Fringe season 4 - Page 2

I just don't know what's going on with the show anymore. Not only with the characters, but the war between the 2 universes set some great stakes for the 2nd and 3rd seasons, now that they're working together (doing what, I'm not quite sure) there doesn't seem to be much going on. I'm sure the writers have some new overarching threat in mind, but I hope they introduce it soon. 

Those new style shapeshifters may have something to do with the new threat. Plus the whole Observer thing has barely been touched upon.

I think the Observers may end up being the new "bad guys". This is the "correct" timeline to them... but it SUCKS for all of the main characters in the "A" universe. If they are determined to preserve  a version of events without Peter and with all of our characters so miserable, things could get contentious.

Their "fixed" timeline didn't even eliminate the deterioration of the worlds as far as we know.

This is probably going to end up as a set of episodes that works best on DVD, where viewers don't have to wait a month and a half to get to the meat of the season. They definitely could've done a better job of keeping the stakes high, but I'm not worried. 

I thought the whole exercise in joining the timelines at the end of last season was so they could work together to solve all the deterioration occurring on both sides? I find it a bit weird that they haven't shown Walternate at all (maybe they did but I can't remember him once this season) and the writers are really seeming to gloss over some big plot holes that dedicated viewers would catch (e.g., how did the machine turn on without any of Peter's DNA, does Peter still have a kid with BOlivia, etc.).

I think Peter being around will be the show's excuse for telling the audience what's different in this timeline.

Slowly catching up. I don't have cable anymore and Fox has an 8 day delay on current eps, so its been hard gaining access to episodes. Just watched the first 2 eps. I was a little disappointed in the pilot. I didn't really think they'd do a full reboot, but they did. All the work they put into Olivia being likeable is gone. I can't tell you how much I dislike Olivia being cold and emotionless again. And Peter's loss is most felt in watching Walter. It's so sad seeing Walter be helpless again after watching him gain some semblance of a fully realized life. Not to mention his rapport with Peter. I will concede that Walter's quirks (his fascination with candy, calling people the wrong name) remain and continue to entertain. Further, there's only so much bitchiness I can take between the two Olivias. That got old REAL quick.

I dig that they brought Lee on in the A Universe. It doesn't make sense that Liv wouldn't recognize him from her time in Alt B, but I'll give it a pass. Broyles B is back! Really dug the MoW story in the second ep. It was a little bit of a cop out to have the Alb B serial killer off himself, but the actor really played out the whole scene where he come face to face with himself well. Loved the juxtaposition of Broyles telling Liv he believes important people in our lives remain in our souls with Walter hearing Peter's voice. I'm curious where Peter is exactly. Another universe, some space-time continuum, just part of their collective consciousness... I'm interested to see what The Observer with the heart of gold is going to do. He had an opportunity to fully erase Peter, but chose not to. Why? If I recall correctly, he saved Peter as a child because he was meant to do "important" things. Seemingly, Peter has done it. He saved two universes from being destroyed. Why keep him around, from the Observer's point of view.

So the reboot: Walter still kidnaps Peter B who dies in Alt A as a kid, Liv still gets kidnapped, shapeshifters still invade Alt A. I just realized the reboot means no Peter Jr. Great way to write out a baby!

I'm not excited as I was in Season 3, but I'm hoping they pick up the pace to get Pacey back! And if not, they have to soften Olivia. I can't deal with Season 1 Liv again. I just came around on her!

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Originally Posted by Diva 

I didn't really think they'd do a full reboot, but they did. All the work they put into Olivia being likeable is gone. I can't tell you how much I dislike Olivia being cold and emotionless again.

Disagree.  She's not quite as open emotionally as she was pre-Bridge/post-Peter, but she's not the cold Olivia of Season 1 and 2 all over again.  Just look at her interactions with Walter, and to a lesser degree with Astrid and Lee (after he gets brought into Fringe division).  She's not cheerful, but she's a hell of a lot warmer than she was before. 

