DRIVE Discussion - Page 3

Well, in your girlfriend's dad's defense, the violence in Conan was nigh undercipherable, so maybe he was cheering the idea of it in that one, rather than having to brutally watch a man kick another man's face in and consider that 'hey, maybe violence isn't all that great.'

I liked Drive more than I loved it is my initial impression.

 

There's a lot of talk about the silences in this movie, and that's my biggest problem.  Not all of them, just most of the ones between Gosling and Mulligan.  I never felt the spark between them...let me rephrase.  I never felt the spark was deserved.  Certainly, The Driver is cool and good looking and his jacket is boss.  But every time he looked at her in her apartment, I got a rapey vibe from Gosling.  Maybe it's his face, maybe its the dialog that is incredibly simplistic (not that this is bad, mind) but I would not have been surprised if Mulligan wound up in his trunk at some point.

 

Early on, until Pearlman was talking about getting his cheeks pinched, I thought HIS dialog was terribly written, he was a caricature of a mobster, instead of being a character.  Like when the boys from Always Sunny become mobsters.  However, when he gave his little monologue, I understood that he WAS a caricature, because that's what he thought was expected of him. 

 

I never had this "revelation" with the romance between Gosling and Mulligan.  I never saw the light and got the "Aha!"  It always felt stilted and a little half baked.

 

That being said, I did like the movie and I am quite looking forward to watching it again in six months or so, seeing if my feelings change.  

You don't see The Driver turning into a violent psychopath (to the horror of Mulligan's character) as the movie somewhat vindicating your impression of him as a bit of a creep?

I read it the way I assume it was meant to be read. He's a guy afraid to talk to a girl, but for reasons miles more fucked up and sad than being afraid of garden variety rejection. Though it is wonderfully disturbing that a lot of the violence in the film is in place of all of the sex he's not having. 

.

 

This movie's actually doing pretty well -- after 10 days in release it has a total of $21 million domestically, on an alleged production budget of $15. Considering that it's also gotten excellent reviews, I don't think there's any doubt that this film will be anything but good for Refn's career.

 

I find it strange when people bring their individual theater experiences into discussions about a film's potential success, because I think it's been proven over and over that one particular audience is in no way representative of the public at large. For example, there were a few people behind me at Moneyball who talked through the whole thing and then concluded their movie-long conversation by saying the film was "weird." If I was judging Moneyball's success based on those people, I would say it was going to be a flop -- but it wasn't, of course, and there are a huge number of factors involved in that outcome that would have far eclipsed my more or less baseless intuition if I had been foolhardy enough to make that prediction. I just happened to sit next to a few people who didn't dig the movie, pretty much.

 

Situational observation (and the broad assumptions that follow from it) doesn't equal accuracy, is what I'm saying. Amongst film buffs in general, there might be a tendency to see something esoteric or cerebral and then immediately think the director is fucked, to the extent where perhaps "we" get a secret sense of validation from seeing a great movie fail with the "public" and eagerly await that result. Sort of a "if they don't like it, the movie must be good" type of thing. We do make distinct separations between ourselves and the filmgoing "masses," after all.

 

Before I get to the above, I have to say that I also had a less than ideal audience experience when I saw the movie tonight. I thought there wouldn't be a problem as I went to the local cineplex in town (which usually doesn't get much business at all) and I didn't think there would be a lot of people to see this on a Tuesday night. Well, some people were there, and of course some just had to be Troglodytes and not shut the fuck up. Sigh. If only they could've gotten knifed in the throat or gotten their head stomped in. I can also tell from them that they didn't really care for all the violence; me, I had no idea it was coming (hey, I've only seen the first Pusher movie and that's it for Refn) so it was quite the surprise.

 

As for this movie, I didn't think it was poor or anything. I mean, it'll end up somewhere on my best 10 list for the year... but I don't see as many movies as most people do. Me, I don't really care if a movie is relentlessly dour or downbeat. After all, if it wasn't for that God-awful Marty Stu character known as Killer, I probably would have ended up enjoying Faster, for example.

 

I just thought that this didn't knock my socks off or make me jizz in my pants like it did most people who have posted in this thread. I wish I could have liked it more, just like Martin. I don't completely agree with his opinion on Mann films, although I thought that Collateral was highly overrated and as cool as Heat is it should definitely not have been almost 3 hours long.

