TAG TEAM REVIEW: GAME OF THRONES EP. 8

Another excellent tag team review.

I agree with Nick, in that I think this was the best episode yet. Lots of payoff AND setup, and with a lot of emotional heft and storytelling economy. Like Josh, I hadn't noticed the singular nature of the costumes, but I'm guessing Elisabeth may be right that their reach exceeded their grasp WRT budget and a desire to be original.

Also completely agree that the revenant's fight with Jon was botched, and badly. This should have been an extremely creepy and if possible scary fight, but it was neither. Couldn't even tell the wight's eyes were blue. It's too bad, because the make up on Otho's face was nicely creepy when we first see his body on the sledge. But the scene itself was poorly blocked and shot.

I liked the zombie fight and if the injry Jon sustained will become an issue later on, I'm sure the show will make that clear. It's funny, a friend of mine finds the show boring (don't ask) and while I can sorta get some of his gripes (and the reviewers') I would hate for the show to sacrifice character work or the deft plotting to make way for other less affecting material. I feel like this show is so good, it's almost making up some of the rules (or at least setting the standard for which rules to break) for fantasy TV as it goes along.

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Originally Posted by James May 

All the book talk really turns me off from reading these. I don't think you're dealing in spoilers or anything but I'd rather read a review of the television show without the constant comparisons.

Seconded, for what it's worth.  I still read them all, and I know it's nigh-impossible for someone whose read them not to see it all through that lens, but maybe it's better to just give up on the current format and say "okay, from now on we're just gonna talk about the books freely."   The half measure of constantly comparing them while avoiding any mention of future events just seems to make it so the conversation isn't entirely for the people on either side. 

The writers are doing a good job, and I'd hate to have to avoid future installments, but I still think it would be for the best.  Chud works best when the writers aren't censoring themselves, and it's probably better to talk directly to a certain audience than to give everyone half the conversation they're looking for.

Actually, the very best thing might be to split it into two reviews (like they are at the AV Club and we are on the boards).  Have a noob review with Butler or Riviello and Steve Murphy.  The podcast informs me that he's on a seasonal hiatus, so putting him to work here seems both right and just.  It's probably not worth trying with only a couple weeks left in the season, but something to think about for next year.

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Originally Posted by Schwartz 

Seconded, for what it's worth.  I still read them all, and I know it's nigh-impossible for someone whose read them not to see it all through that lens, but maybe it's better to just give up on the current format and say "okay, from now on we're just gonna talk about the books freely."   The half measure of constantly comparing them while avoiding any mention of future events just seems to make it so the conversation isn't entirely for the people on either side. 

 

The writers are doing a good job, and I'd hate to have to avoid future installments, but I still think it would be for the best.  Chud works best when the writers aren't censoring themselves, and it's probably better to talk directly to a certain audience than to give everyone half the conversation they're looking for.

 

Actually, the very best thing might be to split it into two reviews (like they are at the AV Club and we are on the boards).  Have a noob review with Butler or Riviello and Steve Murphy.  The podcast informs me that he's on a seasonal hiatus, so putting him to work here seems both right and just.  It's probably not worth trying with only a couple weeks left in the season, but something to think about for next year.

I am of the same mind. We've been caught between two worlds. There are only two eps left in Season 1, so there is really no use worrying about it now. But when it comes time for Season 2 we need a new plan. I find it annoying to kind of feign like I don't know certain things, and I worry the articles suffer. I'm sure Rappe is doing the same thing. It's especially frustrating because I think there is a lot of interesting criticism to be had in discussion of the process of adaptation.

Another great tag team review. I have to applaud the reviewers for doing their best not to spoil anything significant from the books, but it must be difficult to discuss the episode and pretend you don't know what's coming next. I have (thus far) decided not to read up ahead of the show, so this Stark vs Lannister battle that is coming makes me rather nervous since I really like the House of Starks, and this is why I love the show because basically every character is in peril and you don't know when the axe will fall for the next guy.