I keep feeling that they are threading water like they did in early Season 3.

We all knew that Peter was coming back. The same way we knew "Our" Olivia would be returning back in Season 3. Fringe was never a big hit in the ratings, so while this new "Peter Missing" timeline is interesting. I much prefer that they focus on moving the story forward instead. No more "filler" episodes please.

I remember the Fringe team going and saving some young bald kid a couple of seasons back. The kid was trapped underground for who knows how long and there was no apparent way he could have gotten trapped in that location. There was even a thread dangled at the end of the episode about some other government division knowing about who/what the kid was and wanting to get a hold of him as well. Anyway, after seeing the episode, I always thought the kid was tied to the Observers in some way. It's been hinted that the Observers may actually exist outside of time as we know it and so maybe that saved bald kid may be the Observer with the heart of gold that we all know and love.

On the now gone baby, I wondered on that earlier in the thread and I'm still wondering now how exactly did Walternate turn on the machine then? The ancient document with the machine on it also showed a clear drawing of Peter. Nonetheless, no Peter, no baby. So then how did it tricked into getting turned on? I mean, it's clearly evident that the machine is setup for a person to be connected to it but no one seems to notice/give a shit. It's very frustrating.

Wow. Good point with your last comment. It does seem that they didn't really think through the ramifications of the reboot.

And felix, I wouldn't call these episodes filler per se. Fringe has always gone back and forth between mythology and straight up Monster of the Week episodes. As long as they entertain on the latter, I'm cool. I'm just annoyed because there really was a great dynamic between Liv, Peter and Walter that has now been taken away. And while the show is not bad by any stretch of the imagination, knowing what we had diminishes what we have currently.

Heard a rumour that this week's episode may be postponed due to the World Series rescheduling.

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Originally Posted by felix 

Heard a rumour that this week's episode may be postponed due to the World Series rescheduling.

Yep, if the Cardinals win tomorrow and force a game seven. (Or if game six is rained out again.)

All caught up with the last two eps. Holy shit! Now this is what I'm talking about. Loved episode 3, with the little boy. It was a nice mix of MOW with a little mythology. Ep 4 was part Ghostbusters part Poltergeist. I had a blast with it. I especially love it when they bring the other cortexaphan kids into play. The guy who played Cameron was great. ("You ever try raisin toast?") They totally need to have a spin off show a la Heroes, but not as shitty, with all the kids using their powers for good. Finally, they brought my boy Pacey back home! I can't wait to see how this plays out.

So it seems that in this timeline Bell and Walter still tested on kids; Bell removed parts of Walters brain to keep him from turning into Dr. Evil, which in turn resulting in the mental ward; Peter 2 was still kidnapped, but drowned in Raiden Lake; and somehow Nina knew Olivia while she was growing up (what was that crack about prom about?). I'm also now less concerned with the inconsistencies between timelines as I just figured they are in Universe C now. When Peter entered the machine, it caused the timeline to split. But as time exists simultaneously (the past, present, future is always happening), that it affect things that happened previously in the timeline as well.

Totally digging this season after a shaky first ep, but understand the concerns of felling like we're back at square one - which is exactly what the writers wanted to bring new people on board.

I've actually liked what I've seen thus far.  I think eventually they're going to reset things back to the way they were (or a close proximity) before Peter got erased though. There's things you can get away with and chalk up to "not having a plan" but I can't believe writers would set up this whole storyline with such a gaping plothole (who turned on the machine in the first place in both Universes if Peter wasn't around?) and not have an out. Also, I can't remember but did Peter ever find out he had a son? 'Cause if he did I gotta think that his son's erasure from existence would probably be something he'd want to fix.

Kudo's also for not going with the whole "Peter returns but he has amnesia so we have to spend three or four eps with him trying to find out who he is while slowly making his way to Fringe Division" story arc.

Also, anybody have a feeling that there's another Universe in play here now though? Those biological shapeshifters from the premiere coupled with Walter's paranoia about Walternate screamed red herring to me.

