The Walking Dead Season 2 (AMC) - Page 33

well whoever won the Hyundai in the Walking Dead contest, I hope they use it to do donuts and hang out the side like Glen shooting people with water guns.

This finale wasn't as cool as I thought it would be, but hooded sword person with the chains is enough for anybody to stick around for season 3.

Hooded sword person with chains might be enough to drop the whole thing, actually. Such a fucking irritating fantasy character.

Best line of the night went to Daryl: "I could tell it was an Asian driving." THAT'S the white-supremacist Daryl we all know and loved.

Second-best line actually went to Hershel, of all people: "Jesus promised us the resurrection of the dead. I just...I thought he had something a little different in mind."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather 

Hooded sword person with chains might be enough to drop the whole thing, actually. Such a fucking irritating fantasy character.

I know of the character only from various references online. I know NOTHING about the actual character (such as the why/how the chaining of the walkers). While I agree that it seems tonally really, really different from the show so far, I'm more than willing to see what's done with it. The world's been turned topsy turvy*, and our little band has seen precious little of how much the old order's been overturned so far. Or what the virus makes possible and impossible.

The blatant fantastic tone of this character could break the show. But I'm excited to see if they can incorporate it without doing so.

*Cue Egg Shenn's "Black blood of the earth" speech.

I'd rather they break the tone of the show if it leads to something interesting.

I don't think a masturbatory katana-carrying female badass can lead to anything interesting.

They needed to explode the farmhouse like they did the CDC last season. Just imagine how awesome it would've been if Herschel, having been surrounded, set his shotgun to overload and took out the horde/farmhouse so that the group could get a away.

Basically just re-use the ending of Predator. Laugh and all.

I think the public at large will take to Sword Chick. But to any genre veteran it's a make or break element depending on personal tastes.

Could be that the show needs a character who doesn't have a serious emotional breakdown every other episode. But if the actress comes off as a lightweight playing the badass, it'll be hard going.

What I like about the potential of the character is that, up until now, the main characters have been in the sort of mindset that they just need to hunker down and ride this out. Michonne brings in the idea that other people have accepted the zombies are here to stay, there's no cavalry coming, so it's time to start adapting to the new reality.  Again, that's all potential, but I think it's an interesting way to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamclane99 

All kinds of pumped for next season. The prison storyline was my favorite from the booksm and they were their for a long time. I really think season 3 will take place entirely at the prison.

Oh joy.  They handled being at the farm so well.  No more zombie truobles, just humans. Sarah Callies will come full circle.  Annoying gf Sara to Scofield and now annoying wife to Rick.  Please tell me she dies in the prison. 

The idea of the katana wielding, zombie leading chick is something the show needs. Ridiculous or not, she's someone who gets shit done. She's not killing zombies as a defense mechanism, she's out to kill. She's not whining and complaining and telling this dude to kill that dude and then goes all crazy when one of the dudes actually does kill the other dude (I assume, at least). Like Dickson says, she's adapting to the new reality. Again, all in theory, but after all the time spent in one place, it'll at least be nice to have someone who isn't in a group and can move about without it being such a big fucking deal. Again, know nothing of the character so it's all supposition.

Also, reality, shmeality. If you survived long enough into a zombie apocalypse, wouldn't you start getting weird and fucking things up with a machete? What the hell else are you going to do? Oh wait, I know, the first 2 seasons of The Walking Dead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel 

Oh joy.  They handled being at the farm so well.  No more zombie truobles, just humans. Sarah Callies will come full circle.  Annoying gf Sara to Scofield and now annoying wife to Rick.  Please tell me she dies in the prison. 

Tell me you've been drinking because I don't?wut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Murder 

If you really think that's an option then you're stupider than any character or writer on this show.

Well, you're clearly an asshole. You've been blocked, just so you know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelM 

Agreed with Richard. I think Rick's turn was very well done in the show, and I completely bought it.  He's been trying to the honorable, benevolent and actively listening leader for a long while now, and basically all he's getting in return is sniping and people telling him he's weak and indecisive and that he can't protect them. After the shootout in the bar, Rick started steeling himself and becoming less sentimental and less willing to put up with bullshit. 

 

I think Lori's outrage made sense....if you knew what the writers were trying to convey. She's a character they've simply not done well by, in consistency and clarity.

