THE AVENGERS (2012) Pre-Release. - Page 13

That's talking! "Caesar is home" was talking! Motherfucker talks!

I think you mean conversing. That's what you're getting at, right?

Okay, that was pretty great. "We have a Hulk."

 

Digging that music.

He did it better in The Authority.

 

The Authority, as designed by Warren Ellis, is fascism for liberals.

Yeah, that's totally a wormhole of some kind, not a mothership. Although I'm thinking we'll get both, since that thing the aliens were jumping off looked like a pretty big ship of some kind. The aliens themselves look sort of odd -- definitely Frost Giant-esque in how tribal they look, but I don't think it would make much sense for Loki to team up with Frost Giants after trying to kill them all at the end of Thor. Although I guess he could just blame it on Odin, being a master manipulator and such...

 

Anyway I doubt they're Frost Giants. Probably somebody else. Didn't Feige say in a recent interview the aliens were something we hadn't seen before in the movies?

He emphatically denied the Skrulls, but I don't recall Feige allowing himself to be tricked into revealing anything in the affirmative. They're still sitting on this big secret.

I just think it's cool that Hulk's actually going to be part of the team. That's something we've never really seen in the comics. Sure he was in the first couple of Avengers comics, but he was always at odds with the team. 

 

And I think the shot of Hulk running through a building or something confirms a  scene description that was posted online a couple of weeks ago. It sounded pretty fun.

The Super Bowl spot mostly works for me, but that shot with the camera circling the Avengers as they prepare for battle only emphasizes one of the big obstacles this movie has to overcome - making Hawkeye and Black Widow relevant. I mean seriously - you've got Iron Man, Hulk, Thor and Captain America there and Scarlett Johansson is... ejecting a clip from her pistol and reloading? That thing better shoot nuclear bullets or something.

Yep, sadly Black Widow's "gearing up" moment is pretty laughable. She could've at least loaded the clip in some cool superhero manner that didn't make her look like a cop who's two weeks away from retirement.

Great, now I'm gonna have a weird urge throughout the movie to hear her say, "I'm getting too old for this shit."

This...ASSEMBLAGE of...The Avengers is...Awesome!

You can do away with that tendency by thinking to yourself about how you wouldn't mind "Roger-ing her Murtaugh".

 

Isn't Black Widows power in these movies simply being really really ridiculously good looking?

 

  

 

 

 

She's this series Emma Peel - I have no problem with this. Hell they can throw John Steed in there as well for all I care.

I live forever hopeful that Tasha would end up with the Widow's Sting that Tony seemed ready to prepare for her....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5phpuTutGlk

 

At least let her get her hands on some BFG during the fight. Please? It only makes sense with Whedon's fetish for girl power.

Well, being that Black Widow's primary takedown move is the old "crotch to face/thighs around the neck" body toss, all that's left to be said is, "Yes, I WOULD like to receive a free pamphlet describing how I could learn more about joining your HYDRA organization".

A-hem, it's called a Hurricanrana sir and it can be a beautiful thing between two consenting adults...

 

Hey at least she isn't shooting a Bow and Arrow.

I'm aware he's not actually that big a nob in real life, but he's still a HUGE panderer. This isn't like Rorschach where dimbulbs miss the obvious complexities of the character. There's very little ironic distance with his Cap, and plenty for neanderthals (and there are plenty of neanderthals amongst comics fandom) to stand up and cheer for. I mean, the Ultimates have basically become "the" model for much of the mainstream superhero world, particularly Marvel. And Millar designed it that way. The Ultimates is practically screaming "USE ME AS MODEL FOR AVENGERS MOVIE PLEEZ" on every page. Which is what happened.

 

And that's a problem, because it just exacerbated the trend of turning superhero narratives into wish-fulfillment for thugs. I don't mean to sound tight-assed here, but with superheroes we're talking about a concept that was originally crafted to appeal to the best in people, whatever problematic baggage it accrued over the years. No matter how many comics covers you can point to demonstrating that Superman is a dick, the concept of Superman as the best of humanity still endures, and every once in a while it shines through in a tremendous story that inspires or provokes. Whereas when Millar or Warren Ellis turn Captain America into an asshole (as some blogger I read pointed out, it's almost ALWAYS British writers who deliberately write Cap as an asshole) as a half-assed form of satire, all they're doing is clearing a very low bar that Mad magazine already hurdled half a century ago. Yes, I get they want to make the point about how America sees itself vs. how it actually behaves, but is there really anyone left in the comics-reading world who doesn't get it anymore? All they're doing is breaking the characters, making them into "heroes" in ironic quotemarks that no one would actually want to read about on a regular basis except for precisely the kind of specimens who don't get the satire anyway. And sure enough, superhero comics readers now consist of an inordinate proportion of mouth-breathing lunkheads. Ask yourself, what's more transgressive at this point: a Cap who implicitly condones torture, as Ellis has him doing, or a Cap who came out in support of illegal immigrants, legalized drugs and gay marriage? Because I know which one Marvel editorial would publish without a qualm (and did), and which one would send them running for the hills.

