FRANCHISE ME: PHANTASM II

Perfectly said. Well-done!

Franchise Me is the best regular column on the site.  Great work Joshua, keep them coming.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudgeSmails 

Franchise Me is the best regular column on the site.  Great work Joshua, keep them coming.  

Seconded. I love these.

Like I said in the first thread, I can't believe what Coscarelli managed to accomplish with Reggie, and how quickly he did it too. By the end of the prologue my opinion of Reggie just did a complete 180. He went from being some bald douche, to being a total badass in a manner of minutes and it worked! Comparing Reggie to Ash is pretty apt, but I would definitely put money on Reggie being the better/more interesting hero. Plus I think Phantasm is a far greater series than the Evil Dead films (as time goes on, Evil Dead 2 is the only movie I still love of that trilogy.)

I also have to agree that James Legros is a better Mike. Michael A Baldwin is fine in the first one because Mike is just a kid, and I kind of dig him in IV, but he's pretty terrible in III. 

I always kind of felt like the love interest was a little shoehorned into this one, however it works, and it helps to build the mythology of the Tall Man. The thing I like the most about this series is how insurmountable a villain the Tall Man is, if you kill him he just comes back, and with every movie his influence just grows and grows. Plus we never really know what he wants. Yeah he wants to turn the dead into slaves, but what for? What is his goal? I think the fact that we never truly understand what the Tall Man is after is what makes him such a great villain. 

I'm not sure if I'm right, but I always saw Alchemy as being the Tall Man all along, which I like because it kind of continues the Tall Man's penchant for turning into babes and fucking gross dudes. Not only is the Tall Man going to steal your soul and turn you into a jawa, but he'll have sex with you first!

Weirdest thing for me watching it was how much Supernatural seemed to pull from its structure.

Not just that it's sorta a road movie with two blue-collar guys going hunting the supernatural/alien on the backroads and small towns of America, but it even gives the younger one kinda vague psychic powers that don't prevent somebody from getting blown up/set on fire.  And the older one is rather horny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoMoreMrNiceGaius 

I'm not sure if I'm right, but I always saw Alchemy as being the Tall Man all along, which I like because it kind of continues the Tall Man's penchant for turning into babes and fucking gross dudes. Not only is the Tall Man going to steal your soul and turn you into a jawa, but he'll have sex with you first!

Definitely an easy interpretation to make. Though with this series, I find it hard to draw concrete conclusions on anything. There isn't a lot of consistency with some of these things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Miller 

Definitely an easy interpretation to make. Though with this series, I find it hard to draw concrete conclusions on anything. There isn't a lot of consistency with some of these things.

True, which is part of what makes me love it so much. The ambiguity in its mythology always kind of excited me, because I feel like its easy to take elements and logically fill in the gaps, but it may be totally different from what Coscarelli intended or what other viewers think. I know I have some theories I'll bring up when we get to IV that I think make sense to me, but could be totally different from what everyone else things. I find Phantasm to be pretty unique in this, and the only other work I find that operates the same way is Twin Peaks. Actually I feel like there's a lot of similarities  between the two franchises. 

"You play a good game, boy!"

A bit of history on this project for those who aren't aware.....

- Universal told Coscarelli he could only keep two of his three leads (Angus Scrimm, Reggie Bannister, A. Michael Baldwin) and had to recast the other.

- Universal also forced Don to include a love interest.

- When the mortician is cleaning the crematorium, the name on the bag that he is dumping the ashes into is "Sam Raimi".

Anyway, I love the hell out of this film.  Since I love the entire series, I am a bit partial to Baldwin.  That said, LeGros is definitely the better actor and he rocked in the role.  I hope that if Phantasm V gets made (it'd better be!) that Don finds a new role for James LeGros.  I'd love to see him return to the series in some fashion.

Also, I love that someone else has picked up on the strong influence that this film has had on Supernatural.

On another note, I wanted to share something I have always felt was a missed opportunity in the first film.  Remember Mike's lunar mural on his bedroom wall?  I've long had the desire to have a scene where Mike is sitting in bed, staring at the mural, and see's the Tall Man far off in the distance within the mural.....................slowly doing his trademark stride towards Mike and get larger with every step.  Yes, I realize this visual would have been impossible with the budget (or lack thereof) that Don Coscarelli had on the first film........................but it hasn't stopped me from literally dreaming about it from time to time.  Anyway, I figured you all would appreciate that.