 

While the characters didn't explicitly cite this as a reason, it seemed obvious that the herd of zombies wasn't the only reason for not going back. The mass attack revealed how indefensible the farm is, and they don't want to be trapped or stuck somewhere like that again. They pretty much say as much at the end of last night's episode - they wanted somewhere they could fortify and defend, somewhere they could reasonably expect to hold in the case of another all-out attack.

But in a situation where your alternative is hanging out on the side of the road, what's better? You could just regroup at the farmhouse and then decide to fortify it, or carry out an organized search for a better place to be. The idea that the farm is indefensible, and is therefore useless to them, doesn't work since it's clearly far more defensible than any other option they're aware of and has easily sustained them for months with the only accidents happening when they leave. Even the final takeover is caused by an outrageously unlikely coincidence -- that unusually huge horde happened to be passing at the moment Rick and Shane were having their mutual meltdown. You can see the writers stretching all over the place to cover up their shoddy plot.

I know Rick's turn is somewhat motivated by what happened with Shane, but it didn't work for me in the moment. It felt totally out of left field and elicited more laughs from me than whatever emotion it was actually supposed to evoke -- especially since he seemed more or less normal and level-headed in scenes that came directly before, reuniting with his family and being happy, etc. It's a symptom of a broader problem, which is that the audience is unsure what any character's deal is at any given time. They seem to want totally different things from episode to episode, and sometimes from scene to scene. They're just tools tailored by the writers to fortify the contrived situations they concoct every week, character consistency be damned.

second...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather 

I don't think a masturbatory katana-carrying female badass can lead to anything interesting.

Really? I don't know, maybe this is what this show needs after this band of survivors not really learning anything from their experiences. In this world, with limited supplies of ammo and slow moving corposes chasing you, getting around with a sword seems like a great idea

I'm kind of looking forward to meet more survivors who have adapted more to this world, because these guys we've been following haven't.

third...

and fourth! Sorry, guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMulder 

dub post

Quad post

In such an extreme situation as a zombie fucking apocalypse, what would be so outrageous about a bad-ass hooded chick with a katana and two leashed walkers??  We're already accepting the premise that THE DEAD ARE COMING BACK TO LIFE TO EAT THE LIVING for chrissakes! 

Really, this far into this apocalypse, one would imagine that a great many of the survivors out there would have taken to extreme methods to stay alive.  Guns run out of bullets and are loud, a katana is silent and never needs to be reloaded.  Having two harmless walkers on each side of you (no arms or jaws) would help one blend into the scenery, with the hood hiding any "dead giveaway" signs (pun intended) that she's a breather.  It makes sense to me in the context of the show.

And it's fucking awesome, too.

To bitch about THAT of all things is just silly.  It comes across as a pathological need to find SOMETHING to bitch about in regards to this show. It has DRASTICALLY improved since s1. When it's "too slow" ya bitch. When it's too "over the top" ya bitch.  When a cool new character shows up, ya bitch.  Jesus on a pogo stick!  Just. Stop. Watching.  This show will NEVER make you happy and your only enjoyment of it springs from ripping it on-line, it's so fucking lame.

For those who haven't read/aren't familiar with the comic and don't mind being spoiled, the chained walkers with Michonne:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjin 

 

And it's fucking awesome, too.

 

To bitch about THAT of all things is just silly.  It comes across as a pathological need to find SOMETHING to bitch about in regards to this show. It has DRASTICALLY improved since s1. When it's "too slow" ya bitch. When it's too "over the top" ya bitch.  When a cool new character shows up, ya bitch.  Jesus on a pogo stick

In such an extreme situation as a zombie fucking apocalypse, what would be so outrageous about a bad-ass hooded chick with a katana and two leashed walkers??  We're already accepting the premise that THE DEAD ARE COMING BACK TO LIFE TO EAT THE LIVING for chrissakes! 

 

Really, this far into this apocalypse, one would imagine that a great many of the survivors out there would have taken to extreme methods to stay alive.  Guns run out of bullets and are loud, a katana is silent and never needs to be reloaded.  Having two harmless walkers on each side of you (no arms or jaws) would help one blend into the scenery, with the hood hiding any "dead giveaway" signs (pun intended) that she's a breather.  It makes sense to me in the context of the show.

 

 Just. Stop. Watching.  This show will NEVER make you happy and your only enjoyment of it springs from ripping it on-line, it's so fucking lame.

I like the show, you ninny. Please pay attention to who holds what opinion in here.

