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HARRY POTTER AND THE DEATHLY HALLOWS: PART 2 Post-Release - Page 7

post #301 of 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian OB View Post

As someone who only read the first book but saw all the movies, I have to say that the movies did an absolutely wretched job of clarifying this world. What the fuck was going on half the time? What are horcruxes? What does Voldremont even want? To kill Harry? To rule the world with evil wizard power?

 

Pretty much.  He's an (The) Evil Wizard.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora Vampiris View Post

 

Gah. Sometimes, I'm too much of a Potterhead. The Harry/Hermione almost kiss after the amazingly bad dance sequence. (Harmony usually refers to a Harry-Hermione pairing in the fanfic world).

 

I wish I could down-rep you knowing this.  You got lucky, kid!

post #302 of 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

I wish I could down-rep you knowing this.  You got lucky, kid!

 

Dammit. Some things are best kept to oneself. Lesson. Learnt. 

To be honest though, my first language isn't English - Harry Potter was my gateway into English-language YA fiction. And I was perhaps a little more pre-occupied with the world of Harry Potter than I should have been - hence the foray into fanfiction. And I still look upon my favorite bits of fanfiction with fondness (more nostalgia goggles than clear hindsight). But whatever - I get that even a polished turd is still just a turd.

post #303 of 346

Sensible hindsight and a mature outlook on your formative influences wouldn't save you from my neg-rep.  Hypothetically.

post #304 of 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora Vampiris View Post

Then you'd never have got the HARMONY scene!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora Vampiris View Post

 

Gah. Sometimes, I'm too much of a Potterhead. The Harry/Hermione almost kiss after the amazingly bad dance sequence. (Harmony usually refers to a Harry-Hermione pairing in the fanfic world).

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora Vampiris View Post

 

Fair enough. But hey, I waded through that shit a lot in my early teenage years. And there were a few gems. So... yeah. 

post #305 of 346

This thread is going to make me vomit.

post #306 of 346
You're weak.
post #307 of 346

*Hooper voice*

 

I can't take this abuse much longer!

 

Aye aye Captain argh aye argh argh....

post #308 of 346

Okay, you guys keep this up and I'm bombarding this thread with DRARRY slash fanfiction.

 

 


Edited by Aurora Vampiris - 7/13/13 at 7:48am
post #309 of 346
Hahahaha
post #310 of 346

Isn't Harry Potter the most popular slash fiction like ever? I remember hearing that somewhere. I would have bet Twilight, but I guess Potter makes a little more sense. There's way more opportunity to be deviant in that world.

post #311 of 346

I'm really really sorry for bringing this thread back up. BUT I CAN'T KEEP THIS IN. VICTORY! (TAKE THAT, MAN OF FREE!)

 

J K apologizes for Ron/Hermione.

post #312 of 346

post #313 of 346

Seriously though, I know people love that relationship precisely because of its traditional slant on "he's pretending to hate you because he lurrrrrvvvves you", but it's always really bothered me. To hear J K admitting it, even in an out-of-context quote (where she probably ends up saying it's alright at the end of the day), is admittedly pretty cool.

 

 

post #314 of 346

The problem is that Harry is boring as fuck.  He's the vessel, the meat suit through which we see the series.  Those comments come off as two women assessing the worth of a potential partnership based on more superfluous elements(Harry is higher social status, etc), which kind of goes against the whole "love isn't logic" premise of that relationship in the first place. 

post #315 of 346

Oh no no no, I don't agree with Rowling when it comes to pairing her with Harry at all. Just saying I'm disappointed in how Rowling felt the need to tie her down, as it were. Had she not, then it would've been a refreshing take on friendship between three people as opposed to a hasty pairing of two characters in the trio who couldn't really be more mismatched.

 

ETA: Just realized we're all playing right into your sinister hands, Freeman. I'm sure you agree with Hermione not being tied down... metaphorically speaking. DAMMIT.

post #316 of 346

post #317 of 346

Agree with Rowking that Ron+Hermione = no fucking sense.

 

Agree with Freeman that Harry's an empty, boring cipher.

