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THE MAN OF STEEL Pre Release Thread - Page 15

post #701 of 2590

Honestly Snyder's films overall havent been bad. Still his best film is Dawn of the Dead. 300 was visually great and looking back it at a few months ago I thought it was humorus that Fassbender before he was famous had the best lines in the movie which was pretty sweet, but the plot is bad but blame that on the original source material by Frank Miller. Watchmen was disaapointing though it should have been better it just felt so lifeless at times, but can't think of anyone doing a better job at it. Sucker Punch might be his worst film. I absolutely hated it the first time I saw it, however it gets better with a second viewing and has these different layers that Snyder was going for which is really interesting but just wasn't done very well at all, if he had someone co-writting and reigning in Snyder it could of been great. So thats why Man Of Steel will probably be very good Nolan seemed to keep him grounded to reality and seems visually great and maybe the best we'lkl get from a Superman movie it feels like equal parts All Star Superman and Birthright which sounds awesome to me so very cool to me.

 

Anyway no matter how much I hated Sucker Punch and Watchmen both are infinitely better than anything  Mark Steven Johnson or Paul WS Anderson have done (apart from Event Horizon, I still can't believe he did that movie)

post #702 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

 

Yeah, I think WATCHMEN shows an incredible love and devotion to the source material, but Snyder's reach exceeds his grasp (or whatever that saying is). I disagree about 300 - I think it works and is a pretty great cinematic representation of a fireside tale meant to stoke the troops for the coming battle. I don't think it has any real depth, though. Like WATCHMAN, he's aiming for something deeper than he can actually attain. I won't even talk about SUCKER PUNCH.

 

I have hopes for Snyder's take on SUPERMAN, and not just for Nolan's hand in the mix. Superman is a simpler character, and one more easily explored and portrayed than someone like Ozymandias or the Comedian. I also have to think Snyder's been spanked pretty hard by the returns and reactions to SUCKER PUNCH, and that WB exerted some pressure to shore up his weaknesses.

 

300 isn't about complex themes or anything, but I thought Snyder failed to do justice to the material simply on a basic dramatic level. I quite like the comic--fascism, gay panic, and all--just as a big dumb 80s-style action romp. It's like something John Milius or Walter Hill would have delivered at the top of their game. Part of that is an easy self-confidence and a level of restraint--and "restraint" is not a word in Snyder's vocabulary. The Spartans in the comic are the epitome of "speak softly and carry a big stick." Their action-movie quips (almost all of which are from Herodotus) are amazing because they're tossed out casually, a la James Bond. With Snyder everything is SCREAMED AT TOP VOLUME. Tonally, it's a complete botch job, and this has been Snyder's biggest problem throughout his career. He could get everything else right--and I'll even buy that he has before--but the tone he strives for in his movies is just excruciating, and almost always wrong for the material.

 

And this is what has me still worried for Superman. He actually IS a tricky character to get right. The trailers suggest a level of reverence, so that's good as far as it goes  but he's also supposed to be fun and imaginative. He works best in a crazy SF world, not in some hackneyed attempt at a "realistic" world (and this is the same thing I've been saying about Nolan's Batman, so in that sense his involvement is a bit worrisome). As a character, he's supposed to make being the good guy seem appealing and even sort of cool in a weird, square way--it's almost punk rock, the way nerdiness is sometimes cool. Superman's goodness is kind of badass because it's so complete and untempered. While I think the story around him can absolutely delve into questions of "can one man wield so much power?" and "doesn't he possibly represent something unhealthy?" the character himself needs to be completely untainted by cynicism and deconstructionism to work. Even Garth Ennis understood this.

 

A lot of today's movies tend to cross over into a kind of casual immortality and cynicism that the filmmakers might not even intend--the way so few directors seem to mind having superheroes straight up murder people, for instance, or at least not try very hard to save them. Or Hollywood's really garbled stance on torture (they often have their heroes torture someone to get information, and it's usually portrayed as a bad thing, but the consequences tend to be negligible, and it often falls prey to the fallacy that torture is a reliable way to get information in the first place.) Or the way so many heroes are whiny, angst-ridden, self-absorbed assholes, to whom the entire world is expected to cater. Hell, look at Brian Singer's botched Superman--a guy who abandons Earth and the woman he loves for five years for thinly sketched reasons, and then returns as a super-stalker. And Singer's a far smarter flimmaker than Snyder, as far as I'm concerned. I think there are distressingly few mainstream directors in Hollywood who have a firm grasp on empathy and morality, let alone "heroism", which is why I think a Superman movie is such a tricky proposition.

