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THE AVENGERS (2012) Pre-Release. - Page 17

post #801 of 2004
2/20/12 at 9:24am

The two major superhero 'universes' have a few equivalent characters - archers, speedsters, stretchy guys etc. 

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post #802 of 2004
2/20/12 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grubstreeter View Post

The two major superhero 'universes' have a few equivalent characters - archers, speedsters, stretchy guys etc. 



Yeah, but Hawkeye is pretty much a direct analogue of Green Arrow. Even his girlfriend, Mockingbird, is a riff on Black Canary.

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post #803 of 2004
2/20/12 at 10:04am

Hhahahahhhhhhhahaahahhahhah!!

 

Mockingbird.

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post #804 of 2004
2/20/12 at 10:07am

Bendrix, Well that is...one similarity.  Otherwise they are not the same.  GA is a son of a Billionaire, and like Batman has his own...Supercar the...Arrowmobile, and he gets involved in all kinds of social issues.  Hawkeye as a teen ran away to join a circus.  His brother is a crook.  He was mistakenly thought to be a...Villain, and he fought Iron Man.  He and GA both have trick arrows.  Hawkeye is also one of the...cockyest Superheroes in either The Marvel or DC Universe.  He tried to date...The Scarlet Witch, and he did date Black Widow.  He fought Daredevil for the attention of the Black Widow, and she dumped...Both of them for their ridiculous behavior.  Mockingbird is very similar to Black Canary, but she has not been his gal pal as long as Dinah Lance and GA dated.  Those are just some of the differences.  Of course I do have a preference for...Hawkeye!  His...Arrows are cooler as well! AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!

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post #805 of 2004
2/20/12 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grubstreeter View Post

The two major superhero 'universes' have a few equivalent characters - archers, speedsters, stretchy guys etc. 



I never really gave it any thought, but the Vision is essentially Martian Manhunter, no?  And Quasar is a cut-rate Green Lantern.  But I had no idea Green Arrow's girlfriend was Black Canary.  That's kind of hilarious.

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post #806 of 2004
2/20/12 at 10:33am

I never thought about the Mockingbird/Black Canary thing.

 

To be fair, wasn't Hawkeye originally introduced as a villain and then evolved into a hero? I guess they could have said "we need a Green Arrow" and changed him to fit, but still.

 

Also, I would have said Red Tornado was DC's answer to The Vision rather than The Vision being an answer to Martian Manhunter, but I suppose it's all a rich tapestry of ripoffs.

 

You can even sorta map Cap, Iron Man and Thor onto Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, but that's a stretch, and there's no way it was intentional...

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post #807 of 2004
2/20/12 at 10:48am

 

Quote:

To be fair, wasn't Hawkeye originally introduced as a villain and then evolved into a hero? I guess they could have said "we need a Green Arrow" and changed him to fit, but still.

 

 

 

Yeah I'm pretty sure both Hawkeye and Black Widow happened to briefly be Iron Man antagonists before some Marvel writer got aroused by one or both of them.

 

At least that's what I like to think happened.

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post #808 of 2004
2/20/12 at 10:51am


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega View Post

Yeah I'm pretty sure both Hawkeye and Black Widow happened to briefly be Iron Man antagonists before some Marvel writer got aroused by one or both of them.

 

At least that's what I like to think happened.


 

I think that's how they decided on adding members to the Avengers at one point. They'd flip through a catalog of dormant characters and stop on the ones that gave them boners.

 

EDIT: That's really the only way I can figure Giant Man/Pym.

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post #809 of 2004
2/20/12 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

You can even sorta map Cap, Iron Man and Thor onto Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, but that's a stretch, and there's no way it was intentional...


You can, and it becomes sort of interesting that Marvel's "superman", far from having every power under the sun, is really just a bit stronger and faster than normal folk, and actually lags far behind their billionaire self-made superhero in terms of raw power in sharp contrast to the DC dynamic.  And that when they go the mythological route, one chooses one of the few recognizable warrior woman archetypes while the other has a lightly self-parodic version of square-jawed, traditionalist masculinity complete with an impractically phallic signature weapon.  

 

I don't know what to make of that, but there it is.

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post #810 of 2004
2/20/12 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naisu Baddi View Post

 

Sounds exactly like Green Arrow, at least the way he was depicted on "Justice League Unlimited". Is there any difference between these character or did one of these studios (Marvel or DC) just rip off the other?
 

