Breaking Bad Season 4 - Page 2

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Originally Posted by Simon West will kill Again 

I'd argue that Walt never directly murdered someone.  I mean, he stood by and let Jane die, and that dude he killed in his basement could be viewed as self defense, and though he's indirectly responsible for the plane crash, he didn't set out to kill those people.  I might be forgetting some deaths, but it seems like Gale was killed for purely to save Walt's life and Jesse's life.

Well, to get technical about it, Walt's actually been working himself down the murder spectrum.  His first, Crazy 8, was a bonafide first degree murder.  Jane was probably a 2nd degree, since it was an intentional failure to act that caused her to die.  And the dealers he ran over would probably be voluntary manslaughter, since they were a threat to Jesse, but they weren't in the process of attacking him and Walt could've tried to protect him with non-lethal force (putting a bullet in the skull of a guy you just ran over kind of puts the kibosh on necessity as a defense).  Gale's is a difficult one to judge, since you get the same jail time for ordering a murder as committing it, but it had been made clear to him that he would be killed himself if he didn't order the death of a bystander, which is something that doesn't actually happen outside of scripted television*.

Not that any of that matters, really.  The other victims had all put themselves into direct conflict with our guys in some way.  Gale was a threat to them in a roundabout way, but I'm sure he had no idea why he was being shot.  On an emotional level, he registers as collateral damage, and while they've certainly racked up a lot of that, they had never pointed the gun and pulled the trigger before.

*I assume.  I mean, Survivor's been on for like 12 years, right?  It's probably gotten pretty freaky by now.

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Originally Posted by Myducksarecool 

His first big step, for me, was him letting Jane die. The deaths before that point were self-defense related. But in that moment he stood by, did nothing for close to a full minute because he WANTED her to die. One could argue that Gale's death is more important because he was "innocent" or a "good" guy, but Jane's was the turning point, and the moment when I considered him a murderer and someone who deserves to die. Also, it was only because he had already taken that big step with Jane, that he was able to do so again with Gale.

 

However, when you look at the 2 events separately, Janes death is still the worse crime.

 

While I agree with you, from a purely pragmatic standpoint, killing Jane was a smart move.  I think it was less that Walt turned a corner and more like he's continuing his path with iron-willed resolve to achieve what he set out to do.  I think now that he doesn't have the excuse that he's dying to help rationalize his behavior, his decision to murder Gale carries more weight than it did with Jane.

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Originally Posted by Schwartz 

Well, to get technical about it, Walt's actually been working himself down the murder spectrum.  His first, Crazy 8, was a bonafide first degree murder.  Jane was probably a 2nd degree, since it was an intentional failure to act that caused her to die.  And the dealers he ran over would probably be voluntary manslaughter, since they were a threat to Jesse, but they weren't in the process of attacking him and Walt could've tried to protect him with non-lethal force (putting a bullet in the skull of a guy you just ran over kind of puts the kibosh on necessity as a defense).  Gale's is a difficult one to judge, since you get the same jail time for ordering a murder as committing it, but it had been made clear to him that he would be killed himself if he didn't order the death of a bystander, which is something that doesn't actually happen outside of scripted television*.

 

Not that any of that matters, really.  The other victims had all put themselves into direct conflict with our guys in some way.  Gale was a threat to them in a roundabout way, but I'm sure he had no idea why he was being shot.  On an emotional level, he registers as collateral damage, and while they've certainly racked up a lot of that, they had never pointed the gun and pulled the trigger before.

 

*I assume.  I mean, Survivor's been on for like 12 years, right?  It's probably gotten pretty freaky by now.

 

Oh, right.  I had forgotten about the vehicular manslaughter/execution Walt pulled.  That was definitely pretty cold blooded.  Didn't he do that to keep Jesse from having to cross that line though?

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Originally Posted by Simon West will kill Again 

While I agree with you, from a purely pragmatic standpoint, killing Jane was a smart move.  I think it was less that Walt turned a corner and more like he's continuing his path with iron-willed resolve to achieve what he set out to do.  I think now that he doesn't have the excuse that he's dying to help rationalize his behavior, his decision to murder Gale carries more weight than it did with Jane.

