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post #51 of 110

Funny Games is...an experience.  It's totally devoid of gore and graphic violence, and is in total more of an academic exercise than a horror movie.  And it's still one of the most unsettling cinematic experiences you'll ever find.  Psychological torture porn is an okay descriptor, it's just that pornography of any stripe rarely whips the camera around to focus on the director gasping "what the hell...is that an erection???"

 

If you're curious but too scaredy-cat to actually watch it, there's a pretty good thread on it:

 

http://www.chud.com/community/t/106808/funny-games-post-release-discussion/100

post #52 of 110

I saw the remake. Was the gist of Funny Games that we were the sickos for watching this film?  Anyways, I'm sure the director is more guilty than any of us. Pretty sure that I didn't get off on watching this torture so much that I had to film it twice with different actors.

post #53 of 110
I didn't know the film went meta, but I still have no desire to see it. If the director feels the need to admonish his audience for seeking out and enjoying violence, it's a message not meant for me. I don't seek out violent films if the violence is all the film has to offer as entertainment.*

*Thats one statement reeking of hypocrisy (for one, you could argue that description fits both the horror and action genres), but i think chewers know what I'm talking about.

/edit/

I get the feeling I'm going to get ripped apart.

In my defense, I just don't like films lingering on violence and emotional anguish. I find it hard to divorce myself from it. The whole "It's only a movie" chant goes on in my head, but my gut emotions don't pay it any heed.
Edited by Tim K - 9/15/11 at 1:26am
post #54 of 110

But the thing is, FUNNY GAMES isn't aimed solely at people who "get off" on violence in movies or seek movies out just for that reason, and I think your post inadvertently illustrates exactly what it's about. At worst it's admonishing viewers but at best it's making us think more critically about what we watch, how and why we watch it.

post #55 of 110

The Girl Next Door. The one based on the Jack Ketchum novel. Just reading what the movie's about had me in tears.

post #56 of 110

Its a really hard film to watch and left me shaken. I couldn't get it out of my head for a few days and then read about what inspired the story and was even more horrified at the truth.

 

Its a really crazy world we live in.

post #57 of 110

The thing about Funny Games (either version; content-wise they're almost exactly interchangeable) is that everything in it would be palatable if the victims got revenge on the invaders. It could be grosser than anything ever, Michael Pitt could rape Naomi Watts with her dead son's severed penis, but as long as order is restored at the end, the villains are violently dead, and the victims are still standing, it's all good, it's like every other home-invasion thriller.*

 

Doesn't happen. In fact, the movie quite rudely gives us that and then yanks it away.

 

So the movie doesn't give you what you want, and instead gives you agonizing minutes on end of what no mainstream movie ever gives you, which is unblinking footage of people realistically suffering physically and emotionally.

 

Which you could feel free to enjoy, along with the Magnificent Bastard performances of the villains, if the villains died for your sins at the end and you hypocritically cheered on the victims as they got their gory revenge. Again, doesn't happen. Structurally, the movie is front-loaded so that you want to see the villains get it so it hurts. The restrained style — there's only the one flash of graphically shown onscreen violence, which again is rescinded — gets the audience primed and primed and primed, like a cocktease, for vicious, morally acceptable retributive savagery.

 

And if it did give you that, it would be Home Invasion Thriller #2,768 and nobody would be talking about it years later.

 

*I distinguish here between "thriller" and "horror movie," because something like The Strangers plays by different rules. What Funny Games subverts is more along the lines of Straw Dogs or other, lesser thrillers I'm forgetting at the moment.

post #58 of 110

What different rules does The Strangers play by? I guess it just wishes to present itself as being horrific, as it has a similar ending as Funny Games.

 

I agree that Funny Games has a lot to say and is ultimately worth a look, but in the end it felt like it was preaching at me. There are tons of horror films where the killers pretty much get off scot free, and I don't feel guilty for rooting for the protagonists to get away. If this means that they have to walk over some psychotic killers, so be it. I'm not necessarily rooting for more brutality to befall the villains. For instance, I don't care to watch I Spit on Your Grave because of this. Sure, those are bad guys getting tortured, but it's still torture to me and I don't care to root for it. 

