my favorite.  The art really captured the underlying creepiness that permeated much of the story, and the dream sequence and cliffhanger were top-notch.  Can't wait to see where they take this one.

 

I very much enjoyed Action Comics and Detective Comics.  I've never been a Superman fan, but this social crusader take is interesting, and Detective Comics was a pretty creepy Batman story.

 

Not knowing anything about Swamp Thing before reading his book, I appreciated the fact that it kind of walked me through his mythos, and I was intrigued enough to be curious to come back for more.

 

Stormwatch and Batgirl didn't really leave much of an impression, so I may not stick with these.  There aren't too many books next week that look that interesting to me, so I might try Static Shock and Justice League International when I make my next visit to the local shop.

 

All in all, as a relative newbie to the DC universe and comics in general, I've had a really fun time reading these things over the last week. 

Has everyone been reading digitally or going to the comic shop? I've been reading digitally, mainly because there are no nearby comic shops.

I've been going to a shop.  I don't have an ipad or anything like that, so floppies are more practical for me at this point.

Picked up digital copies of Detective and Action.  As someone who hasn't picked up a monthly floppy of Batman and Superman in about 10 years, I am excited to be able to start fresh. 

 

Detective had a nice cliffhanger and Action had plenty of reasons to check out issue #2. 

Damn... I want to go get me a ASUS Transformer just so I can start collecting comics again.  What types of readers or pads are you folks using?

I just go to read.dccomics.com and read them on my PC. I don't have a tablet.

Damn so many reboots...

Didn't read Flashpoint, but I've seen the scuttlebutt around it. I have to wonder if her presence is going to basically be a means to pull a Star Trek '09 where we can sort of have our cake and eat it too. We're in a "new" DCU, but the one that's been collected in trades over the decades is still happening out there somewhere in time and space.

I'm guessing she's their "panic button" character who can return the universe to its former state if this whole enterprise goes kablooey.

Honestly? While there are clearly some solid books coming out of this, I'm still less than convinced that this isn't a desperation move on the part of the current editorial staff at DC, and it's pretty clear that this isn't really intended as a "fresh start" despite all the new #1s.

 

If you're getting (back) into comics, I honestly don't think this is the place to start. I'd recommend, as I do with most people, that you try some of the books from non-Big Two publishers, or some of the lesser, quirkier books from DC and Marvel. The "big names" are rarely that compelling these days, to my mind--the only exception is the stuff written by Grant Morrison, and even he isn't hugely accessible.

 

If you want a list of recommendations for comics, I can send you some, or there's a couple dozen threads in this forum that can steer you in the right direction.

 

If you insist on jumping back in with the "New 52", writers to watch for include Grant Morrison, Paul Cornell, Scott Snyder, and Jeff Lemire.

 

Also, did Starving Dog just recommend a book based on the fact that Rob Liefeld is drawing it? Really? Seriously?

 

Well, I'm sure you understand that DC maintaining the status quo wasn't a sustainable proposition. Comics as a whole need new readers. This may be the best thing DC could do. So far we (Green Brain Comics in Dearborn, MI) have sold a shit ton of books. There is excitement, though not all the new stuff is good, it has brought new customers in the store. Long term success isn't in any way assured, but so far so good. Except for Men of War, we haven't sold much of that at all.

But...he was popular in the early nineties. What else would you need in a comic book -- Stan Lee?

 

Fuck him, he's old.

This just kind of hit me today: Why the fuck not roll out a new Kamandi series? I think a light horror spin would work really well for it, actually.

But will that last, though? This is the issue, for me. This seems like the latest iteration of the game-changing crossover event that comics roll out every year.

 

I think the big two, rather insanely, are still addicted to the speculator's market of the early 90s, despite how thoroughly that market collapsed. Having a new line of #1s is exactly the kind of shit they used to pull all the time. It's a gimmick. It'll drive up sales among the faithful for a bit, but if the quality is as consistently uneven as the DCnU titles have shown themselves to be this first week, we'll quickly see it drop off. This isn't going to win new readers, which is what DC really needs in the long term.

