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Sons of Anarchy season 4 - Page 2

post #51 of 527
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Originally Posted by Disciple_72 View Post

Quote:

 

It's not quite the new Donna/Tig/Clay situation yet, but I'd say they took it off the backburner when it became the big season three cliffhanger. Clay and Gemma's possible involvement in Teller's death was only hinted at before and was brought up a total of two, maybe three times in the previous seasons. But now a few episodes into season four and already we have Clay looking rather worried, Gemma looking even more worried and going through Tara's shit behind her back, hidden police reports, and Unser knowing something about what happened. They're building to something, there has to be some kind of movement on that plot this year.

I didn't say it was still on the backburner, though, I said it had been there too long to feel as dire as the previous bombshells club has tried to hide.  One of the chief strengths of the show has always been how things start tense and quickly ratchet upward and upward from there.  Season 2, the undisputed highlight of the show, began with a very loose lid on the Donna situation and immediately threw a gang rape on top.  Even last season, uneven as it was, started with a bang.  If this were another show, starting things this slow (mass murdering villainous extras can't compete with shit happening to characters we're actually invested in) wouldn't even be worth mentioning, but this is a show that always hit the ground running.  Killing a mole seems like it should immediately take things in a bad direction, but the immediate reaction from the feds is "we'll sit back and see what happens for a few weeks", and its not like the guys haven't skated on murdering two ATF agents before with practically no fuss.  Getting in bed with the cartel is an ominous move, but so far they're getting the guys out of jams.

 

I actually rather enjoyed both these episodes, but they represent a change of pace for the show.  I just hope it's due to a deliberate decision to switch things up and not simply an inability to match what's come before.

post #52 of 527

Well it may not have the dire threat thing going on, but I think just the fact that it is such a big deal -our hero's mom and new dad may have murdered his biological father- means it can never be diminished. Beyond Jax, we are already starting to see some cracks between Clay and Bobby (and possibly Tig), and if this secret was revealed to certain members it could cause all sorts of divisions.

 

Since Shield/SOA parallels are inevitable, it's the closest thing this show has to a Vic Mackey/Terry Crowley situation, but the difference is I think SOA is going to milk it more. Before, it was like this vague, lingering horrible thing in the background. Now, its getting a bit clearer, and closer to coming back and biting a bunch of people in the ass.

 

As for those murdered agents, they'll probably get away with Stahl, but I think Sutter is saving a Dutchboy corpse story for some time in the future when Jax is mad at Clay but also needs Clay.

 

 

post #53 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disciple_72 View Post

Well it may not have the dire threat thing going on, but I think just the fact that it is such a big deal -our hero's mom and new dad may have murdered his biological father- means it can never be diminished. Beyond Jax, we are already starting to see some cracks between Clay and Bobby (and possibly Tig), and if this secret was revealed to certain members it could cause all sorts of divisions.

 

Since Shield/SOA parallels are inevitable, it's the closest thing this show has to a Vic Mackey/Terry Crowley situation, but the difference is I think SOA is going to milk it more. Before, it was like this vague, lingering horrible thing in the background. Now, its getting a bit clearer, and closer to coming back and biting a bunch of people in the ass.

 

As for those murdered agents, they'll probably get away with Stahl, but I think Sutter is saving a Dutchboy corpse story for some time in the future when Jax is mad at Clay but also needs Clay.

 

 

 

Yea, I agree its such a big part of the show the possibility that Jax can stubble on the truth.  And I like how the possibility has been there for so long, the $hit can hit the fan at any point.  You know its the inevitable showdown, like Walt and Hank.  I like how shows leave this massive confrontation you know is going to happen, makes the affair more interesting and tense, even if that particular plot isn't being actively pursued all the time.

 

The funny thing is Sutter always mentions The Sopranos as the primary influence of the show, and the kinda show Sons is trying to be, yet I don't really see it, I really do see the legacy of The Shield in Sons.  The Crowley like corpse I imagine will be the murdered undercover agent.
 

