SUPER 8 Post-Release Discussion - Page 3

People are really overthinking the monster and it's motivations.  The kids find out that Woodward was a young man when he was working for the government, so we know that the alien has been captive for years and years.  We know from the tape that Woodward was sympathetic towards the alien prior to being touched by the alien and sharing thoughts.  We also know from the tape that "we" (humanity) have trained this alien to hate us through our actions.

When the alien touched Woodward it would have been exposed to his thoughts.  Sympathy, but with absolutely no intent of doing anything to change the alien's situation.  Heck, this supposedly kind figure was a main component to the torture as we see Woodward feeding it in the cell.  From the alien's perspective, what does it matter if it touches a kind person before eating them?  Woodward was supposedly kind and was torturing it.

With Woodward saying we'd trained the alien to hate us, it's obvious that he felt this in the alien's thoughts.  Why are we trying to rationalize that after years in captivity, being poked and prodded from a group that had the ability to help the alien get home but just didn't bother, why is it hard to believe that the alien had long since ceased caring and was just going through anybody it needed to in order to escape?  That the alien found some compassion at all by the end is amazing but I just don't see the major issues with this that everybody seems to be finding.

Why not have the main child, Joe, be more of an outcast.  Alone in the world after lossing his mom, unable to attach to his father.  Make him, and the Alien creature more "compariable" in being alone in the world?  Hell, have the Locket be his only source of comfort, you do that, and the ending is much more impactful.   He seems to have moved on from his mom for the most part, and locket seemed to be more a rememberence item, then a token used to feel close to her again.  When he let it go, I was just thinking "That was dumb, your dad went to a lot of trouble to retrieve that for you". 

I'd also change the Aliens actions.  Have it only kill the soliders that are going after it, atleast us as the audience would be understanding to that.  Killing innocent townsfolk, not so much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A-Pathetic 

 

With Woodward saying we'd trained the alien to hate us, it's obvious that he felt this in the alien's thoughts.  Why are we trying to rationalize that after years in captivity, being poked and prodded from a group that had the ability to help the alien get home but just didn't bother, why is it hard to believe that the alien had long since ceased caring and was just going through anybody it needed to in order to escape?  That the alien found some compassion at all by the end is amazing but I just don't see the major issues with this that everybody seems to be finding.

For an Alien capable of traveling in outspace, it sure seemed primal as hell.  Okay, I get that it was tortured by the military, but for something so intelligent, it sure had the capability to turn into a blood thirsty monster who couldn't understand the difference between soliders and children.   Also, was it killing people for food, or as payback?  It probably didn't develop a taste for human blood when it was held captive, so I'm confused as to why it was just shown, eating people?  Couldn't it have just as easily snuck into a Piggly Wiggly and stole whole sides of beef?  Basically, what I'm trying to say is, to me it seemed like the monster was just killng and eating people because it could.  It didn't have too, it was smart enough to know the difference between children and townsfolk from the military, but it choose to ignore that. 

I still think JJ didn't know if he wanted this monster to be something like the Xenomorph, or something like ET. 

Look at something like District 9, that was done perfectly.  JJ should have taken notes on how to walk the line between the two from that film.    Instead it was 80% monster, and 20% ET in Super 8.  I was hoping the military would have blown the ship out of the sky in the end. 

It hated humans.  It was hungry.  Two birds, one stone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A-Pathetic 

It hated humans.  It was hungry.  Two birds, one stone.

Which is understandable, if we weren't supposed to feel for it at the end.  You can't have a monster eating people, then expect us to feel any bit of sympathy for it in the end when it finally got it's ship put back together. 

Super 8 just feels like a film, made from parts of better films. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by A-Pathetic 

People are really overthinking the monster and it's motivations.  The kids find out that Woodward was a young man when he was working for the government, so we know that the alien has been captive for years and years.  We know from the tape that Woodward was sympathetic towards the alien prior to being touched by the alien and sharing thoughts.  We also know from the tape that "we" (humanity) have trained this alien to hate us through our actions.