It's the fucking katana, a fanboy pandering weapon if ever there was one, that irritates me. She might as well be carrying the fucking Glaive. There's a way to do "adapting to Walkers" without introducing a geek-baiting superheroic badass into the mix.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelM 

*Cue Egg Shenn's "Black blood of the earth" speech.

alternate ending to last nights episode...

as Rick and the survivors are on the road, getting ready to rest for the night, all of a sudden a big semi-truck comes over a hill and barreling down the road toward them. The truck stops just before them and the driver jumps out and says-

"....everyone relax, I'm here....my name's Jack Burton"

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMulder 

But in a situation where your alternative is hanging out on the side of the road, what's better? You could just regroup at the farmhouse and then decide to fortify it, or carry out an organized search for a better home base from that location. The idea that the farm is indefensible, and is therefore useless to them, doesn't work since it's clearly far more defensible than any other option they're aware of and has easily sustained them for months. The only accidents happen when they leave. Even the final takeover is caused by an outrageously unlikely coincidence -- that unusually huge horde happened to be passing at the moment Rick and Shane were having their mutual meltdown. You can see the writers stretching all over the place to cover up their shoddy plot.

 

I see what you're saying, and I think it has merit. Agreed that leaving farm and saying WE CAN NEVER EVER GO BACK isn't the brightest position to take....but Our Gang has hardly proven to be the sharpest knives in the drawer, yes? 

However, I can see any of the group being very, very gun shy about going back. Walkers, as far as we know, are mindless, and don't travel with a purpose (other than eating), and if I were among the living, I'd be pretty afraid that the remaining walkers were still milling around near the farm.

Despite the seemingly ridiculous string of coincidences with the helicopter, gun shot, etc., I actually like seeing the random/non-deliberate forming and movement of the walker herd. History and battles are littered with really strange, unlikely chains of events and coincidences, and since we're watching a show about a world infected with zombies, I'm more than OK with some amusing and weird events leading to things like the herd attack on the farm.

I agree that the writing, for the most part, has varied wildly in both quality and portrayed motivations and characterization. Rick, though, I think has been well done, especially this season (and especially the second half). Perfectly? No. But within an acceptable and believable (for me) arc? Yes.

NPC #1: Chomped in bus by zombies with a taste for NPC blood.

NPC #2: Chomped by zombies by house with a taste for NPC blood.

Jenner's whispered secret to Rick: "Don't have NPC blood in the season 2 finale."

I thought that despite some good show-building moments throughout the season that this finale was actively bad.

From the who gives a shit zombie shuffle that began the show to Rick's inexplicable hardened turn that ended the show, it kept on truckin' with the suckin'. It just seems like every single decision is the wrong one.

"Carl, we've waited 10 minutes. We need to leave the rendezvous point and.....oh, wait, here comes everyone at the same time."

Andrea outruns and outguns zombies forever. Killing and evading, she makes it through ALL of them and THEN has to be saved from the very last one so you can intro Raiden?

Rick, who does everything in his power to protect the group, withholds this: "If someone dies of food poisoning or old age or something, you may want to not be sitting by the body." And as the only one who knows this possible truth, he was even blindsided by zombie Shane somehow. 

Maggie: "We just left my entire family to die. WE HAVE TO GO BACK!! I can't leave them!!!"

Glenn: "Maggie, I love you."

Han: "I know."

     Quote:

Originally Posted by JMulder 

I know Rick's turn is somewhat motivated by what happened with Shane, but it didn't work for me in the moment. It felt totally out of left field and elicited more laughs from me than whatever emotion it was actually supposed to evoke -- especially since he seemed more or less normal and level-headed in scenes that came directly before, reuniting with his family and being happy, etc. It's a symptom of a broader problem, which is that the audience is unsure what any character's deal is at any given time. They seem to want totally different things from episode to episode, and sometimes from scene to scene. They're just tools tailored by the writers to fortify the contrived situations they concoct every week, character consistency be damned.

For myself at least, one of my favorite parts of last night's episode was the culmination of everyone taking Rick for granted. All season long, everybody shits on him behind his back when he falls short, while treating his successes as if they're to be expected.

In the tension of being trapped outside without shelter on the side of the road, the sniping finally got to the point where it carried on with Rick in earshot. And after swallowing shit from ever since Sophia ran off, he finally said turned around and basically said, "Nut up or shut up. You think you can do better? Feel free to hit the road and take your chances. But if you're going to look to me for the all the answers, you're going to do what I say, and you're going to shut the fuck up about it."