 

It all reminds me of lyrics from a song by folkster Todd Snider:

 

After the bad guy killed off all the underdeveloped characters
The good guy put a bullet right through his head
The screenwriter stood up and told us that all the loose ends had been
tied, justice is irrelevant
Violent problems need violent solutions
'Cause in America we like our bad guys dead
It's called box office, baby
It's bigger than the damn Stones

post #59 of 110

Well, despite what Haneke says, I don't really find Funny Games to be a stern talking-to directed at violence-loving audiences. Violent anti-violence movies have a tendency to get off their leash and scamper away from their makers' intentions. Exhibit A: Natural Born Killers.

 

I think its target goes deeper (or wider, or whatever): It essentially attacks the audience's desire to get anything from a movie. If Haneke made a slapstick film in this mode, you'd see all the pies neatly arranged on a table but nobody would ever get hit with one. Banana peels would litter the floor, but nobody would slip on one. In this case, Haneke makes a thriller, because he knows that will hold our attention, and then meticulously goes about removing every trope that would make it cathartic. Actually, going back to the slapstick example, you wouldn't actually see someone slip on a banana peel but you would spend an entire unbroken reel with them in the emergency room as they got their scalp stitched up from the fall they took. This goes back to the classic Mad parody of Bringing Up Father, in which cartoony depictions of Jiggs being hit with dishes and lamps were intercut with bleak Bernard Krigstein drawings of what actual effect those flying objects would have (knocked-out teeth, scalp lacerations, etc.). Haneke's approach isn't new but it is, as they say, updated for the video age. It's pitch-dark Juvenalian satire.

 

It's very much a meta-movie, announcing loudly at several points that it is a movie, that it is fiction. That's why I called it an essay on torture porn rather than the thing itself. But whether or not Haneke after the fact wants to describe it as an annihilating frown pointed at Eli Roth fans, it really works more as a general deconstruction of what exactly we want movies, or fiction, to do. We say we want to be surprised by movies, but really we don't. We want what we want. When something new comes along we reject it. When something breaks or disregards the rules we reject it, unless it's wrapped in other comforting tropes, as in Tarantino. (Not a criticism of Tarantino, by the way: he knows and loves the rules, which is why he can toy with them so well. Same reason Trey Parker can so devastatingly write parodic musical numbers, because he's actually a huge musical geek.) Anyway, it seems like if you look at Funny Games as an overall study of why we want/need certain tropes to be observed in fiction, rather than as a specific spanking to fans of violent films, it makes more sense.

 

As to The Strangers, the rules it plays by are a little different because the genre is more horror than thriller. The beats are different, the tone is different. It's hard to describe, but the atmosphere is so doomy and heavy that you don't feel there's much chance of escape, something like House of 1000 Corpses. Anyway, The Strangers is problematic and thin, more of a director's calling card than a storytelling triumph: sparsely imagined but skillfully made. It's not really seeking to subvert expectations other than the basic one that the protagonists will live. It's not really working the same side of the street as Funny Games or, for that matter, Psycho. It's like a lot of other horror films where everything goes to shit and nobody lives.

post #60 of 110

Cross posting Noroi: The Curse over into the Horror Recommendation thread - that was an awesome find, Navidson. Thanks.

post #61 of 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkatthemoon View Post

The Girl Next Door. The one based on the Jack Ketchum novel. Just reading what the movie's about had me in tears.


As horrific as it is to think that this was based on actual events, the story presented in this particular version is just so implausible, so illogical, and so terribly acted, its impossible to take it even remotely seriously.   

 

Also, kudos to Martin for that great breakdown of Funny Games.  Its actually got me itching to give that one a re-watch.  Which is something I never thought I'd say.

