The Walking Dead Season 2 (AMC) - Page 3

Last night’s season two premiere of AMC’s original series, “The Walking Dead” delivered the strongest telecast for any drama in basic cable history.  The season two premiere delivered 4.8 million Adults 18-49 and 4.2 million Adults 25-54 shattering a basic cable record set nearly 10 years ago for a single drama telecast.  The program delivered a 4.8 HH rating netting 7.3 million total viewers. These results represent a 36% and 38% increase respectively over season one’s series average on AMC.  Season one’s series average delivered the most A18-49 viewers for a drama in basic cable history.

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Originally Posted by NickP 

wow... really?  really?  WOW.  I guess when you don't have a real response, it's time to throw out insults.  What's next, the "mother remark" or the "fag" 

Your only line of defense for this show is "Turn off your brain!  Derp, derp!" caked with a thin layer of bullshit and contempt for people who have real problems with how shoddy this overhyped show is.  My pre-emptive fuck you was well deserved.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Murder 

Last night’s season two premiere of AMC’s original series, “The Walking Dead” delivered the strongest telecast for any drama in basic cable history.  The season two premiere delivered 4.8 million Adults 18-49 and 4.2 million Adults 25-54 shattering a basic cable record set nearly 10 years ago for a single drama telecast.  The program delivered a 4.8 HH rating netting 7.3 million total viewers. These results represent a 36% and 38% increase respectively over season one’s series average on AMC.  Season one’s series average delivered the most A18-49 viewers for a drama in basic cable history.

Just goes to show ratings have nothing to do with quality.

A nuanced and insightful defense. Well done.

You and NickP liked it. Fine. But aren't we here at CHUD for something more than just "I liked it! IT WAS GREAT!" Aren't we here for something a bit more intelligent and in-depth?

So tell us why the slow pacing, the lack of consistent characterization, and the almost complete lack of anything actually happening was good storytelling. Engage in the discussion.

That was the best they could do for a season 2 season opener?  A season premiere is supposed to hook new viewers and keep the fans sticking around.

They failed. 

It wasn't horrible, just so fucking boring, and they flipped the script on some of the rules from season 1, the fuck is that all about? 

I don't even care what happens next week.  Just so bloody meh it was painful.  Stupid characters, stupid decisions, stupid pacing...oh, and that opening monologue?  I almost started laughing.

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Originally Posted by Ambler 

That was the best they could do for a season 2 season opener?  A season premiere is supposed to hook new viewers and keep the fans sticking around.

 

They failed. 

 

I wouldn't go this far.  I'd say for the most part, fans are sticking around for zombie carnage, and despite the bloated Lost-esque 'walk from point A to point B to point C' sequences, this episode delivered.  

I watched The Talking Dead show and would have sat through the whole thing had it not been so late. They had James Gunn on there. It was entertaining enough and it's cool to see such fanboy-ism in the mainstream. Don't think that it should be an every week type of thing.

I like to play spot the celebrity zombie when watching. The one they did the autopsy on was Zombie Tom Petty. Last season, Zombie Kevin Bacon was featured heavily in the promos.

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Originally Posted by Agent Z 

Thinking more on it, I like Rick's plea to the Jesus statue, cause it makes the final punchline just that much punchier.

I don't know if it was from the comic or what, but I liked that I expected a happy ending to the episode with them finding Carol's daughter alive and well, but instead we don't find the girl, plus the only other kid gets unexpectedly shot. Jesus must really hate them! Seriously though, that's pretty mean. I want more of that type of thing this season.

So T-Dawg is still alive I take it? I'll tune in the moment that guy gets eaten. 

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Originally Posted by Navidson 

 It was entertaining enough and it's cool to see such fanboy-ism in the mainstream.

I disagree.  Maybe if it was in the support of a superior product, but damn why the fuck can these people not come out for Terriers or the like.

I would also like to hear more about Kirkman supposedly rewriting portions of the premiere.  First I've heard of this.

I'm sorry, but that zombie horde should of smelled that dumbasses freshly cut artery.

And two monologues to a Jesus statue? Uuugh.

So you stab a zombie in the eye repeatly with a screw driver, zombie blood flying everywhere and what happens if any lands in your mouth or eyes?  Is this virus only transferable by biting?  

Oh and I'm not hiding under a car as a horde or Zombies walks by. 