 

But there's enough wiggle room in my opinion of Snyder that I can hope.

post #703 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

Also, it remains utterly insane that we're coming up on 6 Superman movies without Brainiac ever being used as a villain. Apparently they were gonna use him in part 3, but...didn't for some reason.

 

They've never really used anyone other than Luthor or Zod (Robert Vaughn's character was clearly a hastily re-written Luthor) plus maybe a sub-boss or two.

post #704 of 2590

More good news about the early word.

 

 

 

Quote:
By May, the studio’s slate should deliver big grosses again starting withThe Great GatsbyThe Hangover Part III, and the hotly anticipated Man Of Steel which by many accounts overdelivers. (That’s the buzz following its first internal screening.)

 

 

http://www.deadline.com/2013/03/big-budget-jack-the-giant-slayer-bombs-on-bad-weekend-for-3-new-films/

post #705 of 2590

I agree that a 'World's Finest' film should be next before a JLA film.

This is older material, but a fan film trailer for  World's Finest was made some years ago and was quite good.

If you've not seen it, and even if you have~

post #706 of 2590

"Overdelivers"?

post #707 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehauk View Post

I agree that a 'World's Finest' film should be next before a JLA film.

This is older material, but a fan film trailer for  World's Finest was made some years ago and was quite good.

If you've not seen it, and even if you have~

 

Wow, that was fucking awful.  Why do people always fall for shit like this?  At least this one didn't feature Boner, I guess.

post #708 of 2590

I don't understand why full-grown adults spend their time and money on these things.

post #709 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

"Overdelivers"?
Yea. I literally facepalmed when I read that. Then I facepalmed again because I facepalmed.
post #710 of 2590

So you overdelivered on facepalms.

post #711 of 2590

I think facepalming is a normal reaction to stuff written by Nikki Finke.

post #712 of 2590
Quote:
Wow, that was fucking awful.

Made in 2005, so a lot with the 2 characters has changed since. The guy playing Superman looked great I thot, maybe a bit too bright of colors for his costume, but a dead ringer for the Alex Ross painted version of the character, maybe even he was used as the model for Ross.

post #713 of 2590

Come on guys, some people made a Superman/Batman video for fun, let's not be mean about it, people spend their money on and do weirder things for hobbies. It's harmless.

post #714 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatoon View Post

 

When Daredevil kills someone 5 minutes into the movie, it's pretty obvious no one's interested in making a Daredevil movie in anything but name.

My favorite thing about Daredevil remains him writing DD at a crime scene that hadn't yet happened on the off-chance that someone would ignite it.

post #715 of 2590

Haha I LOVE that.  He randomly throws his smoke down and it just so happens to hit the DD logo.

post #716 of 2590

Man of Steel better have a scene where the Superman logo catches fire. The Crow, Daredevil, The Punisher and Batman have all done it.

post #717 of 2590
Thread Starter 

There's actually a firey "S" moment in "Birthright," which appears to be a major influence on this movie. Except there it's a bad guy (A Lex Luthor funded impostor Kryptonian) that sets it up to make Supes look bad. It actually leads to a pretty badass hero moment there.

post #718 of 2590

What, this isn't enough for you?

 

 

 

PS. Orange and Teal-est movie ever?

post #719 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post

I don't understand why full-grown adults spend their time and money on these things.

 

Because they find it fun? Because they are hoping to break into film?

post #720 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.S. Randlett View Post

There's actually a firey "S" moment in "Birthright," which appears to be a major influence on this movie. Except there it's a bad guy (A Lex Luthor funded impostor Kryptonian) that sets it up to make Supes look bad. It actually leads to a pretty badass hero moment there.