 

I think this guy nails it: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/4132-Continanity-Rebooted

 

Yeah, but again, what's the alternative?

It's not about alternatives in the sense that DC or Marvel needs to completely change their strategy. They should, by all means, continue to do what they're doing, making expensive pamphlets for brick and mortar comics shops and aiming them at the older, nerdier fans. But they also--not instead of, but also--need to start reaching out to new markets, and that's not simply a matter of putting their stuff in bookstores and marketing outside of the existing comics audience (though they do desperately need to do that), it's about creating a new kind of content. Something that's more kid-friendly. DC and Marvel have both attempted this in the past, making some decent kid's books, but then they end up selling it as overpriced pamphlets in comic book stores next to Boob Girl and Violence Dude. Then when DC makes a decent marketing move with their "Earth One" book (there's only been the one so far, right?) the actual product is basically a condescendingly simplified version of their usual crap, which is the exact problem that last week's "Justice League #1" had. These books are being written by hardcore nerds who don't really know how to reach a mainstream audience; they think that making a decompressed, unengaging rehash of the origin story is the way to bring people on board, and they're wrong.
 

What DC needs to do is either market their very best existing stories in a self-contained format--I'd advise advertising the hell out of All Star Superman for a start, Jeff Smith's Shazam: the Monster Society of Evil and the two classic Frank Miller Bat-books are other good suggestions--and then KEEP MAKING MORE LIKE THOSE. Standalone OGNs that actually get some marketing weight behind them. There's a reason Watchmen has been a perennial seller--people know they can pick it up, read it, and be finished. It's available in every bookstore. This is the kind of model DC should be embracing if it wants to make real money. Instead, they remain inordinately focused on the periodical format, which is overpriced and inaccessible to new readers.

 

The digital download thing COULD be very big, but of course DC's in the position of not being able to undersell comic stores. I'm personally of the opinion they should drastically drop the price on pamphlets, so they can do the same for the digital downloads, or even just say "screw it" and price the digital stuff more cheaply--there still seem to be a lot of people suffering from the delusion that print comics are going to skyrocket in value over time, and as long as those guys exist the comics stores will have customers.

 

But my number one bullet point here is: DC, stop acting like it's still 1991. The speculator's market is never coming back. Stop prioritizing pamphlets as collectibles, and adopt some new strategies.

Is Batman starting over? Or is Robin still Batman and Damien is Robin.

Batman's all started over. It's Bruce Wayne, and we haven't seen Robin yet. Barbara Gordon is Batgirl.

So why did they start Batman Inc just to start all over and erase it?

I think that title's supposed to make a comeback at some point, actually. But it's been discussed in this thread about how DC basically seized on an opportunity presented in Flashpoint to do this reboot, and how that has pretty much everything to do with their move to day and date digital publishing and trying to attract new readers to that. So, in answer to your question: they thought they could make more money this way. I guess we'll see.

But how is that continuituy kept if Batman is starting over. it makes no sense.

Wow.  It really, really doesn't.  I remember reading at a few different places (and maybe even hearing it in interviews) that the whole schtick is that Superman was the first superhero on the scene, and that happened five years ago, and he inspired all of the rest of the heroes.

 

So how does Batman have a teenage son? (I'm not really sure how old Damien is supposed to be, but I'm guessing he's at least ten years old or older.)  When did he knock up Talia? 

 

I thought the whole Batgirl thing was stupid, with the Killing Joke still having happened and yet she was back to being Batgirl, and that was just a knee-jerk reaction, without really devoting any serious thought to how much it didn't work.  But if Batman's chronology really is as screwy as this, then DC can just kiss it.  I had quit reading the Batman books since Damien was made Robin.  I had thought that, if the Bat-books were starting over, I might give them another shot.  But, no.  You can't have your cake and eat it too, DC.  Especially if you're going to be so blatantly stupid about it.

I thought the new direction on Batman had promise. It's a shame that they are making this convoluted like One More Day.