Fans are undoubtedly excited for the start of The walking dead season 2, but there also many questions handing over this season, in light of show runner Frank Darabont being fired from the series.  Darabont was the driving force behind the show, and a major reason why season one of The Walking Dead was a hit. While it remains to be seen how the show will fare without Darabont influencing future episodes, fans of the acclaimed director can rest comfortably in the knowledge that he crafted the first part of season 2.

Anyone happen to know the pedigrees of his replacements or the holdovers? Cause I don't trust Kirkman.

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Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick 

So you stab a zombie in the eye repeatly with a screw driver, zombie blood flying everywhere and what happens if any lands in your mouth or eyes?  Is this virus only transferable by biting?  

 

The only thing that makes sense at this point is that the virus/infection/whatever is spread through biting, so/....saliva? Do zombies even have saliva?  The show established, by empirical experimenting, that simply having the blood on you isn't enough. Rick and Glenn (I think  it was Glenn) smeared themselves with zombiegoo back in S1, with no ill effects other than seared nostril lining. 

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Originally Posted by Navidson 

Anyone happen to know the pedigrees of his replacements or the holdovers? Cause I don't trust Kirkman.

Glenn Mazzara, co-creator and writer of The Shield. Not too shaby if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by MichaelM 

 

The only thing that makes sense at this point is that the virus/infection/whatever is spread through biting, so/....saliva? Do zombies even have saliva?  The show established, by empirical experimenting, that simply having the blood on you isn't enough. Rick and Glenn (I think  it was Glenn) smeared themselves with zombiegoo back in S1, with no ill effects other than seared nostril lining. 

Yeah, I find it weird that blood contamination doesn't seem to be much of a concern, especially in this episode.

There were:

Multiple up-close zombie kills where the people doing the killing don't seem to even care about closing their mouths during the spatter.

T-Dog hiding under a freshly killed oozing zombie while he has a gaping wound in his arm.

Zombie autopsy... I was almost expecting the zombie's stomach to burst all over them when Darryl first cut into it.  During the autopsy it looked like they were wearing some kind of workman gloves, but afterwards where do they put the gore covered gloves?

I enjoyed the episode though.  The freeway herd scene was tense, though I found it funny that such a large herd of slow moving zombies could be so close up on them that fast, while they were using scopes and binoculars to spot them.

Too bad we can't get 90 minutes every week :/

Wow. I have never felt to so completely at odds with what the prevailing wisdom around here seems to be. I thought the season premiere was really riveting. Lack of character development? What the hell are you guys talking about? In this episode alone we saw:

That Daryl is willing to save a guy who he thinks punked his brother for the good of the group.

That the people who can't protect themselves and their families hold Rick responsible to do so.

That Rick totally shoulders that responsibility but feels secretly unable to do do.

That Laurie admires her husband and is willing to lay down the law to any who doubt him.

That Shane is willing to take the high road and leave for the betterment of Laurie and Carl.

That Andrea is willing to throwdown with Shane if it means absolving herself of any personal responsibility towards her self preservation.

And that was just off the top of my head. There were TONS of good character beats, great zombie moments (that veiled zombie in the church was fucking CHILLING), the episode was tense as hell and the end was fantastic. This is how I want the show to be. I don't want them achieving goal after goal like it's a fucking video game, I want their world to be constantly bogged down because they are flawed human beings dealing with a goddamned zombie apocalypse! IMO Sunday's episode was as good as zombie fiction gets. I utterly do not know what some of you are expecting from this.

The show has some flaws, no argument. The opening monologue was clunky ( though I though the Jesus statue monologue was aces). The "rules" concerning the zombie's sense of smell is a little vague (but those "rules" are entirely conjecture on the character's part, we actually know nothing for sure about how the zombies behave). But Christ on a cracker, the way some of you are talking about the show blows my mind! I can't help but feel like you guys are reacting to the hype and not looking for anything you like here, saying shit that is just not true, like, "There's no character development!" There IS, big time. You are literally making up crap so you can hate on it. 

I have to respectfully disagree with your calling these character building moments. They are, at best, glimpses of character growth or depth, but it's never in depth and often nonsensical or at odds with what we've already seen of the character.

That Daryl is willing to save a guy who he thinks punked his brother for the good of the group.

I agree that this was a revelation....that was never subsequently followed up on. Daryl seems to have chilled somewhat, but we have zero insight into how it happened, how deep it goes, etc. I'm more concerned that Daryl's become the tame wolf of the group (I stole that phrase - either from here or another board).

That the people who can't protect themselves and their families hold Rick responsible to do so.

How is this development? Rick was already in the leader position by the middle of S1. 

That Rick totally shoulders that responsibility but feels secretly unable to do do.