 

I always thought Luna and Neville should've ended up together.

post #318 of 346

Opposites attract.

 

What's more disturbing is how Harry and Ginny end up together...just 'cause. Having read the books over several years as the movies were being released, I always thought of Ginny as being the non-entity, basically being defined by her crush on Harry until suddenly she has a bit of spunk in Half-Blood Prince. Bonnie Wright really brought a lot of charm to the character, but even then when they're suddenly flirting it's like...what exactly does Harry like in a girl?

 

He's not exactly a cypher. I really give Rowling credit for making him a bit of an asshole at times, especially in Order of the Phoenix. He's impulsive, quick tempered, and has a subtle bit of dry humor. Still, yeah, there's not a lot to him. When he decides he wants to be an Auror, it's kind of like, "Well, yeah." Very similar to in season three of Buffy when they're all being personality tested to see what jobs they should go on to have, and Buffy comes up as a cop, but at least then she rails against it and brings some introspection. Plus, in later seasons she becomes addicted to an abusive sexual relationship. 

 

In conclusion? Ron's a nice, loyal guy that won't hold Hermione back (you know she'd always put career first) and will be a good father. Aside from that, chemistry is chemistry. When they accidentally hold hands in Prisoner of Azkaban? That's instinct, and often times that's how love works. The movies also have the benefit of hinting at their feelings earlier, whereas in the books it's just dropped into our laps in Goblet of Fire that suddenly Hermione wants Ron to ask her to the dance...only for their relationship to be ignored again until she's jealous of Lavender in Half-Blood Prince. Maybe not the best planned romance, but the movies smooth out the edges, especially with the interactions between the actors. The aforementioned dance between Harry and Hermione is only a what-if? because of that one scene in the movie, it's never even hinted at in the books, and it's all because the actors pull off the spontaneous catharsis of rocking out to Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds.

post #319 of 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
 

Agree with Rowking that Ron+Hermione = no fucking sense.

 

Agree with Freeman that Harry's an empty, boring cipher.

 

I always thought Luna and Neville should've ended up together.


I'm 90 percent sure there's a line saying that Luna and Neville did end up together.

 

Ginny's such a nothing character that she kind of fits with Harry perfectly.  The thing is Harry IS good for taking us through the tour of adolescence, the crippling fear of first dating, the thrill of success in school etc, but he's a cipher none the less.  It doesn't matter if Ron and Hermione would really end up together or not, they're fictional characters.  The point at the end of the day is that the best romance bits in the entire Harry Potter saga are almost exclusively them.  I get emotionally engaged by sweet little moments between them, that's literally all it takes.  It's telling that I can't really think of a great Ginny/Harry "moment".  I'm just a little annoyed that Rowling would look at something that CLEARLY works in context and think, "I could have done better."  Don't be George Lucas.

post #320 of 346

While we're nitpicking the endings (and I might have said this before, in this thread even)...

Why is Hermione just a mum at the end?  If you're doing that 'where they end up' ending like that, if there's one character in the series you keep out of sight and wonder what happened to her while showing the kids go to school etc and then the reveal is "...and your new Defence against the Dark Arts master; Professor Granger" (yeah she's hip enough to keep her own name).

Not only is she That Character in this sort of story, it's thematically rather cool.

 

Is that all that happens in the books?  Everyone just becomes greying breeders?  *yawn*

post #321 of 346

I think she becomes a lawyer or something.  Harry seemed like the obvious choice as the Defense teacher, but I get having him and Ron be buddy cops is a better fate than never actually growing up and moving past Hogwarts.  Like Neville. 

post #322 of 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzman View Post
 

While we're nitpicking the endings (and I might have said this before, in this thread even)...

Why is Hermione just a mum at the end?  If you're doing that 'where they end up' ending like that, if there's one character in the series you keep out of sight and wonder what happened to her while showing the kids go to school etc and then the reveal is "...and your new Defence against the Dark Arts master; Professor Granger" (yeah she's hip enough to keep her own name).

Not only is she That Character in this sort of story, it's thematically rather cool.

 

Is that all that happens in the books?  Everyone just becomes greying breeders?  *yawn*

They're seeing their kids off at a train station. When I drop people off at the airport, I don't pass out textbooks and start lecturing on textual analysis and rhetorical strategies.