 

Idk. In a way it was both, wasn't it?

Before that, I never thought he was capable of killing an innocent (meaning, in no way did she deserve to die). She wasnt even an immediate threat! It was so cold blooded. Thats when he took that step: wanting someone to die, realizing they dont deserve to die, letting them die/killiing them, and not even trying to rationalize it. It was awesome how you could see all the emotions pass across his face as he quickly decided what to do and then just waited for what felt like forever (during which he could have saved her at any time) for the inevitable.

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Originally Posted by Schwartz 
Gale was a threat to them in a roundabout way, but I'm sure he had no idea why he was being shot. 

I'd make one niggling correction there, in that Gale may have been a nonviolent dork but he's far from some innocent naif. The scene between Gus and him in which Gus spills about Walt's cancer, Gus was making it pretty clear that Gale needed to be able to take over the cooking within a week, and not because the cancer was gonna kill Walt within a week. Gale knows what business he's entered, and who with, and what his next role is to be, and why; right there, he silently and knowingly cosigned Walt's death warrant. Hardly an innocent. Pinkman showing up with a gun in his face may have filled Gale's pants, but it's hardly confusing.

Still, he seemed (past tense now) like a nice enough guy, goofily singing along with his Italian operettas. But isn't every bastard on this show.

Gale was obviously trying to talk to Walt though, only he was stopped by Victor. The guy might've been a wimp, but he had a conscience.

I also think you've got to place yourself more in his shoes. Gale has only seen a polite professional, and if I remember correctly, Gus never makes it overt what is going to happen, just that he doesn't expect Walt to last long and he needs to be ready to step up.  For us, that's a giant, blaring siren, because we've seen how cold-blooded the chicken-man can be for a long time, but for him, there's just enough room to doubt what it really means and not try too hard to warn Walt.  Gus has always been very savvy about allowing his meth chefs their delusions when it will serve to draw them in past their depth.

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Originally Posted by Myducksarecool 

Idk. In a way it was both, wasn't it?

 

Before that, I never thought he was capable of killing an innocent (meaning, in no way did she deserve to die). She wasnt even an immediate threat! It was so cold blooded. Thats when he took that step: wanting someone to die, realizing they dont deserve to die, letting them die/killiing them, and not even trying to rationalize it. It was awesome how you could see all the emotions pass across his face as he quickly decided what to do and then just waited for what felt like forever (during which he could have saved her at any time) for the inevitable.

 

As far as I'm concerned, letting Jesse's girlfriend die was the point of no return for Walt. And yes, Cranston's conflict in that scene is awesome (perfect example of why he truly deserves all those awards). You can actually see Walt's humanity leave him in that moment, and it hurts.

I don't care if the girlfriend was a bit of a bitch sometimes, or if Gale was kind of a nice guy. In the end she was innocent (a user), he was not (a maker). Ordering Gale's death only matters because it shows that push come to shove, Walt is willing to send Jesse down the same path. Walt really can't go much lower now, he can just become more cunning and powerful in his career as meth king. The tragedy of the show now is about who else Walt is going to drag down with him.

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Originally Posted by Disciple_72 

 

As far as I'm concerned, letting Jesse's girlfriend die was the point of no return for Walt. And yes, Cranston's conflict in that scene is awesome (perfect example of why he truly deserves all those awards). You can actually see Walt's humanity leave him in that moment, and it hurts.

 

I don't care if the girlfriend was a bit of a bitch sometimes, or if Gale was kind of a nice guy. In the end she was innocent (a user), he was not (a maker). Ordering Gale's death only matters because it shows that push come to shove, Walt is willing to send Jesse down the same path. Walt really can't go much lower now, he can just become more cunning and powerful in his career as meth king. The tragedy of the show now is about who else Walt is going to drag down with him.

 

But it's not really about their relative innocence. Don't forget the talk he had with Jane's dad right before he drove back to the house... "You don't give up on family!" When Walt let Jane die, it was a terrible thing, but he wasn't doing it for himself, he was doing it to save Jesse, taking the burden of Jane's death on himself to save a person he loves. Gale was a different matter though. He did it with forethought, to a man he had nothing against and all in an effort to save his own ass.