 

post #62 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post

I think its target goes deeper (or wider, or whatever): It essentially attacks the audience's desire to get anything from a movie. If Haneke made a slapstick film in this mode, you'd see all the pies neatly arranged on a table but nobody would ever get hit with one. Banana peels would litter the floor, but nobody would slip on one. In this case, Haneke makes a thriller, because he knows that will hold our attention, and then meticulously goes about removing every trope that would make it cathartic. Actually, going back to the slapstick example, you wouldn't actually see someone slip on a banana peel but you would spend an entire unbroken reel with them in the emergency room as they got their scalp stitched up from the fall they took. This goes back to the classic Mad parody of Bringing Up Father, in which cartoony depictions of Jiggs being hit with dishes and lamps were intercut with bleak Bernard Krigstein drawings of what actual effect those flying objects would have (knocked-out teeth, scalp lacerations, etc.). Haneke's approach isn't new but it is, as they say, updated for the video age. It's pitch-dark Juvenalian satire.

 

 

 

Good point. I would love to see a comedy movie in this vein, especially if they marketed it as the next HANGOVER or GENERIC TEEN SEX COMEDY.

 

 

post #63 of 110

I'm a complete sap when it comes to ghost stories, the Blair Witch Project unsettled me for christ's sake, so I've masochistically acquired copies of Lake Mungo and Noroi: The Curse to see if I can make it through them.

post #64 of 110

Lake Mungo shouldn't scare you, but it's a great restrained flick.

post #65 of 110
Although it does have at least one very haunting moment that will stay with you. Very good movie.
post #66 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post

Although it does have at least one very haunting moment that will stay with you.


 

For me there were probably two or three moments that really put the willies up me during Lake Mungo. Like the excellent recent Ciaran Hinds film The Eclipse, it's more of an emotionally haunting experience overall, but when it wants to scare you it truly gets the job done.

post #67 of 110

True, there's more than one. While not outright terrifying the movie cultivates a very eerie mood. But it's one moment in particular (and I'm sure you can guess which) that has stayed with me in the months since I saw the movie.

 

Good call on THE ECLIPSE as well. Those scenes are almost cheating, in that they're so abrupt they're basically jump scares, but in the context of the movie it's totally acceptable. Certainly rattled me, especially, if I recall correctly, the one in the car. The way the choral music on the soundtrack perfectly underscores it by seamlessly shifting from some gentle, mournful tune to a discordant ghostly wail is perfect. That movie and LAKE MUNGO are a nice thematic pairing too.

post #68 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post

True, there's more than one. While not outright terrifying the movie cultivates a very eerie mood. But it's one moment in particular (and I'm sure you can guess which) that has stayed with me in the months since I saw the movie.



Yeah, I think that main "moment" is like the Exorcist III moment- one of those scares where you don't really have to be specific, everyone who has seen it knows what part you're talking about. And it's got such a slow buildup- the pacing of the movie is so funereal- that it only enhances the intensity of that scene when it comes. I can be very patient with a ghost story if I get the feeling it's going to pay off, especially if it's got good performances and a compelling story like Lake Mungo. The film has this overriding feeling of unresolved melancholy that mixes with the horror in a really special way, it definitely stays with you.

 

And The Eclipse is brilliant, and all serious ghost story fans should make a point to see it. Thing about that one (and what makes me mention it at the same time as Mungo) is the whole idea of not being able to let go is such a PERFECT natural fit for a ghost story. And both films deal with it not in the cliche Lifetime channel movie way, but in a very real, sad, devastatingly human way. SPOILERISH?... I go into these kinds of films wanting and hoping to achieve some kind of rattled nerves supernatural high, what I don't expect is to be scared along the way but then at the very end when the film has me at its mercy, instead be almost moved to tears. Love that film.