 

Anyhow, the score is awesome, I agree, and there are nice performances all around, and I was interested in the story. It's just that I did wish at times for the story to start moving faster and not having so many long pauses; I've actually recently seen the story on which this is based in a bookstore, so I know that the copy I saw was like 150 pages and had HUGE text so it's not like War & Peace in length and thus shit has to be expanded upon. I just wish the pace would have been faster early on... or faster in general.

 

It's just that the dour nature did start getting to me; not as much as Gabe, but it started to become a bit much. I also would have liked more car chase stuff, as what you got to see was cool. By the end, though, some questions began to run through my mind, and it was not stuff I wanted to ask. Such as, why exactly did he wear an uber-creepy mask to go after Nino if the end result was what it was? How did Driver end up surviving that attack? And why did I have to look at his face for what seemed like 10 minutes straight before the audience found out his true fate?

 

I wish I could give this 10 out of 5 stars like most people here, but I'll have to be more like Rene in this thread. I do have to say, though, that Gosling was awesome in his role. He really played it well and there are definitely moments from him I won't forget, like the hammer scene or how he violently stomped some dude's face in. This has to be the first movie I've seen him in and I was impressed. At least looks-wise, it'd be boss if he and Cristoph Waltz would work together on a project where they'd be related somehow, like father and son. That on paper at least sounds like something I could enjoy, at least on paper.

Do you actually think the questions you're asking are questions that Refn somehow forgot to answer? If you're answer is yes, then I definitely think you should see more movies and a much wider variety of them.  

 

You have a good point and lord knows I'm guilty of film snobbery as much as the next film geek but that wasn't really what I was getting at.  Of course my observations at the screening were likely inaccurate anecdotal evidence, but I really don't think Drive is something that clicked with Joe Public.  Yes, it didn't flop at the b.o. given its budget but I don't think its going to give studios a ton of confidence in Refn's profitability either.  Either way, Refn will keep making films and I'll keep buying tickets for them, but I'm guessing they'll be at the small arthouse theater in town and not the multiplex like Drive.  I could be wrong though.
 

 

I saw this movie the weekend of the release and I still can't get it out of my head. It's sticking to the walls of my brain. It took a tired crime/revenge story told a hundred times and turned it into a true piece of art worthy of the label "film."  Essays will be written about it. Every aspect of this movie was there for a reason and added layers that the script alone could not convey. Defiantly not downloading this one. Hollywood earns my cash today.

Well, I'm sorry you didn't care for my take on the movie, Jacknife Johnny. Maybe I didn't like the questions that formed in my mind... but I'd rather not argue about this with you. I just didn't like the movie as much as most around here, I didn't think there was anything wrong with that.

 

Unfortunately, I imagine that future Refn movies will more likely be at arty joints rather than the local cineplex.

Refn is an arthouse director, but he still makes movies about drug crime and vikings, so no worries there. They're probably not ready to sign him for a Thundercats movie or anything, but no one wants that.

Whoa whoa whoa, I would fucking midnight view the shit out of a Refn directed Thudercats movie.

Agreed.  I would much rather a return to loosy goosy directorial choices for tentpole films like Ang Lee for Hulk.  Think of how interesting a Refn helmed Hulk film would be!  After watching Bronson this weekend, I think it's safe to say Refn has a definite artistic preoccupation with male rage and violence. 

Sadly that'd never happen.  Marvel would never let any director do anything interesting with their characters.  Especially with Hulk.

I'd like to make an anticipatory request that we not fan wank for the next five to ten years about Refn taking on every comic book movie that needs a director.

I'm looking at you, Wolverine.

This is Refn's superhero film - he's called it that himself - and we don't need to fantasize about him being a studio director for hire; this is it, and the result is way better than him doing some comic book or 80s cartoon franchise ever could be.

I don't think I can apologize for it, but I'll cop to being a bit of an asshole in that post. I don't care that you didn't like the movie, that's fine, it's that you seem to mistake very deliberate choices for flaws in pacing and so on (frankly, I don't understand the logic of being put off by a violent crime noir being "dour", which I sort of disagree with anyway. I thought it was oddly sweet in its fatalism and simply amazing to look at). And why not argue about it? No point in doing any of this shit if we can't get passionate about our opinions every now and again.

 

 

Edit: By the by, a few days ago I watched an interview with Gosling on YouTube where he told an anecdote about being too affected by movies as a kid and doing dangerous/stupid stuff trying to imitate Stallone in First Blood and Rocky. This immediately locked me into thinking about the affected macho cool that the Driver shares with one Marion Cobretti. The vintage looking clothes, the venomous animal icon*, the too-tight open shirt, the gloves, the oral fixation (toothpick for matchstick), and that "I will fucking kill you and not blink" attitude. So very Cobra. Middle-aged Jewish gangsters are the disease, and he's the cure.

