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Rob Roy (1995)

post #1 of 12
6/30/11 at 6:09am
Thread Starter 

I hate Braveheart with an insane passion, loathe the movie and everything it stands for. Part of that is because the nationalism on show in the film always creeped me out a bit and part of it is because it managed to eclipse this absolute gem of a film.

 

It's a move that is consistently in my top 50, an all time favourite and part of that is because there's a sense of verisimilitude to it. It's not a particulalry accurate film, it's depiction of Scottish/English relations at the time is a little off, but it feels real and lived in. It feels grimy and it feels real, in a way that Braveheart never did to me. In a lot of ways the film reminds me more of Last of the Mohicans than Braveheart, using fairly grounded methods to tell a fairly lyrical story.

 

The cast in this are great, everyone does amazing work. Tim Roth, Brian Cox, Liam Neeson and Jessica Lange in particular all do amazing work. I think Roth delivers one of the great movie villains in this film, his Cunningham an odious, loathable, hateful little bastard who nevertheless is oddly magnetic as the main antagonist. He's got this peculiar brand of non-chalant evil, where he seems to exhibit practically no effort or thought when doing truly loathable things. Neeson manages to bring warmth and humanity to a character who could be paper-thin. He's a man who prides his honour above all else and effectively plunges his clan deep into hell to protect that honour, but he makes Roy sympathetic and likeable even as the consequences of his actions are fully felt. Lange, despite a slipping accent, is just fantastic as Mary McGregor. She's got great chemistry with Neeson and a steely determination which makes some of her scenes the standout pieces of the film.

 

The final fight is what Rob Roy is perhaps most famous for and it is truly magnificent, nice long shots allowing you to see the full extent of William Hobbs brilliant choreography. It's a swordfight unlike anything else in cinema, with a naturalistic ebb and flow and a toll taking on both characters just by swinging the swords. It's a great technical feat. lent real emotional power by the work of Roth and Neeson.

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post #2 of 12
6/30/11 at 7:26pm

 

Aaaaah what a fantastic movie...

 

"Do you know how fine you are to me Mary MacGregor?"

"And you to me."
 
"Think of yourself a scabbard, Mistress McGregor, and I the sword. And a fine fit you were, too."
"I will think on you dead, until my husband makes you so. And then I will think on you no more."
 
"Did you boys know there's going to be a new addition to the family? "
"Is it inside you?"
"Yes." 
"How does it get out?"
"Same road it got in." 
 
"Father, will the MacGregor’s ever be kings again?"
"All men with honor are kings - but not all kings have honor."
"What is honor?"
"Honor is.. what no man can give ye, and no one can take away. Honor is a man’s gift to himself."
"Do women have it?"
"Women are the heart of honor - and we cherish and protect it in them. You must never mistreat a woman, or malign a man. Or stand by and see another do so."
"How do you know if you have it?"
"Never worry in the getting of it. It grows in ye and speaks to ye. All you need to do is listen."

 

215px-Rob_roy_poster.jpg

 

Nice to see us on the same page for a change Spike.

 

I just adore this film. Yes it's aged a helluva lot better than Braveheart, (which just comes across as rudimentary bombastic nonsense these days) and much of that has to do with a script that grounds the lyrical in the historical realities of the hardships the higlanders went through to hang onto what little land and cultural identity they had in the face of both english and scottish nobility that held all the power in the region. It manages to set this scene beautifully while still peppering the story some fantastic moments of dialogue as well as deftly balancing some truly dark moments without letting them sink the film.

 

The cast really is supurlative. I'm neck and neck on this or Michael Collins being my favorite Neeson performance, but Spike sums up nicely what works, with Neeson remaining a likeable if honour-bound and stubborn protagonist. Jessica Lange gives what may be her finest performance as well (which is saying something), her Mary MacGregor is such a powerhouse, such a magnetic force of nature that you truly believe she'd be about the only person Neesons Rob would ever defer to. Their chemistry elevates this romance to become the films beating heart.

 

Rob_Roy__1__21881t.jpg

 

As for our villains, what an embarrassment of riches this film offers. Yes Roth may be one of the slimiest little sociopaths to be seen in a period film, but lets not forget his lecherous scheming lackey, played by the wonderful Brian Cox (this is the film that first made me a fan actually), or his high born monstrously snobbish benefactor played by John Hurt. What a trifecta of evil they make in this.

 

04_robroy.jpg

 

That's not even touching on some of the other curious little performances scattered throughout the film like Eric Stoltz or Jason Flemyng.

 

Carter Burwell beautiful score is an absolute celtic cracker as well.

 

Then of course there's the sword fight. There's no getting around it, it's just about one of the most realistic looking, brutal, visceral duels I've seen put to film frankly. Like the very best action sequences throughout the history of movies, I find it just as riveting and thrilling to watch today as I did the first time I saw in in a cinema back in '95.