 

When the alien touched Woodward it would have been exposed to his thoughts.  Sympathy, but with absolutely no intent of doing anything to change the alien's situation.  Heck, this supposedly kind figure was a main component to the torture as we see Woodward feeding it in the cell.  From the alien's perspective, what does it matter if it touches a kind person before eating them?  Woodward was supposedly kind and was torturing it.

 

With Woodward saying we'd trained the alien to hate us, it's obvious that he felt this in the alien's thoughts.  Why are we trying to rationalize that after years in captivity, being poked and prodded from a group that had the ability to help the alien get home but just didn't bother, why is it hard to believe that the alien had long since ceased caring and was just going through anybody it needed to in order to escape?  That the alien found some compassion at all by the end is amazing but I just don't see the major issues with this that everybody seems to be finding.

The reason it's an issue is because of the telepathy angle.  It means that when it touches any of the people it slaughters/kidnaps, it has a complete understanding of their innocence and lack of knowledge in what was done to it.  You're asking why this creature should make any kind of distinction between the military that harmed it and the civilian population around that military?  Because we are capable of drawing that distinction ourselves and expect other people to respect it, even though they aren't several orders of magnitude more technologically evolved than the rest of us, and also capable of mind-melding with every potential collateral casualty and instantaneously and infallibly assessing their relative culpability.

The ESP thing is totally stupid, because it not only makes the alien more of a monster while trying to make it less so, but is utterly lazy and unnecessary as an expository device.  The kids find Woodward's exposition reel anyway; it's not like Joel needed to read the thing's mind to understand its feelings.  And it is in captivity for years, and is presumably super-intelligent; it would have been, if anything, less of a stretch that it gradually came to understand human speech and won over Woodward that way.   If Joel has to actively communicate his own traumatic experience to the creature, that's much more dramatic than having it automatically downloaded.  It would be an actual accomplishment to teach empathy to a damaged, angry individual.   Teaching empathy to an Empathy Machine?  Not so much.

I think that the reason for the telepathy angle is because the creature couldn't build the ship on it's own.  This was explained in no uncertain terms by Woodward on the tape.  The creature had the ability but not enough knowledge, and the humans could have assisted it but chose not to.

I think that it couldn't complete it's ship until it had joined with Joe and received his experience with making models (which is also why Joe explains that the creature is making a model when somebody asks what it's doing at the water tower).  I think this just wasn't spelled out because it's fairly lame, but it's the only reason to make Joe's model building such an important part of the narrative.

I was under the impression that the device the creature was building was what attracted the white cubes together to make it's ship.  The boy just happened to stumble into it's lair at the last second before it implimented the device to rebuild it's ship (and before it brought Alice and Co aboard for midlfight snacks!)

I also thought the whole "evil military" element was pretty lazy.  What the hell was the military supposed to do exactly?  You got this intelligent creature, that is giant, pissed off, and has a hunger for flesh, i think hunting it, or capturing it was pretty understandable.  In all fariness, Kyle Chandlers character was captured because the general thought he knew about the creature.  You let the town know a giant man eating creature is loose, what would their reaction be?  Instead, you have the military start a fire, that gets the people out of harms way. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoolong 

He doesn't bond with the kid until the end of the movie.  The ship is finished like three minutes later.  I don't see how it could have been all that helpful at that point.

But we're told that the creature is unable to put the ship together on his own.  Woodward knows this and bonded with the creature.  We see the scene where the cubes are building the ship at the military base and just fall apart while they all take notes.

Obviously the creature is building some sort of electromagnet to bring the cubes there, but it seemed like in the scene in the caves it was frustrated (even before it knew the kids were there).  It doesn't add anything to the machine, yet is able to build the ship after bonding with Joe.

There's just too much there to be circumstantial.

1. 3 of the kids have obvious hobbies.  One of the kids makes movies, which is a major plot point.  One of the kids blows things up, which comes into play critically at the end of the movie.  The main character makes models but that doesn't mean anything?  That doesn't add up, his hobby is important to the plot of the movie.

2. Woodward plainly states that the creature is unable to rebuild it's ship on it's own.  He has bonded with the creature and knows it needs human assistance.  I mean, they speak this part directly at us as explanation.