 

post #54 of 527

Them getting away with Stahl is rather ridiculous, though.  If that case didn't get the full CSI-treatment, I don't know what would.  I'm sure Opie's scraggly ass left hair fibers all over the back seat, and of course the one cop who gets off with a busted jaw is a local who the agent had frozen out of the investigation because she suspected he was in cahoots with them.  And she was killed almost exactly the way one of the free club members' wife was, due to an operation she orchestrated.  And Jimmy O was left with the same scars as another of the free members, who got them from him.  Hey guys, maybe it's not the best time to get poetical when you're committing an incredibly high-profile assassination of a federal agent.  Oh, and Jax and Chibs both, I know it's a badass move to spit on the corpse of the guy you just gutted, but you're also leaving your DNA at the scene of a capital crime.  May want to lay off that shit.

 

I guess we're to understand that Potter knows all about the Russian/IRA deal from his mole, but bought that the club farmed out the actual deed to the Irish? 

post #55 of 527

Those bikers sure love to spit on their kills.

 

I think SOA will probably get away with the Stahl murder only because I don't think that Kurt Sutter will want to mess with the "coolness" or the symmetry of that season finale revenge ending. Whereas Jax shooting Dutch in the head and then dumping him in a ditch, was much more of a messy hot blooded thing, felt like something designed to bring the characters of Jax and Tara closer together, but also like groundwork for serious problems later in the series.

 

The law enforcers here are as competent or as incompetent as the show needs them to be. The best was when the gang was shooting at people in broad daylight, in the middle of the road, from the back of a big truck with UNSER written on the side, and this was never mentioned again. It's a pretty ridiculous show. That's why I think Sutter should just go ahead and work with Rockstar games already.

 

 

post #56 of 527

Yea, getting away with the Stahl murder wasn't very believable, but Sons plays fast and loose when it needs to.  And for some reason I also think that one isn't coming back to haunt them.

 

One thing I'm not buying at all is Jax's conflict of wanting to leave SOA yet getting more hardcore at the same time.  So the only thing he thought about the whole time in prison was Tara and his son?  Yet, as soon as he gets out he goes back to murdering and running dope?  The murder was the dumbest move of all, especially considering they know they're being tailed.  I guess revenge is more important then potentially going back to prison for the rest of your life, and then your wife and kids.  And then running dope we're expected to believe is for money so he can get away, but this doesn't work because his wife is a doctor.  If they were dirt poor, or desperately needed an cash influx for some life threatening situation it'd make sense, but as it is, its a little contrived to have Jax doing what he is doing.

 

But even so, I'm letting it slide, and so far I'm enjoying the season more than the last.

post #57 of 527

Yeah, my biggest problem with the season so far* is that we don't have a clear idea of how much Jax has bought into his "one more score" line.  When talking to Tara he seemed totally sincere, but he's simultaneously plotting the mass murder of an organized crime ring, which he would be re-goddamn-tarded to think was going to do anything but dig him in deeper to everything he's talking about walking away from.  Even if it goes off without accidentally murdering an FBI agent, which is the kind of thing he should really be starting to anticipate as a matter of course at this point. 

 

I think we're to believe he's more delusional than outright dumb, but they could get that off a little better.  Especially since the biggest issue I had with last season was that they divorced the audience from our main identification character by having him run a Keyser Soze on us.  Jax is not the most interesting or charismatic character on his own merits, so we need to be fully plugged into what he's thinking and feeling in order for him to function as the center of the show.

 

*The other stuff was just to say that I enjoyed these episodes for what they were, which is all set up.


Edited by Schwartz - 9/16/11 at 9:33am
post #58 of 527

It's almost comical how the Sons of Anarchy just can't stop murdering feds, whether deliberately or by accident. I believe they just need one more to beat Baby Face Nelson's record.

 

Prediction: in a future episode we will find out that Clay and Gemma killed Jax's father because he was an undercover fed (who just happened to be into Harleys and gay poetry).

post #59 of 527
Good episode. Anyone else get the feeling that the secret about John Teller's death is more complicated? Jemma told Unser, not Clay, about the accident report.

Maybe she killed Teller, so she could be with Clay. Jax finding out that his mum murdered his dad is just the sort of twisted stuff Sutter likes.
post #60 of 527

Gemma didn't tell Clay about the accident report because as usual she wants to try and control the situation. She may be worried for the safety of Tara/Jax if she tells Clay. She only told Unser because he's both a trusted confidante and a complete pussy. Whatever happened to John Teller though, pretty sure Clay has full knowledge. Why else would he be so concerned about stuff like knowing if Tara asked Unser about Teller's death?

post #61 of 527

"He's black, like African black." Dunbar keeps owning.