All that's left is to see him kill someone out of pure greed, and when noone's life is on the line. That's when you'll know he's lost.

Gilligan hasn't pulled any punches so far and he's too good to start now.  I feel absolutely certain Gale is dead.  

Few things irritate me like fan uproar over the death of a prominent character on a television series, especially when its done to such great effect and in service of the story and/or characters (see also: Game of Thrones).  Obviously this isn't directed at anyone here, but if you are throwing hissy fits over such a well-crafted dramatic turn of events, Breaking Bad was probably never the show for you in the first place.  

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Originally Posted by Evi 

But it's not really about their relative innocence. Don't forget the talk he had with Jane's dad right before he drove back to the house... "You don't give up on family!" When Walt let Jane die, it was a terrible thing, but he wasn't doing it for himself, he was doing it to save Jesse, taking the burden of Jane's death on himself to save a person he loves. Gale was a different matter though. He did it with forethought, to a man he had nothing against and all in an effort to save his own ass.

The "You don't give up on family" pep talk was what made Walt go back to try and talk Jesse into going clean and sober one more time, it didn't make him decide to take Jane out of the picture altogether. He made a selfish, opportunistic decision when she started choking. Jane knew too much about Walt's operation, and was willing to blackmail him for money. And she could easily have squeezed him for more when that initial cash ran out. Allowing Jane to die wasn't some noble sacrifice on Walt's part, he had far too much at stake personally.

Saying he let Jane die because she was bad for Jesse or whatever, is only something he could tell himself to sleep better at night (and that's ignoring the fact that Jesse was the one in the relationship who first fell off the wagon and stared using again)

We have no way of looking in Walt's head, but those are all assumptions that the scene doesn't support. Walt *was* going to let them leave before deciding that he needed to help Jesse and was in the room, even though it was something of a lost cause, for no other reason than to do that. There's nothing in the scene that suggests fear of blackmail was the driving force behind his inaction. Walt's a dark motherfucker but time and time again he's proven that he really does care about Jesse.

Looking forward to chewing on the show in episode installments. Catching up on the show over a few weeks was a hell of a thing.

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Originally Posted by Evi 

We have no way of looking in Walt's head, but those are all assumptions that the scene doesn't support. Walt *was* going to let them leave before deciding that he needed to help Jesse and was in the room, even though it was something of a lost cause, for no other reason than to do that. There's nothing in the scene that suggests fear of blackmail was the driving force behind his inaction. Walt's a dark motherfucker but time and time again he's proven that he really does care about Jesse.

Maybe I need to watch the scene again, but I never got the impression that he was doing it all for Jesse's sake. He had the opportunity to solve a multitude of problems, that would complicate his life immensley, and he took it. I saw it as being incredibly selfish, and not self-sacrificing in the least.
 

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Originally Posted by Disciple_72 

 

As far as I'm concerned, letting Jesse's girlfriend die was the point of no return for Walt. And yes, Cranston's conflict in that scene is awesome (perfect example of why he truly deserves all those awards). You can actually see Walt's humanity leave him in that moment, and it hurts.

 

I don't care if the girlfriend was a bit of a bitch sometimes, or if Gale was kind of a nice guy. In the end she was innocent (a user), he was not (a maker). Ordering Gale's death only matters because it shows that push come to shove, Walt is willing to send Jesse down the same path. Walt really can't go much lower now, he can just become more cunning and powerful in his career as meth king. The tragedy of the show now is about who else Walt is going to drag down with him.

 

^^definitely, the point of no return. Exactly how I thought of it.

However ordering Gale's death does show that he is willing to kill someone who is not directly causing problems for him and that he even somewhat likes. After Jane and Gale, whose to say he won't be killing completely innocent bystanders/civilians who are just in the wrong place and the wrong time soon? Not that far off, i think.

Yes, Walt is clearly a ruinner of lives.
 

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Originally Posted by Evi 

We have no way of looking in Walt's head, but those are all assumptions that the scene doesn't support. Walt *was* going to let them leave before deciding that he needed to help Jesse and was in the room, even though it was something of a lost cause, for no other reason than to do that. There's nothing in the scene that suggests fear of blackmail was the driving force behind his inaction. Walt's a dark motherfucker but time and time again he's proven that he really does care about Jesse.