I'm willing to concede this, but I don't think it's been particularly well done.

That Laurie admires her husband and is willing to lay down the law to any who doubt him.

This has been in place since the beginning. Not growth or development. And Laurie's behavior towards Shane continues to be dumb and irritating.

That Shane is willing to take the high road and leave for the betterment of Laurie and Carl.

My impression is that it has far less to do with the high road and more because Shane finds watching them being together intolerable. I guess "leaving so I don't shoot my best friend to keep screwing his wife" is the high road, but it seems a bit weak to call it that.

That Andrea is willing to throwdown with Shane if it means absolving herself of any personal responsibility towards her self preservation.

I don't even know what to make of Andrea's words and actions in this episode. They don't seem very consistent, smart or well done. The whole speech at Dale seemed very retconned simply to introduce friction, rather than being true to the interaction we saw between them in the S1 finale. We already knew Andrea's tough and willing to do what's necessary. She already killed her own zombified sister. Again, I don't see growth here.

But even over all these matters, my biggest problem with the episode is that it took so long to do so little. It's like they read the last two George R R Martin books and are using that model for storytelling. Wrapping 10-15 minutes of actual plot-forwarding with 50 minutes of wheel spinning.

Not trying to be a dick towards Sebastian, just really disagree that the episode was well done.

God, skimming this thread is infuriating. People nitpicking zombie "rules" (one of the most annoying OCD nerd behaviors), expecting characters in a fucking zombie apocalypse to behave entirely rationally at all times (I would love to see how some of you behave in a crisis. One guess: NOT RATIONALLY) and people citing the show for flaws it doesn't actually have. Seriously, I would LOVE to discuss the good and bad points of this show with people who are reacting to a ZOMBIE TELEVISION SHOW reasonably, but I'm not finding those types of reactions here. Please, label me as an "apologist" for the show so you can dismiss me. I don't care. 

Michael, I cited numerous moments where we see character work (and OK, maybe not every case is some huge leap forward in "development", but WE ARE LEARNING MORE about these characters with each moment) and you are basically just flat out dismissing them. There were more character beats in this episode than your average episode of MAD MEN (not to say that WALKING DEAD is better than MAD MEN, it isn't), but no one sits around nitpicking that they didn't learn enough about Don Fucking Draper (a character you literally learn nothing about for episodes at a time) each time an episode comes out. WHAT ARE THE STANDARDS we are measuring this show up to? If it's zombie fiction, the show measures up. If it's cable television drama - it's a solid B, not as good as top tier show like MAD MEN or BREAKING BAD, but Christ, it's as good as something like SONS OF ANARCHY, TRUE BLOOD (waaaaaaaaay better IMO) or DEXTER which I consider "genre" shows.

And as far as plotting, the congested highway is the perfect metaphor for what these people are dealing with. Their world is roadblocks, you aren't going to see tons of ground and plot covered in very episode. That isn't how this environment works. I don't want it to work that way! It's about dealing with the minutia of survival. People need to stop expecting fast paced plotting, it is not how the show works!

Sebastian...you are my hero. I agree 110%.

Speaking of plotting, what's up with RV rooftop DeMunn (w/ binoculars) not seeing the zombie herd until they are like 8 feet away? It's dumb shit like that that takes me out of the show. But by no means ruins the show for me, Sebastian OB! Don't worry!

I guess where you're seeing insight, I'm seeing either "we already knew that" or "more, please." I dunno. I'll have to watch the episode again, and see if it lands differently. We're arguing perception here - I don't disagree that we had a lot of nice character moments, just that they add up to anything. And it may be my growing dislike for some of the characters is coloring my ability to see depth versus likability. (E.g., Laurie's stupid "this is a graveyard" pronouncement about the highway.)

Let me also say again: the zombie effects were damn awesome. Whatever growth pangs the show's writers and producers are having, the production value for the show remains excellent.

(Also: Veiled Zombie Lady was creepy as fuck. Well done!)

Lastly, I'll ask again: did anyone else seem to think that the Preacher Zombie looked more....aware....than other walkers? And that the church seemed like a clever trap? Could the zombies be getting smarter?