3. You all are downplaying the reason for the psychic connection, when this answer makes that ability necessary.  He absorbs Joe's knowledge of models and is then able to figure out how to complete the ship.

It seems odd that you guys are writing all this stuff off, it explains away some of your complaints and makes perfect sense in the context of the movie.  It mean, it's stupid and all but it still makes sense in the context of the movie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoolong 

Honestly, I don't get how putting together models would be that helpful to putting together an actual spaceship.  The guy that worked at the gas station would have been more help if he was also a mechanic.

 

Still, I get what you're saying, but the sequence of events is that if that knowledge was useful, it was implemented in an extremely short amount of time as to make it difficult to accept that it was used at all.

The spaceship was essentially the biggest Lego set ever.  A mechanic would be useless.  I agree that it's rushed, and I fully admit that it's stupid (the reason I think they don't make it perfectly clear that's what's happening).  I think it's correct though.

Yeah I don't think anyone here has a problem with the alien being evil.  We all love to root for movie monsters for just doing their thing.  It's when the movie tries to turn that around and say NO! WE are the monster here!  While the alien scarfs down townsfolk that he's psychically bonded with.  That's just plain bad writing. 

Maybe this is nitpicky, but how the hell did the Professor survive that crash/EXPLOSION/TRAIN CARS SLAMMING INTO EVERYTHING!

There was no need to have him survive.  I would of had the kids discover his secrets by just breaking into his "dungeon" to take back what he took from them. 

I actually enjoyed the 6.5 minute explosive train derailment.  It got goofy before it was even 1/3 of the way over, but it looked and sounded cool, so whatever.

maybe the sequel will be titled "Digital 8", where Joe can't appreciate his son, Joe Jr, because he uses a computer to edit, and make Special FX for his film.

"It's just not normal, you running around and making effects on your computer.... when I was your age, I was using actual make-up!"

"Dad!!!!!  You just don't UNDERSTAND ME!"

They should make a movie where a human gets abducted, taken to an alien planet, escapes and starts fuckin' shit up.

Just because.

Planet 51

The good lord willing, that'll be John Carter of Mars.

Total Recall to some degree

Saw this yesterday and liked it a lot.

The characters of Joe and Alice, and the actors portraying them, did a great job and had nice chemistry together. Any complaints about Elle Fanning looking older than the boys is a little silly, as everyone knows girls develop before guys (they were all 13, on the verge of a growth spurt. My girlfriend pointed out how all the boys' voices kept cracking whenver they screamed). Charles the director kid was somewhat obnoxious, but I felt like that was accurate. He had a bunch of siblings, he was obviously trying to claw his way towards some degree of individuality and recognition. The other kids (including heart palpitation kid) didn't leave much of an impression. Fireworks kid was fun, and said "pussy" a lot, but his one-note act got old quick.

I went with my parents, and they got a kick out of the period piece authenticity (they graduated from High School in 1977, so this was a nice flashback for them). My mom commented on all the trashcans in the driveways, because there wasn't recycling back then. I'd like to think the entire town of Lillian, Ohio migrates to a suburb of Detroit, Michigan after the events of this film and are in the background of Freaks & Geeks.

The musical score, although not immediately hummable, was very appropriate and subdued at the rights moments. The sound FX did go up to 11 at times (especially when the Sheriff's car was being destroyed), but the volume added weight to the results of the monster's actions.

I say this because the monster wasn't all that impressive. Not only was its design overly simplistic (all sinewy arms), but it looked CGI through and through. I accepted its eating of humans, because I appreciated an alien actually being alien. Not only is it suffering PTSD after twenty years of imprisonment and torture, but it's not human and probably considers itself above us. The telepathy does make things sketchy, and that should have been left out. In fact, if Joe had checked out the digging in the cemetery garage when he first saw it, and met the alien then, that could have fixed a lot of the problems with the third act.

Two-thirds of a really great movie, third act barely holds together, but that last shot of the locket floating away worked for me.

Not much to add, but...

I was really surprised that I had a great time watching the movie, and was even moved by it at times. But much as I loved the construction and execution of that final locket scene, there were things nagging at me that made me know on some level that it wasn't quite earned.