 

(I teach freshman composition)

post #323 of 346

That's the low imagination version of a wrap-up ending.  The point is its not in any way indicated that she's a Hogwarts teacher,  so I assume she actually isn't.  She should have been.

post #324 of 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzman View Post
 

That's the low imagination version of a wrap-up ending.  The point is its not in any way indicated that she's a Hogwarts teacher,  so I assume she actually isn't.  She should have been.

post #325 of 346

Yeah it's fairly marginal stuff.  But I figure since we're debating the various -shipping options..

post #326 of 346

Harry wasn't my favorite but he wasn't quite as bland as many other fantasy/YA leads. Reread the first few books before the CAPSLOCK era. The dude was sassy and snarky as heck.

 

As for Ron/Hermione vs. Harry/Hermione, I'm for neither. Hermione/Krum and Harry/Therapy forever! Ron/Hermione had their UST but in real life they'd be heading for divorce (do wizards divorce? they're so archaic in many ways) within 5 years. With all of Ron's inferiority issues he'd likely grow to resent Hermione's success.

 

If anything, J.K. should apologize for Harry/Ginny. That chest monster...

 

I do like how years later she's willing to admit that she forced some things to fit the epilogue she'd written 15 years earlier instead of providing an ending to fit where the characters had actually evolved.

post #327 of 346

Hermione ends up in the Department of Magical Creatures in the Ministry of Magic, according to Rowling, and works towards equal treatment of all sentient beings. Ron and Harry become Aurors and Harry ends up as Head of Magical Law Enforcement.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
In conclusion? Ron's a nice, loyal guy that won't hold Hermione back (you know she'd always put career first) and will be a good father. Aside from that, chemistry is chemistry. When they accidentally hold hands in Prisoner of Azkaban? That's instinct, and often times that's how love works. The movies also have the benefit of hinting at their feelings earlier, whereas in the books it's just dropped into our laps in Goblet of Fire that suddenly Hermione wants Ron to ask her to the dance...only for their relationship to be ignored again until she's jealous of Lavender in Half-Blood Prince. Maybe not the best planned romance, but the movies smooth out the edges, especially with the interactions between the actors. The aforementioned dance between Harry and Hermione is only a what-if? because of that one scene in the movie, it's never even hinted at in the books, and it's all because the actors pull off the spontaneous catharsis of rocking out to Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds.

 

 

The problem with the notion of Hermione/Ron, for me, is that it hews to traditional romantic notions while not going through with the whole thing. Relationships that start out with bickering usually have three phases of sorts - where the characters bicker, then develop mutual respect through some event, and then fall for each other. Hermione/Ron skips the whole second phase - the people that are fans of the pairing have to perform some weird agralculus to assume the second phase happens, but it's not evidenced by Ron's actions in later books - I see nothing to prove he's grown from his shallow, jealous, inferiority-complex-ridden youth. At all. His fears are exactly the same when he smashes the Horcrux - Harry usurping what he considers his. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth - I think Hermione deserves far better.

 

So at the end of the day, Rowling just furnished cues - where Ron/Hermione go from huge rows in the fourth book (mostly revolving around Harry's Triwizard selection) to Ron asking Hermione out to the Slug Club in a "deep voice." And we have to fill in the blanks - again, the pairing itself is trivial, but to those of us that were huge Hermione fans, it was very, very weird. It's going through the motions without going through the motions. I don't think there's anything in the fifth book (which is full of angst anyway) that shows either Hermione or Ron developing respect for each other.

 

Rowling's romances are so weird. Ginny kisses Harry because she feels she deserves him after a Quidditch victory. Harry gets a monster in his chest out of nowhere just because. Hermione and Ron fall for each other because that's what bickering people of opposite sexes do.

 

Again, I'm not one to speak - since I've not really experienced this feeling you mortals call love, being undead and all - but, if that's how love works... uh... leave me out of it.

post #328 of 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

They're seeing their kids off at a train station. When I drop people off at the airport, I don't pass out textbooks and start lecturing on textual analysis and rhetorical strategies.