OK, let's take the character of Andrea. In the last episode, the season finale (which I admit was a TERRIBLE season finale. This episode would have been a good finale) we learned that Andrea wants to die. But Dale won't let her. This episode we learn that Dale thinks he saved her life - but Andrea doesn't see it that way. She feels that all Dale did was prolong her life for the sake of an inevitable, more horrible conclusion ( Which we actually SEE illustrated in a great scene where a kick-ass zombie stalks her in the RV). He took away her free will, and he's continuing to do so. Not only that, but the way she sees it, she actually saved HIS life. Either way, she's sick of this shit. She's sick of the group dictating what she gets to do, which is sort of ironic later when Dale himself lies about the radiator hose to avoid "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" arguments. So in this episode we learn things about Andrea and Dale. And they are just two characters in an ensemble piece.

I get that for you it wasn't enough, but frankly I think for you expect more than that on an episode by episode basis, considering what type of fiction this show is, is asking too much. I think a big part of the schism in perception here is that people aren't taking this as a genre show, and genre dictates different things than straight drama. and believe me, for genre, they are giving you A LOT in the way of character development. Hell, half the people are complaining that there's not enough action! Not even the complaints have any real consistency. 

I'd say the complaints have some consistency. I do see the point that some people are kicking at the show relentlessly. And I can understand how that frustrates the people who love love love it. But there are real fucking problems with this show, IN MY OPINION. And I'm a horror fan. And am excited by a weekly, serialized zombie show like the rest. (Hell, I didn't miss an episode of Harper's Island.) But to come in here and just swipe at all the complaints. Or say, "Hey, if you don't like it, don't watch it" (which seems to be a mantra by those heralding the show), well :::shrugs. I'll keep watching, thank you very much. I'll keep waiting for the show to gel into something fantastic. I hope it does.  

I see that the show isn't perfect. Like I said, I put it on the "B" tier for cable TV shows. For me, it is on par with DEXTER. But reactions are WAY OUT OF WHACK. You have to admit this. People are saying that the show SUCKS, which I cannot wrap my head around at all. What sort of zombie movies do these people watch? What sort of TV shows? Apparently nothing but the absolute creme-de-la-creme, because Christ, judged by those standards this show is solid and involving entertainment.

EDIT: I'm glad that Frank Darabont is gone now solely for the fact that people won't be able to trot out the "I expect more from Frank Darabont, this should be Shawshank with zombies!" argument. Well Frank is gone. Now you can expect it to be the Shield with zombies or some shit.

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Originally Posted by MichaelM 

Lastly, I'll ask again: did anyone else seem to think that the Preacher Zombie looked more....aware....than other walkers? And that the church seemed like a clever trap? Could the zombies be getting smarter?

Well, it was established waaay back in the pilot with Wifezombie, that the zombies retain some fragment of their memory/humanity. She keeps coming back to the house, we don't know if it's memory or what. The Preacher Zombie is just taking that idea a step further, into Land of the Dead territory where the zombies are seen doing more human-like activities, probably tied to whatever memories they have left.

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Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

....which is sort of ironic later when Dale himself lies about the radiator hose to avoid "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" arguments. 

 

I get that for you it wasn't enough, but frankly I think for you expect more than that on an episode by episode basis, considering what type of fiction this show is, is asking too much. I think a big part of the schism in perception here is that people aren't taking this as a genre show, and genre dictates different things than straight drama. and believe me, for genre, they are giving you A LOT in the way of character development. Hell, half the people are complaining that there's not enough action! Not even the complaints have any real consistency. 

Completely forgot about Dale's little bit of civil disobedience there. That, I grant you, was a great moment and the exact sort of thing I like. Andrea's tirade just felt....off to me. Dunno. I'll try not to get too Ebert-y on the show (criticizing it for not being what I want it to be rather than what it is), but I still find the opener underwhelming. Not awful, not super-sucky. Just kind of...meh.

However, your point about seeing it for a genre show is well worth considering. This isn't Downton Abbey, and isn't meant to be. 
 

THANK YOU MICHAEL. I can always count on you for reasonable debate. And trust me, I'll be the first to complain when the show makes obvious missteps, like the stupid CDC bullshit from last season. And the name T-Dog continues to be cringe-worthy. And some of Rick's monologues are grating. And Laurie needs to stop being an unlikeable bitch (though I felt a little more sympathy for her this episode. A little.) There are plenty of complaints I understand.

So, basically, you're like almost everyone in here. You have complaints about the show but still watch it.

No, I like the show a lot. I don't notice a lot of the things people complain about here until after the fact. While I'm watching it, I'm pretty much on board for the whole ride. Except when someone says "T-Dog." I am a real fan of the show, but I can admit that there's some room for improvement. I think that's a little different than "I think this show sucks but I'm watching it so I can complain", which is a pretty large faction of viewers if the internet is an accurate representation.