Eh, if it's good going forward, I could give a shit. I'm not much of a shit giver when it comes to Batman, though.

Batman just happens to keep a lot of young males around the mansion. What's so weird about that?

 

 

I guess I'd forgotten that.  I'm pretty sure I read Batman #666 at some point.  I'm going to blame my extreme hatred for the character for wiping my memory of all minor details regarding his history.

 

...  's still dumb. 
 

 

It would seem mostly that the history of Batman has been condensed into 6 years, which isn't that hard to buy. Barbara Gordon has been deaged so shes probably just post college age, and I would assume Dick Grayson has been too. Grayson has probably been active for 5 years, maybe for Robin as a few of them, while Jason Todd could have been for 1 and Drake for 2. I read something that said being Robin has become more of an internship kind of thing in the new DCU, so they graduate (or die and are resurrected) on and are replaced. If you take into account that many of the big events in the DCU probably only take place over a couple days to a week, most of them could have taken place in 6 years. 6 really hectic years.

Trying to editorially mandate cross-book continuity is convoluted enough. Trying to fit the DCU's timeline into something consistent is just stupid. It's unnecessarily limiting to good stories, for the sole purpose of OCD fact-tracking, which has always been the bane of superhero comics. I'm perfectly willing to accept that Batman has a bunch of former partners and a teenage son in one story, then accept that he's only been fighting crime for three years in the next, if the story's good. Just like how Damien was a plot point that went missing for three decades until Morrison decided to develop him.

 

The fact that the DCnU has an official timeline is not a good sign.

Didio said Robin is an INTERNSHIP PROGRAM or something dumb like that.

 

Whatever, I don't really care.  I'm glad Damien is still Robin! If Robin isn't  a wildcard kid who needs guidance and training, what's the point?

That's why Tim Drake as Robin never really worked for me. He was pretty much a nice kid with a good head on his shoulders from day one.

 

 

More on the fact that Sterling Gates is writing it with a well known artist in tow.

I'd assume this is the conversation that would be going on in the '50s when they brought the Green Lantern back as a space police man instead of the Green Lantern with the magic lantern everyone knew about from the 40s. 

This.  I read a recent Spider-Man issue where he says he has been Spider-Man for 10 years now.

A well-known artist who is well-known for being spectacularly awful. The man mucked up Alan Moore scripts for God's sake.

Well, is Spider-Man suppposed to have been around for 50 or so years?

Exactly... Condensing years of this DC Universe's history into five years makes plenty of sense.

That *whole* exchange above tells me as a layman to DC Comics that this is not really a reboot.

 

Background. I'm a geek. I read Marvel/DC avidly as a kid. Generally now, I'm into the Graphic Novel prints (Hush, No Mans Land, etc), and don't give a stuff for continuity. My main comic book reading is generally focused on stand alone series (currently reading 'The Boys' for example). So I'm not exactly coming at this as a virgin comic reader, but I don't tend to swim in the long standing continuity comics. As such, this New 52 thing had some appeal to me, though I suspect I'm not the target demographic and that's cool.

 

I picked up some of these issue #1s. (JLA, Action, Detective, Swamp Thing) Frankly, the legal digital thing is a big draw for me, nice not to have to muck around getting my CBRs on the iPad. I was moderately engaged, but there was nothing standout in the stories/artwork that will make me want to shell out significant amounts of cash for these, but there were a few nice cliffhangers that will keep me interested for a couple more issues at least. So overall, again, meh.

 

However, if this was truly a reboot, they needed to severly prune their character list.

 

Why is there more than one Robin? Nightwing? Red Robin? What? Batwoman/Batgirl? What? Birds of Prey? What?

 

Sure, that's hyperbole, I know a bit about all those characters/titles... but I can barely follow the continuity on them as it is! But they ALL evolved out of ongoing stories with the original Batman. They are all spin-offs.