 

(I teach freshman composition)

 

Then you are teaching wrong.  I always lecture about rhetorical strategies to strangers and loved ones alike. "Use your words to make a better world!" I shout into the void.

post #329 of 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

What's more disturbing is how Harry and Ginny end up together...just 'cause. Having read the books over several years as the movies were being released, I always thought of Ginny as being the non-entity, basically being defined by her crush on Harry until suddenly she has a bit of spunk in Half-Blood Prince. Bonnie Wright really brought a lot of charm to the character, but even then when they're suddenly flirting it's like...what exactly does Harry like in a girl?

 

Maybe Harry likes her cause she looks like Ron. There's a twist.

post #330 of 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post
 

 

Maybe Harry likes her cause she looks like Ron. There's a twist.

post #331 of 346
You do realize massive amounts of Ron and hermiones lives take place when Harry isn't around, right Aurora?
post #332 of 346

No, no, I get that. But, like I said, I just don't like Ron as a character - right through to the end. And it's the opposite reaction with Hermione. And when we're not given any reason to root for the pairing, the most I can muster up is indifference. It just fell flat - the movie does a far better job of making them come together, IMO. Same with Harry-Ginny - that first kiss in the Room of Requirements was inspired.

post #333 of 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora Vampiris View Post
 

. It just fell flat - the movie does a far better job of making them come together, IMO. Same with Harry-Ginny - that first kiss in the Room of Requirements was inspired.

 

Really?

Really?

 

Harry/Ginny was nearly as terrible in the movies as it was in the books.

 

post #334 of 346

HAHAHAHAH the best gif.

post #335 of 346

I must be the odd one out here, because I like both Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione.  I especially love Ginny in the books.  She has a lot of spark that didn't translate over to the films.

post #336 of 346
Explain yourself.
post #337 of 346

On Harry/Ginny, Ron/Hermione or Ginny as a character?

post #338 of 346

That epilogue was everything I find annoying and unimaginative about the Harry Potter series personified. 

 

It's not even who ended up with who, it's Rowling's incredibly neat, utterly inhuman "and then all these high school kids ended up marrying each other and staying together forever." Yes, some people marry their high school sweethearts, but most don't. I always find it contrived and boring when a story about teenagers features a pairing that we're eventually told ends up with them married, because it suggests that nothing happened to these people once they grew up, that they became the most boring people imaginable and never tried anything new for the rest of their lives. Rowling's ending is the epitome of that (I mean, obviously with Voldemort dead and all their lives would be a lot quieter, but maybe you want to do something besides shack up and start breeding?) There's an underlying conservativism and conformity to that which I've found to run throughout the Potter books, regardless of Rowling's stated politics (and the fact that, for instance, she didn't have the balls to say that Dumbledore was gay in the actual books and left it to offhand comments years later, lines up with this as well.) 

 

Tangent: I remember when the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Century 2008 came out and Comics Alliance chastised Alan Moore for having "a character from the 30s" (Mary Poppins) defeat a modern character (Harry Potter) and claimed it was some kind of regressive, backwards-looking move. Except I'd argue that regardless of when they were created, Mary Poppins is actually a pretty progressive character, possibly more so than anyone in the Harry Potter books. 

 

Anyway. Rowling's comments actually suggest an interesting story about a divorced Hermione in her 30s, trying to catch up to her wasted potential. That'd be a way more interesting story to me than the Potter books, frankly. 

post #339 of 346

The thing is these people went through so much extraordinary incredible shit that it's not hard to see why they stuck together.  Would Hermione really feel stronger for a bunch of strange men who are bankers or lawyers or the men who risked their lives with her side by side to slay the fucking dark lord?

post #340 of 346

I think it's a little harsh to say that Hermione's potential is wasted with Ron.  Is it possible that they wouldn't work out?  Of course, but it's by no means inevitable.  Ron becoming more sensitive to what is important to Hermione is part of his development through the books, even though it's a long process.  That's why I found their pairing to be a logical, satisfying conclusion.