 

robroyttimage.jpg

 

All in all a seriously under-rated little gem of a movie


Edited by The Rain Dog - 6/30/11 at 10:09pm
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post #3 of 12
6/30/11 at 9:59pm

I know this probably isn't the right thread to stick up for Braveheart, but I'll try to speak up for its virtues. In terms of the historical accuracy bit, Randall Wallace (the screenwriter) never purported the film to be accurate to the actual historical events of the time, but instead took inspiration from a fifteenth century epic poem and general folklore. The point was to portray him as a bigger than life hero in the manner of old Hollywood epics, like Ben-Hur and Spartacus (obviously a huge influence). I don't know, maybe my love of its bombastic nature or the nostalgia I might be harboring (this was the first R-rated feature my parents allowed me to watch), but I still love it. I will say that John Toll's cinematography and Horner's score are stupendous still to this day. Anyways, I haven't seen Rob Roy before, and this thread has put it on my radar.

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post #4 of 12
6/30/11 at 10:08pm

double post apologies

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post #5 of 12
6/30/11 at 11:32pm

I like Rob Roy and Braveheart, for the reasons stated by everyone else. I don't really want to pick between them, because I think they're both pretty successful doing exactly what they're trying to do. 

 

I wish someone would do another good historical epic. It's been a good while since there was a decent one (Kingdom of Heaven?) I still wish the Rock had gotten to make his Kamehameha movie. Or even Vin Diesel's Hannibal movie. All we've had of late was fucking Robin Hood.

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post #6 of 12
7/1/11 at 12:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post

I like Rob Roy and Braveheart, for the reasons stated by everyone else. I don't really want to pick between them, because I think they're both pretty successful doing exactly what they're trying to do. 

 

See I used to think this as well until I recently rewatched both movies. Rob Roy still gripped and thrilled me from beginning to end while I lasted about 20 minutes of Braveheart - it was just so incredibly clunky with all the nuance and subtlety of an over excited twelve year old with violence issues. That's Mels style I guess, to beat you round the head and neck with his films, but it's amazing what left me so moved to tears and swelled my heart fifteen years ago (when I must have watched Braveheart 50 times) had me feeling kind of ill at the cheesy awfulness of it all this time around - and thats without going near the historical problems the film proudly flaunts that so many take issue with.

 

I adore my historical epics as well (and yes the last real one was probably Kingdom Of Heaven - the DC that is) but Braveheart just isn't a particularly good one. Oh its flashy and violent and Mel shoots the fuck out of the Scottish highlands while James Horners music swells the celtic cockles, but its all sort of in your face and a little simple really. Randall Wallace may have looked to it for structural inspiration, but I'll watch Spartacus a hundred more times before I bother trying Braveheart again.

 

Rob Roy on the other hand - unappreciated classic!

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post #7 of 12
7/1/11 at 5:16am

Hmm, I could totally see that being the case. I just bought the LOTR Blu, so I expect the likelihood of that rewatch might be slim for a while, but now I'm curious to see how they stack up. And it's true I have a whole lot less faith in Braveheart measuring up.

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post #8 of 12
7/1/11 at 7:04pm

Having done the 12 hour extended epic marathon at least three times since all the dvds were released and I personally don't think they've aged in the slightest.

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post #9 of 12
7/1/11 at 11:49pm

Oh, trust me, I got nothing but faith in LOTR. I've enjoyed them thoroughly every single time I've revisited, which is usually about every 18 months or so. It's been a bit longer now, because I was waiting for the Blu, so I'm keyed up to dig in once I get some time in front of me. 

 

I was referring to the Scottish epics of 95, both of which I haven't seen in ten years or so. I sure loved them back in the day though. 

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post #10 of 12
7/1/11 at 11:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Park Chan-wookie View Post

I know this probably isn't the right thread to stick up for Braveheart, but I'll try to speak up for its virtues. In terms of the historical accuracy bit, Randall Wallace (the screenwriter) never purported the film to be accurate to the actual historical events of the time, but instead took inspiration from a fifteenth century epic poem and general folklore. The point was to portray him as a bigger than life hero in the manner of old Hollywood epics, like Ben-Hur and Spartacus (obviously a huge influence). I don't know, maybe my love of its bombastic nature or the nostalgia I might be harboring (this was the first R-rated feature my parents allowed me to watch), but I still love it. I will say that John Toll's cinematography and Horner's score are stupendous still to this day. Anyways, I haven't seen Rob Roy before, and this thread has put it on my radar.


But this is also a man who claims to be a direct decendant of William Wallace so I take everything he says with a grain of salt.*  Braveheart is a mess and a film that does not deserve half the praise it gets.  Rob Roy is a masterpiece.

 

 

 

*however I will defend Man in the Iron Mask to my death.
 

 

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post #11 of 12
7/2/11 at 6:43am

Oh, how can you slam Braveheart and defend Man in the Iron Mask? That is such a easy lay-up and it just falls on its ass.

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post #12 of 12
7/3/11 at 5:20pm

Ken, I love ya mate and we see eye to eye on quite a few filmic things...

 

...but Man In The Iron Mask is dogshit. Not even four screen legends as leads can elevate it.

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