 

 

*Yes, I know it's attributed to Kenneth Anger's Scorpio Rising, but let me have this one. I needs it.

 

 

 

Edited by JacknifeJohnny - 10/2/11 at 5:19pm

Yeah, I took it that he lives and he's driving away from the one thing that actually made him feel something, and the one thing he can never have.

 

I was pretty entranced by the movie. I saw it on Monday night and it's been rattling around in my brain ever since. The one scene that didn't really work for me was the one with the ethereal song playing when Ryan is about to take out Perlman. It was the only moment when I felt the movie pushing to prove that it was more than just a pulp thriller. Maybe I'll feel differently upon repeated viewings, though.

 

 

 

http://slantmagazine.com/film/review/drive/5743

 

Thoughts? Rebuttals?

One Brooklyn girl's illustrated response to the movie.  God, I loved this.  Just brilliant.  My little gift of love for all Chewers today:

 

http://thehairpin.com/2011/10/drive-an-illustrated-response

 

The instant I saw Bronson, it became my favorite of 2008. If Oscar Season really loses it this year, Drive will remain my favorite of 2011. Refn just.. destroys me. The smile I had on my face during the opening credits of this movie was ridiculous. The last time I got one of those smiles was the beginning of Tree of Life.. and as much as I like that movie, I want to watch Drive over and over.

 

Has anyone else said anything about the Mask being a Tom Cruise mask? I don't know if it's just me, but it has to be his face. If it is.. just one of the many perfect touches throughout.

After dying to see this movie for weeks, I finally caught a showing at Arclight. 

 

I have mixed feelings about this movie.  It's the first Refn movie I've seen, so it's a late introduction.  He's undeniably talented and has that "something" that separates him from people like Zac Snyder and Brett Ratner and puts him in the same room with Tarantino, PT Anderson and The Coens.

 

On the one hand, I really liked Drive.  I thought it was a big ball of colorful magic with some very visceral moments.  I love how there's very little dialogue from Driver, he's an enigma carrying alot of pain.  I really liked the 80s feel to the film.  Albert Brooks and Ron Perlman were fantastic.  Everyone was really.

 

But there's something about this movie that didn't sit well with me and I can't fucking put my finger on it...something was "off".  The opening sequence was some of the best filmmaking I've ever seen, and the movie, while great, never lived up to the promise of that brilliant opening.  But sometimes this "off" feeling I get happens with talented filmmakers I've newly been introduced to, like a first date, it kind of feels awkward in spite of the other good feelings you may be having about this person and it takes a few more dates to relax into the relationship.

 

I like Refn, but I'm not over the moon for him like I was when I first saw Boogie Nights, or Pulp Fiction, or Blood Simple.  But Drive is certainly worthy of a second watch and I'd rather do that before I conclude my feelings about it and Refn as a filmmaker.

Refn is attached to the Logan's Run remake as director.
 

 

I just remembered something that contributed to my "off" feeling.  While the music was great (I'm a sucker for 80s pop), I didn't like the heavyhanded-ness of some of it.  For instance, many of the songs had the lyrics commenting on exactly what was happening in the scene and the overall film, which to me defeates the purpose of putting a song, or any music, over the images in the first place...if Scorsese was in the room he'd know what I was talking about.  The Billy Batts beating in Goodfellas with Donovan's "Atlantis" running over it is a perfect example of how to properly use songs in films.

 

On the other hand Scorsese uses "Love is Strange" by Mickey and Sylvia over the scene in Casino where Ace falls for Ginger, so maybe I'm way off...but I think my greater point is that "off" feeling I had was Drive's insistence on nearly bludgeoning the audience over the head with some of the songs and those forceful lyrics.

 

The fact that the music comments directly on what's going on in the film was a staple of American pop movies of the 80's, of John Hughes films in particular, who was openly referenced as an influence by both Refn and Gosling. It's not "off", it's exactly what it's supposed to be.  

There's also a heavy dose of irony lurking about all of the song choices.

Indeed.

Good point.  Like I said, I'm still formulating my thoughts on how I feel about this movie.  I don't think the direct nature of the music is a bad thing, it's something that I was taken aback by because I'm used to it being done by filmmakers who don't know what they're doing.  I edited out a statement in my last comment that I now wish I left in.  I was going to say that it's possible Refn was using the direct nature of the lyrics as a stylistic choice rather than being ignorant about music placement in film (such as Zac Snyder with Watchmen)...I now realize this is entirely probable and it's something I will look out for when I see the film again.

