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Also, I never thought I'd say this, but Joshua Jackson is really the emotional core of the show. He's doing such a bang up job, and his rapport with all the other actors is great.
Agreed. In the early seasons I always got a sense of "this is all beneath me" cynicism from him. But he's knocking it out of the fucking park this year.
See, my issue with the whole season is that I'm not sure it matters: whether it's universes, timelines, memory wipes, what have you, it's just a series of obstacles to be removed on the way to Liv, Peter, and Walter re-establishing the relationships that we know they're fated for. The personal appeal of the actors, and occasional terrific episode (like Astrid's), is, for me, what is carrying this show, not the specifcs of how and why their sci-fi concepts work (or don't).
It's all but confirmed that this is the original timeline. Peter going into the machine "erased" him from the timeline causing history to be rewritten*. Whatever the cause (the Observor mentioned something about him having a strong "energy"), Peter "leaked" back into the timeline. The Observor was supposed to re-erase Peter, but for some reason chose not to. As for why Liv would all of a sudden regain her originial memories, that's anyone's guess. I won't be angry if they never explain it, but it will certainly feel like a failure. As others have said, without any ties to the overall mythology, the loss of memory will just feel like a ploy to "reboot" the series for new viewers while shitting on loyal fans.
*This is the only part of Fringe's sci-fi elements that really bugs me.
As others have said, without any ties to the overall mythology, the loss of memory will just feel like a ploy to "reboot" the series for new viewers while shitting on loyal fans.
That's an odd criticism though, since the show was as far from a simple reboot as is possible. The storyline has been -more- complicated, not less. I don't see how it can be argued that they were writing to grasp at a new audience. If anything, the complexity of what they've been doing has made the show completely inaccessible to new viewers. It feels like the kind of storyline you only attempt when you know you're not getting renewed.
It's not about mythos complexity. It is about reintroducing the characters so new people could get to know them from scratch. With the "amnesia" (for lack of a better term), newbies got to "meet" the whole crew, learn their back stories, and figure out how they relate to each other because these characters were for all intent and purposes new characters. It's a connection to characters that draws people in, not necessarily the mythology and new viewers could easily grasp who these "new" people were because there was so much exposition describing their "new" relationships. But many long time viewers have found these reintroductions tedious. We spent years getting to know these people and the folks we were watching for the better part of this season were not the same people. I've warmed up to the season as a whole, but it is not as satisfying as it could be because it feels like a waiting game to get back to were we were. The fact that Liv magically got her memories back just confirms my suspicion that we've been in a holding pattern. It sucks that as this is likely the last season, I had to spend so much time away from the characters I've grown to love.
Don't hold your breath on that. I think they explained it with The Obervor's comment about his energy bleeding through.
It is about reintroducing the characters so new people could get to know them from scratch. With the "amnesia" (for lack of a better term), newbies got to "meet" the whole crew, learn their back stories, and figure out how they relate to each other because these characters were for all intent and purposes new characters.
If that was the intent, it sure wasn't handled well. I can't imagine a new viewer being able to take in two worlds' worth of twins, each with pre-established relationships. The show pretty much required knowledge of the previous seasons as Cliff's Notes to jump off from.
While you may have found the 'reboot' distancing (and I tend to agree), I've enjoyed the hard-sci-fi angle of it, and the show's assertion that regardless of the universe they're in, these people are at their core, the same.
Yep. Well, not necessarily them specifically, but some members of our core team for certain.
When Peter went into the machine, he disappeared and we were told by the The Observer that he was "erased" from both the A & B universe's timelines. But energy can't disappear, it just changes form. So it seems that the fact that Peter ever existed meant he was tethered to these universes. And his connection to Liv and Walter was so strong, he eventually "reappeared". If they ever explain it more than that, I'd be shocked.
I'm not sure why you keep referring to the "future". The Fringe team are in the same year they were in when Peter went in the machine. It's just that their lives were altered because in this "new" timeline, Peter never existed.
If that was the intent, it sure wasn't handled well. I can't imagine a new viewer being able to take in two worlds' worth of twins, each with pre-established relationships. The show pretty much required knowledge of the previous seasons as Cliff's Notes to jump off from.