Honestly, if Coscarelli set up a donation system online to fund the fifth film, I bet you anything he would get every penny that he needed to make it.  I know I'd donate whatever I could, whenever I could to the cause!  Scott Glosserman is doing this for the next Leslie Vernon film.  Think about it, Don!

I've always maintained to my friends that if I were to somehow strike rich and inherit a billion dollars, the first thing I would do is give 100 million to Coscarelli to make Phantasm V. I would have no intention of making that money back, I just want to see a Phantasm film with a 100 million dollar budget and no creative restrictions. One can dream right? 

Even if Phantasm V never happens, I think IV is pretty great cap to the series. 

I am not envious of the person who is REQUIRED to summarize the plots of these wonderful, batshit movies. But you do a splendid job.

My favorite of the series, possibly because it has the most straight forward plot. Best action, best gadgets, best Mike.

I'm not a fan of the voiceovers at the beginning, flashbacks to Dune there, but it helped catch up audiences at the time.

I agree on the post-apocalyptic feel. By the third film it definitely feels like there's no infrastructure left in the U.S., and it would have been nice if the second film could have explored that.

Wasn't Tarantino involved with the never-made fifth film?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven 

 

Wasn't Tarantino involved with the never-made fifth film?

Roger Avery, I believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoMoreMrNiceGaius 

Even if Phantasm V never happens, I think IV is pretty great cap to the series. 

My problem with IV as a capper (which I'll elaborate on soon enough) is that it is such a tease of amazing things to come -- like if the Harry Potter series had just ended with HP7 Part 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Miller 

My problem with IV as a capper (which I'll elaborate on soon enough) is that it is such a tease of amazing things to come -- like if the Harry Potter series had just ended with HP7 Part 1.

 

Very true. I've always been of two minds with IV, one is that I immediately want to see the fifth installment, and the other is that it succeeds as an ending better than a fifth film ever could because it leaves things with enough closure to work as an ending but with just enough ambiguity to leave you wanting more, but in a good way. I have a lot to say about that one, but I kind of want to wait until you get to it before I start really discussing it. Don't want to step on your toes or anything. 
 

IV was supposed to be a "keep people interested in Phantasm" type film. When Coscarelli couldn't get the funding for Phantasm's End (Avary's script), he went and did IV, which was supposed to be the lead in Phantasm's End, which REALLY needs to be made. It's an epic script.

I agree on James LeGros. He was certainly the better Mike, and he should have done III and IV. He's a lot more well known than A. Michael Baldwin. Wouldn't doubt it if he has some clout. Probably would have helped out Coscarelli with the suits in III and IV.

And here I always thought James LeGros was pretty bad in it. And it wasn't a question of preferring A. Michael Baldwin in it either cause I saw 2 multiple times long before I saw any of the other Phantasms. Worst moment: the psychic "This is great!" conversation.

I'm still pretty intrigued by the fact that Coscarelli passed on a young Brad Pitt for James LeGros. Would Pitt's rising career in the nineties have provided a new interest in Phantasm that might have gotten Phantasm's End made? Probably not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoMoreMrNiceGaius 

I've always maintained to my friends that if I were to somehow strike rich and inherit a billion dollars, the first thing I would do is give 100 million to Coscarelli to make Phantasm V. I would have no intention of making that money back, I just want to see a Phantasm film with a 100 million dollar budget and no creative restrictions. One can dream right? 

 

Even if Phantasm V never happens, I think IV is pretty great cap to the series. 

You aren't the only one with that though.  I have always said that if I won the lottery big time I would do the following....

1 - Buy a house.  Nothing massive, only what I needed.

2 - Buy two new cars.  Again, nothing ridiculous, only what I need.

3 - Pay for Phantasm V (and VI, if he wants to go that far).

4 - Put the rest in the bank and live off of the interest.

I'm dead serious about that.  I would literally get Coscarelli on the phone and ask him how much he needed to end the series the way he wants.  I wouldn't want any creative input.  All that I would ask for is to be allowed to chill out on set from time to time (out of everyone's way), go to the premiere, and maybe keep a couple of props.  I couldn't give two shits if I got any money back out of it either.  The film(s) getting made would be more than enough of a return payment.

One person I have a massive amount of respect for right now is Megan Ellison, who is using her wealth to fund films by directors that she likes (PT Anderson, Coen Bros, Kathryn Bigelow, Spike Jonze, Charlie Kaufman, John Hillcoat, The Terminator franchise, etc.).  That is EXACTLY what I would do if I had that kind of money.  I'd make sure that my favs got to make their passion projects if no one else would pay for them.  That and help out franchises I love that can't get new entries made.

