Gary Oldman's A Republican

so is Robert Downey Jr. And Kurt Russell is a libertarian. Yeah it's a bummer to hear the truth about actors you like but at the end of the day there is art, and there is the artist.

Well, I had heard this, but I had never heard anything about Oldman being a dick about it. Your political affiliation should be a personal matter, unless you're an asshole to everyone regarding said views, i.e. Jon Voight. Downey has also stayed low profile, but when he's talked about being a Republican, it was in a way that was so rude and condescending to a liberal viewpoint that I found it hard to keep liking the guy.

You know who was also a major major major contributor to the Bush campaigns? Vince Vaughn and Sam Raimi. CHEW ON THAT, LIBERAL MOVIE FANS.

Well, if you spend 20 years mostly playing unstable villains, at some point ruthless selfishness is gonna start to make sense to you. But then, look at Nil By Mouth. Dude hates commoners & probably has good reason to.

Working/Lower Class British people tend to hate the Middle Classes more than the Upper Classes.

Oldman is suprising. But when Tim "Made in Britain" Roth goes over the the dark side, THAT'S when its dogs and cats living together/mass hysteria freakout time.

oh and Raimi is one of those people like Stallone, where you go into their movies knowing their politics, but you have to divorce yourself completely from that stuff and acknowledge that their films probably wouldn't be half as insanely enjoyable if these guys were any other way.

If we're talking about fiscal conservatism, I'm OK with it. It sucks if someone is greedy and doesn't want to share, but that's their prerogative. If we're talking religious conservatism though, they can fuck right off. I kind of doubt there are a lot of religious conservatives in Hollywood outside of Mel Gibson and the Scientologists.

As far as Oldman's statement about intolerance starting with liberalism -- I have to say as a liberal I sort of agree with him. Were as conservatives seem happy to bully and dismiss liberals, most of the extreme liberals I know would be happy with nothing short of eliminating the conservative viewpoint off the face of the earth. I've had some liberal friends say some truly scary shit about how we should handle conservatives. I'm a liberal and a Democrat, but I don't think liberals are any more tolerant of people with opposing viewpoints than conservatives, and perhaps less so.

Robert Davi. I don't know why that one surprised me, but it kinda hurt. Is that retarded?

So are we saying that THE CONTENDER might not have involved much acting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

As far as Oldman's statement about intolerance starting with liberalism -- I have to say as a liberal I sort of agree with him. Were as conservatives seem happy to bully and dismiss liberals, most of the extreme liberals I know would be happy with nothing short of eliminating the conservative viewpoint off the face of the earth. I've had some liberal friends say some truly scary shit about how we should handle conservatives. I'm a liberal and a Democrat, but I don't think liberals are any more tolerant of people with opposing viewpoints than conservatives, and perhaps less so.

I don't know, I've heard of liberalism referred to as a cancer much more often than conservatism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

I'm a liberal and a Democrat, but I don't think liberals are any more tolerant of people with opposing viewpoints than conservatives, and perhaps less so.

This thread's existence seems like proof of this statement.

Intolerance comes from adhering to a dogma, or picking a team or whatever. You live your life according to a set of rules or an ideology that make it easy to think that you're being a moral or upright person, that you're on the right team. And who knows? Maybe that helps some people. But it's a totally different sort of morality from the kind that arises when you have to look someone in the face and take them for a human being.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

 

As far as Oldman's statement about intolerance starting with liberalism -- I have to say as a liberal I sort of agree with him. Were as conservatives seem happy to bully and dismiss liberals, most of the extreme liberals I know would be happy with nothing short of eliminating the conservative viewpoint off the face of the earth. I've had some liberal friends say some truly scary shit about how we should handle conservatives. I'm a liberal and a Democrat, but I don't think liberals are any more tolerant of people with opposing viewpoints than conservatives, and perhaps less so.

Liberals are more intolerant than conservatives?  Are you fucking kidding?  Only someone truly clueless would think this.  Hermain Cain, Peter King, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reily, Pam Geller, etc, etc, virtually all of the most disgustingly racist, intolerant pundits and politicians are CONSERVATIVES.  Conservatives have a LONG history of being intolerant, this is hardly even debatable. 

The most intolerant and racist global news organisation on the planet is CONSERVATIVE, Newscorp.  Ever heard of FOX NEWS?  The SUN?  The Daily Mail?  Jesus fucking Christ, how the hell can anyone say liberals are more intolerant than conservatives?  Absolutely unbelievable. 