While you may have found the 'reboot' distancing (and I tend to agree), I've enjoyed the hard-sci-fi angle of it, and the show's assertion that regardless of the universe they're in, these people are at their core, the same.
It's the only explanation I've heard for why they "rebooted" the show. And there was so much exposition in the first several eps, new people could definitely catch up. But yeah, it was not handled well.
Me too. I don't have any major issues with the show, and the past several eps have been fan-fucking-tastic. Still, it's hard for me to really love this season because on a small level it feels like we had rewatch the past few season all over again. Like I said above, I missed the camaraderie and rapport that was built up over seasons of meticulous care. And while it's true that they are same people at heart, they were in every other sense not the same people. Having Walter revert back to his agoraphobic self was a huge mistake. Having Peter have to introduce himself to every character over and over was annoying. I've come around as the characters have come around. But like I said, still a little disappointing. I'll concede that it could be that part of my feelings stem from Lost Season 6 fatigue. I hated the "reboot" then, and I hate it now.
Ugh, thanks Diva, I had repressed LS6 in my mind and now it's all flooding back. Time to jab the ice pick back into my brain.
And we had Olivia's niece all grown up in Fringe. I never could tell if that was a vision shown to Peter by the machine or if he actually experienced it. I think the Observers had a role in it, they've been anything but as far as we've known them.
Strange. I don't recall being on the money.
Maybe Peter punched reality Superboy style?
Anyway, here's my fan-wanky theory: Caution, some of these ideas come from what little I understand of Quantum Theory. There are infinite universes created at any time by an infinite number of outcomes of infinite actions. However each of these universes is associated with the probability that the action that spawned happened. Let me explain. Say I'm putting on my shoes in the morning. There is a 60% probability I will tie my left boot first. One universe at 60% probability. There is a 39% probability I will tie my right boot first. Another universe at 39% probability. There is a 0.999% probability that I will leave my boots untied. Another one at 0.999% probability. There is also a 0.001% probability that I will forget to put shoes on. So we have four parallel universes each at 60%, 39%, 0.999% and 0.001% probability.
However, say for example that exactly 60 seconds into the timeline I'm standing at my elevator door pushing the button with my boots tied. That moment creates an anchor point that causes the 60% universe and the 39% universe to "collapse" into each other. Peter's interaction with Olivia may be one such anchor point. And just as could see the "shimmer" of people from the alt-universe her brain's exposure to Cortexiphan enables her to experience this "collapse" by re-integrating her pre-Peter erasing incident memories into her mind.
Olivia's Cortexiphan charged mind probably caused Peter's re-appearance, too. She kept experiencing the residue of his presence in the timeline, therefore creating the need for him to exist again.
Olivia's Cortexiphan charged mind probably caused Peter's re-appearance, too. She kept experiencing the residue of his presence in the timeline, therefore creating the need for him to exist again.
That's probably the best theory I've heard as to why Peter reappeared.
They actually provided an explanation for why Peter would reappear. In the episode where the couple who had each lost a version of each other threatened to collapse at least a portion of both worlds. 'Quantum entanglement' was the term thy used.
If Peter and Olivia are so 'entangled' (and as important as the romance has become to the show's story, that seems a safe assumption), then it would not be possible to completely separate them. When Peter was detached from reality by the machine, Olivia would essentially act as an anchor, pulling him back from the 'ether'.
The same entanglement could explain Olivia's memories, as Peter's very existence could act as an anchor to the part of her life that they shared.
They could use the cortexiphan as an explanation for why it happened when it did, or it could just be explained by that being the point in time when Peter was 'detached'.
I wonder if Olivia's newfound memories will facilitate a very long-distance escape next episode... :)
For better or worse, we'll find out this week.
We'll finally get some answers about The Observers at long last. Really looking forward to it.
I totally forgot about this. I might need a refresher.
Olivia's Cortexiphan charged mind probably caused Peter's re-appearance, too. She kept experiencing the residue of his presence in the timeline, therefore creating the need for him to exist again.
I'm not sure I buy this theory. Walter was seeing Peter, too. And Peter was clearly the one in charge. He was asking for help when he appeared to Liv and Walter.