If you go with my theory that they are in Universe C, then Peter still existed in Universe A and B to turn on the machine and father a child. In the current timeline, Peter could not have fathered a baby because he never met Bolivia. And it is entirely possible that the machine is tuned into someone other than Peter.

But I don't you rejoicing over Peter having amnesia. It's worse. The entire Universe C has amnesia. We have to spend weeks having Liv, Walter, Broyles, Astril, etc. catching up to speed.

wonder if Game 7 is going to screw up the schedule, since a new episode was slated for tonight.

Pretty sure it's just getting pushed to next week.

Pushed to next week.

Yeah I figured this would happen. Oh well, that just means the season will last one week extra! Haha.

Well the end of the episode where Olivia has her dejavu moment caught me off guard. I had to rewind it three times to understand what happened... and I'm still not sure what's going on. Either Olivia has see a couple of seconds into the future, or there is another universe hiccup.  Glad Peter is back and I like that only Lincoln is warming up to him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neaux 

Well the end of the episode where Olivia has her dejavu moment caught me off guard. I had to rewind it three times to understand what happened... and I'm still not sure what's going on. Either Olivia has see a couple of seconds into the future, or there is another universe hiccup.  Glad Peter is back and I like that only Lincoln is warming up to him.

I don't know what was weirder about that scene; her having the deja vu moment with the files, or asking Lincoln to dinner.

I'm sort of wondering now if the original timeline/universe is still intact somehow, and perhaps even behind the new shapeshifters.  Would be an interesting twist to reveal the new "villains" as our protagonists from the first three seasons.

well in the parallel universe Lincoln was crushing on Olivia last season.. so it was funny to see Olivia show interest in him.

Do not want Lincoln and Olivia, despite loving them both. Just not together.

The Shapeshifter on the typewriter in this episode--talking to a boss in the yet to be revealed fourth universe?

Well, we haven't seen Walternate in quite some time. Suspiciously.

I don't really like this "Everybody getting to know Peter" thing again. Seems like they are treading water and rehashing a lot of stuff. Do we need another 10 plus episodes of Peter softening Water/Olivia again? We've already had 3 seasons of that.

The show is treading on thin ice for me right now, and I don't think an Observer will be around to pull me out if it breaks.  This entire storyline is just so antagonistic to viewers who have watched from the beginning.  I'm sick of the constant reminders that we don't actually know these characters any more.  I hope that they're building to something soon that I can latch on to because Peter trying to win their trust isn't it.

Peter coming back ought to be more of a cataclysmic event or it shouldn't have happened at all.

I just like having Peter back. The show isn't the same without him. And I buy Walter's guilt and change of character. As someone who had to live with his son's death at his hands for around 20 years, it makes sense he would choose to reject Peter now that he is somehow magically alive.

I'm sure that Peter's return is going to have some massive repercussions.  Olivia's "deja vu" moment is a subtle hint that Peter's existence within in the new timeline is already having an effect.  I wouldn't be surprised if a third parallel world is discovered this season.

Technically, this is a 3rd alternate reality that replaced the original "A" universe. The Fringe we started the show with always had Peter surviving his lakeside drowning.

Very true. This is what I love most about FRINGE, the endless possibilities on where they're going to take it. 

According to this show's theory, if there are two parallel universes there should be infinite ones. The Observes are quite obviously not part of either.

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Originally Posted by stelios 

According to this show's theory, if there are two parallel universes there should be infinite ones. The Observes are quite obviously not part of either.

In the particular arrangements that the writers have for the show, it could be that there's infinite alternate universes, we just won't see them because they're 'further away'. The characters are able to travel between each other because they're so 'close' together and entangled with each other. It would be like the two universes we see in the show are New York and New Jersey (you can decide which are which) and where people travel between the two universes is the border between the two. Other universes could be California, the Netherlands and Borneo. There but further away and harder to get to. Hence, we're not going to see them.