 

Which means, if Batman is *truly* rebooting, DC should have the bottle to leave these titles on the backburner for a year or two and introduce them organically from the parent comic. Like they did first time around. Hell, would it have killed them to try a new character or two (I'm assuming none of these 52 are new original titles?)

 

As a noob, Swamp Thing #1 confused the bejeezus out of me (I followed Moore's run, that's about it). That almost felt like I need to understand previous comics to follow what was going on... they didn't leave me with the confidence that all the mysterious things will be explained later on. As an aside, was Superman flying/hovering in ST#1? So is this comic seperate/after what is going on in AC#1 (which seems like he can only do the 'leap tall buildings in a single bound' thing at the moment)?

 

I don't know. Just feels a bit messy.

 

 

Action Comics Superman is younger than elsewhere. His powers seemingly haven't fully developed yet.

I went out last night and picked up another stack of books.  I got Frankenstein, Green Lantern, Red Lanterns, Superboy, Deathstroke, and Demon Knights.

 

I really loved Frankenstein.  Lemire introduced the concept and the major players clearly and gave all the characters unique voices and personalities in only a few frames.  The art was inventive and the monster designs were great and the action was exciting.  I really liked that Frank was more Shelley and less of a grunting brute.

 

I like the concept behind Demon Knights, but I was a bit unclear on some of the characters and what was going on.  The premise will bring me back for another few issues.

 

I liked Green Lantern, and I like the intriguing possibilities of the last page. 

 

Red Lanterns really did nothing for me.  The art was pretty great, but I didn't feel all that engaged by it. 

 

Haven't gotten to read Superboy or Deathstroke, so I'm looking forward to reading those tonight.

I checked out Superboy (the nineties iteration was one of my favorites when I was a kid), Green Lantern, and Red Lanterns. I'm interested in seeing where Superboy goes from here, as I think that he'll lighten up eventually, and it might be fun and satisfying to see how they pull that off. I plan on taking a look at Frankenstein, Batman and Robin, and maybe Resurrection Man depending on word of mouth (always thought it was a neat concept) on payday.

Checked out Suicide Squad #1. Expectations were low, should have been lower. Atrocious attempt to make it "edgy" and the supermodel take on Amanda Waller shows either DC or Glass (I'm guessing both) don't have a clue as to what made the character work.

I think Demon Knights is probably my favorite title outside of Animal Man, which is crazy considering Action Comics was great(and I'm a Morrison whore) and the fact that I've been waiting for Frankenstein: Agent of SHADE for, jesus, 5 to 6 years now. 

 

The hilarious bit with Sir Ystin("My cods say that's no man." "The Celts have odd ways. Nod and smile.") was great and just the fact that we are getting a jolly Vandal Savage is just too much awesome. Not to mention the potentially glorious:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

It is kind of amazing how the whole 'Dark' part of the line, which would seem to be the easiest to muck up, is full of the best stuff. I mean to think we are at a time when a title called Justice League Dark of all things has a chance(almost a certainty really) to be better than the main Justice League title.

 

 

Resurrection Man is pretty good! Definitely reminiscent of Animal Man in that it was a bit of a surprise with some good art. It's written in a fun noirish tone, and the hook is pretty cool. Worth checking out.

I like the concepts being introduced in Superboy (genetics, virtual realities, etc), so I'm very curious to see where it goes in the coming issues.  I'm no DC expert, but the cliffhanger made it look like Superboy is in for a pretty major throw-down in the coming months!  

 

Hadn't been clued in on Resurrection Man, but I've heard some good things.  I'm going back to the store with my brother this weekend, so I might give that one a shot.  

Last week OMAC was the best 52 I read. Didio and Giffen seem to understand Zany Kirby comics.

 

This week most of the titles I checked out seemed to have potential.

 

DEATHSTROKE: Joe Bennet's a very underrated artist and lol that ending

DEMON KNIGHTS: Good setup issue. I like the idea of the Demon teaming up with a bunch of  medieval characters

RESURRECTION MAN: I've always liked the concept

FRANKENSTEIN AGENT OF SHADE: There's a Mummy-Medic in this comic