In fact, in the UK the conservative politicians were pushing for 'tolerating intolerance', as a way to justify their xenophobic racist views.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather 

Intolerance isn't bred by liberalism, it's bred by extremism.

I totally agree. And maybe it's because I've only ever lived on the coasts and know mostly liberals so I see a wider variety of them. But the few conservative friends I've had over the years will just basically huff and puff in the face of reason, where as my more extreme liberal friends will actually start talking genocide and sort of mean it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nabster 

Liberals are more intolerant than conservatives?  Are you fucking kidding?  Only someone truly clueless would think this.  Hermain Cain, Peter King, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reily, Pam Geller, etc, etc, virtually all of the most disgustingly racist, intolerant pundits and politicians are CONSERVATIVES.  Conservatives have a LONG history of being intolerant, this is hardly even debatable. 

 

The most intolerant and racist global news organisation on the planet is CONSERVATIVE, Newscorp.  Ever heard of FOX NEWS?  The SUN?  The Daily Mail?  Jesus fucking Christ, how the hell can anyone say liberals are more intolerant than conservatives?  Absolutely unbelievable. 

 

In fact, in the UK the conservative politicians were pushing for 'tolerating intolerance', as a way to justify their xenophobic racist views.

 

 

Dude I'm talking about tolerant of the other political viewpoint, not racism and shit. Calm the fuck down.

You know what, I walked into a hornets nest here and I don't want to be in it. I'm a liberal. Go team. Bye.

Does nobody remember Oldman's issues with the way The Contender turned out?  He was hoping for a film that was more even-handed in its politics, but called the film out for being blatantly liberal.

To be fair, the only actor I have any issue with his political views is Sean Penn (Dude, its ok to hate Bush and so on, but showing open support to a dictator douchebag like Chavez? fucking low, man), but yeah, actor's work and personality and its politics should never mix;  hell, isnt there a great story about how Henry Fonda and James Stewart remained friends by never talking about their clashing political views? i believe i read it somewhere.

I don't really care, surprisingly. There was a time when I would be livid about it. But what's the point? I guess once David "this watch is worth more than your fucking car" Mamet became a conservative, the rest just seems like small potatoes.

This adds an interesting layer to the fascist overtones in the Batman films. 

Guys like Downey Jr., and Oldman I can see being Republicans if for no other reason than both of them have a history of drugs, and alcohol in their background. A lot of recovering types I know tend to wind-up Conservative in their view-points, if for no other reason than the image of stability.

That being said as somebody who grew up both brown and gay in the South(Tennessee to be specific) it's always been hard to sympathize with Republicans whenever they pull out the "intolerance" card.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

 

As far as Oldman's statement about intolerance starting with liberalism -- I have to say as a liberal I sort of agree with him. Were as conservatives seem happy to bully and dismiss liberals, most of the extreme liberals I know would be happy with nothing short of eliminating the conservative viewpoint off the face of the earth. I've had some liberal friends say some truly scary shit about how we should handle conservatives. I'm a liberal and a Democrat, but I don't think liberals are any more tolerant of people with opposing viewpoints than conservatives, and perhaps less so.

I can't get behind this sentiment at all (which I guess means I'm intolerant or something).  I'm liberal, and I love nothing more than to make fun of Conservatives and point out their blatant hypocrisy, but at the end of the day, I'm not going to advocate that they all be killed or silenced or whatever.  They have every right to believe in and spout their nonsense, just like I have every right to not believe their generally hateful and short-sighted B.S.  I don't necessarily think that is intolerance, so much as it is the hallmark of opposing viewpoints.  Like I said, I would never advocate for them to be silenced, violently or otherwise.  The same cannot be said for a good deal of conservatives, especially those in positions of power (see Beck, Palin, Bush, etc).

As for Gary Oldman (and RDJ, whose politics I wasn't totally aware of), this revelation disappoints me.  They are still great actors, but that knowledge is now going to be nibbling at the back of my mind every time I watch one of their performances.

