THE AVENGERS (2012) Pre-Release. - Page 33

Kang the Conqueror would be an awesome choice for a sequel.  If they never go that route though, at least they've used to him to great effect in the current cartoon series (which really is as good as everyone says).

Yeah, I admit to wondering how it would be possible to keep upping the ante with villains that are capable of challenging the Avengers after one movie, but the cartoon threw out a half dozen concepts that could work great at feature length (AIM, Masters of Evil, Kang, Ultron, Gamma World, Skrulls) over the course of a season.

Oh man, I'd love to see Ultron! I'm still holding out hope that we'll get an Edgar Wright-directed Ant Man movie before the seeminlgy inevitable Avengers sequel.

Avengers vs Freddy vs Jason! The smash flop of 2014 (aka, Josh's favorite movie of all time).

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSaxon 

Oh man, I'd love to see Ultron! I'm still holding out hope that we'll get an Edgar Wright-directed Ant Man movie before the seeminlgy inevitable Avengers sequel.

I thought initially "pfft, a robot, that's fine and all but how is it supposed to challenge this whole team of supermen?"  Then I watched the cartoon and he's not a robot, he's basically Skynet with hundreds of robot bodies, and it's like "duh, of course that's how you do it."  I think if you're Whedon you still mix it with something else (like the Avengers are already at war with AIM/Hydra when Ultron gets loose and runs amok), but it could carry an entire entry in a pinch.

I might be alone in this, but the Civil War story line hit all the right buttons for me. I don't think it could realistically be moviefied without the universe being greatly expanded (bringing back X-Men and the FF in to the fold), but I would love to see it.

I'm in the AVENGERS press conference right now. RDJ just said that they're all shooting another scene tonight. Then said, "I'm not kidding." Then he said, "No more questions," and the cast left. I am now consumed with curiosity!

Dramatic! Do you remember enough to point out the new scene if there is one during general release?

Yes, I think so. Unless it is scattered inserts or something.

I'll grill Kevin Feige about it in my 1:1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz 

I thought initially "pfft, a robot, that's fine and all but how is it supposed to challenge this whole team of supermen?"  Then I watched the cartoon and he's not a robot, he's basically Skynet with hundreds of robot bodies, and it's like "duh, of course that's how you do it."  I think if you're Whedon you still mix it with something else (like the Avengers are already at war with AIM/Hydra when Ultron gets loose and runs amok), but it could carry an entire entry in a pinch.

Yeah, my experience of the character comes purely from the cartoon and I thought he was fantastic there. If they could somehow establish him in the Ant Man movie as a force for good, but then show his betrayal in Avengers 2, it would give Hank Pym some meaty scenes as he comprehends what he's unleashed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeI 

I might be alone in this, but the Civil War story line hit all the right buttons for me. I don't think it could realistically be moviefied without the universe being greatly expanded (bringing back X-Men and the FF in to the fold), but I would love to see it.

That's a story line that requires a lot more shared history than a single team-up film, particularly one where it seems they spend more screentime clashing with each other than the aliens, for optimum impact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSaxon 

Yeah, my experience of the character comes purely from the cartoon and I thought he was fantastic there. If they could somehow establish him in the Ant Man movie as a force for good, but then show his betrayal in Avengers 2, it would give Hank Pym some meaty scenes as he comprehends what he's unleashed.

I think that a good script could effectively establish that in the first act (and sub in Stark as the creator if necessary), but I'm certainly not against an Edgar Wright superhero movie.

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Originally Posted by Freeman 

Man, as cool as all of these heroes are, there's just no beating turning into a ten foot tall rage monster and breaking shit.  It taps into the six year old boy in me who laughed insanely whilst smashing a lego town.  Cap telling Hulk to smash and Hulk smerking perfectly sums it up.

Lego was for building, not smashing!  You heartless monster! *weeps*

Guys, do you think we should create a Post Release Thread and reserve all the spoilers there instead? Might be helpful for those of us we only get this released in May.

THEN:

NOW (the best full cast photo I could find):

Despite never being a big Avengers fan, it still geeks me out that this actually happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by felix 

Guys, do you think we should create a Post Release Thread and reserve all the spoilers there instead? Might be helpful for those of us we only get this released in May.

I think that might be a good idea.

I say we all look at each other until someone does it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSaxon 

Yeah, my experience of the character comes purely from the cartoon and I thought he was fantastic there. If they could somehow establish him in the Ant Man movie as a force for good, but then show his betrayal in Avengers 2, it would give Hank Pym some meaty scenes as he comprehends what he's unleashed.