They actually provided an explanation for why Peter would reappear. In the episode where the couple who had each lost a version of each other threatened to collapse at least a portion of both worlds. 'Quantum entanglement' was the term thy used.
If Peter and Olivia are so 'entangled' (and as important as the romance has become to the show's story, that seems a safe assumption), then it would not be possible to completely separate them. When Peter was detached from reality by the machine, Olivia would essentially act as an anchor, pulling him back from the 'ether'.
The same entanglement could explain Olivia's memories, as Peter's very existence could act as an anchor to the part of her life that they shared.
They could use the cortexiphan as an explanation for why it happened when it did, or it could just be explained by that being the point in time when Peter was 'detached'.
I wonder if Olivia's newfound memories will facilitate a very long-distance escape next episode... :)
I buy this more than other explanations put forth, but I still can't reconcile it with the fact that BOTH Walter and Liv were seeing Peter.
Of course they were both seeing him once he started connecting with the world. I'm theorizing that it was Olivia's mind that gave him the point to latch on to.
Peter was never disconnected from the world. He might have disappeared as a physical human being, but he was always connected to the timeline (energy can't die). The show has been consistent that Peter and Liv have a strong connection (there was that flashback ep in the original timeline when they had met as kids), so I'm not opposed to Liv being the cause of Peter's reappearance. My main issue is her sudden ability to remember the original timeline. Right now it feels like a deus ex machina, and I'd love for it to be tied to something concrete in the show. It seems the show will likely link it to the cortexiphan shots, but I'm not sure I buy that. She'd been getting shots for some time (even prior to Peter reappearing) and her flashes of Peter stopped once he arrived. It's just mighty convenient that she just all of a sudden remembers.
Wait-- seriously, a MONTH between tonight's ep and the next one? As if there were any question that Fox has given up on this show...
A lot of shows go on hiatus for a few weeks around now, it's not unique to Fringe.
I know they typically hold back to have something ready for sweeps, but a full four weeks is more the kind of break you see over the holidays. And while it's not unique to Fringe, a ratings-impaired show that is so dependent on a season-long mystery is in a position to be uniquely harmed by the interruption.
But, as I say, probably moot anyway.
It's probably getting out of the way of the NCAA tournament. They have games on Friday nights.
It's probably getting out of the way of the NCAA tournament. They have games on Friday nights.
Do NOT fucking remind me.
(been a lousy season for my team)
Given the ratings, I'm not getting my hopes up.
So... now that the "Observer" ep has aired... anyone rethinking their theories? :)
Out of all the wonderful special effects we've seen on the show, I think September's low tech death/disappearance effect was exactly the right way to garner a WTF reaction from the viewer. So I'm guessing the Observers are highly advanced humans who are from a million years in the future? Not a bad reveal at all.
Out of all the wonderful special effects we've seen on the show, I think September's low tech death/disappearance effect was exactly the right way to garner a WTF reaction from the viewer. So I'm guessing the Observers are highly advanced humans who are from a million years in the future? Not a bad reveal at all.
Basically September really knows how to make an entrance. *POIT
I kinda hated this episode. It's plausible that David's henchmen could be from the other timeline, but no one on the Fringe team even suspects that our Nina might be telling the truth and another Nina stole the cortexiphan? The Observors can see everything at once, but they can't see where September is? Jones is literally recreating his plan from season 1 (2?)? September says he has much to tell Peter but then tells him a bunch of information he already knew?* And September's been saying Peter's "important" for years now. Let's hope we actually learn what that means. Ugh. This ep was all exposition and not a lot of pay off. I hope I soften on it this by next week.
*Yes, it was cool to learn The Observors are advanced humans.
I kinda hated this episode. It's plausible that David's henchmen could be from the other timeline, but no one on the Fringe team even suspects that our Nina might be telling the truth and another Nina stole the cortexiphan? The Observors can see everything at once, but they can't see where September is? Jones is literally recreating his plan from season 1 (2?)? September says he has much to tell Peter but then tells him a bunch of information he already knew?* And September's been saying Peter's "important" for years now. Let's hope we actually learn what that means. Ugh. This ep was all exposition and not a lot of pay off. I hope I soften on it this by next week.
*Yes, it was cool to learn The Observors are advanced humans.