Frederik Pohl wrote an excellent novel called "The Coming of the Quantum Cats", where scientists postulate that there are infinite universes but they can only travel and see alternate universes which branched off from their common history around 1910 and diverged at that point. There are undoubtedly other universes that branched off earlier but the characters in the book can't see or travel to them. 

The seem to suggest something similar is happening in the show, with the Red and the Blue universe coming from a common history and only a recent divergence, which would explain how the machine could be sent back (presumably) once into the far past and appearing in both universes after they split from their common stem history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stelios 

Peter coming back ought to be more of a cataclysmic event or it shouldn't have happened at all.

In Philip K Dick's "Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said", you have one of the most famous people in North America waking up one day and finding himself in a world which seems exactly the same as the world he went to sleep in the previous day except for the one difference that no-one has ever heard of him. A disaster for him personally but it doesn't really affect anyone else and everyone else's life goes on like it always did. Obviously a lot of things are different in this scenario and with Peter Bishop but it can work as a low key personal problem while most people carry on with their lives more or less unchanged.

In the PKD book, once the main character works out what seems to be going on (at least as it affects him), he adjusts to the situation and tries to make the best of it. Peter seems to embarking on a similar journey, after all he's been through in the past, I think it's helped him quickly adjust here and try and do what he can with what options he presently has to work with. Which could be why he's more bemused than anything else with the situation he finds himself in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pop Zeus 

Technically, this is a 3rd alternate reality that replaced the original "A" universe. The Fringe we started the show with always had Peter surviving his lakeside drowning.

Also Technically, this season don't we also already have a 4th alternate reality?  The replacement for the original "B" universe, with Walternate/Bolivia/etc in which Broyles is still alive etc... 

I'm still loving this season. There's not a lot of good sci-fi on TV these days. John Noble did some great work. I don't relish having to watch Peter regain everyone's trust, but his scenes with Walter were compelling. Of all the retooling of the character's relationships, I find Nina being the foster mom to Liv the oddest. How would they even come in contact with one another?* I'm also digging the new shapeshifters. The regenerating cells definitely ups the stakes. In the original timeline, William created the shapeshifters for Walternate, to gain his trust. So, is William and/or Walternate in the Peter-less universe B also responsible? If so, it means Walternate is very much not honoring his end of the bargain. I could see him doing that. I was hoping for The Observors to make an appearance. One would think that after our friend failed to erase Peter, that his buddy would be especially pissed (or however the Observors emote) that Peter has appeared in the new timeline. Speaking of Peter, I watched an interview with Jackson and he said that before he read the Season 4 scripts, he was convinced the writers would bring him back as an Observor. That would have been an interesting twist. One twist I don't want is Liv and Lincoln to fall in love right before she gains her memories of Peter. I trust the show. I think they can tie this all together nicely.

*I just now thought of the connection - the Cortexaphan exeriments. Nina was working with Walter and Belly back then, right?

I don't think the new shapeshifters are actually from a parallel universe (there's no reason a quantum typewriter couldn't be used for untraceable communication within our universe).  The lady shapeshifter was pushing the 'prove Bell wrong' point on the scientist really hard, and she said they were based on his incomplete work.  I think these are David Robert Jones's new soldiers.

D'oh! Good point of the Bell thing. Kinda rules him out of the equation. Is Jones that weird German dude? The name escapes me right now.

He was in a German prison in Season 1, until he teleported out.  Played by Jared Harris, and died at the end of S1.  But it's been confirmed by the showrunners that he's not dead in the current timeline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diva 

I find Nina being the foster mom to Liv the oddest. How would they even come in contact with one another?* I'm also digging the new shapeshifters. 

 

*I just now thought of the connection - the Cortexaphan exeriments. Nina was working with Walter and Belly back then, right?

I think so. Even if she came along later, she'd know of the experiments.

They haven't yet mentioned how Bell died this time around, since his original sacrifice was during their mission to find Peter...