 

post #69 of 110

Cronenberg's The Fly. Haven't seen it in 20 years & I don't have the guts to revisit it. The fingernail removal, the acid vomit...Christ. I WANT to see it again but I just...can't.

post #70 of 110
Thread Starter 

Don't forget that unforgettable pan across the medicine cabinet.   Nightmare Fuel

post #71 of 110

Fuck y'all for saying LAKE MUNGO wouldn't scare me. THAT moment not only scared the piss out of me, but also caused a minor existential crisis. There's something deeply unsettling about the way the film sort of views the afterlife and that shot after the credits just disquieted me in a way I've never been disquieted.


Edited by Spike Marshall - 9/18/11 at 12:29pm
post #72 of 110

Yes, like PULSE I think that combination of scary/uncanny and DEEP EXISTENTIAL SADNESS is extremely effective, and why supernatural horror can have a stronger effect on me than real-world horror. The scene in question is scary

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Not just because she has a run in with a creepy apparition, but because it is a confrontation with her own mortality and the horror of the abyss that lies beyond. Her ultimate fate is so inescapable she is literally haunted by it. That the encounter with this inexplicable otherworldly specter of death happens while she's by herself in a remote wilderness in the middle of the night taps into some extremely primal fear and sadness.

 

post #73 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post

Yes, like PULSE I think that combination of scary/uncanny and DEEP EXISTENTIAL SADNESS is extremely effective, and why supernatural horror can have a stronger effect on me than real-world horror. The scene in question is scary

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Not just because she has a run in with a creepy apparition, but because it is a confrontation with her own mortality and the horror of the abyss that lies beyond. Her ultimate fate is so inescapable she is literally haunted by it. That the encounter with this inexplicable otherworldly specter of death happens while she's by herself in a remote wilderness in the middle of the night taps into some extremely primal fear and sadness.

 

 

Yeah, I think it's the fatalistic elements of it all which just revulsed me more than anything else.

 

post #74 of 110

NOROI: THE CURSE.

 

Shudder, so much shuddering.

post #75 of 110
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

KAAAAAAAAAGUUUUUUUUUTAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAA

 

 

post #76 of 110

Even though I tried and failed, I need to sack up and watch PARADISE LOST before the last part comes out.

post #77 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

KAAAAAAAAAGUUUUUUUUUTAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAA

 

 



The last half hour is just insane, especially how it just keeps ramping up. Who would have thought two people on a rowing boat, in broad daylight, could be so terrifying.

post #78 of 110

The mentally ill psychic guy edges dangerously close at times to spilling over into silly/comical/annoying territory but as the movie goes on he's increasingly effective as an indicator that bad things are happening, sometimes despite appearances, and his mounting frenzy really puts you on edge, like your dog barking and growling at something you can't see outside at night.

post #79 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

KAAAAAAAAAGUUUUUUUUUTAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAA

 

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

KANA! KANA! KANA! KANA!

 

 

Also, this. Just so much dread here.

 

Noroi_Kana.jpg

 

post #80 of 110

I think I actually went "ohhhh no" to my empty living room when she held up that picture. Same when they reviewed the footage of the shrine that wasn't initially shown to the actress.

post #81 of 110

I said those exact words. Also at the very end OH GOD THAT FACE

post #82 of 110

How did ya'll experience Noroi? I purchased a DivX DVD player and can now watch DivX videos on my TV, so I'm excited about visiting this film again. First time I watched it was with a Shareware program that allowed me to burn the DVD, but it had an annoying watermark. I hear the director has another film called The Occult that is quite good and in a similar style. Gonna have to check it out.

 

 

The crazy guy does border on annoying....

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

but the last image we see of him, dead in that pipe or whatever is very unnerving.

 

post #83 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post

Fuck y'all for saying LAKE MUNGO wouldn't scare me. THAT moment not only scared the piss out of me, but also caused a minor existential crisis. There's something deeply unsettling about the way the film sort of views the afterlife and that shot after the credits just disquieted me in a way I've never been disquieted.



I don't know if it's the last scene

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

but how they close the "loop" between what the daughter tells the therapist about her dream and when the mom walks out is very, very depressing.