Not figuring out that Nina could have a double was an annoyance for sure. I mostly ignored it since Peter wouldn't much care at that point, and Olivia did figure it out.
The Observers can't see everything at once. If they could, there wouldn't need to be more than one of them. I can imagine searching every possible future for one bald guy would be difficult.
Why wouldn't Jones have the same plan? He's the same person! I thought it worked great, since we never saw Jones' endgame the first time around.
September can't tell Peter too much, both for narrative mystery and for the simple time-travel rule that the more you mess with the past, the less control you have over the future. His main goal is just to put Peter together with Olivia. We can assume that when he "saw all possible futures", the best outcomes were the ones that began with Olivia going Electro on Jones' man.
What's interesting to me is that Peter was always 'supposed' to end up with Olivia-A. But he was Walternate's son, born in world B. Meaning that Peter was always supposed to cross worlds, regardless of whether Walter stole him as a sick boy. That lays out a pretty good idea of what the Observer's 'true' timeline was:
Peter-A dies.
Peter-B is cured by Walternate.
Walter and Bell still cross over to world-B, for other reasons.
World-B still falls apart, and blames world-A.
Peter crosses over, meets Olivia-A, and has a child with her.
Peter does something 'important', most likely saving the two worlds, perhaps by using a variant of "The Machine" and/or by stopping Jones.
Wasn't a fan of this ep. Instead of advancing the plot, it just returned us to the status quo of 3 weeks ago. I felt we were getting closer and closer to getting back the Fringe team we know and love but it's once again yanked away by Peter's exclamation that this isn't his Olivia.
Sadly, I agree that this was a misfire. This was their chance to blow everything wide open for one more time and they just chose to limit themselves. And September's exposition was crap.
One other thing - have they ever explained who that guy from the shitty animated episode last season was? The guy on the blimp whom Olivia said was going to kill her.
The more I think about The Observor scene the more I get annoyed. How is telling Peter that he is meant to be with Liv important information? Peter was already trying to "get back" to her. All it did was set in motion the impetus for Peter to rebuff his renewed relationship with Liv so that the writers could drag out this storyline as long as possible. If September's endgame is to get Peter and Liv together, the only information he needs to say is "this is your Liv, have at her". And quite frankly I would be okay with that as I am not a huge fan of this reboot anyway. I tolerate it because I hope that it has some meaningful connection to the mythology.
Not figuring out that Nina could have a double was an annoyance for sure. I mostly ignored it since Peter wouldn't much care at that point, and Olivia did figure it out.
The Observers can't see everything at once. If they could, there wouldn't need to be more than one of them. I can imagine searching every possible future for one bald guy would be difficult.
Why wouldn't Jones have the same plan? He's the same person! I thought it worked great, since we never saw Jones' endgame the first time around.
September can't tell Peter too much, both for narrative mystery and for the simple time-travel rule that the more you mess with the past, the less control you have over the future. His main goal is just to put Peter together with Olivia. We can assume that when he "saw all possible futures", the best outcomes were the ones that began with Olivia going Electro on Jones' man.
What's interesting to me is that Peter was always 'supposed' to end up with Olivia-A. But he was Walternate's son, born in world B. Meaning that Peter was always supposed to cross worlds, regardless of whether Walter stole him as a sick boy. That lays out a pretty good idea of what the Observer's 'true' timeline was:
Peter-A dies.
Peter-B is cured by Walternate.
Walter and Bell still cross over to world-B, for other reasons.
World-B still falls apart, and blames world-A.
Peter crosses over, meets Olivia-A, and has a child with her.
Peter does something 'important', most likely saving the two worlds, perhaps by using a variant of "The Machine" and/or by stopping Jones.
How do you think this fits with September's comment to Olivia that she dies in "all possible futures"?
Without some sense of context or motivation, Jones as a "Big Baddie" doesn't interest me. He didn't then, and he doesn't now.
How do you think this fits with September's comment to Olivia that she dies in "all possible futures"?
Good question. The two scenarios I see are:
1) This isn't Peter's Olivia, so her death can happen without altering the original timeline.
2) This is Peter's Olivia, and September cannot forsee any way to restore the original timeline.