Seriously, this affects people's views of the performances? Really? They're not rapists or murderers, they're human beings with different philosophies about how a government should govern. That's it. I understand not wanting to support Polanski, or being uncomfortable with old OJ Simpson films. But politics? Let's get a reality check here. If Downey and Oldman joined the Hitler Youth, that would be one thing. But they're just Republicans, like my uncle Perry, whom I often vehemently disagree with, but he's still my uncle and I still love him, just like I still love Oldman and (to a lesser extent) Downey. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather 

Oh, I know. Oldman being both British and working-class into the bargain stings extra-hard, though. I can't join the dots between the fierce, incisive performer of PRICK UP YOUR EARS and SID AND NANCY with the guy I've just read about being a strong supporter of Bush and scornful of liberals.

If they don't become born again, many recovering alcoholics can swing quite fiercely to the right and become seriously conservative in my experience. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackyShimSham 

Seriously, this affects people's views of the performances? Really? They're not rapists or murderers, they're human beings with different philosophies about how a government should govern. That's it. I understand not wanting to support Polanski, or being uncomfortable with old OJ Simpson films. But politics? Let's get a reality check here. If Downey and Oldman joined the Hitler Youth, that would be one thing. But they're just Republicans, like my uncle Perry, whom I often vehemently disagree with, but he's still my uncle and I still love him, just like I still love Oldman and (to a lesser extent) Downey. 

I never said this was going to turn me off from their performances completely.  Both are great actors, and I'm still a fan of their work, but now there will always be that slight sense of disappointment in knowing that they support such awful people.  That's all there is to it for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega 

Guys like Downey Jr., and Oldman I can see being Republicans if for no other reason than both of them have a history of drugs, and alcohol in their background. A lot of recovering types I know tend to wind-up Conservative in their view-points, if for no other reason than the image of stability.

And people who have hit those real low points in life sometime find God later, so certain viewpoints flow easier, become more acceptable.

Also I've heard those on the right use the phrase "a liberal who got mugged" before, but I think there might be some truth to it. Something big or shocking that happens that the mind can't properly process and he/she unnecessarily makes it into a turning point. Like Dennis Miller after the attacks (not that anyone should give a shit what he thinks, just using that as an example)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega 

Guys like Downey Jr., and Oldman I can see being Republicans if for no other reason than both of them have a history of drugs, and alcohol in their background. A lot of recovering types I know tend to wind-up Conservative in their view-points, if for no other reason than the image of stability.

 

 

That being said as somebody who grew up both brown and gay in the South(Tennessee to be specific) it's always been hard to sympathize with Republicans whenever they pull out the "intolerance" card.

The drug thing makes a lot of sense. All of the addicts I've ever known have swung pretty hard to the right eventually. I think that it might have something to do with feeling individually empowered? I know American conservatism is really susceptible to groupthink (like any other gigantic club), but a lot of their rhetoric hinges on that. Keep government out of my life because I don't need it, I'm a rough and tumble Uhmurcan individualist, etc. Admitting that you need someone or something just doesn't sit well with some people, usually because it makes them feel powerless. A lot of addicts, in my experience, feel really uncomfortable if they feel like they're not "in control".

What has Downey said that was insulting about liberalism? I'm just curious. But yeah, former junkies and drunks tend to have fucked politics. AA and the like are creepy cults.

And speaking of Mel Gibson, he isn't even a Republican surprisingly. There were people trying to recruit him to run as a Republican, and he said something to the effect about Bush and Cheney being war-mongers.

The mere existence of this fucking thread pisses me off.  Unless that person is running for office, I honestly don't think it's anyone's business what their party affiliation is.

Sebastian OB, this is for you:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-27-2011/gop---special-victims-unit

Sincerely,

a "Demonic" lefty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarence Boddicker 

AA and the like are creepy cults.

So you think AA has no value? Do you think those types of support groups don't serve a vital function in helping individuals cope with their addiction issues? "Creepy cults" sort of rules out any positive inferment. Perhaps there's a better way to say that? Or is that flat-out how you feel? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Olson 

I never said this was going to turn me off from their performances completely.  Both are great actors, and I'm still a fan of their work, but now there will always be that slight sense of disappointment in knowing that they support such awful people.  That's all there is to it for me.

I would agree with that. 

By the way guys, very interesting correlation being drawn here between issues with substance abuse/ loss of control and the belief systems that result from that. Fascinating, thought-provoking stuff.  

