FRANCHISE ME: PHANTASM IV: OBLIVION

IV might just be my favorite one, something about those flashbacks just work like gangbusters for me, particularly the one with Mike and Reg driving down the dark road. Like you I've always wondered just where that could've possibly gone in the first movie(the end, most likely) but it feels perfect in this one.

And I think a great thing about the Morningside flashbacks is how they allow, with only minimal mental gymnastics, to come up with a decent answer for why the Tall Man just never killed Mike during any of the movies. Fanwank incoming:

When Mike first travels into the past and meets Morningside, Morningside's reaction makes it clear that this is big first for him, something finally came through the dimensional fork. It seems fairly logical that this event, Morningside meeting Mike, is what urges him to make his fateful trip through the gate only to (never)return as the Tall Man. The Tall Man's "And so it begins." is just highlighting the loop, the Tall Man in the 19th century has to wait for Mike to show up before he can destroy the world or whathaveyou, he has to manipulate him("You go where I want you to go...boy.") to get him to the point where he'll travel into the past and inspire Morningside to go through the fork and thus become the Tall Man. 

End of fanwank.

So, yeah, great series, both the movies and your write-ups.

But since those scenes were deleted and therefore never actually happened well...............how are they flash backs? Are we supposed to believe the hanging scene happened off screen and the movie somehow skipped over it? Or did Mike not remember it because the first movie was technically a dream and maybe that event happened but he dreamed..........over it or.........I didn't like part 4 very much and the flash back stuff didn't work for me mostly. 

God, I love this franchise and I really hope that Don makes good on his promise to get the fifth one made once he finishes up work on John Dies At The End.

Coscarelli on Phantasm V, circa October 2010....

"Listen, we’re all getting older but the desire is there", he told me. "We’ve been cooking up a couple ideas, and I like to think that as soon as ['John Dies at the End' is] wrapped up we’ll try to get something going. Cause you know, over the years I’ve written a number of different iterations of ‘Phantasm’, and I’d just hate not to ever realize any of that. But it’s funny how this many years later people still care about it. That’s mind-boggling…I guess that’s the beauty and the curse of never actually giving any answers in four movies! [Laughs] [People] want to know what the hell happens. But yeah, I’d love to. I’m still really close friends with all of the actors from it. They’re great people, you know…we just love hanging out and working together. But I’ve gotta get going cause time is short."

http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/22222

He still hints about it from time to time on his Twitter feed as well.  I just hope he isn't stringing fans along with no intention of actually making it, like Sam Raimi seems to be about Evil Dead IV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt 

But since those scenes were deleted and therefore never actually happened well...............how are they flash backs? Are we supposed to believe the hanging scene happened off screen and the movie somehow skipped over it? Or did Mike not remember it because the first movie was technically a dream and maybe that event happened but he dreamed..........over it or.........I didn't like part 4 very much and the flash back stuff didn't work for me mostly. 

Yeah, it would seem the first film skipped over a lot of stuff. It's not the most logical series.

4 is that rare kind of film that I find equally unsurprising if someone loves it or completely hates it. Personally, it is my least liked film in the series. It doesn't work at all as a stand alone film (which is one of the strengths of 2), but it plays an interesting role in the franchise as a whole.

Well, I finally tracked down a copy of the Phantasm 2013 (aka Phantasm's End) script and read it.  Not a fan.  It isn't bad, but it certainly isn't what I would want out of another Phantasm film and doesn't fit the series as a whole very well.  Assuming this is indeed Avary's script (redrafted to include the events of Phantasm IV), I'm shocked that this is the work of a big fan of the franchise.  The only returning characters would really be Reggie and The Tall Man.  Mike has a few dream cameos and then just turns up as a corpse later on in the script!?!?!?  Also, outside of a dead body, Jody is nowhere to be found here.  We also get corpse cameos of Lisa, Alchemy, Morningside, and LeGros Mike.  In terms of The Tall Man's minions, all we are given are the dwarves and ONE big scene with the spheres...................neither of which show up until the second half.  The rest of the threat comes from "baggers", who are humans infected with The Tall Man's blood who become increasingly violent as the infection spreads and end up exploding.........spreading the infection to anyone in the area (think the Boomers from the Left 4 Dead games).  Why these have replaced the zombies and human drones that were already present in the series is beyond me.  The Gravers are nowhere in sight either.  When you have multiple different types of Tall Man minions, why in the hell would you abandon most of them and replace them with something so pedestrian?