 

The deeper Clay keeps digging this hole the more I'm convinced he's not getting through this season alive.

 

Masterful direction from Peter Weller.

post #62 of 527

They did a great job of ramping up tensions within the club even while things are relatively quiet overall (it's not like the Vivica thing ever threatened to be anything but a throwaway caper).  Things are starting to feel awfully tenuous as it is, they should be downright explosive once things with the cartel go south and Potter stops hanging back. 

 

Juice's storyline also looks promising, as racism is the one aspect of biker culture the show has been skittish about addressing.

post #63 of 527

I kind of feel like the racism thing is coming out of left field, and doesn't strike me as a very compelling reason for Juice to turn snitch. I always assumed the Sons might be racist in a general sort of redneck way, but not that racist.

 

All in all, this season is starting off as strong as I can remember any before, and promises to be the best one yet. I like that it's getting back to its Shakespearean roots, and can overlook the sloppiness in its depiction of law enforcement in favor of an exploration of richer themes of greed and betrayal.

post #64 of 527

Sutter seems to have learned his lessons from last year. These first few episodes have been as good as any this show has done.

 

And there's definitely going to be a heavy bodycount for the Sons by the time the season ends. Everyone seems to be working some kind of angle. There's no way all of this shit gets sorted without blood.

post #65 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

Sutter seems to have learned his lessons from last year. These first few episodes have been as good as any this show has done.

 

And there's definitely going to be a heavy bodycount for the Sons by the time the season ends. Everyone seems to be working some kind of angle. There's no way all of this shit gets sorted without blood.



Agreed.  I had this show on a short leash to start the season and I've greatly enjoyed it so far.

 

We have 3 agreed upon Presidents now, right?  Or did that change because Bobby voted 'no' so it's only Opie and Jax now?

post #66 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post

I kind of feel like the racism thing is coming out of left field, and doesn't strike me as a very compelling reason for Juice to turn snitch. I always assumed the Sons might be racist in a general sort of redneck way, but not that racist.

 

All in all, this season is starting off as strong as I can remember any before, and promises to be the best one yet. I like that it's getting back to its Shakespearean roots, and can overlook the sloppiness in its depiction of law enforcement in favor of an exploration of richer themes of greed and betrayal.

I actually like the way racism is portrayed in this show. It feels so much more realistic. Whenever I see these movies where people are openly racist and have no soul im taken right out of it. Also I dig that all the groups are a little racist. Whenever they interact with one another there is usually a little racial jab thrown casually back and forth and still remains semi good natured in a weird fucked up way. Like when those black kids first encounter the blonde biker. They throw one at him, he throws one back, they come back with another. I mean afterall gangs are all race based right? They see the world through we can trust us and no outsiders. 

 

Actually that is whats a little confusing about the Sons. Clearly they have to non white Sons right? The one who's house they are hiding the guns at his house and Juice. Not to mention one jewish guy. Juice is puertorican and it's not like he is "passing" as white because they mention him being so in a couple episodes. So they are cool with latin sons but not black? Seems weird especially when he has been fully accepted into the main circle this whole time. 

post #67 of 527

Yeah, the Juice thing really surprised me. We'll see how that plays out or if Sutter pulls another "Jax is a snitch" trick.

post #68 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Pathetic View Post

We have 3 agreed upon Presidents now, right?  Or did that change because Bobby voted 'no' so it's only Opie and Jax now?


I'm pretty sure Clay told Bobby he was going to back him for president regardless of how he voted.  Whether he meant it is another story, but really, who else is he going to go to?  Chibs, maybe.  But it's not like you'd be able to rally the guys around Tig or Happy.

 

The racism thing could work or could not, but they need to get into it more, explain exactly what the Sons deal is with black members when they accept Hispanic and Jewish ones, and why Juice hid it.  Because it was just easier to pass for white/light-skinned Latino?  Reluctance to even acknowledge an absentee father?  What is the deal with the Grim Bastards?  Would they have taken him?

post #69 of 527

There is this graph about all the lawsuits going on in the cellphone industry. It's just this mess of arrows that shows everyone going up against everyone.