I thought it very telling that the one person who has consistently nutted-up all series long -- Daryl -- is also the one person who's never had anything bad to say about Rick. He's seen a lot of disappointing alpha-males over the years, and he knows a good one when he sees one. Rick's always treated him with respect, and he's going to return the favor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick 

Andrea outruns and outguns zombies forever. Killing and evading, she makes it through ALL of them and THEN has to be saved from the very last one so you can intro Raiden?

 

Really? She was clearly running out of ammo and getting super tired, I don't know what so fantastical about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjin 

Really, this far into this apocalypse, one would imagine that a great many of the survivors out there would have taken to extreme methods to stay alive.  Guns run out of bullets and are loud, a katana is silent and never needs to be reloaded.  Having two harmless walkers on each side of you (no arms or jaws) would help one blend into the scenery, with the hood hiding any "dead giveaway" signs (pun intended) that she's a breather.  It makes sense to me in the context of the show.

So the zombie pets? I have a question. Sure, she's removed their arms and jaws so they can't bite or scratch. That makes sense. What keeps them from still trying to attack her? They don't care about the missing arms and teeth. They're driven by the need to eat, they don't think any more. They don't become sullen and kick the ground in impotent anger becasue they've been effectively neutered. They'll still try to gnaw at her, right? 

I'm sure her general badassness keeps them in check.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica 

Quote:

Really? She was clearly running out of ammo and getting super tired, I don't know what so fantastical about that.

What bothered me about it is that it had to be the very last one....for DRAMATIC purpose, I guess. And that, after all she overcame, still had to be fucking saved.

 I enjoyed the finale just because there was more fighting with zombies. It spoke my id I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick 

 

What bothered me about it is that it had to be the very last one....for DRAMATIC purpose, I guess. And that, after all she overcame, still had to be fucking saved.

Maybe it should bother me more, but it's a last minute dramatic introduction of a character ... it is a fictional TV show after all.

Last few episodes were starting to get me on board again, but this one was just a fucking mess. 

And that last shot... It's been explained now, but I don't think I've ever been as confused by the final shot of a finale, same with the kitana-weilding badass. Andrew Lincoln has yet to prove he deserves to headline this show. His range of facial expressions while confessing to Lori had me rolling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evi 

Andrew Lincoln has yet to prove he deserves to headline this show. His range of facial expressions while confessing to Lori had me rolling.

He might have been served better had he just used his tried and true Love, Actually method instead:

     Quote:

Laurie Holden even discussed this very aspect at length on Talking Dead immediately afterward -- "You notice how Andrea's panting, out-of-breath, and exhausted? That was me, in real life, for five straight days of shooting," or words to that effect. She (Andrea) was clearly down to her last reserves.

Speaking of, I'm now wondering if it was Michonne who'd holed up in that abandoned house where Daryl found signs of someone recently living when he was hunting for Sophia. After all, someone had to eat that can of tuna, or whatever it was.

     Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelM 

I agree that the writing, for the most part, has varied wildly in both quality and portrayed motivations and characterization. Rick, though, I think has been well done, especially this season (and especially the second half). Perfectly? No. But within an acceptable and believable (for me) arc? Yes.

It's been an interesting season, from a writing standpoint. The last few episodes fully under Glen Mazzara definitely had a different feel. There are plusses and minuses to the approaches of both showrunners.

Frank Darabont's tenure had better characterization, in my opinion. The story flowed from the characters, rather than the characters being manipulated to serve the demands of the story. With the exception of Sophia running off, there weren't many of the major headscratcher-moments that have become too common in the last few episodes. On the other hand, the pacing was almost mind-numbingly slow without enough payoff.

Glen Mazzara's tenure feels more like conventional television. As heavily-arced as the show still is, each episode feels like an episode, rather than another chunk of an ongoing, very long movie. Moments like Dale's death happen because the show's looking for an emotional punch, rather than evolving naturally. The dialogue doesn't have the same grace to it.

On the other hand, the pacing is far more engaging, and the tone is much grittier. You feel the desperation in a way you didn't even in the first season, except when Rick got trapped in the tank. He's burning through story faster, which makes each episode more of an edge-of-your-seat affair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evi 

Lincoln has yet to prove he deserves to headline this show. His range of facial expressions while confessing to Lori had me rolling.