After this episode, I'd currently go with scenario #2. September, even through the Observer monotone, seemed sad. His previously specifically visited -this- Olivia, to deliver what I can only interpret now as an apology. Telling her that he could not find a future in which she lived served no constructive purpose; it seemed more like a (dying) admission of his failure.
The fun thing is that either case could work narratively. The stakes, while not as high as if we really thought they would kill off the (original) lead character, are genuine.
It'll also be interesting to see how September gets shot, since with their non-linear time, it's a virtual certainty that we'll see it happen in a future episode.
I don't think people are doing themselves any favors saying that the show is now in a new timeline vs a new universe. What I mean is that I think people are confusing the two. I've thought for a while that Peter never left the original A & B universes, but when he disappeared due to the machine, him (and anything he effected since the change point with the Observer back at the lake as a child) was removed from the overall timeline. It didn't help that the writers have made it a bit confusing having Peter continually saying he needs to get back to his universe. Given how smart the show has shown Peter and Walter to be, one would think that both characters may have at least ponder the possibility that Peter, and his history beyond the lake drowning, was removed from the universe's timeline and so all the effects he's ever contributed has lead to where/when they are now. Hell, it sounds confusing when I say it even.
Let's be honest, they should have never started this ridiculous storyline to begin with.
Well, there IS another timeline. The one with Peter originally in it. What there ISN'T though, is another universe from which Peter came from. Although technically, I guess there is some universe out there where the events occurred which would have led to this current storyline, but going by the show's mythology any other universe outside of universe B is too far to connect to as we have seen between the 2 main universes.
I don't think people are doing themselves any favors saying that the show is now in a new timeline vs a new universe. What I mean is that I think people are confusing the two. I've thought for a while that Peter never left the original A & B universes, but when he disappeared due to the machine, him (and anything he effected since the change point with the Observer back at the lake as a child) was removed from the overall timeline. It didn't help that the writers have made it a bit confusing having Peter continually saying he needs to get back to his universe. Given how smart the show has shown Peter and Walter to be, one would think that both characters may have at least ponder the possibility that Peter, and his history beyond the lake drowning, was removed from the universe's timeline and so all the effects he's ever contributed has lead to where/when they are now. Hell, it sounds confusing when I say it even.
Let's be honest, they should have never started this ridiculous storyline to begin with.
I disagree. I think that each universe is a different timeline, representing a chain of events that are slightly different from one another. However, due to Walter's meddling, Univers A & B's timelines converged when he stole Peter from Universe B and brought him to Universe A. Where we can agree, though, is that when Peter entered the machine, he was "erased" from existence, causing the timelines in Universe A and B to alter to accommodate his disappearance. So what we are currently witnessing is the original timelines for Universes A & B as they would have occurred without Peter in it. It makes sense that Peter thinks he is in another universe as he doesn't recognize the one he's in and he knows there are infinite universes out there. But yeah, his insistence can add to viewer confusion.
My impression (hope?) with the season had been that this altered timeline would be a fun diversion for awhile and then Peter would do something to make everything revert back to the original timeline. But it seems like we are stuck here, and the game plan is for Peter to a) realize that he is already "home" and b) convince everyone else that this is the case. This season basically erased three+ years of work building relationships that we've come to invest in and thrown it all out, essentially starting from scratch. All season long, we've had to watch people who should have deeply personal connections act like they don't know each other, and had to listen to Peter repeating ad nauseum, "I have to get back to MY Olivia; MY universe"*. I find this all deeply unsatisfying.
So if the show is sticking with this timeline - which it seems to be based on this last ep - then the rest of the season will involve Olivia trying to convince people she's the "real" Olivia, Peter coming around that he is in "his" universe, and possibly Walter and co. regaining their memories. This seems like a tedious amount of work just to get us back to the status quo. At the heart of this show, its about a tight knit family that solves cool mysteries. You break up the family, it messes with what makes this show work so well.
*Seriously, this story line is treading too closely to Lost's final seasons. I half expect Jack to pop up, screaming "WE HAVE TO GO BACK!"
At least they understand that people are frustrated, though unlike the interviewer, I don't find it "fascinating":
This has turned into a pretty robust discussion. Kudos, folks.