I don't think this would ever work, and it highlights the problems with Ant-Man as a character: his main contributions to the Marvel mythos are building a killer robot that wreaks untold havoc, and beating his wife. What a hero!

I tend to agree with the idea of making Stark the creator of Ultron, if they're going to do it. Just leave Ant-Man out of it entirely, unless you want to make him a supporting character and put the real focus on The Wasp.

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Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

Word is that they finally got Hulk right. YAY! 'Bout freakin' time.

From the moment they cast Ruffalo my hope was rekindled on that one.

I'm doing a watch-along of the leadup movies with my nephew right now to get ready for this - looks like it'll be worth a proper build up - fantastic. Joss you fucking little wonderkid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeI 

I might be alone in this, but the Civil War story line hit all the right buttons for me. I don't think it could realistically be moviefied without the universe being greatly expanded (bringing back X-Men and the FF in to the fold), but I would love to see it.

Far from alone - I really liked Civil War. What with so many characters, and the movie rights to all those characters tied up who knows where, I think it would work better as an animated film, the way DC has done with some of their better known stories.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grubstreeter 

Far from alone - I really liked Civil War. What with so many characters, and the movie rights to all those characters tied up who knows where, I think it would work better as an animated film, the way DC has done with some of their better known stories.

Yeah, animation is the way to go. For it to work, you need to have more characters than are reasonable in a movie, many of which they don't have the rights, and they need to be lived in. The movies just can't build to something like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz 

I thought initially "pfft, a robot, that's fine and all but how is it supposed to challenge this whole team of supermen?"  Then I watched the cartoon and he's not a robot, he's basically Skynet with hundreds of robot bodies, and it's like "duh, of course that's how you do it."  I think if you're Whedon you still mix it with something else (like the Avengers are already at war with AIM/Hydra when Ultron gets loose and runs amok), but it could carry an entire entry in a pinch.

Like i said above, read "Ultron Unlimited", in which Ultron actually kills a whole eastern european nation just to establish a base of operations for his plan; as i was younger, what terrified me about Ultron was that he was artificial yet he had a personality of sorts; the thing hated humanity with nothing but raw disgust and loathing, and he actually enjoyed messing up the Avengers lives as if it were a personal thing...plus, the big twist in "Ultron Unlimited" is damn genius and adds a TON of layers and comlexity to the character.

As for Kang, what I love about him is that the guy has pretty much already won; he is a legendary conqueror and emperor of earth in far, far future, but his hubris and thirst for conquest and foes worthy of him making him actually travel back in time and mess up the timeline JUST to prove himself; hell, he may be the only marvel villian who has actually conquered the world by sheer use of military might and strategy genius.

Also, the only thing i'll miss in the Avengers is not having Jarvis the butler in it; hell, maybe Stark actually modelled his Jarvis AI on an old butler of his dad or something like that, but Jarvis always struck me as a genius touch of humanity and class to the Avengers; the guy was their friend, confidant and pretty much ran their base of operations, all while serving tea or making sure the place was spotless and Stark always had a glass of scotch in his hand and that Thor never ran out of mead; hell, they guy pretty much walked around during attacks on the Mansion cleaning stuff and making sure the more expensive decorations were not damaged by a stray laser o the like.

I'm up for a Hydra/Red Skull team up. Hydra's always good for shenanigans, and them fighting SHIELD scratches my GiJoe/Cobra itch.

Plug in your Jolie/Sienna Miller/Jovovich/Beckinsale as Madame Hydra and ta da!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Miller 

I'm in the AVENGERS press conference right now. RDJ just said that they're all shooting another scene tonight. Then said, "I'm not kidding." Then he said, "No more questions," and the cast left. I am now consumed with curiosity!

RDJ should end all his press conferences by saying "I am Iron Man'.

And all present would just blink and say, "yeah, we know, we've seen the movies."

When does this embargo end? I notice that AICN has what appears to be an Avengers review up on their site but I'd rather read the thoughts of someone like Nick or Devin.

btw - here's that post-release thread some were asking for to avoid spoilers. http://www.chud.com/community/t/143028/the-avengers-2012-post-release#post_3307443

     Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Miller 

btw - here's that post-release thread some were asking for to avoid spoilers. http://www.chud.com/community/t/143028/the-avengers-2012-post-release#post_3307443

http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=bst&media=MP3S&type=Movies&movie=Knocked_Up&quote=gointhere.txt&file=gointhere.mp3

http://clairebearer.deviantart.com/art/Avengers-Assemble-294328725

Oh how I wish there was a downloadable turn-based RPG in this style.