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Originally Posted by Fafhrd 

He was in a German prison in Season 1, until he teleported out.  Played by Jared Harris, and died at the end of S1.  But it's been confirmed by the showrunners that he's not dead in the current timeline.

That could be cool, since Peter might be the only one who knows who he is.

It's getting back on track. The show wasn't the same without Peter and I am enjoying the fact that they seem to have put a lot of thought into how this new universe got the way it is. Still can't help but feel that they're dumbing it down too much for new viewers.

Peter's got his scientific swagger on. Loved how his time loop stuff didn't even phase him. This episode shows how awful permanent markers really are.

It's a little strange we didn't see any Observers in the last 2 episodes. I wonder what's August explanation on why he didn't erase Peter?

So, did Peter cause Universe 1 and 2 to combine and create a 3rd universe; leaving 1 and 2 to exist individually and simultaneously? (I haven't seen Friday's episode yet, but there is a lot of talk about Peter realizing he doesn't belong.)

So that was a weird episode to end until on until January... but I loved how Nina is involved in screwing with Olivia (possibly her memory?). I couldn't help but think of OldBoy for some reason.

But when it returns in January... holy hell does that shit look good. Lincoln Lee vs Lincoln Lee? Love it. Bolivia's back to meet Peter? Hell yeahs.

So annoyed by this 8 day wait to view videos. Just caught up with the ep from two weeks ago. Love that Peter is playing such an integral role in solving Fringe events. It's understandable that Walter would want nothing to do with him, but I do miss them as a duo. Loved that Liv acknowledged that she knew Peter has a strong connection to her (or another version of her). She does seem to be more empathetic than the original Season 1 Liv. So even though we don't have the Season 3 gang back, I'm enjoying this Fringe team and their experiences solving Fringe events. Really enjoyed the time loop plot, even though the ending was completely predictable. I hope they reference it again as it was Peter's appearance that apparently made the machine work. I have faith they'll explain this new timeline and Peter's influence on it satisfactorily.

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Originally Posted by neaux 

So that was a weird episode to end until on until January... but I loved how Nina is involved in screwing with Olivia (possibly her memory?). I couldn't help but think of OldBoy for some reason.

 

But when it returns in January... holy hell does that shit look good. Lincoln Lee vs Lincoln Lee? Love it. Bolivia's back to meet Peter? Hell yeahs.

Well, that was because of the baseball, right? Otherwise it would have been last week's episode and the year would have ended on the one that everyone now has to wait for in January.

I wanted to jump on the boards and give my opinion right after I saw Friday's episode, but unfortunately, I couldn't. What I wanted to say is simply, "WTF, Fringe?" My wife and I kept expressing a bit more disappointment as the episode dragged on and on. I found the MOTW plot to be OK, but it was as if they had a found an unused script from Season 1 and updated it to fit the current season. Also, I don't know about anyone else, but I especially kept getting a bad vibe that reminded of what Alias became after they went and rebooted that series. The show was great and then they went and fucked it and ended up destroying the thing. And can someone explain how it is that it's very apparent to any longtime viewer of the show, that the missing/weird element of the show this season was the absence of Peter and then when he's finally back, the writers wipe away all the relationships/trust/understanding that was built up over 3 seasons and in the process also make him into almost a recurring character on this past episode? Just thinking about the episode I'm getting more and more annoyed by the shit. The show used to be my favorite and I loved to see where they were going to go each week and now, I almost dread to see what other ridiculousness the writers want to fuck over longtime fans of the show.

I totally forgot about this show, but it seems so did everyone else! Just went to the website and watched the ep that aired on 11/18.

Have little to say that hasn't been said. Do not want Liv and Lincoln together. I need the Peter storyline to gain some traction stat. And - HOLY SHIT, NINA!!!!!

Have there been no other eps since then or am I locked out from viewing them online?

You'd have to tell me a little more about which ep you watched to say if it was the latest one, but FOX has had most of their shows in reruns for a while now.