I know there are probably a lot of things that could have been changed to do this, but offhand, I think two alterations could have made this movie just about perfect: a) the alien doesn't eat people and b) Kyle Chandler and Ron Eldard needed a few more scenes to work toward an organic rather than oddly perfunctory resolution. Do these two things, and I think the movie transcends whatever other faults it may have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlowe's Cat 

Not much to add, but...

 

I was really surprised that I had a great time watching the movie, and was even moved by it at times. But much as I loved the construction and execution of that final locket scene, there were things nagging at me that made me know on some level that it wasn't quite earned.

 

I know there are probably a lot of things that could have been changed to do this, but offhand, I think two alterations could have made this movie just about perfect: a) the alien doesn't eat people and b) Kyle Chandler and Ron Eldard needed a few more scenes to work toward an organic rather than oddly perfunctory resolution. Do these two things, and I think the movie transcends whatever other faults it may have.

 

 

I think a better switch would be to have the monster eat people but not be able to read their minds.  Totally agree about the second part, though.  Giving them something, anything to actually accomplish in the last act would've been a good idea.

Saw it the other day so i thought i would review it on my show 

You know how when you first open a beer, it tastes real good, then the last few swallows are weak and watered down.

Super 8 is just like that. Luckily, seeing the finished zombie movie during the credits is like a shot of tequila.

I think this is going to be my annual Thanksgiving movie from now on.

When it was over I prepared to do that thing where I have to summon up the wherewithal to put a positive spin on a crowd-pleasing movie I didn't like very much so as not to put a damper on my daughter's enthusiasm, but before I could say anything she said "I liked the kids, but the stuff with the alien at the end was so shallow."  That was a good moment.

I wanted to press my luck and ask her if she thought the stuff with the dads was shallow too, but I decided to take what I could get.  Instead I told her I thought she made a good observation.

Anyway, the kids were good, in that artificial 80's way, but everything else... not so much.  The action was almost numbing; which, in an homage to a master like Spielberg, really stands out.  The train sequence was just long, loud, and fiery.  The gas station sequence had about a quarter of the tension it could have.  I guess I stopped noticing after that.

Oh, and although I have plenty of films to catch up on this year, the scene with the teacher's records is my leader in the clubhouse for the worst scene of exposition I have watched all year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkatthemoon 

You know how when you first open a beer, it tastes real good, then the last few swallows are weak and watered down.

 

Super 8 is just like that.

Couldn't say it any better than that.
 

I think I was very kind to the film in page 1. Its very poor story wise and direction wise. The acting and a few moments almost save it.

To think of a film where the reverse happens and humans eating aliens and then escaping its just poor.

I think the kids are really good in it and Chandler as well that storyline works fine.

JJ Abrams really should think twice about some of his choices. I maintain that the film, setting, kids and even the alien angle is a breath of fresh air in our cinemas though.

There is no doubt the package was justifiable just not the contents and execution of said product. Here is hoping Star Trek 2 turns out well.

JJ is overhyped beyond belief...he's not that good.

Anyone read the blu-ray.com review for the film?  Jeeeeeeesus...

Since everyone else threw in their personal gripes:

I hate humanoid faces on movie aliens (especially with the eyes). I know it's a family film and we're supposed to be gaining sympathy for the alien by that point, but I want my aliens to be imaginative and shit. You have the CGI and minds of the designers at your disposal. You don't need to be limited to the big-budget equivalent of gluing a dildo to a dude's forehead. Use the tools you got, man.

Yeah that bluray.com review is mind bogglingly terrific. In what universe does that guy live in?

Might very well be the best film of 2011 are you fucking kidding me?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

Anyone read the blu-ray.com review for the film?  Jeeeeeeesus...

Has shill written all over it.  He might as well have put some kind of disclaimer at the end:

(This review is brought to you by JJ Abrahms and Paramount Pictures)

 

Tonight I finally watched this Motel 6 movie (I can't help but call it that. No offense, but when the majority of people hear Super 8 they don't think of the dated camera first, but rather the hotel chain) and while this is the first time I've read this thread and I only heard some bits and pieces about the film, I am relieved that many felt the same way that I did. I enjoyed all of the kids and how they interacted with each other. Yes, even "the fat kid". That's how kids tend to act at that age, so I wasn't too perturbed by him being a loudmouth and an ass.