 

A similar graph for SOA wouldn't look much different. 

post #70 of 527

The baller calling Kozik "lemonhead" was the highlight.

post #71 of 527

Followed by him calling him "Buckwheat" in return.

post #72 of 527

Kind of interested in the race thing since I was just reading an article on the black biker gangs in Oakland and L.A. and that they integrated pretty quickly. I could actually see it as something backfiring on the Sheriff.

post #73 of 527

I'm confused about why the race thing would be such a big deal, isn't Happy black?  Or would it be because Juice deceived them?

post #74 of 527

Hell if I know. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

post #75 of 527

Just wanted to drop in and say just watched Season 1, loving it so far. The second Opie's wife was shot, I had to keep watching all night.

 

God bless Netflix!

post #76 of 527
Great episode. I was suprised to see Gemma confronting Tara so quickly. In season 3 that would have taken at least 3 episodes. In fact the whole club is a lot more pro-active this year, instead of waiting to react when the plot demanded it.

Sutter talks a bit about Juice's racism plot:

http://sutterink.blogspot.com/2011/09/black-and-white-of-mcs.html
post #77 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

Great episode. I was suprised to see Gemma confronting Tara so quickly. In season 3 that would have taken at least 3 episodes. In fact the whole club is a lot more pro-active this year, instead of waiting to react when the plot demanded it.
 



I actually was surprised she was as direct about it as she was (which still fell short of full disclosure), but we're exactly 3 episodes in to this season.

post #78 of 527

Blasted through season 2, and going to get my hands on season 3, but I'm scared that this season isn't as good as the others. Kill the show bad, or just hey it's better than most shit bad?

 

My complaint with season 2 is Jax just taking his sweet time with the Opie news, and then Opie doesn't go all ape shit. Yeah he threatens, but just sticks to the club. Is the brotherhood that strong suddenly?! Abel kidnapping, lump in throat. Good ending.

 

Heard season 4 picks it up.

 

 

post #79 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAIRUS View Post

Blasted through season 2, and going to get my hands on season 3, but I'm scared that this season isn't as good as the others. Kill the show bad, or just hey it's better than most shit bad?

 

My complaint with season 2 is Jax just taking his sweet time with the Opie news, and then Opie doesn't go all ape shit. Yeah he threatens, but just sticks to the club. Is the brotherhood that strong suddenly?! Abel kidnapping, lump in throat. Good ending.

 

Heard season 4 picks it up.

 

 




My friend got into the show on my recommendation, but also just read the wiki on season 3 rather than watch it.  He seemed pretty satisfied with that, but I'm pretty unforgiving about season 3.  The last couple of episodes were good, the season as a whole was a pretty large failure imo.

post #80 of 527

If you weren't really into S2, you might as well give up.  That's easily the strongest the show's been.  As for 3, I recommend people watch the premiere and the finale.  The rest is skippable, and I'm usually quite a completionist when it comes to TV shows.

post #81 of 527

I'll echo the sentiments about season 3 expressed so far. The issue of quality is subjective - overall I still thought it was better than average television - but it's almost an entirely self-contained season. The storyline had nothing to do with the overall narrative of the show. It was pretty much all about getting Abel back.

post #82 of 527

Primo special forces photo of Benito Martinez.

 

Really enjoy how Potter is using aliases left and right to stir up shit, though at the same time I hope his conversation with Otto isn't gonna mean it's curtains for Bobby.

post #83 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti View Post

Really enjoy how Potter is using aliases left and right to stir up shit, though at the same time I hope his conversation with Otto isn't gonna mean it's curtains for Bobby.



Not sure I'm following here.  What could he even tell Otto?  That he was banging his wife while he was inside?  Would the club really turn on a valued member for the sake of cripple on death row, especially since they made it clear at the time it wasn't technically against the rules. 