Anyway, Phantasm's End has had an interesting history.  Roger Avary wrote that script on spec after he hit the bigtime with Pulp Fiction, hoping he could help one of his favorite franchises out.  Don loved it, but they couldn't get anyone to make it.  Avary had even written a role into it specifically for Bruce Campbell!  I know the basic plot had to do with it being a decade into the future where The Tall Man's forces controlled 75% or more of the United States, with a giant wall erected to keep the infestation out of what was left of the country (basically just the East coast).  Reggie and a team of commandos end up crossing the wall in order to take The Tall Man down and hopefully rescue Mike in the process.  Naturally, it was full of all the franchise trademark weirdness and reality-bending moments.  I can't remember what the estimated pricetag was, but no one wanted to shell out that much money for a sequel to a franchise that no one had really paid attention to in about a decade.

About five years or so ago, there came a point when a studio (who was never named) approached Don with the intention of remaking Phantasm.  Coscarelli apparently seriously considered it and the rumor at the time was that it would be a trilogy.  The first film would have been an amalgamation of the original films, the second would be Phantasm's End, and the third a series capper.  That way audiences could enter the franchise not knowing jack shit and fans would still technically get two sequels to the original series.  Anyway, it never happened.  My guess is that Coscarelli wanted creative control over the whole thing and that was probably a dealbreaker.  I'd say it was a good call on his part.

I think he has given up on Phantasm's End at this point.  I know the current script to Phantasm V is his own creation, though he has never really stated whether or not it is intended to be the final film in the series.  I suspect it is though.  From time to time it is rumored that Anchor Bay might be willing to foot the bill for the sequel, but nothing has seemed to come of that either.  All we can really do is hope that John Dies At The End gets enough attention and makes enough money in whatever limited theatrical and home video releases it gets so that Don can get funding for Phantasm V.  As far as I know, he's still pretty gung-ho about making it and the cast has even done a few script readings with him.  I just hope it gets made sometime in the near future.

BTW, what do you think is more likely?  Coscarelli using that 100 million dollars to create the be all, end all Phantasm sequel?  Or Don using all that money to make Phantasm V, Phantasm VI, Bubba Nosferatu, Bubba Sasquatch, and another original project or two?  I could easily see him using that kind of money to fund the entire rest of his career if he were allowed to.

Noticed this. Made me chuckle. Is it a respectful poke, tribute (due to the flick's ED vibe), or rivalry/grudge/challenge?

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken 

- When the mortician is cleaning the crematorium, the name on the bag that he is dumping the ashes into is "Sam Raimi".

I suspect it was a loving tribute.  That said, it would have been fun for Raimi to start up a "visual feud" with Coscarelli like he had with Wes Craven back in the day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shreds 
I'm still pretty intrigued by the fact that Coscarelli passed on a young Brad Pitt for James LeGros. Would Pitt's rising career in the nineties have provided a new interest in Phantasm that might have gotten Phantasm's End made? Probably not.

Doubtful.  Barring Pitt miraculously causing Phantasm II to make megabucks at the box office, Coscarelli would have just brought A. Michael Baldwin back in the third one anyway.  The only difference is that we would be talking about Pitt in the same reference as we are LeGros.  Baldwin stated awhile back at a convention that one of the drafts of the current Phantasm V script (written by Coscarelli and Stephen Romano) has/had a cameo slot for James LeGros.  I believe it involved Mike & Reggie entering a parallel dimension at one point and coming across the LeGros version of Mike (in the clutches of the Tall Man perhaps?).  I guess it would be another confoundingly weird way of mucking with the continuity of the franchise.  Baldwin didn't seem to think that LeGros would go for it if and when it comes time to make Phantasm V.  Scrimm and Bannister disagreed, stating that LeGros still apparently looks fondly on Phantasm II and would probably return if given the chance.   Anyway...

Here's another interesting bit of trivia:  Phantasm II was Brad Pitt's very first audition in Hollywood!
 

Just saw this. Loved it.

I think James LeGros plays a better Mike here. Chainsaw fights. Upgraded Balls. Reggie making out with Alchemy.

A pity about Liz though. I wouldn't have minded seeing her in the other installments.

First viewing?  If so, I'm curious to see your response to the other two entries.