What isn't supported by the scene or the series, is the idea that Walt would allow Jesse's innocent girlfriend to choke to death on her own vomit on the off chance it might help Jesse kick his habit. Walt has got blood on his hands but he's not a psycho. However, there is plenty of evidence that Walt can and will do shocking, monstrous things to protect himself and his operation. Fear of blackmail or not, Jane knew about everything, so it was Walt who really benefited from her death. Remember, all this was right after Walt missed the birth of his own daughter so that he could close a deal that would make him rich.

The reading that Walt did it for Jesse robs the show of a ton of dramatic weight. Yeah, to feel better about it he might tell himself that she was just Jesse's enabler and it's better this way (not really a stretch, after his classic Wayfarer 515 rationalization- "casualty wise, it's just the fiftieth worst air disaster"). But that's not the truth, and he's not a stupid man.

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Originally Posted by Disciple_72 

 

The reading that Walt did it for Jesse robs the show of a ton of dramatic weight. Yeah, to feel better about it he might tell himself that she was just Jesse's enabler and it's better this way (not really a stretch, after his classic Wayfarer 515 rationalization- "casualty wise, it's just the fiftieth worst air disaster"). But that's not the truth, and he's not a stupid man.

I think it's at least a half-truth, and I think that gray area is what makes the show so compelling. Rather than robbing the story of dramatic weight, I see it as adding to it, coloring it in a way that makes it more interesting to examine and discuss. And I think it's to Cranston's credit that he invites all these different reads due to the power of his performance and expression in that scene. 

Walt saw Jane as a huge problem. She was black-mailing him, alienating him from his partner, and accelerating his partner's demise. The irony in that it was Donald's words to not give up on family that caused Walt to go back to Jesse's house and ostensibly try to rescue him. This action triggered Jane's choking which Walt decided not to prevent. And this has haunted Walt ever since, as he admits in 'Fly'. He wishes he had died in that moment before leaving his home, going to the bar, and going to Jesse's. 

But the important thing to note is that he did not go over there to kill Jane. And he clearly did not go over there to rescue her either, just Jesse. And somehow the universe created a scenario in which Walt felt the right outcome in that moment was to let this girl die, for many different reasons, and it cost him his soul. Gilligan has admitted that his initial idea was to have Walt shoot Jane up with more heroin and cause her overdose; luckily the writers talked him back from that one. THAT would have robbed the scene of dramatic weight. 

I also think its interesting (and a brilliant story point) that Walt pretty much ruined the sweet 15 million dollar deal he made for himself in order to save Jesse. As black as his soul gets, he still cares for Jesse and doesn't want to see him come to harm. 

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Originally Posted by BlackyShimSham 
I think it's at least a half-truth, and I think that gray area is what makes the show so compelling.

You know, having just watched the scene again I'd say you're probably closer to the truth than anyone here. And Walt making Jane OD would have been terrible, thank God for whoever shot that idea down.

And does Walt really care for Jesse, or is it more a guilt thing where some part of him realizes that he's a terrible fucking influence on this kid and has helped ruin his life?

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Originally Posted by Disciple_72 

What isn't supported by the scene or the series, is the idea that Walt would allow Jesse's innocent girlfriend to choke to death on her own vomit on the off chance it might help Jesse kick his habit. Walt has got blood on his hands but he's not a psycho. However, there is plenty of evidence that Walt can and will do shocking, monstrous things to protect himself and his operation. Fear of blackmail or not, Jane knew about everything, so it was Walt who really benefited from her death. Remember, all this was right after Walt missed the birth of his own daughter so that he could close a deal that would make him rich.

 

I would agree with you on this one.  Walt has proven time and time again that he is willing to do anything protect himself, his family and his operation.   Jane simply knew everything and was a huge liability.  There was no guarantee that she would come back and demand more money.  To say that Walt did it for Jesse simply doesn't add up.  If anything, I think Walt knew that Jesse would end up blaming Jane's death entirely on himself, which crushes Walt and the more because he can't tell him his responsibility for her death.  

