THE MAN OF STEEL Pre Release Thread

Even as a fan of Superman Returns, I'm all about giving a character like Superman as many different interpretations as he can handle, so I'm quite happy about a new Superman. My concerns come from Snyder, and they're two-fold.

1) Snyder's coming off two big money-losing bombs with Warner Bros., and before that "Watchmen" didn't exactly light anyone on fire. So I fear this installment of the mythos is bound to have such little personality because Snyder knows he has to play ball and score a major hit. I'm a little worried even after, years earlier, he commented that he had turned down Superman multiple times, almost as if he was bragging.

2) Snyder's work in adaptations seems to be all about bringing forth the least-likeable and least-nuanced elements. Does this guy have a real voice? At all? Have we established this? I haven't seen Sucker Punch, and I fear that if I do, I will be able to answer this question.

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Originally Posted by Gabe T 

 

1) Snyder's coming off two big money-losing bombs with Warner Bros., and before that "Watchmen" didn't exactly light anyone on fire.

I had to look up the second one. I knew Sucker Punch, but I didn't know the other movie you were referring to. Up until thirty seconds ago, I thought Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole was a joke cooked up by the writers of 30 Rock.

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Originally Posted by D.S. Randlett 

Snyder is a large part of what has me worried. I don't think that I've really liked a single one of his movies. I guess Dawn of the Dead was alright, but that's about it. He does have a pretty good eye, admittedly, and I have no idea how short his leash will be on this. But on the other hand, this appears to be his first movie in a while that he didn't have a dominant hand in writing, which to me is encouraging. But I have no idea about the grasp the writers have on this character.

A writer from 300 is coming in to do a pass on the script, hence the six month delay in the release date. Double, double, toil and trouble... 

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Originally Posted by MikeI 

I had to look up the second one. I knew Sucker Punch, but I didn't know the other movie you were referring to. Up until thirty seconds ago, I thought Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole was a joke cooked up by the writers of 30 Rock.

Don't they even call it a slightly different title in the show? Something that allows them some legal wiggle room while also clearly mocking something very specific? Or did I remember it wrongly? I do remember they even had off-screen dialogue from the "movie" where someone talks to "Eglantine."
 

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Originally Posted by Gabe T 

Don't they even call it a slightly different title in the show? Something that allows them some legal wiggle room while also clearly mocking something very specific? Or did I remember it wrongly? I do remember they even had off-screen dialogue from the "movie" where someone talks to "Eglantine."

 

I don't remember the first part, but Matt Damon definitely said "the Owls of Ga'hoole." And mouthed along to dialogue between birds.

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Originally Posted by D.S. Randlett 

Snyder is a large part of what has me worried. I don't think that I've really liked a single one of his movies. I guess Dawn of the Dead was alright, but that's about it. He does have a pretty good eye, admittedly, and I have no idea how short his leash will be on this. But on the other hand, this appears to be his first movie in a while that he didn't have a dominant hand in writing, which to me is encouraging. But I have no idea about the grasp the writers have on this character.

In my view, Snyder having Nolan in his corner is a boon. However...Nolan's involvement seems to be both a blessing and a cause for concern, as I see it. I really hope Nolan was able to divorce himself from his usual take on larger-than-life fare in his overall story for Superman that he passed along to Goyer to develop.

Because, in literally every movie he's ever done, Nolan goes to great pains to anchor everything to reality, to make sure everything we see has some gritty, real-world bearing, and isn't fantastical. This approach would be fine in other movies, even great, especially in Batman and such, where we're talking about a normal guy.

The problem with Superman, however, is...Superman should be fantastical. If there's a trilogy in this somewhere, I want to see Warworld and/or Apokolips descending down onto Earth deploying shock troops and Superman really having to bring it all out to stop a fearsome menace, punching out villains above the clouds and heat-visioning motherfuckers left and right before going toe-to-toe with a galaxy-level equal like Mongul or Darkseid...and I just don't imagine Nolan ever in his right mind signing off on a movie even remotely like that.

This is obviously fan made, but I'm posting it out of admiration for the design of the shield; a nifty riff on the Singer design.

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/138/3/4/superman_shield_2012_fire_by_medusone-d3gmh74.jpg

I think that looks pretty awesome.

I might not have thought of this had it not been for the casting of Fishburne, but I've just developed a desire to see Jeffrey Wright as Lex Luthor. I initially thought that his energy is probably too reminiscent of Fishburne's, but that isn't true, it's just that they have a similar timbre. I'm sure it would cause a shit-storm among fans, but perhaps more than most popular comic book characters, I think Luthor is a very pliable character and open to interpretation. I just have this vision in my head of Luthor as a deceptively pleasant, but massively insecure, high-functioning sociopath, and I just get giddy at even just the fantasy of seeing an actor of Wright's caliber playing that role.

Wright as Luthor would be pretty badass. Guy doesn't get nearly enough juicy roles, far as I'm concerned. I hope he has a bigger role in the next Bond flick.