It's just unfortunate that the stuff with the kids and adults was usually grating, and the alien invasion stuff was just dumb and cliched. You guys deconstruted things better than I could with all the obvious flaws in the script, so I won't rehash that.

I do think that Elle Fanning did a great job and in fact I think I would have preferred it if the movie was more about her than the young boy it was focused on. And why didn't the monster pick up on her feelings and the abusive relationship she had at home... that seemed more similar to what the creature was going through. I stole that idea from someone else but it makes a lot of sense.

As was mentioned already, Attack the Block was SO much better than this. In fact, that kicked this movie right in the balls in every way, from the plot to the script (especially the script; AtB had a great script where everything flowed together and made sense) to the growth that the kids experience, to the creature(s) and how they looked and being able to get a clear view of said monster.

Speaking of that, I heard that the same guy designed the creature in this movie, in Star Trek, and Cloverfield; it'd be nice if he was more original in his designs.

At least I do think that the movie the kids filmed and you see in the end credits was pretty great. Also, the train derailment was pretty great; if only the dude driving the truck wouldn't have survived! As was mentioned before, with a better script he would have been killed and his motivations still could have been explained.

Overall, what a disappointment this was and I'm glad I did not see it on the big screen.

It doesn't hold together in some respects, particularly in how the two dads'  conflict is resolved. But there's still a ton of stuff I liked/loved here, and I do tend to admire movies that swing for the fences (which this totally does) and don't quite make it. Laundry list!:

-I actually kind of enjoyed how the alien's actions were occasionally inexplicable, such as what the hell he was planning to do with those strung-up bodies on the way home.

-The kids are indeed great, especially Joel Courtney and Elle Fanning, whose shy romance is one of the best things about the film. The adults don't fare quite as well, but Kyle Chandler (who seems like he could be a real small-town cop), Ron Eldard and Noah Emmerich (who I seem to always mix up with Will Patton for some reason) in full military douchebag mode are probably the best in that group.

-The spectacular train crash is an instructive exercise in two things. The first is that mixing CGI and practical, which this does, remains one of the best effects methods. The second is that while they could have just as easily done an all-practical train crash, it probably wouldn't have crashed like THAT.

-J.J. Abrams may not be the greatest writer in the world, but he can sure shoot a movie at this point. It does have a true Spielbergian scale and sense of wonder at several points. For instance, the final confrontation between Joe and the alien (oh God I too can see Bruce Greenwood in his face!) is cheesy as all hell, but Abrams plays it completely straight and so it actually ends up gaining some power. The spaceship takeoff and the final locket reveal as it flies off are also great.

-I liked details such as the dogs all running out of town, Charles' household resembling a zoo whenever we cut to it, the E.T.-esque flashlight shots, or the unmistakable sound of Louis' Dodge Charger.

-The full version of "The Case" during the credits was quite possibly the best part of the entire film.

-Seriously, give Michael Giacchino a fucking Oscar already. He's taking from the past, no question, but goddamn his scores are all the more excellent for it.

-I'll admit that the lens flares during the filming of Alice's first scene were a little distracting. Thankfully Abrams mostly ditches them after this, or if he didn't, I failed to notice.

So in the end, it's not quite a classic, but neither is it a dud. All in all, I'd say it's straight-up "good". And that's OK.

When I got to the finale, I fully expected the two dads to work together to save their kids from the alien. Instead, we're clearly shown it eating a human leg, kidnapping a child for no reason but to eat her or possibly as a, kill the sheriff and a housewife...and than suddenly we're supposed to sympathize with it and feel sorry because of those aweful forced puppy eyes? That all the alien had to do in order to be friendly was a human boy telling him to let go? That we're supposed to be happy when the spaceship takes off instead of the military blowing it up?

I rather liked the film, even as an obvious 80's Spielberg button-pusher with WAY TOO LOUD noises and especially during the ridiclous over-the-top train crash, but that final moment utterly ruined the entire movie for me.