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Originally Posted by Disciple_72 

 

You know, having just watched the scene again I'd say you're probably closer to the truth than anyone here. And Walt making Jane OD would have been terrible, thank God for whoever shot that idea down.

 

And does Walt really care for Jesse, or is it more a guilt thing where some part of him realizes that he's a terrible fucking influence on this kid and has helped ruin his life?

I would say you guys are both right.  And that's what makes it so great and complex.  Walt's willingness to let an 'innocent' person die from an overdose to protect himself is followed through in a greater extent in Season 3 when in the end he is willing to order the murder of an 'innocent' man in order protect himself and Jesse.

Walt's progression over the last 3 seasons has been fascinating, he's gone from mild mannered teacher to meth dealer and every step of the way he's learning something about himself, there's a kind of duality to Walt (the same kind that applies to Batman), there are two opposing forces residing within him and it it's tough to know which one is the real Walt. The show really seems to be exploring the 'You either die a hero or live long enough to become a villain' idea, seeing as Walt has now survived Cancer, he no longer has the luxury of justifying his decisions on the basis that he needs to take care of his family before he dies, so every step is now one of self-interest.

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Originally Posted by Disciple_72 

 

And does Walt really care for Jesse, or is it more a guilt thing where some part of him realizes that he's a terrible fucking influence on this kid and has helped ruin his life?

There's definitely some guilt there, but after watching the end of Half Measures, I'm not sure how anyone could question whether Walt cares about Jesse. He put himself in great danger by doing what he did.

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Originally Posted by Evi 

 

There's definitely some guilt there, but after watching the end of Half Measures, I'm not sure how anyone could question whether Walt cares about Jesse. He put himself in great danger by doing what he did.

I'm not entirely certain that he did what he did for Jesse- remember, he had just watched a news report

Granted, there may have been some concern for Jesse, but I don't buy that it was entirely about Jesse- Walts' a new father again at this point, that had to also be about showing him retaining some of his humanity and outrage.
 

Walt couldn't get a hold of Jesse, then saw the news report and bolted out of the room, the implication being that he knew Jesse was about to do something stupid. If it was outrage, the Walter White we know would've thought about it and devised a plan, not rushed out of the house and hit the guys with his car.

Vince Gilligan on audience perception of Walter...

Also cast interviews at the premiere...

http://www.movieweb.com/news/exclusive-breaking-bad-season-4-premiere-cast-interviews

Can't fucking wait.

It's so odd to see Giancarlo Esposito so animated, laughing and smiling.

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/06/26/breaking-bad-the-finest-hour-on-television.html

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Originally Posted by Joseph P. Brenner 

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/06/26/breaking-bad-the-finest-hour-on-television.html

Awesome article, thanks. Here's another excellent retrospective of the series from the New York Times:

(some mild SPOILERS perhaps for S4) 

The Dark Art of Breaking Bad

Just brilliant stuff. I honestly cannot wait for this. I. Can't. Wait. 

edit to add kewl graphic 

I am just now up to the third episode in season 2, and, of course, kicking myself for being so late to the party. I'll be finishing 2 over the weekend and I'll pick up 3 on Amazon Instant to watch during the week before the premiere of 4.

I don't have the vocabulary to do this show justice.

I just went through the same thing myself, Singer.  It's so damn good that it's actually a little scary.

So what happens in Season Four? I love not having any idea. It wouldn't surprise me if Fring is out of the picture before the halfway point.

Personally, the biggest question for me is whether this show is going to end like Scarface or the Shield. Personally, I kind of hope Scarface.

I think it'll end with Walt as a completely broken man.

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Originally Posted by Joseph P. Brenner 

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/06/26/breaking-bad-the-finest-hour-on-television.html

That's a must read. The first paragraph gave me chills. 

Seriously.

I wonder to what degree "redemption" will enter into the picture in the final episodes. I know that sounds kind of lame, and I'm not saying that this show is going anywhere happy, but "Walt continues to be a bigger and bigger bastard", as entertaining as it is to watch, doesn't provide an obvious climax to the series. All he's got left is to cross the final line into becoming a cold-blooded monster and for the show to go full Shakespeare with the ending. I actually think it would be more interesting if, in the home stretch, Walt finally faces up to what he's unleashed and makes some desperate and probably doomed ploy to avert the looming catastrophe (probably in the form of attempting to save either Jesse or his family). THEN things go full Shakespeare.