Grrrrrrr, I hate that an actor I like has different political viewpoints than me! I will shit on my 5th Element DVD because Bruce Willis and Gary Oldman support the Republicans....oh, and Milla Jovovich keeps making those awful Resident Evil movies. I hate those too, grrrr.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLassiter 

Grrrrrrr, I hate that an actor I like has different political viewpoints than me! I will shit on my 5th Element DVD because Bruce Willis and Gary Oldman support the Republicans....oh, and Milla Jovovich keeps making those awful Resident Evil movies. I hate those too, grrrr.....

Because that's exactly what we're all saying here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Olson 

Because that's exactly what we're all saying here.

Grrrrrrr.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

Dude I'm talking about tolerant of the other political viewpoint, not racism and shit. Calm the fuck down.

 

Intolerance and racism IS a political point of view.  But even if you want to narrowly define this to prove a point, you're still completely wrong as proved over and over.  Who just hijacked the global economy and stubbornly refused to negotiate with Obama on the debt deal due to their intolerance of another point of view?  The conservatives, as usual.

And if liberals are so intolerant of other points of view then why is their voting record so fractured?  While the Republicans always vote on point; Republicans virtually ALWAYS vote conservative.  There's just no way in hell liberals are more intolerant than conservatives in any manner.

I'm tired of people trying to equate the liberals and conservatives as being two sides of the same problem, or of people claiming they're both equally close-minded.  It's a ridiculous and lazy argument Fox News likes to perpetuate, but has zero basis in reality.  They're not equally close-minded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLassiter 

Grrrrrrr, I hate that an actor I like has different political viewpoints than me! I will shit on my 5th Element DVD because Bruce Willis and Gary Oldman support the Republicans....oh, and Milla Jovovich keeps making those awful Resident Evil movies. I hate those too, grrrr.....

now that I know  Oldmans' political affiliation, his role as Zorg in The 5th Element seems strangely apropos....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nabster 

 

 

I'm tired of people trying to equate the liberals and conservatives as being two sides of the same problem, or of people claiming they're both equally close-minded.  It's a ridiculous and lazy argument Fox News likes to perpetuate, but has zero basis in reality.  They're not equally close-minded.

 

 

 

Actually, yes they are. For decades Liberalism was the reining cultural and political default position for Americans. It was really only with the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980 that Conservatism gained wide acceptance. From the 1940's to the late 70's all the types of comments in this thread were voiced and believed by a majority of people (on the Coasts at least: in the MidWest and South people might hold Conservative values but generally didn't voice them for fear of being derided). Sure the pendulum has now swung back to the Right, but there is a history there you should look into. (oh and a lot of the tactics used by today's Tea party come straight from the New Left of the 60;s including the Nihilism.)

And look over the comments in this thread! "I can't watch Gary Oldman act now without feeling disappointed!" "Conservatives are really just Juiceheads that have dried up. Lost a lot of brain cells from their drinky drinky, don'tcha know?" Christ, the lack of self awareness in this thread is mind boggling.

OH, and FYI? Voted for Obama in 2008 and most likely will do so in 2012. So don't even.

Hm here's an article which makes an interesting point:

"

"Conservatives don't necessarily have to be covert about their politics, but in many cases they are because the liberals aren't fair and balanced towards those with differing points of view," says Jerry Molen, the Oscar-winning producer of big Hollywood hits like "Schindler's List," "Jurassic Park" and "Rain Man."

"In too many cases, conservatives are immediately labeled racist, homophobic, bigoted, hateful, demonic, or even un-American without the benefit of debate, and are locked out of the hiring process, with a few exceptions."

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.S. Randlett 

....I know American conservatism is really susceptible to groupthink (like any other gigantic club), but a lot of their rhetoric hinges on that.

as far as the current crop of GOP/TeaParty members, the above sentence is a huge understatement.

Sure, there is a degree of liberal 'groupthink', but conservatives are in love with and revel in it.

John Dean wrote a  3-part series a while back on authoritarian conservatism and how it's infected today's GOP.

Part 1 Understanding the Contemporary Republican Party: Authoritarians Have Taken Control

Part 2 Why Authoritarians Now Control the Republican Party: The Rise of Authoritarian Conservatism

Part 3 The Impact of Authoritarian Conservatism On American Government

this is from Part 3 ...of note, this series of articles were written back in 2007

"I'm tolerant, but it will bother me just a bit watching performances of actors whose political views are different than my own"

What a stupid useless position to hold.

Edit:  Never mind.