I love Birthright, I'd love to see the "I made it." scene at the end happen in the movie.

post #721 of 2590
Thread Starter 

Birthright is so good. The only problem I have with it is the "soul vision" thing, which I think ends up undermining the character's ethics.

post #722 of 2590

I think I'm perhaps the only one in the world who doesn't much care for Birthright. It's not a bad comic or anything, but it didn't strike me as being an especially memorable reboot of the origin story.

post #723 of 2590
I thought I'd read Birthright, but no, I've read Secret Origin, which is not to be confused with Earth One. Does DC only publish Superman origin stories?
post #724 of 2590

Sadly, he seems to be the character that DC has to keep reminding and/or insisting to a dwindling readership that he matters. Outside of All-Star Superman (the maiden title for a line of comics that I guess may have been killed by Frank Miller, Jim Lee, and writers/artists  who apparently never heard of a deadline), I honestly have no idea what's been happening with the character for the past four or five years.

post #725 of 2590
Thread Starter 

Birthright was the first of the modern ones since Byrne's "Man of Steel" reboot in the eighties, and it was supposed to set a tone for the "next era" of Superman. I think it may have been a holdover from the kiboshed "Superman NOW!" reboot that Mark Waid had been planning with Grant Morrison and Mark Millar in the late 90s/early 00s. Initial sales weren't that great, and it's easy to see why. All of the people buying monthly comics at the time already knew that story like the backs of their hands. So why shell out for a premium maxiseries when it doesn't give you anything new. I said earlier that I think it's "so good." It's not reinventing the wheel or anything, but it's breezy, well done, and a lot of fun.

 

"Secret Origin," which I've only skimmed, was basically laying the groundwork for Geoff Johns' run on Action Comics. Especially the stuff with young Clark going to the future to hang out with the Legion, which to this day I think was a bad idea. Now, I actually like the "Superman and The Legion of Superheroes" story that they did later on, but having young Clark know that he becomes a big, important figure kind of undermines him, I think. For whatever reason, I think it's better that he learn that after he's already made the choice to be Superman. But anyway, "Secret Origin" has some nice beats from what I've seen, but a lot of it is unnecessary set up for stuff that comes later in the Johns run.

 

The Earth One thing is just weird.

 

I think the reason for the preponderance of Superman origin stories is that that's the story that people weened on Hollywood (like most comic book folks) are trained to tell. It's a story of "becoming," and the modern blockbusters that have influenced superhero comics since Star Wars have major problems telling stories about "being," which can be just as thrilling. For much of his history that's what Superman was about: being a good friend, being a good citizen, etc. I don't think a lot of modern comics writers are equipped to explore stories like that, hence the constant rehashing of Superman's origin, or else the themes that that story orbits around. I don't think it's an accident that the two best Superman stories of the past decade, Morrison/Quitely's All Star and Busiek/Immonen's Secret Identity, devote most of their ink to what it's like to be Superman rather than what it's like to become him.


Edited by D.S. Randlett - 3/4/13 at 7:30pm
post #726 of 2590

It's also the greatest superhero origin by being so epic/biblical in scope.

post #727 of 2590

Two things. One, good post, two, I hate Geoff Johns. Sorry, I just had to say that. I don't know if he's gotten better in the years since I stopped reading superhero comics, but there was so much wrong with him as a writer that for me, it drowned out any strengths he allegedly had.

post #728 of 2590
Thread Starter 

I think Geoff Johns main problem was that he was so successful so quickly in comics that he never learned how to balance out the pull between his good ideas and his indulgences. When he's on, he produces really big, fun stuff, but even that will fall prey to some of his bad instincts. He's very much a YMMV writer, and a lot of the good comes with the bad, and how you respond depends on how you feel about the bad. The best thing he's written is probably the Superman story "Up, Up, and Away!" which he co-wrote with Kurt Busiek, who apparently took the lead there.

post #729 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.S. Randlett View Post

I think Geoff Johns main problem was that he was so successful so quickly in comics that he never learned how to balance out the pull between his good ideas and his indulgences. When he's on, he produces really big, fun stuff, but even that will fall prey to some of his bad instincts. He's very much a YMMV writer, and a lot of the good comes with the bad, and how you respond depends on how you feel about the bad. The best thing he's written is probably the Superman story "Up, Up, and Away!" which he co-wrote with Kurt Busiek, who apparently took the lead there.

Also called the Bendis effect; when a writer ends up somehow becoming the main pillar behind the whole comic universe, it all crumbles eventually; hell, even older pros like Mark Waid or Warren Ellis* couldnt handle it (anyone remember the Hypertime concept?)...hell, i fear for the future work of Hickman and Fraction right now.

As far as superhero comics go, when a sole writer is pretty much doing half of the editor's job, storytelling and continuity are bound to suffer eventually.

 

*In defense of Ellis, his whole fucking hard drive got wiped out and killed New Universal.