 



Hasn't Marvel been 'borrowing' ideas from DC's original titans template on and off since the sixties?

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post #811 of 2004
2/21/12 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post



Hasn't Marvel been 'borrowing' ideas from DC's original titans template on and off since the sixties?



In the case of Hawkeye/Green Arrow it's a little more convoluted.

 

 

Green Arrow as originally presented back in yon Golden Age was a pretty straightforward "Batman with a Bow and Arrow" sort of character.  Fairly bland and simplistic all told, much like almost all superhero characters were cut from mostly the same mold back then.

 

In the Early 60's, Hawkeye was introduced by Marvel as a villain, who eventually reformed and joined the Avengers, but pretty much from the get-go he was the "guy with attitude."  Constantly giving Captain America crap and being quite a pain in the butt, but still good at his job and coming through when the chips were down.

 

Meanwhile, Green Arrow didn't really evolve into the heavily left-leaning, attitudinal loveable jerk that he's known for being until the late 60's/early 70's.

 

So basically...it's really quite questionable who was aping who in this case, as Green Arrow as the "archer superhero" precedes Hawkeye, but the similarities in characterization seem to have come about after Hawkeye's introduction.

 

But in general, yes, given that DC basically invented the two first (and most commonly aped) superhero archetypes as we know them, by definition just about anyone who followed would be emulating them.  Though most of Marvel's more successful characters tended to create (or at least codify) different superheroic archetypes in their own right. Most of Marvel's truly direct DC ripoffs/analogues are third-tier characters at best....

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post #812 of 2004
2/22/12 at 3:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post

What is this TV show talk stemming from?

 

They wouldn't be able to afford the lead actor's salaries, even if it's nothing but team arguments in the SHIELD ready-room. Maybe they'll use movie footage on monitors as SHIELD employees go about their daily business ala THE OFFICE. ;)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post

I think the rumour was that the hypothetical TV show would be focused on Coulson.

 

Nope.  Never read anything about a Coulson show.  I'm talking about a new Incredible Hulk show which is in the works.  Guillermo Del Toro is producing and its one of Kevin Feige's babies (dude has a hard-on for Hulk).  Ruffalo won't be retained for the series, but it will be using the CG models from Avengers and WILL be in-continuity with the Movieverse and presumably other Marvel shows in the works.............AKA Jessica Jones (closest to being made), Punisher, Mockingbird, Cloak & Dagger, etc.

 

http://www.avengersite.com/is-a-new-hulk-tv-series-on-the-way-plus-other-marvel-tv-developments

 

I can't find a more recent announcement, but Feige brings it up (as well as the possibly of another Hulk theatrical outing) quite often in interviews.  All of Marvel's in-development live action shows are set up at ABC, with the exception of Punisher (Fox), so having crossovers and keeping continuity with the films shouldn't be much of a problem.  I believe Luke Cage is supposedly in the pilot script for AKA Jessica Jones, as well as SHIELD.

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post #813 of 2004
2/22/12 at 4:23am

HULK. TV. DEL TORO.

 

oh my goodness. That's the best thing ever. I must see everything about this possible.

 

HULK! HULK! INCREDIBLE HULK!

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post #814 of 2004
2/22/12 at 4:32am

S.D. Bob Plissken, If the Marvel Tv Series are in continuity with the Marvel Movieverse, then Frank Castle should be a Rogue S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent.  I think that could be an interesting series!

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post #815 of 2004
2/22/12 at 4:38am

I've tempered any excitement for a potential Punisher TV show.  Ideally, the character could work very well in that format.  Unless they decide to air it on FX instead though, I don't have much hope.  Even if Fox doesn't neuter it from the get-go, the chances of it being good AND lasting beyond a season are extremely limited.  Besides, all signs point to Frank Castle being a cop by day and the Punisher by night on the show.  That COULD work if they have the balls to kill off as family at the end of the first season, giving us a chance to get to know them well enough to drive the tragedy home...................but I'm not expecting Fox to be that smart or plan that far ahead.

 

Initially Marvel was supposedly talking to Stevenson about reprising the role in some fashion.  I don't see that happening now though.  The info on the show that has been released so far points to a new actor in the role and I can't see Marvel bothering to use Stevenson in a film at some point when they are about the recast the character for TV.

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post #816 of 2004
2/22/12 at 4:41am

S.D. Bob Plissken, Well isn't ABC going to have...Their Hulk, while The Movie Hulk is another actor?  The Punisher Tv Series could be set...Before Punisher War Zone, allowing for a younger Frank Castle in the series, and an older one in theaters!