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Originally Posted by Joshua Miller 

I am of the same mind. We've been caught between two worlds. There are only two eps left in Season 1, so there is really no use worrying about it now. But when it comes time for Season 2 we need a new plan. I find it annoying to kind of feign like I don't know certain things, and I worry the articles suffer. I'm sure Rappe is doing the same thing. It's especially frustrating because I think there is a lot of interesting criticism to be had in discussion of the process of adaptation.

Absolutely.  It's become apparent that that is the subject you two are most interested in talking about, but you have to keep stopping yourselves.  I say have at it (only, you know, warn us before you dive in).  As for splitting it into two reviews, while I'm sure that's not logistically feasible for say The Killing, the reaction to GoT in the chewer community has been so overwhelmingly positive that I'm sure you could round up 2-3 voices for either side without any trouble. 

You guys are clearly enjoying the show, but can't fully express the reasons why.  That's definitely not the ideal situation.

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Originally Posted by James May 

All the book talk really turns me off from reading these. I don't think you're dealing in spoilers or anything but I'd rather read a review of the television show without the constant comparisons.

Yup, I feel the same. Either talk bout spoilers freely or don't, but this whole "So-n-so was so much more evocative in the book!" stuff is really grating. The hand thing, for example. It might not have played out the way you guys expected, but it was pretty obvious that he'd hurt himself, so why is a thing like that worth harping on about?

There are a few sites that do both Book Reader and Non-Book Reader reviews of this show, so I think it would be a good idea.

I understand the impetus to do it the way it has been, though.  There's clearly an audience for both types of review, but doing it this way doesn't necessarily exclude the book crowd the way the reverse would the spolierphobes.   The problem has been that you've taken people from one side and made them write for the other.  We come to reviews for the writers' perspective, and making Josh and Elisabeth adopt one that isn't their own is not really fair.

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Originally Posted by Matt Sutton 

There are a few sites that do both Book Reader and Non-Book Reader reviews of this show, so I think it would be a good idea.

That's what we should be doing. The problem is that only three of us CHUD writers are actually watching the show.

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Originally Posted by Joshua Miller 


That's what we should be doing. The problem is that only three of us CHUD writers are actually watching the show.
 

So call up the reserves, like with the Doctor Who reviews.  If Renn, Trevor, Jeremy, Alex, Anderson and Morse really aren't watching, I know from the newbie thread that Stelios, Evi,  Doc Happenin, Jacob Singer, Rain Dog and Spike Marshall all are, and they're sharp, interesting gents.  And it should go without saying that I'd do it. 

What's the worst that could happen?  It sucks and the commenters get some meat to tear into.  Meanwhile, you guys get to have the full, uncensored conversation you want to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Sutton 

There are a few sites that do both Book Reader and Non-Book Reader reviews of this show, so I think it would be a good idea.

I also agree with this. While I enjoy these tag team reviews, I tend to like reading Nick's segments the most because he's the only person reviewing it solely as a show. While for the most part I think you're doing a great job straddling the line Josh, I feel like Elizabeth gets way too bogged down in minutia, and it gets kind of eye rolling to read. That's not to say its bad, its just annoying to someone like me who is just watching this as a television show and not as an adaptation. That's why I concur about doing two separate reviews: One that goes to town comparing and contrasting, and another that evaluates it solely on its own merit as a work of television. 

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Originally Posted by Schwartz 

So call up the reserves, like with the Doctor Who reviews.  If Renn, Trevor, Jeremy, Alex, Anderson and Morse really aren't watching, I know from the newbie thread that Stelios, Evi,  Doc Happenin, Jacob Singer, Rain Dog and Spike Marshall all are, and they're sharp, interesting gents.  And it should go without saying that I'd do it. 

 

What's the worst that could happen?  It sucks and the commenters get some meat to tear into.  Meanwhile, you guys get to have the full, uncensored conversation you want to.

 

 

If the other staff writers don't have their shit together for Season 2 I think that's a great idea.

I hope they can hurry up with the ep. 9 tag team review this week...I'm anxious to read what they have to say.