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Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd 

So what happens in Season Four? I love not having any idea. It wouldn't surprise me if Fring is out of the picture before the halfway point.

 

Personally, the biggest question for me is whether this show is going to end like Scarface or the Shield. Personally, I kind of hope Scarface.

I hope its not the Shield, in that I want Walt to either complete get away with it or complete be destoryed.  I don't want some middle ground where "Walt you basicly got away with being a drug peddler, except now you have to teach junor high school science for 3 years as punishment."

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Originally Posted by The Prankster 

I wonder to what degree "redemption" will enter into the picture in the final episodes. I know that sounds kind of lame, and I'm not saying that this show is going anywhere happy, but "Walt continues to be a bigger and bigger bastard", as entertaining as it is to watch, doesn't provide an obvious climax to the series. All he's got left is to cross the final line into becoming a cold-blooded monster and for the show to go full Shakespeare with the ending. I actually think it would be more interesting if, in the home stretch, Walt finally faces up to what he's unleashed and makes some desperate and probably doomed ploy to avert the looming catastrophe (probably in the form of attempting to save either Jesse or his family). THEN things go full Shakespeare.

I think its going to come down to this... Walt started this journey to help his family, and as he becomes more of a criminal his actions will begin destroying his family.  At some point, Hank, Skylar, and Walt's Children will be affected by his decisions, and he's going to have to choose between destroying his family, or sacrificing himself on some level to save the people he loves.  I don't think this will happen for a while, but it seems to be what the show is building towards as Skylar is being pulled into his illegal lifestyle and Hank keeps picking up on clues of Walter's activities.

And i think in the end, Walt will probably be redeemed, but Jesse will be the real tragic figure.
 

When I say an ending like The Shield, I don't really mean in the specifics. I just mean will it be about the force of moral judgment hammering down and demolishing Walt, whether he's in prison or not. Probably in regards to how fucked up Jesse and his family are by the end. I could certainly see them doing it. A Scarface ending, on the other hand, would be all about some kind of romantic notion of the blaze of glory, and frankly, I think I'd kind of love something like that in this instance. Maybe because, as with Tony Soprano, I've never stopped liking Walt.

However, if I had to guess, the main thing I expect the endgame to involve will be transformation. It's bee the number one thematic idea behind everything so far, charting the science teacher to drug kingpin trajectory, so I anticipate a juxtaposition of Old Walt and New Walt to be the central idea, whatever that may entail. That may rule out redemption.

The thing about Scarface is that there's an element of redemption there--the guns blazing finale gets triggered because he finally draws a moral line in the sand, not because he goes too far. At this point, I feel like Walt's actions have set far too much into motion for him to back away from (rewatching the pilot the other night, I was amazed at how many plot threads get started in it) so even if he found Jesus in the S4 premiere he could spend the entire rest of the series trying to clean up his mess and still probably fail. I think all that's left for him is to maybe save his son's life (if Skylar's not doomed, and probably bound for corruption into the bargain, I'll eat my hat, and his brother-in-law doesn't seem to have a long life ahead of him either). Whether he succeeds or fails, I think that's going to be a plot point in the final episodes; no matter how dark he gets, keeping his family safe and together (even if only in appearance) has been crucial to him.

Yes, it would be amazingly dark to watch him sacrifice his family to his supervillainy--hell, I'd go for an ending where Walt survives as a drug kingpin, having gotten everyone he loves murdered--but I'm not sure how you can actually craft a run of episodes leading up to that, especially with the emphasis on suspense this show has. Once Walt goes completely over to the dark side, nothing's at stake anymore.

Anyway, redemption's about change too, isn't it? Just in the opposite direction.

My concern is that when Hank learns Heisenberg's real identity, he will be unable to actually bring him in without destroying his career, because it was under his nose for so long and especially since his medical bills started getting paid for by meth money.  He'd have a vested interest in keeping Walt out of jail, and having an agent in his pocket would have obvious benefits to the Heisenpire.  After Hank showed such ethical backbone in facing the Jesse situation last year, I might be even more pissed at Walt if he made him break bad than if he actually got him killed.