 

I didn't even catch anything about Otto.  Was it in the preview?

post #84 of 527

Bobby nailing Luann didn't break any rules, but Potter is trying to plant the seed in Otto's head that Bobby was involved in her death. Now if Otto goes to Clay with that info then normally I'd see Clay writing it off as bullshit. Though with the tension growing between Clay and Bobby it wouldn't take much at this point for things to get real ugly between them.

post #85 of 527

Still seems like a stretch, at least that it would go far enough to threaten Bobby's life or spot in the club.  Undermine his campaign for reform, sure.


Edited by Schwartz - 9/27/11 at 10:17pm
post #86 of 527

That murder was from two seasons ago, so to have it brought up out of the blue right now while things are going south between Bobby and Clay just seems like interesting timing.

 

 

post #87 of 527

Kurt Sutter gives himself such great scenes. Otto is the best character on the show for me, even better than Tig, which is saying a lot.

 

These motorcycle club rules continue to fascinate and amuse me. If you leave the club, they turn your picture UPSIDE DOWN. They sure showed that guy!

 

Normally my opinion is that this show uses the musical montage thing a bit too much, but man that Dylan cover in Spanish was absolutely gorgeous (anyone know the artist?)

post #88 of 527
the musical montage is integral to the show, just like it was for the Shield.....it's not going anywhere!

i always wonder if real members of the HA's or similar clubs have seen this show, and what their thoughts are on it.
post #89 of 527

Man, I was posting last night totally not even realizing that it was Tuesday and a new episode had already aired.  Oops.

 

Anyway, I don't mind the montages.  I've come to accept that pretty much every episode opens, and every other episode ends, with one, and they don't always need to signify anything more than scene or mood setting.

 

I love how any time SAMCRO visits another charter, they don't leave without absolutely GUTTING their membership and management structure.

post #90 of 527
we should start a CHUD.com S.O.A. S4 SAMCRO Dead Pool for who's kicking the proverbial bucket in the season finale. I'll take Clay, something tells me he's not making it past this year.
post #91 of 527

Where the fuck was Opie?

post #92 of 527

Stayed in bed with his wife, the porn star.

post #93 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCatfishCommander View Post

the musical montage is integral to the show, just like it was for the Shield.....it's not going anywhere!


But on the Shield they used it sparingly. The gold standard of course is the money train/"I Am Overcome" bit, which was so unexpected, and so awesome. To me it stops being as effective when you do it all the damn time like SOA. I want something that's mostly drama, not part drama/part biker music video. The only times it really worked for me was:

 

-the finale to last season where you think the rest of the club all want to kill Jax for being a rat, but then you realize they were all in on it (even though it's a pretty cheap gotcha twist from Sutter, I did smile)

 

- that older episode that had the montage of all the different club members waking up in the morning with their partners- was sad though that they didn't put Tig next to a cadaver

post #94 of 527
Wasn't the best episode, but probably would have been the 2nd best all of last season. So at least we're still in positive territory.

SAMTAZ is a pretty cool charter name.
post #95 of 527

Man, this season is so much better than the previous one it's not even funny. It's still not up to S2 standards but it's comfortably the second best.

 

Anyway, for all the tricks the delectable Mr. McKinnon's trying to pull, I'm certain there won't enough of the Sons alive in the end to actually pull off a RICO case.

post #96 of 527

Man, that Spanish version of Bob Dylan's song fit this episode (and this season, so far) perfectly.  Times are indeed changing.

 

I completely forgot that Bobby had started banging Luann before she died.  Mr. Potter is definitely trying to stir up some shit.  I wonder what he's gonna try to pull regarding Gemma and Rita.  I know his wheels were spinning as he was listenting to the two of them in the flower shop.

 

Any bets on whether or not Piney gets taken out for trying to get to the truth about what happened to John Teller?

post #97 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti View Post

 

 

The deeper Clay keeps digging this hole the more I'm convinced he's not getting through this season alive.

 

 


No chance he dies.  As soon as Clay is gone so is Jax.  I can see Clay killing a few SOA members to keep his secrets but the show is over once Clay is dead.
 

 

post #98 of 527
i dont think Jax is gone. i really think Clay is going to die this season, but im sure they already figured out how to keep Jax around for a few more seasons
post #99 of 527

If we're starting a SOA Season 4 Dead Pool, I'll take a couple of easy picks: Piney and Bobby.

post #100 of 527
haha finally someone else jumps in. im taking Clay and an easy one, Wayne
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