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post #817 of 2004
2/22/12 at 5:07am

This is true.  You never know, I guess.  Anyway, it will be interesting to see when the first round of Marve Studios' live action TV properties arrives.  I have to hand it to them for taking their time putting the projects together.  They easily could have slapped something half-assed together a couple years ago and chucked it on the air if they had wanted.

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post #818 of 2004
2/22/12 at 6:26am

I could easily get behind a new Hulk show, but I guarantee we'll see 1 or 2 minutes of the monster per ep... at most. It'll be the "Bruce Banner Show" mostly. And yeah, I get it, we're not supposed to want to see the Hulk, because of character development and yadda yadda.

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post #819 of 2004
2/22/12 at 6:30am

Back when the Ang Lee Hulk came out, the sci-fi channel ran a marathon of the old Hulk show, and I watched a few for the first time since my youth. In each episode, he hulked out exactly two times - 20 minutes into the show, and again with 10 minutes to go. You could set your watch by it.

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post #820 of 2004
2/22/12 at 6:52am

I want hulk, all hulk, all the time, or you can fucking forgeddaboutit.

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post #821 of 2004
2/22/12 at 12:22pm

Del Toro is known for creating amazing creatures and their surroundings. Why make a series in which there's barely money for showing the main creature. Or his creature villains. There won't be fight scenes like the Hulk vs Abomination one. Imagine we had a Hellboy movie without the proper sets, with only 15 minutes of Ron Perlman in make-up, the other 85 only seeing John Myers talk with the professor.

 

And what is the target audience? They don't actually believe a HULK series reaches a bigger audience than Smallville, do they?

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post #822 of 2004
2/22/12 at 3:42pm



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post

I could easily get behind a new Hulk show, but I guarantee we'll see 1 or 2 minutes of the monster per ep... at most. It'll be the "Bruce Banner Show" mostly. And yeah, I get it, we're not supposed to want to see the Hulk, because of character development and yadda yadda.



I think you're missing the point. The strength of the original show, and the concept itself, is that it made you want what Banner wanted, while concurrently allowing you to enjoy watching the Hulk tear shit up from time to time. It's a balancing act between helping you to empathize with the main character's dilemma, while enjoying the drama that ensues when said dilemma (routinely) reached its crisis point. You want to see Larry Talbot cured of lycanthropy, you don't want to see Jekyll consumed by Hyde, and with Bruce Banner, you should want him to come to peace with this other complex, but certainly not evil being living inside of him. That is the definition of the concept in its most successful and potent form. You want to watch a giant green monster tear ass and not have to worry about all that other stuff? The answer is simple, watch Godzilla.

 

   

 

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post #823 of 2004
2/22/12 at 5:47pm

I don't know if they could find an actor that could present such humanity and intelligence for a Hulk series as Bill Bixby. Say what you like about the three Banners of the movies, Bixby was spot on perfect for playing Banner on the small screen. He had such a well of affection built up over years of work in television, it was easy to care about him despite the cheesy storylines week after week. You wanted Banner to find a cure, or at least peace, week after week. And there were no dry eyes when at last, at the end of the road Banner didn't get his happy ending. 

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post #824 of 2004
2/22/12 at 6:00pm

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

That is the definition of the concept in its most successful and potent form. You want to watch a giant green monster tear ass and not have to worry about all that other stuff? The answer is simple, watch Godzilla.


Hardly. Hulk isn't a monster, he's can be a good guy, intelligent and resourceful. And grey Hulk had wicked hat. "Monster or Man!?!" Is the most cliche way they could go with it. Make Hulk his own character, let us see the fact that, from the Hulks point of view, as a separate personality, he's constantly being born and then dying at the hands of Banner. But I do agree, they'll have a damn hard time finding someone an audience can feel affection for like Bixby. Those sort of character actors don't get their own shows anymore.

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post #825 of 2004
2/22/12 at 6:04pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

The strength of the original show, and the concept itself, is that it made you want what Banner wanted, while concurrently allowing you to enjoy watching the Hulk tear shit up from time to time. 

   


This, 1000%. You came for the Hulk-made destruction, but stayed because you ached for Bixby's Banner and impossibly hoped he'd find peace.