A short new clip between Capt. and Thor that gives a nice impression of the action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSYYVdbYlZE&hd=1

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Originally Posted by Draco Senior 

A short new clip between Capt. and Thor that gives a nice impression of the action:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSYYVdbYlZE&hd=1

Nice.  Like the dramatic weight (battle fatigue) in that short clip.

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Originally Posted by Shaun H 

     Quote:

 

http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=bst&media=MP3S&type=Movies&movie=Knocked_Up&quote=gointhere.txt&file=gointhere.mp3

Heh.

Wouldn't it be cool if Stephen Colbert does a cameo. Maybe a S.H.E.I.L.D. agent or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Miller 

Avengers vs Freddy vs Jason! The smash flop of 2014 (aka, Josh's favorite movie of all time).

Freddy Would get a hold of the Cerebro  to dream warrior everybody on Earth at the same time...Jason would turn out to be a parasite from Venom's planet that took over the teenage Boorhees DNA and was responsible for his seeming immortality. They would both be the pawns of Galactus until thier rights reverted to another franchise.

Love the Freddy and Cerebro bit.

Josh Whedon says they'll be 30mins of Deleted scenes.

Nice.  

Sigh. The kinds of stuff he's describing as being cut is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to be in the film, particularly the "Cap in the present" stuff. Hopefully some of it's been retained, but I *want* a movie featuring Captain America to be a little political. There really is a lot to be said about how far America has fallen since the FDR era, and the fact that the character who a lot of people would probably assume is all about mindless jingo-ism would probably be the guy saying, "You guys don't have universal health care yet? Or moonbases? And why do you spend all your time ranting about homosexuals?" Not to idealize the Greatest Generation or anything, but it's definitely a good excuse to break through people's stereotypes about the past, and having him play off against Stark, the libertarian industrialist, would be even more entertaining.

C'moooooooooon extended cut!

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Originally Posted by Whiteboy Jones 

C'moooooooooon extended cut!

He's been pretty explicit about the lack of the extended cut.

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Originally Posted by Schwartz 

Yeah, I admit to wondering how it would be possible to keep upping the ante with villains that are capable of challenging the Avengers after one movie, but the cartoon threw out a half dozen concepts that could work great at feature length (AIM, Masters of Evil, Kang, Ultron, Gamma World, Skrulls) over the course of a season.

EXACTLY.  There is tons of material to be mined for future solo adventures AND team-up films.  They have decades of comics at their finger tips people.  Stop worrying!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSaxon 

Oh man, I'd love to see Ultron! I'm still holding out hope that we'll get an Edgar Wright-directed Ant Man movie before the seeminlgy inevitable Avengers sequel.

Indeed.  I wouldn't put it past Wright at all to slowly tease Ultron throughout his Ant-Man script (which covers decades and two iterations of the character).

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeI 

I might be alone in this, but the Civil War story line hit all the right buttons for me. I don't think it could realistically be moviefied without the universe being greatly expanded (bringing back X-Men and the FF in to the fold), but I would love to see it.

Evans, while obviously enjoying the role and giving it his all, seems set on only doing the six films he is contracted for..............so perhaps a "death of Captain America" tale isn't out of the question.  No need to recast the role when you can just replace his spot on the team with a new character once his contract is up.  Why not give the series some dramatic weight on down the line?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Miller 

I'm in the AVENGERS press conference right now. RDJ just said that they're all shooting another scene tonight. Then said, "I'm not kidding." Then he said, "No more questions," and the cast left. I am now consumed with curiosity!

Considering Iron Man 3 begins filming next month.  How much do you want to bet that this is going to be a post-credits sequence setting it up.............perhaps with Shane Black behind the camera (ala Whedon on the Thor one)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning Slim 

I'm up for a Hydra/Red Skull team up. Hydra's always good for shenanigans, and them fighting SHIELD scratches my GiJoe/Cobra itch.

 

Plug in your Jolie/Sienna Miller/Jovovich/Beckinsale as Madame Hydra and ta da!

Better yet.  Hydra is alive and well as an organization in the present day, coming out of hiding to take on the world.  Cap is there to stop 'em.  Have Madame Hydra and/or Baron Zemo in charge.  They fail and Red Skull zaps his way back into Midguard at the end to tease Cap 3 or a Masters of Evil-esque Avengers 2, retaking control of his group.  Corny?  Yeah.  Likely?  Definitely.