Anyway. Trailer. It looks amazing. The 360 shot of the various heroes looks corny in exactly the way a superhero movie should be corny.

 

If I hear one more person remark "it looks like TV!" I'm going to spit. What fucking TV shows are these people watching?

I loved the Loki shot at the end.. The Black Widow only having a glock was kind of funny. Maybe it's a good idea if she just set this one out.

I think it's the aspect ratio. It's being shot in a frame usually employed by modern TV shows. Which is weird, since all the Marvel movies leading up to this one have been in scope. There's also, as Devin pointed out, the feeling that only one street in New York is under attack. It's also pretty flat lighting and close-up happy.

 

It's not TV, but I dunno, it could certainly be "bigger" in its compositions. But if the movie's fun, who gives a damn.

It looks like New York is the focus, yes...just like it always is in the Marvel universe.

 

I dunno, the point about the aspect ratio is taken, but I'm not seeing the "small" complaints. It looks like there's a big alien (or whatever) invasion. There are a lot of close ups because there are a lot of iconic characters and big-name stars. Otherwise, it's a minute-long advertisement for a movie that still probably has a lot of CGI work to do. I don't think it's fair to complain about the absence of something when the time is so limited and the emphasis is on showing off the Marvel characters.

So, in regards to Loki's army, be it Skrulls, Chitauri, Frost Giants, etc., what do these guys look like?

 

Still not earth shattering but way better than the first trailer. At least it tries to acknowledge the (in this fictional universe) enormity of what is happening. 

Neoolong, I am going with an...obscure villain.  Arkon The Imperion!  He is the leader of the planet Polmachus, and he travels from his dimension to earth by throwing different color lightening bolts.  He has a whole...World to fight The Assembled Avengers!

They look like Frost Giants to me. But the trailer also showed the enemies to be more technology based. Maybe Loki's army is made up of a bunch of factions?

 

 

Looks like a cross between the Skrulls and the Kree to me...but thats just my gut instinct.

 

My favorite ridiculous Mark Millar moment? During the Wolverine "Enemy of the State" storyline, Wolverine is sent to kill Daredevil and finds Matt sleeping on his couch in full Daredevil attire. WTF?

Looks like they could still be any number of things that have been "movied up."  Of the choices listed, that looks to me like movie-fied Skrulls, but not so much that I'd preclude the possibility of being something else.

Ran into this while nosing around BAD:

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/02/05/lokis-army-revealed-avengers-superbowl-trailer-know-who-they-ish/

 

Muspellheim?

It's always a possibility, but I think they may be reaching here...and also ignoring the shot elsewhere in the trailer which seems to include bad guys deploying from what looks like a "mothership" while Iron Man zooms up to fight them.

 

Also from a thematic standpoint, I don't know that the Cinematic Marvel Universe is best served by making the Avengers villains fully and completely Thor-based.  If the idea is to expand the universe and open it up to new possibilities and approaches, I think introducing a more "traditional" alien race works better than just "Oh, they're just Dark Elves from DarkElfHeim."  With the former, you at least partially crack the doorway open for other alien races, "cosmic" heroes, etc...  With the latter, Avengers kinda becomes a Thor subplot.

There is an awful lot of Loki in the trailers.  Is there precedent for Loki meeting/working with the Skrulls?

 

Could that "mothership" be the SHIELD Helicarrier and they were keeping the cube onboard it and a portal was opened bringing Loki's army to Earth?

I almost want to think that they're fighting Frost Giants armed with more advanced Hydra weaponry.

Sure they could be.  As I said above, pretty much all the possibilities are still "open" (though that glimpse of the "mothership" didn't look anything like the Helicarrier toy or the concept art from the multi-poster they gave out at SDCC last year...looked more like a "flying saucer" kind of thing).  Basically the images don't give us a definitive answer one way or another.  The rest is just my personal opinion.  I don't want everything "space" or "alien" in the cinematic Marvel Universe to be pulled directly from Thor.  I mean, I'm OK with the indirect link of "Loki falling into whatever portal he did at the end of "Thor" led him into contact with another hostile alien race" but less so with "It dropped him right in another realm so he teamed up with the Frost Giants/Trolls/Fire Demons/Dark Elves/Whatever."  Basically I don't want the entire Marvel Universe beyond Earth to be defined solely by the Nine Realms of Asgard.