 

Also, I suppose that they could've played the whole thing closer to the chest with making us question whether there was something supernatural afoot at all with the son creating the A/V ghosts, etc. I guess in the end I like how it played out.

post #84 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navidson View Post

How did ya'll experience Noroi? I purchased a DivX DVD player and can now watch DivX videos on my TV, so I'm excited about visiting this film again. First time I watched it was with a Shareware program that allowed me to burn the DVD, but it had an annoying watermark. I hear the director has another film called The Occult that is quite good and in a similar style. Gonna have to check it out.

 

 

The crazy guy does border on annoying....

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

but the last image we see of him, dead in that pipe or whatever is very unnerving.

 

 

There's a Chinese Store near me which tends to have a ton of Region 3/0 HK DVDs. Now these things are in no way legal, I think about 10% of DVDs in China and HK are actually licensed, but it's how I've seen the majority of newer asian releases.

 

I actually kind of liked the crazy guy, just because I thought he did a really good job of making you unnerved by how bothered he was. Like when he literally revulses back into the pipe when he sees the woman on the tape, or him just staring agape at the apparition of Kana, it's all really effective way of building dread and because Kobayashi is often behind the camera the crazy guy kind of becomes our audience identification figure.

 

I think what impressed me about the film is that it actually feels like a documentary, a roughly hewn documentary, but still a documentary. Everything that Kobayashi films and edits feels like something that a documentary maker would have made and even the ending sequence feels a lot more natural due to the fact it starts with the conversation at the door seemingly in full swing.

 

And yeah, with Lake Mungo it's definitely an existential sort of fear rather than the creeping dread of Noroi. I think Mungo is the kind of film you bring baggage into.
 

 

post #85 of 110

Insidious is the movie which I scared a lot to watch alone.

post #86 of 110

   Inside and Martyrs, for me, and its not like I'm squeamish.  Cannibal Holocaust is on my perennial re-watch list and I thought The Human Centipede was a blast, there's something almost merry in being so gratuitously sick.  But those two flicks really were eye-openers.  They're both extremely well done from a technical perspective, and Inside has the best exploding head effect I've ever seen.  However, Martyrs, in the second half, goes about its torture and debasement in such a matter-of-fact clinical way that it really got under my skin.  It wasn't sadistic maniacs doing these things, but seekers after ultimate reality (however misguided).  Inside was a Hitchcockian exercise in ratcheting up tension to absurd levels while showcasing some of the most realistic and brutal violence I've ever witnessed.  It was a relief when it was over because the film was absolutely relentless and draining.  I really liked both films, admired them on several levels, and will probably never watch either again.

post #87 of 110

Yeah, I felt the same way about Inside:

 

Annoying self-quote from review:
I cannot accurately say I “enjoyed” À l’intérieur — even at its abbreviated length it can be an endurance test, and I can’t say I was sorry it was over. Yet I give it five stars, because it is a horror movie, and it horrifies.

 

post #88 of 110

I made it about 20 minutes into Winter's Bone and I had to turn it off; having family and friends in the Ohio/Kentucky area, the landscapes and characters had such an eery familiarity to them that I couldn't continue watching. I hope to actually finish it someday but man, the first 20 minutes was just too much for me to take.

 

Also, Wendy and Lucy.  I don't like when animals are in peril in movies and I especially dislike when anything bad happens to dogs; I think that watching this one would probably send me into a panic attack.   

 

 

post #89 of 110

Wendy and Lucy isn't really that kind of movie, but it's probably off limits to anyone who can't deal with any kind of sadness involving pets.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

The dog is fine, but Wendy has to leave her with, presumably, a family better able to provide for her.

 

post #90 of 110

We seem to be talking about two kinds of films (or hoped-for reactions from the films) here: one is being actually scared, one is being grossed out. It takes a LOT for a film to actually scare me - and I'm keeping this distinct from cheap jump-scares and increasing tension.