I'll be shocked if Hydra doesn't pop up in Captain America 2 and there's no way Red Skull is dead.

The better question is if and/or how the Howling Commandos factor in to a Cap sequel.  I'd love to see a few of them in suspended animation and thawed out to help fill out a new team for Cap.  We already know SHIELD is going to be all over Cap 2 (and probably IM3), so why not go all-out?  At least give us Dugan!

Does anyone know when the embargo is lifted on this?

I'm trying to avoid everything but I will check out the reviews when they hit. I've heard there are surprises that I really don't want spoiled.

I will check out Chud, Devin and maybe Drew's review. They should be pretty safe.

Fuck a duck, this is killing me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reasor 

The positive side of all this is that Whedon said he cut the scenes after second-guessing his own excesses, putting what he thought was best for Marvel and for the film above his own self-indulgence. To me, that seems to eliminate a lot of the concerns we might have had about his direction, and might partly explain why the end result has garnered so much positive word of mouth.

Whedon can be a bit of a company man at times; hell, I wish he would indulge himself more often. A lot of his work has been shaped by circumstances, or the wishes of the people upstairs, often to brilliant effect, but still. I worry that he's saying that to cover Marvel insisting that he cut out scenes that were too challenging or politically charged.

That said, obviously three hours was never going to work. Does that mean the movie is two and a half hours long?

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Originally Posted by The Prankster 

 

That said, obviously three hours was never going to work. Does that mean the movie is two and a half hours long?

 

I've heard 2h 20m from a few places.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Prankster 

 I worry that he's saying that to cover Marvel insisting that he cut out scenes that were too challenging or politically charged.

I don't think there's anything to suggest that Whedon or Marvel are interested in using Captain America as the liberal mouthpiece/guilty conscience of a nation figure you envision.  Not that it wouldn't be interesting to bounce that guy off of a more politicized Iron Man, but it's not like the only explanation for not going that route is that Rupert Murdoch nixed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz 

I don't think there's anything to suggest that Whedon or Marvel are interested in using Captain America as the liberal mouthpiece/guilty conscience of a nation figure you envision.  Not that it wouldn't be interesting to bounce that guy off of a more politicized Iron Man, but it's not like the only explanation for not going that route is that Rupert Murdoch nixed it.

I would be really, really surprised if any of the future Captain America cinema outings end up remotely as political as the comics have at times been. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz 

I don't think there's anything to suggest that Whedon or Marvel are interested in using Captain America as the liberal mouthpiece/guilty conscience of a nation figure you envision.  Not that it wouldn't be interesting to bounce that guy off of a more politicized Iron Man, but it's not like the only explanation for not going that route is that Rupert Murdoch nixed it.

Whedon basically suggests as much (that there was a political dimension to some of the stuff cut out) in the article linked to above. I'm not saying I want hardcore liberal proscetylizing, (guh, I can't spell), but they can at least hint slightly at political ideas, like they did with Iron Man 1 and 2, especially 2, which set him up as basically a libertarian/capitalist superhero. For that matter, Firefly did something similar, dealing in politics without directly addressing modern politics. Obviously we're all here for the superhero punch up, but Whedon's a smart filmmaker, and at least a trace of politics are going to work their way into any story about Captain America anyway, so why not try to use that smartly? (Besides, I'd really hate the idea that we get a libertarian industrialist presented as a big hero without at least a little bit of left-wing balance. At any rate, it sure looks like the clash between Cap and Iron Man is going to be part of the film, even if it's not expressly political...)

And I'm not accusing some conspiracy of stripping the movie of political aspects, just that that's what tends to happen with big dumb blockbusters that don't want to offend anyone. It would be nice if there were some ideas sprinkled throughout the movie.

At the very least, they do need to address the idea that Cap feels lost in the modern day, and that sounds like it was a big part of what was cut. That doesn't mean it's not in the finished movie, either, but I've been saying from the start the most emotional aspect of Cap's journey is what happens when he finds himself a relic. I'd hate for it to jump right from WWII to alien-smashing with no pause to reflect on that.

Sadly I think that's what we'll get. The Avengers train was moving, and there was no time for what should have been Cap 2: Cap waking up to the new world, and adjusting as he relearns his place in the world. I think Cap 1 would have been a stronger film if it ended in Cap's sacrifice, and left the 'thawing' for a sequel.