After reading for years about how awesome the script was and how it was a fitting end to the series, I'm extremely disappointed.  I'm not sure what kind of budget was needed for this, but beyond showing us an apocalyptic wasteland and CGI-assisted bagger/sphere effects, there isn't much to it.  The only ideas that really click for me are the whole Plague Zone, which is the quarantined off middle section of the US where the Tall Man has decimated the population and the idea of the Mormon Mausoleum.  Everything else is really just a bad riff on Aliens.  Actually, it almost feels like Neil Marshall rewrote this screenplay in the VASTLY superior Doomsday..........as many of the basic concepts are identical outside of the (very few) Phantasm elements.

I used to be bummed out that Phantasm's End didn't get made.  If this is the film we would have been given, then I'm GLAD.  It's nothing but Reg and a squad of marines blowing away exploding zombies, with occasional Tall Man appearances tossed in.  Would it have be fun to see Bruce Campbell as a badass Nick Fury-esque marine who has the American flag tattooed across his face?  Of course, but it isn't worth what we have lost because of that.  The fact that he completely abandons Mike as a character is downright blasphemous towards the franchise and its true fans.  Reggie's sidekick this time around?  A monkey!  I was fine with Tim in the third film, especially since we still had Mike doing his own thing, but did we really have to kill Mike and replace him with a damn monkey named Titi?  If this had been made, I'd rank it as one of the worst horror franchise sequels and the only misfire in this series.  Almost everything iconic and/or different about this franchise is not present in the script.

Alright, I'll stop ranting now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken 

Well, I finally tracked down a copy of the Phantasm 2013 (aka Phantasm's End) script and read it.  Not a fan.  It isn't bad, but it certainly isn't what I would want out of another Phantasm film and doesn't fit the series as a whole very well.  Assuming this is indeed Avary's script (redrafted to include the events of Phantasm IV), I'm shocked that this is the work of a big fan of the franchise.  The only returning characters would really be Reggie and The Tall Man.  Mike has a few dream cameos and then just turns up as a corpse later on in the script!?!?!?  Also, outside of a dead body, Jody is nowhere to be found here.  We also get corpse cameos of Lisa, Alchemy, Morningside, and LeGros Mike.  In terms of The Tall Man's minions, all we are given are the dwarves and ONE big scene with the spheres...................neither of which show up until the second half.  The rest of the threat comes from "baggers", who are humans infected with The Tall Man's blood who become increasingly violent as the infection spreads and end up exploding.........spreading the infection to anyone in the area (think the Boomers from the Left 4 Dead games).  Why these have replaced the zombies and human drones that were already present in the series is beyond me.  The Gravers are nowhere in sight either.  When you have multiple different types of Tall Man minions, why in the hell would you abandon most of them and replace them with something so pedestrian?

 

After reading for years about how awesome the script was and how it was a fitting end to the series, I'm extremely disappointed.  I'm not sure what kind of budget was needed for this, but beyond showing us an apocalyptic wasteland and CGI-assisted bagger/sphere effects, there isn't much to it.  The only ideas that really click for me are the whole Plague Zone, which is the quarantined off middle section of the US where the Tall Man has decimated the population and the idea of the Mormon Mausoleum.  Everything else is really just a bad riff on Aliens.  Actually, it almost feels like Neil Marshall rewrote this screenplay in the VASTLY superior Doomsday..........as many of the basic concepts are identical outside of the (very few) Phantasm elements.

 

I used to be bummed out that Phantasm's End didn't get made.  If this is the film we would have been given, then I'm GLAD.  It's nothing but Reg and a squad of marines blowing away exploding zombies, with occasional Tall Man appearances tossed in.  Would it have be fun to see Bruce Campbell as a badass Nick Fury-esque marine who has the American flag tattooed across his face?  Of course, but it isn't worth what we have lost because of that.  The fact that he completely abandons Mike as a character is downright blasphemous towards the franchise and its true fans.  Reggie's sidekick this time around?  A monkey!  I was fine with Tim in the third film, especially since we still had Mike doing his own thing, but did we really have to kill Mike and replace him with a damn monkey named Titi?  If this had been made, I'd rank it as one of the worst horror franchise sequels and the only misfire in this series.  Almost everything iconic and/or different about this franchise is not present in the script.

 

Alright, I'll stop ranting now.