 

As for precedent?  I don't know about the Skrulls specifically, but Loki's teamed up with all kinds of other Marvel villains and factions at one time or another.  In a far-flung future I'd love to see something akin to "Acts of Vengeance" play out on the silver screen (A subplot Marvel ran in the late 80's that had Loki leading/organizing an alliance of super-villains based on the idea that they might have more success against their foes if they "swapped dance partners").

If I had to guess, I'd say "Thor" was instrumental in introducing the spine of the larger Marvel universe, the Nine Realms. Any interstellar conflict in future Marvel movies ("Dr. Strange," perhaps), will take it's cues from that. Right now we know that the Frost Giants' world (Joutenheim?) is one, Earth and Asgard are others. That leaves six, one of them currently housing Red Skull. I guess the others could include the Negative Zone, and a Skrullworld, but the bottom line is that they're all going to take their cues from the "Thor" movies, with the coming "Thor 2" likely centered around a Nine Realms-related baddie.

The Nine Realms aren't even necessarily the limit on the Marvel movie universe's populated worlds; they're just the ones whose interactions with the Asgardians trickled down into Nordic myth.

I'm keeping in mind that this movie is supposed to expand its audience beyond the comic-reading demographic. It has to make its fictional world accessible to people who don't necessarily know who Marvel's encyclopedic collection of alien races are. Building on the framework provided by the previous movies instead of introducing some new, out of left field antagonist allows some screen time for the heroes to meet for the first time and feel each other out. And make no mistake, the way the Avengers rub off of one another will provide a lot of this movie's highlights.

There will presumably be at least one more movie with the Avengers as a team. If we're lucky, Marvel may continue to make them until the principal actors literally age out of their roles. There's plenty of time to expand the scope of the Marvel universe further. This is why I'm fine with trolls, fire giants, New Men from Wundragore, or whatever these mooks turn out to be.
Edited by Reasor - 2/6/12 at 1:05pm

Yeah, but this is the FIRST time the Avengers come together. It shouldn't just be "the Avengers team up to take care of Thor's business"; that weakens all of them.

 

I really do hope these are original baddies--still hoping for the Skrulls/Chitauri (and what happened to that rumour of Thanos being involved?) However, if it's Frost Giants or Muspells or whatever armed with Cosmic Cube technology, that at least takes it to the next level and justifies a team-up.

 

I think the Nine Realms are other dimensions. Aliens would be from outer space, but in THIS dimension. I think there's a pretty vast universe out there to play with.

I would like if the movie ended with them disbanding, setting the stage for a new Avengers team for a sequel.

 

Dream roster? Ant-Man, Luke Cage, the Wasp, Wonder Man, Black Panther, War Machine, Vision and Ms. Marvel. Maybe throw in Hawkeye, because why not.

 

Thing is, Loki can always go back to Asgard. They have the Infinity Gauntlet on display. Many in the Nine Realms want the Infinity Gauntlet.
 

In other words, yeah, shit could get complex.

 

Or it could be simple, with the tease of a more complex Avengers 2. Which is all sorts of fuck you.

I was secretly hoping for the Skrulls, because well, I love the way those ugly bastards look. Plus I feel robbed that we never got a "goblin-y" look for the Green Goblins in the Spider-Man movies. These bad guys look awfully generic (albeit at a glance).

Oh so nobody secretly hopes it's Kang the conqueror? Well fuck ya'll then!

I'd prefer Krang the conqueror, myself.

 

I was holding out hope for the disco-suited deity The Beyonder, myself. 

Well that's fucking bullshit right there! Doesn't anybody remember when Kang totally revealed that he had placed Tony Stark under mind control years back to destroy the Avengers? And then a younger version of Tony Stark had to be brought from the past to do battle with him? And that Tony Stark had a lot of peppy teenage attitude?

 

Christ what the fuck was going on with you guys in the 90's?

Not reading the comics I bought because they, like, were totally going to be worth a fortune if they stayed in their plastic baggy.

 

The new trailer looked good to me.  I still can't believe this is coming out in a few months.  Absolutely surreal.

It'll be even weirder if it actually turns out to be any good.

The only thing that interests me in this film is The Hulk and he looks wonderfully green.

Quote:

 

Wasn't that Heroes Reborn?  The backhistory of every single comic book hero that's at least ten years old is convoluted to all hell.  All I know is that I better see Hypno-Hustler in the new Spider-man movie or there'll be hell to pay. 

     Quote:

 

Lee's Hulk grew larger (MUCH larger) as he grew angrier; perhaps this Hulk shares that characteristic. I can't remember if Leterrier's Hulk did the same thing.