 

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post #826 of 2004
2/22/12 at 6:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanCE View Post

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post


Hardly. Hulk isn't a monster, he's can be a good guy, intelligent and resourceful. And grey Hulk had wicked hat. "Monster or Man!?!" Is the most cliche way they could go with it. Make Hulk his own character, let us see the fact that, from the Hulks point of view, as a separate personality, he's constantly being born and then dying at the hands of Banner. But I do agree, they'll have a damn hard time finding someone an audience can feel affection for like Bixby. Those sort of character actors don't get their own shows anymore.


If only Ruffallo was considering a move to the small screen.

 

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post #827 of 2004
2/22/12 at 7:31pm

I'm not saying the Hulk series should only consist of Hulk smashing tanks and buildings and punching giant enemies with gloves made of cars. BUT THAT'D BE SO COOL.

 

Actually, it's what MichaelM says. The action may attract but of course it's the human Bruce that needs to stick. He needs to be so sympathic that you forget the constant repetition of the episode's structure over and over again. Bruce arriving somewhere, getting involved in shit, then hulking out and rescueing everyone. Bixby was pitch perfect as Banner, and the heart wrenching theme really is something. Maybe they could just change Banner's motivation from trying to completely stop becoming the Hulk (which really is against the viewer's intention and which, let's be honest, will never happen anyway) into him trying to be able to control his powers. And maybe there's still room for a littlebitofsmashing.

 

I still have no idea what a super low budget cgi Hulk may look like. Will he always stay in shadows like in the South America sequence in TIH?

 

 

 

 

 

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post #828 of 2004
2/22/12 at 11:22pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post


If only Ruffallo was considering a move to the small screen.


Well if Marvel offered him some okay money for it then oh wait nevermind.

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post #829 of 2004
2/23/12 at 1:56am

While we're on the subject, I really like how the current Avengers cartoon has handled Hulk as a character.

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post #830 of 2004
2/23/12 at 3:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

 

Man, those 3rd tier Avengers always have the crassest fans. Just like the gay bear domination subculture that exists around Wonder Man.

 

BeastWondy6.jpg

 

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post #831 of 2004
2/23/12 at 7:30am
Thread Starter 

 

 

 

Quote:
Quint, AICN
Word 'round the campfire is Marvel considers The Avengers to be their best outing yet. I've talked to some cynics in the group who weren't sure it was going to come together and they're all doing their mea culpas now. They say it has the heart, the action, the humor and the suspense a movie like The Avengers should have. The only criticisms I've heard is that Whedon's eye isn't as cinematic as it should be, but that the rest of the movie is so good that you accept it.

 

 

 

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post #832 of 2004
2/23/12 at 7:31am

Cue certain folks saying "It looks like a TV show!"

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post #833 of 2004
2/23/12 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken View Post

While we're on the subject, I really like how the current Avengers cartoon has handled Hulk as a character.



It's not bad, but I think they tend to ignore him. It's really the "Tony Stark learns about humility and patience from Saint Rogers" show.

 

About once an episode they have a "Hulk smarter than you think" moment where he outfoxes somebody then punches them.

 

I'm sounding hyper-critical but the show's actually really cool.

 

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post #834 of 2004
2/23/12 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post


I think you're missing the point. The strength of the original show, and the concept itself, is that it made you want what Banner wanted, while concurrently allowing you to enjoy watching the Hulk tear shit up from time to time. It's a balancing act between helping you to empathize with the main character's dilemma, while enjoying the drama that ensues when said dilemma (routinely) reached its crisis point. You want to see Larry Talbot cured of lycanthropy, you don't want to see Jekyll consumed by Hyde, and with Bruce Banner, you should want him to come to peace with this other complex, but certainly not evil being living inside of him. That is the definition of the concept in its most successful and potent form. You want to watch a giant green monster tear ass and not have to worry about all that other stuff? The answer is simple, watch Godzilla. 

 


No, I totally get that. Good drama is good drama. Come for the super heroics, stay for the character conflict. Balance is important. But on a Hulk show that relies on CG instead of green makeup, they're gonna have to rely on masterful writing to keep things interesting for the 40+ minutes that the monster is NOT on the screen. Look at PRIMEVAL for a tightrope act.

 

And yeah, I'd rather Banner search for inner peace instead of a cure. He's dangerous, but he's not a serial killer like rape-metaphor Mr. Hyde or the uncontrollable Wolfman.