 

In other news, i kinda missed the whole controversy of Scott Card being the new Superman writer. Just wow.

post #730 of 2590

Screen rant's take on JoBlo's collection of early screening responses.

 

I'm posting this link (instead of the source article) specifically because it mentions the comic stories that appear to be the biggest influences:

 

 

 

Quote:
Content-wise, Goyer and Snyder are smart in drawing from modern comic storylines like Mark Waid’s “Superman: Birthright” and Geoff Johns’ “Superman: Secret Origin.”
post #731 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

Screen rant's take on JoBlo's collection of early screening responses.

I find it hard to believe this movie is pulling from Secret Origin in any way, shape, or form, and I'm hoping that what they meant to say was it's pulling from Birthright and Earth One.

Certainly seems to match the tone better, and the whole invasion force prompting Superman's emergence seems to fit with what we've been shown thus far. I just can't see what they could have taken from Secret Origin, which IMO is kind of hokey.
post #732 of 2590

Wait, his cape is going to be CG most of the time? That seems kind of unnecessary.

post #733 of 2590
Worked for Spawn, right?

Oh.
post #734 of 2590

Hey, I thought Spawn's cape was one of the few cool things about that movie.

post #735 of 2590
I saw Spawn in theaters, haven't seen it since, but I still cringe every time I think about it.

The CGI cape probably won't bother me unless Snyder has it in constant dramatic billowing mode even when Superman is just checking his account balance at an ATM..."Negative $195? Fuck, I need to start eating in more." *Whoosh! Whoosh! Speed Ramp!*
post #736 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post

I don't understand why full-grown adults spend their time and money on these things.
Because they're not adults.

CG the cape? Meh, let me know when they CG the codpiece. Then we will worry.
post #737 of 2590

 

post #738 of 2590

You wanna lose the red briefs after 80 years? Fine. But I do think he needs something to break up the blue bodysuit. 

post #739 of 2590
I love the "come at me, bro" pose he's striking while standing behind Lois.
post #740 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by grubstreeter View Post

You wanna lose the red briefs after 80 years? Fine. But I do think he needs something to break up the blue bodysuit. 

 

He does though.  He's got a belt/medallion thing.  Maybe it could be bigger, but it is there.  Just not in that cover, since Lois is blocking it.

post #741 of 2590

I see it - you're right. 

 

As always it pays to wait to see it motion and in context. I hated Cap's Avengers outfit in photos, but in the film it grew on me. 

post #742 of 2590

And Lois Lane as Amy Adams.

post #743 of 2590

Can someone explain why Lois is nearly 40 years old in this movie? I'll admit I was never a huge Amy Adams fan to begin with, but she has nearly a decade on her love interest here and it's seriously a little odd.

 

What happens in the sequel where they have to explain why 30 year old Clark is so obsessed with a middle aged woman? This is only going to get more awkward as the years go by.

post #744 of 2590

Well, that's refreshing. The age difference between leads is almost always skewed in the other direction.
 

post #745 of 2590

Because Amy Adams is great?

post #746 of 2590

Dr. Harford, It makes sense to me.  Lois is not just a reporter at the daily planet she is their...#1 Reporter.  She covers national and international news, so it would take some time to reach those heights.   Also, I always thought that Lois should be older than Superman.  He is the fish out of water guy leaving the farming community of Smallville for life in the big city.  He is...Out of this world, whilist she is...Worldly!  They are a...Super couple!

post #747 of 2590

Fair enough, I'm glad the casting works for you guys. On the other hand, even Jezebel had an article up the other day titled "Amy Adams is way too old to play Lois Lane", so it seems like there is a healthy debate on the subject.

post #748 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post

Dr. Harford, It makes sense to me.  Lois is not just a reporter at the daily planet she is their...#1 Reporter.  She covers national and international news, so it would take some time to reach those heights.   Also, I always thought that Lois should be older than Superman.  He is the fish out of water guy leaving the farming community of Smallville for life in the big city.  He is...Out of this world, whilist she is...Worldly!  They are a...Super couple!


I actually agree with you here, Fleed! It's just that I'm not a huge fan of Adams to begin with, and she's already almost 39 where as Margot Kidder was in her early 30s.

post #749 of 2590

She's 38 now, wouldn't that make her like 36 when they filmed most of this? 

post #750 of 2590

No problem here.

 

Late 70's fashions made Kidder look 45, such a cruel decade.

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