YUp just got done reading it myself and I agree 100%. 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken 

Well, I finally tracked down a copy of the Phantasm 2013 (aka Phantasm's End) script and read it.  Not a fan.  It isn't bad, but it certainly isn't what I would want out of another Phantasm film and doesn't fit the series as a whole very well.  Assuming this is indeed Avary's script (redrafted to include the events of Phantasm IV), I'm shocked that this is the work of a big fan of the franchise.  The only returning characters would really be Reggie and The Tall Man.  Mike has a few dream cameos and then just turns up as a corpse later on in the script!?!?!?  Also, outside of a dead body, Jody is nowhere to be found here.  We also get corpse cameos of Lisa, Alchemy, Morningside, and LeGros Mike.  In terms of The Tall Man's minions, all we are given are the dwarves and ONE big scene with the spheres...................neither of which show up until the second half.  The rest of the threat comes from "baggers", who are humans infected with The Tall Man's blood who become increasingly violent as the infection spreads and end up exploding.........spreading the infection to anyone in the area (think the Boomers from the Left 4 Dead games).  Why these have replaced the zombies and human drones that were already present in the series is beyond me.  The Gravers are nowhere in sight either.  When you have multiple different types of Tall Man minions, why in the hell would you abandon most of them and replace them with something so pedestrian?

 

After reading for years about how awesome the script was and how it was a fitting end to the series, I'm extremely disappointed.  I'm not sure what kind of budget was needed for this, but beyond showing us an apocalyptic wasteland and CGI-assisted bagger/sphere effects, there isn't much to it.  The only ideas that really click for me are the whole Plague Zone, which is the quarantined off middle section of the US where the Tall Man has decimated the population and the idea of the Mormon Mausoleum.  Everything else is really just a bad riff on Aliens.  Actually, it almost feels like Neil Marshall rewrote this screenplay in the VASTLY superior Doomsday..........as many of the basic concepts are identical outside of the (very few) Phantasm elements.

 

I used to be bummed out that Phantasm's End didn't get made.  If this is the film we would have been given, then I'm GLAD.  It's nothing but Reg and a squad of marines blowing away exploding zombies, with occasional Tall Man appearances tossed in.  Would it have be fun to see Bruce Campbell as a badass Nick Fury-esque marine who has the American flag tattooed across his face?  Of course, but it isn't worth what we have lost because of that.  The fact that he completely abandons Mike as a character is downright blasphemous towards the franchise and its true fans.  Reggie's sidekick this time around?  A monkey!  I was fine with Tim in the third film, especially since we still had Mike doing his own thing, but did we really have to kill Mike and replace him with a damn monkey named Titi?  If this had been made, I'd rank it as one of the worst horror franchise sequels and the only misfire in this series.  Almost everything iconic and/or different about this franchise is not present in the script.

 

Alright, I'll stop ranting now.

So it's bad just because it's different?  All of your gripes are "they changed this, they replaced this lead," etc.

And Planet of the Apes next!  Woo!

I really should revisit this series again.

So what's next? The Prophecy series? Wishmaster?

Havent been commenting on all of these but have read every single one.  Keep it up man loving this concept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dark Shape 

So it's bad just because it's different?  All of your gripes are "they changed this, they replaced this lead," etc.

 

And Planet of the Apes next!  Woo!

 

I have no problem with sequels doing something different.  In fact, I prefer it because I hate constant rehashes.  I do, however, take issue with sequels that literally abandon everything unique to a franchise in favor of doing something cliche and generic................especially when it is supposedly coming from a massive fan of the series.  If you are such a fan, why jettison everything that actually WORKED?  If Phantasm's End had been made, it would have been the AVP of this franchise.  I'm dead serious.
 

Just marathoned the series today and what a schizophrenic franchise this is.   We start with the kind of art house horror film that just isn't made any more and then shift to "Army of Darkness" territory with the second, to direct to video schlock fest of the third one, to indie horror for the last one.

Out of all the entries, I would have to say the first one is by far the best of the series and really showcases how freaky the Tall Man is.   I don't care if you have the special effects to levitate a coffin out of the ground, nothing beats the low tech effect of making a coffin out of balsa wood and having the Tall Man easily load it in his car.   Would I want a fifth installment?   At this point, the cast might just be too old for it to work effectively.   The best thing to do at this point is to reboot the franchise and  bring the franchise to TV for a limited series of six episodes per season.     Or hell, roll the mythology into a season of Supernatural.   What do you guys think?   Is it too late for Phantasm 5?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamotv 

Is it too late for Phantasm 5?

Coscarelli, Romano, Scrimm, Bannister, Thornbury, and Baldwin don't think so..................................and I agree with them.