 

The only film in the last 20+ years to scare me was BLAIR WITCH PROJECT. I literally had trouble sleeping three nights in a row after it. Since then, I've watched other films, including the PARANORMAL ACTIVITY ones, with nothing even close to that kind of reaction. 

 

Films with a lot of tension - BREAKDOWN, ALIENS, etc. - aren't the same to me. It's more roller-coastery to me, rather than approaching genuine fright.

 

As another poster above said, I don't do body horror. At all. Outside of action film violence, I tend to be really squeamish (I'll never be seeing ANTICHRIST, based on what I've read here) - I can't even watch the surgery scenes in ER, fer pete's sake. (The knee-shooting scene in DIE HARD, weirdly, doesn't bother me at all.) Stuff like HUMAN CENTIPEDE, SAW, HOSTEL - I can't say I'm scared to watch it, but more that they'd disturb the hell out of me.

post #91 of 110

Yep, anything involving animal or child abuse is off limits to my eyes.

 

F*ck you, Prince Of Tides. F*ck YOU.

post #92 of 110

What about kid-violence in:

 

Assault on Precinct 13

Rambo

Prophecy

Funny Games

Attack The Block

 

Is it the realistic or drawn-out abuse of a kid, or does it have to be sexual in nature, or any kid violence at all? Because the above moments of kids getting offed are kind of great.

post #93 of 110

Before I get pounced on, great for different reasons. Funny Games is for me a great piece of cinema. Prophecy is fucking hysterical. There's a spectrum. 

post #94 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post

What about kid-violence in:

 

Assault on Precinct 13

Rambo

Prophecy

Funny Games

Attack The Block

 

Is it the realistic or drawn-out abuse of a kid, or does it have to be sexual in nature, or any kid violence at all? Because the above moments of kids getting offed are kind of great.


Kid violence I'm perfectly fine with. I was specifically talking about scenes that depict sexual abuse.

 

post #95 of 110

While it's true that this is basically what the movie ostensibly portrays, it's really more about the experience of watching this type of a movie, and what we expect from it, and why. It's operating on a completely different level than the other movies listed like Human Centipede and Saw and whatever. Are you familiar with any of Haneke's other work? They are punishing to an audience, but highly rewarding I find.  As a cinema fan I would implore you to check Funny Games out. Maybe start with something of his less horrifying like... well, it's all brutal. Cache is fucking awesome and White Ribbon is a masterpiece.

 

Anyway, I get what you're saying, I would say for 95% of the population it is an impossible film to sit down and enjoy, but it's in my DNA to push this stuff so. 

 

ETA - Well, I didn't realize I was so late to the party. Lots of other people said it a whole lot better than me. 

post #96 of 110


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post

Before I get pounced on, great for different reasons. Funny Games is for me a great piece of cinema. Prophecy is fucking hysterical.

 

Damn fucking straight.
 

 

 

post #97 of 110

I have seen the Guinea Pig movies. They are so fake and pointless that they don't affect me at all. I still have not watched Human Centipede or Antichrist or Enter The Void and I own them all. I saw the Exorcist when I was 13 and it didn't bother me that much. David Lynch really gets under my skin.

post #98 of 110

The Girl Next Door was a very good movie, but I will probably never watch it again. It hurt. Same with Serbian Film.

post #99 of 110

You're afraid to watch Enter the Void yet you'll watch A Serbian Film?

post #100 of 110

I've sat through all sorts of crazy shit in my day. Irreversible, Ichi the Killer, Salo, Waterpower, Cannibal Holocaust, Necromantik, Schramm, etc, but about two years ago I bought Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer and attempted to watch it for the first time. Attempted. I couldn't deal with it. I'm getting older and more sensitive to this kind of thing and I realized during the early montage scene of Henry's victims that I was so not situated to deal w/ violence (against women in particular) on such a realistic level. I'll finish it someday, but I'm not marking the calendar.

 

 

 

 

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