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Originally Posted by UrchineSLICE 

Glenn Mazzara, co-creator and writer of The Shield. Not too shaby if you ask me.

I'm pretty sure Mazzara did not co-create The Shield.

Preacher Zombie was actually a friend of mine, worked with him on a bunch of student films. Good to see him not only get a close up, but also get stabbed in the face by the main character! Go Steve! 

And on a character note that Sebastian raised: is it that Laurie truly admires her husband, or that she's compensating for screwing his best friend in Rick's absence? I'm guess it's a mixture of both, but the onscreen performance suggests to me that Laurie's TEAM RICK attitude has a lot to do with wanting to prove to herself she's a good wife again, and has less to do with Rick's actual character ("character" here meaning his integrity, trustworthiness, etc., and not the role/person in the show).

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Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick 

Speaking of plotting, what's up with RV rooftop DeMunn (w/ binoculars) not seeing the zombie herd until they are like 8 feet away? It's dumb shit like that that takes me out of the show. But by no means ruins the show for me, Sebastian OB! Don't worry!

I will reiterate that I really really like the show, but I did get a kick out of this:

http://videogum.com/393602/the-walking-dead-s02e01-one-child-left-behind/tv/recaps/

Also liked this from the comments:

Who's "Laurie"? It's "Lori", still...

I kid because it's a season under the belt and people are still confusing this, oddly enough.

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Originally Posted by Agent Z 

Who's "Laurie"? It's "Lori", still...

 

I kid because it's a season under the belt and people are still confusing this, oddly enough.

In fairness, you wouldn't know that unless you read the comic or looked it up on IMDB. I knew it though so I have no excuse.

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Originally Posted by MichaelM 

And on a character note that Sebastian raised: is it that Laurie truly admires her husband, or that she's compensating for screwing his best friend in Rick's absence? I'm guess it's a mixture of both, but the onscreen performance suggests to me that Laurie's TEAM RICK attitude has a lot to do with wanting to prove to herself she's a good wife again, and has less to do with Rick's actual character ("character" here meaning his integrity, trustworthiness, etc., and not the role/person in the show).

I agree with this, and even if she was firmly TEAM RICK in this episode, I imagine that's going to change dramatically about 5 minutes into the next episode.

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Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

In fairness, you wouldn't know that unless you read the comic or looked it up on IMDB. I knew it though so I have no excuse.

 

DAMN YOU SEBASTIAN! Leading me astray with your fancy arguments, only to have your real aim in my propagating incorrect character name spelling. Jerk!

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Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

In fairness, you wouldn't know that unless you read the comic or looked it up on IMDB. I knew it though so I have no excuse.

 

I never looked it up. It was just the way they pronounced it. It seemed obvious, but I know some people probably pronounce both the same way.

Android won't post on here for some reason.... but I had been trying to say since Sunday that it was kind of a meh starter. All the juicy bits were spoiled with the promos and extended scenes during other AMC shows. Hopefully the 2nd episode picks up a lot more.

Dig the posts tho, good readin'

I wasn't crazy about the first season, which declined steadily after a really good pilot, but I was still hoping the show would improve, especially after reading positive reviews for the season opener. Nope.

This show reminds me in ways of TNT's Falling Skies . . . a genre that excites me, a decent cast and production values, and absolutely no interesting characters to speak of, with the bland pleasantries exchanged by the characters on Falling Skies replaced with bland bickering. I don't give a shit about any of these people, no matter how much they weep, bicker, scream, bicker, fight and bicker some more.

Finally watched the Season 2 opener last night.  I thought it was really good, but it kinda felt like a 60-minute episode wrapped in a 90-minute package.  I understand atmospheric pacing, and all, but after the "herd" scene it should have ramped up to a more exciting climax.  Or, rather, it should have ramped up the pace so that we could better appreciate the slowdown in the scene with the deer.  Peaks and valleys, y'all.  Show's gotta be about more than finding new ways to quietly bash a random walker's brains in. 

The ep definitely reeked of "let's make it longer so we can make more $$ on ads," which is why we got an overlong, repetitive Andrea/Dale "I'm keeping your gun" scene and two prayers to Jesus.  Or three, if you count Daryl's "nod to 'JC.'"  

Anyway, I'm definitely not ready to dismiss the show.  I even liked the not-so-great episodes in the latter half of Season 1.  We'll see, though, if the ship rights itself once the season gets rolling and we're beyond whatever the creative differences were with Darabont.  The potential for greatness is still there.  We just need some variety.  And maybe more of a logical gameplan for the group beyond "lets drive somewhere."