He really does suck. He's had two seasons to prove himself too! Such an uninteresting and artificial lead. Watching that breakdown after knifing Shane was like watching Chris Klein doing an impression of Walton Goggins in the Shield season 5 finale. Of course, the writing, the accent, the weird mannerisms, none of that shit helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather 

Herschel sat the vote out. He was still licking his wounds - he's been licking his wounds since the barn shootout. He's happy to follow Rick's lead now, a point that's been reinforced again and again since the restart.

 

And come on, killing a guy that was taking potshots at members of their group versus their anointed leader gutting his best friend and the group's most obvious alpha male? You don't see the difference there? Because they were reluctantly willing to execute someone who was a threat to them they should be totally cool with members of their own little society shanking each other?

 

As others have said, this show has massive, hilarious problems. But you're reaching on these ones.

The difference I see is that they knew Shane had done shady shit. They had no evidence that what's-his-butt had actually done anything wrong. And even if he had done something wrong, is killing him the go-to solution? No middle ground? Just an execution?
 

A sword is a SUPER dumb zombie weapon.  It would always get stuck inside skulls which makes taking on groups much harder, it would constantly threaten to be broken(in real life blades break), and frankly something blunt like a metal baseball bat is MUCH wiser.

If you think a katana is a good zombie weapon you live in a warner bros cartoon version of the zombie apocolypse where heads fly off shoulders like a jet engine.

Here's what I want to know- if Dale was stil alive, would he give Rick a pat on the back for putting Shane down, or would he be shooting a classic "HAVE YOU NO DECENCY SIR" Dale stare?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disciple_72 

Here's what I want to know- if Dale was stil alive, would he give Rick a pat on the back for putting Shane down, or would he be shooting a classic "HAVE YOU NO DECENCY SIR" Dale stare?

 

 

That's actually a great question, and it's the type of drama I thought the show was building towards. But then they killed the two people representing the sides of that coin. In order. And all Rick could say about it was "SHUT UP, I'M IN CONTROL!"

I'm with Parker.  Yes, some of the zombie action was cool, and yes, every episode (or at least every other episode) should have just as much of it, but the hamfisted characterizations (aside from Daryl) and facepalm-inducing depiction of women just made my gums ache.  I liked the hooded badass lady and hope that bodes well for season 3.  I'll still watch and hope they send all their writers to English 101 classes. 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeman 

If you think a katana is a good zombie weapon you live in a warner bros cartoon version of the zombie apocolypse where heads fly off shoulders like a jet engine.

This is a zombie-holocaust I'd pay money to see. Now I'm gonna be disappointed if it never gets made.

Also:

Ratings numbers set a new record last night.

Others are much better at articulating my problems with this show, especially Kevin Matchstick.  There's so much laziness in the writing and characterization that I'm seriously going to consider jumping ship before season 3 hits.  What I'll probably do is a marathon run of both seasons in the next few months with the benefit of a straight run to see if the show is a little more tolerable in large chunks.

I like Carol. I want her to live. 

I enjoyed how T-Dog tried to abscond with the two women to a hedonistic life at the coast. Nice try, buddy. 

I greatly enjoyed the finale. 

The problem with the idea of Micchone for me is that the show already has a fairly plausible and even believable badass female character in Andrea. In last night's episode particularly, she seemed to have completed her evolution from grief-stricken suicide risk into still-damaged but now lethally competent heroine. And that evolution actually felt pretty natural, which is unusual for this show. She's easily the best-written character and probably my personal "favorite."

But now we're getting the cartoon comic book version of the badass chick translated directly onto the screen, and all the work they've done building Andrea into the real-world iteration of that archetype is more or less wasted. Not to mention it makes her presence on the show feel a little superfluous.

Didn't we have multiple badass male characters already? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackyShimSham 

 

I enjoyed how T-Dog tried to abscond with the two women to a hedonistic life at the coast. Nice try, buddy. 

Yup T-Dog was definitely looking for some payback for being relegated to shovel duty for most of the season.  

"Where them white women at?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica 

Didn't we have multiple badass male characters already? 

Let me clarify. My problem isn't with having multiple badass characters of either gender (although I'd argue Daryl is the only real male badass on the show in the sense we're talking about anyway). It's with the inevitable dissonance between the "realistic" badass woman and the comic book fantasy version of that character. How do you reconcile the two without having them basically negate each other?