 

Again, I think it's a very good movie, but there are things about it that...I wont say I don't "get", but I need a chance as a cinephile to gain a greater perspective about the movie that good cinema deserves.  It's something Hollywood is completely ignorant of, which is the lasting nature of movies and that you need time to appreciate works of art, which some films strive to be (very few nowdays)...and in these times of opening weekends determining a film's box office fate (and ultimately the fate of the filmmaker, sadly), it's difficult to allow a movie to germinate in the consciousness of the moviegoing public.  

 

When I watch a Kubrick film, there are very deliberate things he chose that are about the FILM, and not the incidental circumstances about it's role in the marketplace.  I feel like Refn has probably achieved this with Drive.  Maybe it's just been so long since I've seen a genuine masterpiece in a movie theater that it takes time for me to get used to something that's flirting with that title...and Drive certainly is doing that.

 

I should also note, and this is important, that there's a difference between a filmmaker intellectually understanding a technique and pulling it off in the film.  What I mean is, I might understand a motivation for something, but it might not help me get more into the movie because it doesn't organically work with the film.  There have been scores of filmmakers who's motivation for doing something works in their heads, but when they try to implement it into the film, for whatever reason, it may not work.  I'm not saying it doesn't work with Refn and Drive, but I'm saying my initial instinct...I tend to trust it more than I trust somebody's explanation about WHY I'm wrong.  

 

 

 

Edited by Ambler - 10/7/11 at 12:08am

I think the song selection in Drive is vastly different from a Scorsese or a Snyder joint in that I had never heard the songs before.  With Scorsese, I had heard the songs a million times before seeing them paired with his iconic scenes (Layla springs immediately to mind), but after viewing them in concert with his inimitable brand of shooting and editing, will never be able to hear the songs by themselves without thinking of the movie Scorsese used them in.  With Snyder, he chooses obvious songs that have been used so much in film already, you probably have a previous film you attach them to in your mind.  With Drive, the songs and their respective artists are foreign to me, so I have a completely different relation to them.  In my mind, they function only as an extension of the Cliff Martinez score and that will be the only association I ever have for them.  I own the Drive soundtrack and have been listening to it relentlessly for the past couple of weeks in an attempt to retain some sort of residual high off the movie, like scraping resin to make due until the bluray drops.  Apparently the Riz Ortolani cut, My Love, was used in exploitative shocker Goodbye Uncle Tom, which I haven't seen.  Once I saw it was composed by Ortolani though, its sweeping, epic sadness felt instantly more familiar and perfectly in context with Drivers total dislocation from his humanity it was used so eloquently to underscore. There is truly nothing about this film I don't love.  

http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/29422658/index.html

This trailer certainly struck a nerve with this lady!

I highly recommend Bronson again. That soundtrack too is amazing.

That she thought the trailer for Drive indicated a Fast and the Furious type film says more about her than anything else.

Yeah, that's what I don't get about her complaint.  The trailer wasn't THAT misleading.  

 

Besides... it would be more understandable if she thought it would be more like The Transporter or something.

Drive is fucking fantastic.  If I had the chance, I'd see it again in a heartbeat.  I can't wait for it to hit Blu-ray!

 

 

Indeed, with Gosling starring again to boot!  It looks like it isn't quite ready though and Refn will likely be directing two other films first..................Only God Forgives (with Gosling) and I Walk With The Dead (with Mulligan).  He and Gosling also plan on doing a comedy together at some point.

 

Best guess assuming things go well?:  Only God Forgives (2012), I Walk With The Dead (late 2012/early 2013), and Logan's Run (fall 2013).

 

 

Keep in mind that Refn also keeps carrying on in interviews about how he would love to direct a Wonder Woman movie.  While I'm sure it will never happen, it isn't like the man is avoiding big Hollywood films.  Hell, when he came to the States he was ACTIVELY seeking jobs in Hollywood.  He purchased a big "typical Hollywood home" and everything.  He is proudly proclaiming this in most of his interviews these days.  He was attached to make a modern adaptation of Jekyll & Hyde with Keanu Reeves for awhile (at Universal, I think) titled Jekyll.  When that fell apart, he almost did a thriller with Harrison Ford called The Dying of the Light, but that ended up not happening as well.  Instead, he ended up making Drive.  As for Logan's Run, he's been attached to that one for awhile now and all signs point to it happening in the near future.  As long as he doesn't start making ridiculously budgeted features, he'll do just fine in Hollywood and still maintain creative freedom.  Forgives is foreign financed, but I believe Dead is at least co-financed in the US as Gore Verbinski is one of the producers on the project.