Tangentially, I've seen some posts and blogs refer to the conniption fit fanboys had over Fishburne's casting - but has anyone actually seen/read it? From my admittedly very limited perspective, this seems to be a self-fulfilling meme rather than a reality....but I also don't venture onto boards like Superhero Hype at all, so maybe they are in hysterics over it. Just curious, because I'm wondering how accurate the assumption is.

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Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

I might not have thought of this had it not been for the casting of Fishburne, but I've just developed a desire to see Jeffrey Wright as Lex Luthor. I initially thought that his energy is probably too reminiscent of Fishburne's, but that isn't true, it's just that they have a similar timbre. I'm sure it would cause a shit-storm among fans, but perhaps more than most popular comic book characters, I think Luthor is a very pliable character and open to interpretation. I just have this vision in my head of Luthor as a deceptively pleasant, but massively insecure, high-functioning sociopath, and I just get giddy at even just the fantasy of seeing an actor of Wright's caliber playing that role.

I'd like this a hundred times if I could.

My god JJ, that is utterly fucking inspired.

Damn, I like that.  Would there be a shit storm? But who cares.

Maybe. The main rumor seems to suggest hints of Mark Waid's Superman: Birthright. Clark Kent traveling the world as a novice reporter, or "Batmanning", as it were, getting involved in foreign conflicts, trying to figure out exactly what he's going to do with his powers, etc. That and Superman's world in general being treated in an entirely modern, socioeconomic, "non-nostalgic" context. If at all accurate, that really doesn't seem like much of a big idea at all, but maybe there's something there that hasn't been revealed that will light a fire under geek asses. Who knows.

That was also before multiple re-writes, no?

With this movie on the horizon, Superman Returns may rise in my esteem. If I can view it as a capper to the Donner films, rather than as the start of a new franchise, it improves slightly.

Birthright is the best modern iteration of Superman's origin. Beats Man of Steel, Secret Origins, Earth One, Smallville, and whateverthefuck. At least, the scenes in Africa are. Wisely, as well, it spends little time on Krypton and no time on Clark's childhood in Smallville, opting to only show him returning there as a 25 year old. Once Clark gets to Metropolis, however, it's the same old thing.

Bartleby_Scriven, I really wish this comparison could end.  The one that...Superman Returns is...Anything like Richard Donner's Superman or Donner/Lester Superman 2.  It isn't. Returns has little humor, Superman is a...Stalker, Super Child, Terrible Lois Lane etc.  The only thing similar is they each have...Superman in the Title!

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Originally Posted by Gabe T 

That was also before multiple re-writes, no?

Possibly. I know Jonathan Nolan did a pass, and that as mentioned above, Kurt Johnstad was recently brought on to do another. Now, If you feel the need to bring on the guy who wrote 300 to rewrite David Goyer and Jonathan Nolan, then somewhere, possibly in a dark alley behind the Warner Bros. lot, a pooch has been screwed. Of course, it could just be to punch up some action beats, God help us if it's anything else.

I have to disagree with duke's point... there are numerous similarities between Superman Returns and the Christopher Reeve/Richard Donner-era films.  SR was, quite simply, a pretty shameless attempt to emulate Donner's style (and Reeve's performance, and Gene Hackman's characterization of Lex Luthor, and... well, you get the idea).  How good a job he did is up for debate; I'm not a huge fan of the Superman films (they're great on the level of 70's/80's-era popcorn entertainment, but they don't hold a candle to even the more mediocre entries of the modern superhero boom, in my humble opinion... that's why SR felt like such a throwback).  I dig the character, though, and I'd love to see them liberate themselves from the enslavement of Donner's vision and make a truly great Superman movie.  Time will tell, I guess.

TonyB79, Well, Singer may have tried to emulate Donner, but he...Failed miserably.  Singer's casting was off.  The...One actress in Superman Returns, that could have been as dynamic as Lois Lane as Margot Kidder was...Parker Posey!  She would have been...Perfect.  If there is none of Donner's Superman, in Man Of Steel, that is fine as Superman has been around for numerous decades.  To me, Richard Donner understood Superman, and delivered the...Best version.  The Fleischer Bros, delivered the best animated version, while George Reeves Adventures Of Superman was quite fun as well.  I hope Zack Snyder delivers as great a Superman Film as he did with...Watchmen!  

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Originally Posted by duke fleed 

TonyB79, Well, Singer may have tried to emulate Donner, but he...Failed miserably.  Singer's casting was off.  The...One actress in Superman Returns, that could have been as dynamic as Lois Lane as Margot Kidder was...Parker Posey!  She would have been...Perfect.  If there is none of Donner's Superman, in Man Of Steel, that is fine as Superman has been around for numerous decades.  To me, Richard Donner understood Superman, and delivered the...Best version.  The Fleischer Bros, delivered the best animated version, while George Reeves Adventures Of Superman was quite fun as well.  I hope Zack Snyder delivers as great a Superman Film as he did with...Watchmen!  

You make strong points, Duke. Superman Returns attempted, and failed, to emulate Donner's style. Singer was definitely going for the Donner characterization and picking up story threads from those movies. Unfortunately he stretched it in all the wrong ways, and was not able to replicate the tone. Dogs eating dogs is not my idea of fun.