 

As a GODZILLA fan, I can't wait for the kaiju scenes, and many times it's due to the slog of over-long human interaction. It is all about balance, and my desire to see monsters duke it out and smash things is definitely immature lizard-brain territory, but I want my big green catharsis cake served with a sign that reads "EAT ME TOO".

 


Edited by DARKMITE8 - 2/23/12 at 9:19am
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post #835 of 2004
2/23/12 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres View Post

 

 

 

 



Well, good early buzz is nice to hear.  As opposed to, say, "Marvel execs that have seen the film are reportedly polishing their resumes and cashing in their stock options while canceling all screenings for critics."

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post #836 of 2004
2/23/12 at 10:57am

Breaking story:  AICN reports that geek-friendly property is awesome.  In other news, sparrows may have mastered the mechanics of flight.

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post #837 of 2004
2/23/12 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanCE View Post

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post


Hardly. Hulk isn't a monster, he's can be a good guy, intelligent and resourceful. And grey Hulk had wicked hat. "Monster or Man!?!" Is the most cliche way they could go with it. Make Hulk his own character, let us see the fact that, from the Hulks point of view, as a separate personality, he's constantly being born and then dying at the hands of Banner. But I do agree, they'll have a damn hard time finding someone an audience can feel affection for like Bixby. Those sort of character actors don't get their own shows anymore.


Hardly what? In my post I clearly define the Hulk more than just a monster. The relationship that Banner has with Hulk and the dramatic consequences that come out of their differences is the heart of the entire thing, so I don't see that there's much to oppose in what I said.
 

 

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post #838 of 2004
2/28/12 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres View Post

The only criticisms I've heard is that Whedon's eye isn't as cinematic as it should be, but that the rest of the movie is so good that you accept it.

 

 

 



I'm genuinely surprised by this. One of my favourite movies is Serenity (which I saw before Firefly - something I regret now as I wish I'd seen them the other way around) and I never once thought that it looked like a television show. There's lots of nice little cinematic touches in that movie whether it's the opening, ending with The Operative stepping through the hologram, or the final battle with River Tam against the Reavers.

 

Sure, he doesn't use endless lense flares or have a bag of signature camera tricks but I'd argue that he does have a cinematic eye. I can only assume that the budget has restrained him here.

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post #839 of 2004
2/28/12 at 4:00pm

Here are the Bad Guys, in LEGO form:

 

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2012/02/okay_i_dont_know_what_the_hell_the_bad_guys_in_the.php#more

 

Just muddying the waters.

 

Edit: Sorry, main page already has the new poster, so have some more LEGO pictures:

 

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/02/28/avengers-movie-lego-set-loki-army/

 

So the motorcycle is the Avenger? 

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post #840 of 2004
2/28/12 at 4:23pm

Lego Loki might be my favorite Legoperson ever.

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post #841 of 2004
2/29/12 at 7:48am

Apparently us Brits are too dumb to tell two different movies apart.

 

Thank you Marvel for ensuring we don't walk into your movie and scream out "Where the fuck is John Steed?"

 

Crisis averted!

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post #842 of 2004
2/29/12 at 7:54am

Wow is that stupid. I would think the character of Captain America would be only the most obvious of many unneeded signals to even the most uninformed British moviegoer.

 

Hopefully this is a legal thing and not a slight to England's intelligence.

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post #843 of 2004
2/29/12 at 9:31am

New one's up (and submitted to CHUD): http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/marvel/avengers/

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post #844 of 2004
2/29/12 at 9:36am

You know what? I really, really want to see that movie.

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post #845 of 2004
2/29/12 at 9:46am

Can not wait for this. You could remove all the superhero stuff - I'd pay to see this cast sit around a table and talk.

 

Superheroes fighting before they team-up - so glad to see a decades old Marvel tradition is alive and well.

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post #846 of 2004
2/29/12 at 9:53am

Yep, here it be:

It's pretty mega. Though Cap still looks goofy no matter how hard you squint your eyes.

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post #847 of 2004
2/29/12 at 9:53am

My God, I can't get over that trailer. It's fucking amazing.

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post #848 of 2004
2/29/12 at 9:54am

I'm staring to suspect that they cut costs by making Renner's a completely non-speaking role.

 

But that goes a long way to alleviating any concern about the scale of the action.

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post #849 of 2004
2/29/12 at 9:54am

Holy shit...was....was that Fin Fang Foom?

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post #850 of 2004
2/29/12 at 9:56am

Pretty sure it's just a large mechanical monster.  Likely the carrier of those jet bikes.

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