 

I'll concur with Freeman's point above too.  Not all high school friends get together, but they went through some pretty damn extraordinary circumstances.

post #341 of 346

Not to mention we see Ron and Hermione looking happily married. 

post #342 of 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

Not to mention we see Ron and Hermione looking happily married. 

 

We sure about that?

 

 

"Fuck, I hate him so much. Gotta keep smiling so I don't upset the kids."

 

"Fuck, I hate her so much. At least I've got my witch porn."

post #343 of 346

Pffft.  Like he would need witch porn. 

post #344 of 346

Don't you know the expression "Show me a beautiful witch, I'll show you a wizard who's tired of lumosing her"?

post #345 of 346

I'm up to the challenge.

post #346 of 346

After the recent debates, here's a great defense of book!Ron and an examination of what the films got wrong about the character in translating him to the screen.

 

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/01/erased-by-time-and-blockbusters-the-cautionary-tale-of-ron-weasley

 

Quote:
So what about Ron? He actually tends to a very clear gap in the ranks—providing a sense of family unity and street smarts. While Ron himself may often feel crushed by the burden of familial expectations, he extends the closeness of the Weasley clan to his friends both figuratively and literally. Harry and Hermione do both eventually become members of his family through marriage, but more importantly, Ron always treats them as blood. It’s there in every holiday Harry spends with the Weasley family, with that first sweater Harry receives on Christmas, and the unconditional love Harry and Hermione are both offered only because Ron’s family know how much these children mean to their son. I mean, he steals the family hover-car with the help of the twins because he’s worried that Harry is being held hostage by his abusive relatives. That knight parallel from their mega chess battle is looking more and more apt.

 

Quote:
 

But there’s perhaps something more subtle at work here as well. Where films are more recent in public memory, they can sometimes overwrite their fictional underpinnings. Is it possible that much of this Ron-hate is coming from people who are confusing canon-Ron with Ron-on-film?

 

Let’s start that examination with a little set-up. When Steve Kloves (who wrote the majority of the Potter screenplays) met J.K. Rowling for the first time, he told her straight up that Hermione was his favorite character. Rowling admitted to being relieved, and who could blame her? It was more likely for Hermione to end up disrespected on screen—she wouldn’t be the first female hero to get butchered in the reels.

 

But this resulted in an undercutting of Ron’s entire character from the first movie. Don’t believe it? When the trio go after the Philosopher’s Stone, they face a series of tests that demand each of their skills in turn. Time likely demanded that this sequence be cut down, and so Hermione’s test—solving Professor Snape’s potion riddle—was removed entirely. To make up for this, she gets them out of the Devil’s Snare, Professor Sprout’s deadly plant. Hermione shouts to Harry and Ron to relax so the foliage will release them—but Ron continues to panic and moan (in campiest fashion possible because he’s played by a child actor and these things are always requested of them), requiring Hermione to blast the thing with a sunlight spell.

 

In the book, Hermione is the one who panics. She remembers what her lessons taught her—that the Devil’s Snare will recoil at fire—but balks at their lack of matches while they are being strangled to death. Ron immediately shrieks to the rescue YOU ARE A WITCH YOU HAVE A WAND YOU KNOW SPELLS WHAT ARE MATCHES.

 

It’s a simple change, but it makes such a marked difference in how both characters come off to an audience. Rather than a near-infant, incapable of following the clearest directions, Ron is the even-keeled nitty-gritty one. He’s a tactician, the one who will find the simplest answer to a problem provided that the situation is dire enough to ensure his clear head. Ron is good under pressure and brave to boot. He’s also hilarious.

 

It is easy to write this off as an actor problem; Emma Watson matured and improved much faster than her costars in terms of talent—and Steve Kloves liked her portrayal so much that he started giving her many of Ron’s important lines. During The Prisoner of Azkaban, Sirius Black is trying to get to Peter Pettigrew (currently disguised as Scabbers the Rat), but Ron and Hermione are convinced he’s after Harry. In the book, Ron stares up defiantly from his mangled, broken leg and tells Sirius Black that if he wants Harry, he’ll have to get through his friends first.

 

And in the film, it’s Hermione who boldly steps in the line of fire while Ron sobs in pain and babbles incoherently.

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