 

Anyone that thinks Refn is going to stay away from Hollywood or films that achieve mainstream distribution is nuts.  He's here to stay people, at least for the time being.

 

Reeves as Jekyll and Hyde?

 

Thank Christ that fell apart.

 

 

No, it sounds like mitigating the risk. This is exactly what the WB did with Nolan. They gave him Insomnia to see if he could handle a movie with big stars/egos and a big(ger) budget, before giving him Batman Begins and paving the way for Inception, which he'd pitched to the WB around that time.
 

 

 

I'm assuming that Verbinski is still involved with I Walk With The Dead, which never really fell apart and has just been sitting in development for a year or two.  I wasn't aware of the heist film though.  I'd love to see him work with Mads again.
 

 

Yea, thats how I read it too.  They were meant to be ironic, but also reflect how he sees himself in the movie.  Goslings character felt like an exploration of what Walters Hills Driver character would be like in real  life. 

 

Someone who thinks they are extremely cool, to the point of being little cheesy, as evidenced by Goslings toothpick and dragon embroidered jacket.  But also someone who is socially awkward, quiet and a little inarticulate.  And even though he is the hero, Walter Hills driver would come across as super violent in real life, and even scary and possibly psychotic just as Gosling was.

 

Neither of the characters care about the money, its about the thrill and the challenge.  Its almost like Goslings character is someone who watched Walter Hills Driver and is now trying to relive this world he is in love with.    I even suspect Gosling allowed himself to be stabbed at the end, as a type of sacrifice for the movie or possibly to punish himself.  He even does the 'never be late' speech straight from The Driver.  Without having read any confirmation, I'm sure The Driver was a massive influence on this film. 

 

Drive is probably my favorite film of the year, I love it.   While it works as a straightforward crime film, I love how there;s something unconventional running under neath the hood.  And even though Goslings character tries to act like a typical badass, thats part of what makes him atypical.

I...I don't know what to think of this.  I thought I've seen just how stupid people can be.  I was wrong.

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/drive-filmdistrict-lawsuit-ryan-gosling-245871

I seriously thought that link would lead to a story about people wrecking their cars in the L.A. River looking for Driver's magic garden.

You kidding me? I hope she wins. You have no idea how many millions im going to make from Michael Bay and Will Smith alone.

Screw that, I'm going to sue Universal for their ridiculously misleading trailers for The Scorpion King.

I'm going to sue all the online critics who asserted that Dark of the Moon wasn't nearly as excruciating a filmgoing experience as Revenge of the Fallen was.

 

 

He thinks he's extremely cool?  And he's socially awkward?  I didn't get that at all.  Driver just seems like someone with an extreme temper problem and a violent past who avoids people (by driving mostly) so he wont be set off again, and he can just channel his rage and conflicting emotions into the car.  And his seeming awkwardness is just him keeping a tight reign on himself.

 

Woooo, it's a great day for America.

You know what that awesome Michigan lady has done; now I can get reparations for this little movie here:

Fuck these guys for not giving me a Rambo movie, fuck them in their stupid assholes.

Are you saying she actually won?!?!?!?!?

In a world where one lady dares to dream, in a time when people are deprived of Paul Walker and Vin Diesel vehicles featuring vehicles, comes the greatest story ever told based on that one episode of Clerks the Animated Series...Drive 2: Fast Cash For The Fat Ass - Starring Kathy Bates as cracked out Michigan hooker lady, Anne Hathaway as her imaginary topless alter-ego, JK Simmons as the County Judge who dismisses the case after berating the plaintiff, with John Lithgow as the live in boyfriend with a heart of gold who only wants medicare for his pet turtle, and a brief cameo by Keanu Reeves who's just trying to find a private park bench to eat his sandwich.

Together they solve the deepest mystery of them all. What actually happened to Vera Farmiga that fateful night where she transformed from a College Hottie McAdams to a Milfy Looking Amy Ryan...Just don't sue us when the movie ends up being something it's not because we hired Charlie Kaufman to write the script, or maybe we did it that way so we'd complete the Trilogy with Drivel - A Micheal Apted Teleplay.

Drive seems to be inspiring all types of madness...it's even affecting Tiger Woods.

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/12/SPJ31LG9NG.DTL