Yeah, Hank being coerced into becoming Walt's mole on the force makes a lot of sense. It lets the character evolve and do new things instead of just being the bungling dope who hasn't noticed his own brother-in-law is a kingpin. Plus, I kind of like the way Walt grows stronger as Hank grows weaker over the run of the show. Like he's a machismo vampire or something.

Less than a week to go....

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Originally Posted by The Prankster 

Yeah, Hank being coerced into becoming Walt's mole on the force makes a lot of sense. It lets the character evolve and do new things instead of just being the bungling dope who hasn't noticed his own brother-in-law is a kingpin. Plus, I kind of like the way Walt grows stronger as Hank grows weaker over the run of the show. Like he's a machismo vampire or something.

Bungling dope?  Are we watching the same show?

First of all, Walt isn't a kingpin.  Yet.  Secondly, Hank has had quite a bit going on in his personal life and Walt did a pretty good job (for a while) of separating his family from the business he'd gotten into.  Hank was shown as nothing but competent many times, though, and is definitely the current moral center of the show.

I can see Jesse turning himself in and exposing Gus's whole operation in exchange for witness protection. And if Hank and co. ask him hey, who was Heisenberg? Why he was that poor Gale fellow who currently has a hole in his head. 

I'm actually really interested in how Hank's story will play this season.  By the end of the show last year, he was just about done being a DEA agent and it didn't look like his rehab was going great.  He might never walk again.  I think the writer's will find a way to bring him back into his investigation but how?  Perhaps that might be what gives him to motivation to recover (his investigation) but just didn't want to hear about it after he had just been attacked.

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Originally Posted by Syd 

I can see Jesse turning himself in and exposing Gus's whole operation in exchange for witness protection. And if Hank and co. ask him hey, who was Heisenberg? Why he was that poor Gale fellow who currently has a hole in his head. 

They kind of raised this possibility and dismissed it in last year's finale.   It's also a bit linear for this show, so I don't see them going back to it. 

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Originally Posted by The Prankster 

Yeah, Hank being coerced into becoming Walt's mole on the force makes a lot of sense. It lets the character evolve and do new things instead of just being the bungling dope who hasn't noticed his own brother-in-law is a kingpin. Plus, I kind of like the way Walt grows stronger as Hank grows weaker over the run of the show. Like he's a machismo vampire or something.

Hank's far from a dope.  He's proven himself to be a really competent lawman.  I mean, you never suspect that your own family member could be dealing meth, and they did explain that Walt was acting weird because of Cancer, but he was also making money from playing poker and that website his kid set up.  If your family tells you this stuff, why wouldn't you believe them?  But he's come within an inch of catching Walt and Jesse numerous times.  And when he got promoted, he was effectively taken away from Walt's trail for a fairly decent amount of time.

I seriously doubt Hank would ever allow himself to become a mole, even for Walt.  Just the end of last season where he refused to lie about assaulting Jesse because he knew he'd done something wrong and was willing to take the consequences of it show what kind of a man he is.

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Originally Posted by A-Pathetic 

 

 

Hank was shown as nothing but competent many times, though, and is definitely the current moral center of the show.

And I really think he's gonna stay that way for the rest of the series. Maybe he'll be tempted (cause that would make good drama), but there has to be a contrast to all the corruption. Dean Norris has really upped his game since the first season. He completely fills this role.

Anyhow...

Breaking Bad has really stolen this song Layla/Goodfellas style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8x-uQ_wNR0&feature=share

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon West will kill Again 

I seriously doubt Hank would ever allow himself to become a mole, even for Walt.

 

Yeah, I doubt it too. This show doesn't need a low rent Vic Mackey. God knows where this show will go of course, but I can picture Hank finding out the truth only at the very end, just sitting there with his jaw on the floor.

Dunno about Jesse turning himself in, but I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in future we see Saul giving himself up and blabbing in exchange for immunity/protection.
 

I'm currently in a frantic race to get through the DVDs before the fourth season starts. This show is throwing some pretty fucking strong gut punches.