The aesthetic, the 1930s art deco look, is the only unique thing Singer brought to the table. Although that could be derivative of the old Fleischer cartoons.

I'm curious as to how Metropolis Clark Kent will be portrayed. We've have bumbling Christopher Reeves and yuppie 80s Clark (best portrayed by Dean Cain, for better or worse, on Lois & Clark) duking it out for dominance for 25 years now, depending on the author. Birthright portrays Clark as more of a shy outcast than an oaf.

What I appreciate about pre-Metropolis Clark in Birthright is that, for the first time, I'm convinced that Clark is a strong reporter. Most versions don't even give him a journalism degree and little experience. A Clark that travels the world writing about African dictators, from the front lines, is my kind of reporter.

So, he's not going to have his red trunks this time.

No trunks? I can dig it. I just hope there's at least a yellow belt in the design because that is some serious footie pajama action right there.

I have a feeling that this is going to be bad in the exact opposite way that SUPERMAN RETURNS was. It's going to be all Superman punching shit, and then people are going to complain,"All it was was Superman punching shit, where was the character development? Where was the somber Christ imagery?!" The movie will be yet another box office disappointment and Hollywood will finally realize that Superman can't be done anymore and the character will be relegated to being the Mickey Mouse of superheroes where he belongs.

Who am I kidding, they'll go right ahead with Batman vs. Superman.

Superman can be done, absolutely. It's just that there aren't many people in Hollywood who know how to do it.

He was done, well, in the 70's. Everything that needs to be said about him in cinematic terms has been said, unless you think Superman punching a giant robot is something the world needs to see.

His super junk is as plain as day in that pic. Must be for the 3D.

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Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

He was done, well, in the 70's. Everything that needs to be said about him in cinematic terms has been said, unless you think Superman punching a giant robot is something the world needs to see.

Balderdash. Superman contains multitudes, yo.

That being said, goddamned Zack Snyder is going to drive the character right into the ground.

I still say the best cinematic interpretation of Superman and his Rogues Gallery is in Bruce Timm's DCAU, although they're primarily in Superman: The Animated Series (duh) and Justice League/JLU. Not only do we get a great, relatable version of Supes, but easily the best versions of Lex Luthor and Brainiac EVER. I especially love how they tied Brainiac in to Krypton's destruction, and as a result he's a much more personal enemy for the boy scout.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Donner's take and Superman II as well, but the DCAU easily matches them for pure quality.

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Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

I have a feeling that this is going to be bad in the exact opposite way that SUPERMAN RETURNS was. It's going to be all Superman punching shit, and then people are going to complain,"All it was was Superman punching shit, where was the character development? Where was the somber Christ imagery?!" The movie will be yet another box office disappointment and Hollywood will finally realize that Superman can't be done anymore and the character will be relegated to being the Mickey Mouse of superheroes where he belongs.

 

Who am I kidding, they'll go right ahead with Batman vs. Superman.

That's...definitely my concern, and Henry Cavill is quite the shitty actor.

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Originally Posted by D.S. Randlett 

Has there been any indication anywhere as to what Goyer's killer idea for this was?

Him not directing it.

Man, this thread is catty. Hilariously so.

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Originally Posted by Art Decade 

Man, this thread is catty. Hilariously so.

This. I'm preparing for this for the next 15 months. People just love to rip on Supes (the movies I mean).

I'm still looking for a thread to rip on soups. I wish I had an outlet to voice my hatred for liquid meals.

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Originally Posted by History Buff 

This. I'm preparing for this for the next 15 months. People just love to rip on Supes (the movies I mean).

People seem to shit on him often with an equal amount of relish as they do praise Batman.

Hell, I like oysters AND snails.

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Originally Posted by Renn Brown 

I'm still looking for a thread to rip on soups. I wish I had an outlet to voice my hatred for liquid meals.

I know, right? Either be a food or a beverage. Make up your f'n mind, Soup.

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Originally Posted by Art Decade 

I know, right? Either be a food or a beverage. Make up your f'n mind, Soup.

...and god damn it don't get me started on fucking consommes unless you have an afternoon free.

I always thought of Superman as Jimi Hendrix & Batman as Stevie Ray Vaughn. Supes is the alien being who came out of nowhere & dominated all takers with superhuman abilities & Bats is the weathered, down to earth guy whose extraordinary prowess came from years of body damaging dedication.

I can do this all day. Batman is Michael Jordan, but Superman is David Robinson.

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Originally Posted by Gabe T 

I can do this all day. Batman is Michael Jordan, but Superman is David Robinson.

So you're saying Batman is a gambling addicted, unfaithful husband, who didn't know when to walk away from the game cause you were clearly over the hill basketball player. While Superman a classy, graduate of the Naval of Academy, who was considered to a nice a guy a thus "soft", but finally won a championship cause he teamed up with another really nice guy in Tim Duncan.

To think, I was concerned there'd be fucking morons dissecting The Man of Steel to full retard!

A little too homophobic for my taste.

And here we are