Supernatural (Season 7): Now With 100% More Jefferson Starships - Page 6

So according to the show mythology, it was first God, then the Mother (or was it vice versa) and then Angels/Demons, Leviathans and finally humans?

The kid was a prophet. So benefit of the doubt/artistic license yadda yadda.

 

Can't recall the timeline regarding creation of Leviathans and Angels, but maybe the stone was made after Angels were around and they had Leviathan-killing powers built into them for this sort of purpose...or something.

Well no because demons are just normal souls that went to hell and became twisted by hell and it's inhabitants. The first demon was Lilith, whos soul was twisted by Lucifer. Demons are technically last. They can't exist until Lucifer is cast out and the first soul(Lilith) goes to hell.

 

As for the mother im not sure god created her at all. There were other gods and creatures in the show not connected to christian mythology. For instance in Supernatural's universe I don't know if god even created Earth. Seems it was already here and god decided to use it. As a matter of act im not even sure he created humans and souls. In the episode Hammer of the Gods, Kahli makes it clear that they were here first and then the "winged ones came" (angels) and took over. That means that there were humans there to worship her before. 

not really sure where they are going with the mythology (kinda the main issue with this season) but I enjoyed a return to Angel/Prophet territory.  I thought the show really peaked when it got into the real heavy Heaven/Hell stuff.

 

Overall it was a fun episode, but yea a lot of exposition...lazy exposition.  I hope they flesh out the origin of the Leviathan before they just put them to rest forever at the end of this season.

Call me a whiny geek but I will not forgive Supernatural for not making this the Cthulhu Mythos season. I mean, just use The Call Of Cthulhu as the main arc. It's that simple. Give any decent writer a week and using it he'd have at least eight main arc episodes outlined, easily.

Well thats the thing, they even introduced lovecraft into the mythology. They even left who killed him up in the air, im sure they have a plan at one point and dropped it.

That was an even bigger insult. They introduced Lovecraft only to have him be part of a botched seance for a couple of scenes. Seriously, you get the least spiritual out of all the great horror authors and have his one appearance in your horror based series be about a botched seance? 

No thoughts on the past episode? I thought it was pretty good and thoroughly enjoyed it,  but in the story of my life, apparently all of the internet hated it.

 

Loved seeing the alpha vampire again, and really happy that they didn't kill him off--and also we got a meta-ish, "See you next season" shout out. 

 

While I liked the episode, I'm tired of RAGE Ghost Bobbay! and I'm hoping he makes his final appearance in the season finale next week. They've just spent far too long on this, and not enough time on the "Big Bad" of the season and fleshing out the Leviathans. I can't believe the finale is next week, there is just no urgency at all. 

Yeah the episode was fine but you think they dropped the ball on the whole master vampire vs leviathan fight? Should have been WAY bigger. Also I think it may have been interesting if they had worked together more. Like why not send a couple of vampire soldiers with them as reinforcements or better yet, the Alpha vamp goes with them. After all, he has a direct interest in this and his power would be a big help. 

meh.

 

dropped a big ball by wrapping up the Alpha thing.  I agree it would have been more interesting if the Alpha joined the Winchesters in fighting the Leviathans.

 

The season is definitely stumbling past the finish line.

They're obviously having a lot of fun with Dick Roman and they've got all the cards on the table now. I'm guessing they've laid off the epic battles for a reason. All the pieces appear to be in place for a show down. So I think the issue is that they are indeed treating this a single story split into pieces rather than a series of stories with a connecting thread.

 

Damn I'm stoopid - which/when/where/what was the Lovecraft episode? I have zero memory of that...and it pains me.

Heard the news? Kripke is going to be running J.J. Abrams' new show next season.

 

And Nardo? It's better you don't rememeber. Also indicative of how un-Lovecraftian that episode was.

 

As stated by Death, long before God created Angel and Man he created the Leviathons. And I got the impression by the Edgar and "Dracula" dialogue that Eve was some sort of product(offspring?) of the Leviathons. Also In the episode where Eve was killed, she tells Castiel that she is older then him. Which is why he lost his powers around her.

 

So, I believe it goes God -> Leviathons -> Eve -> Angels -> Man -> Demons.

 

I don't think that would have worked too well. The vampires are monsters, almost wild animals, and humans are just food. The alpha is just too evil and arrogant.

 

Crowly and the demons are just as evil but they are schemers. It kind of makes sense that they would deal together under certain circumstances.

Often I see people on here commenting they drop the ball in regards to big epic battle or effects; that they squander opportunities. This is a low budget show, thirdd rate network with low ratings on a friday night. I think expectations could be lowered. The effects and epicness we get is the best it's gonna be. Bummer? Yes. But they are wringing every penny they can. It shocks me how they make such little money go so far. Just a puzzling thing to me.

 

You are right, I do forget this.

 

The show has such great big ideas, but definitely seems to be hampered by its budget.  It reminds me of ANGEL in its swan song season.  The buildup and ending of that show was a real bitch to handle for me.

 

I feel the same for this show.  Wish it had a bigger budget so they could flesh out there ideas more.  But, I still can't forgive them for doing a dragons episode a few years ago...with the dragons in human form...that was idiotic.

YES. They normally know their limitations and their budget. Don't get us all hyped up for epic battles and showdowns, when you're going to make a fucking dragon human with red eyes and scales glued on to his arm. Back in the earlier seasons of Supernatural, the writing was good enough to give us the sense of urgency while minding the budget, because it was about character development, and giving a shit about what happened to our characters. Yellow Eyes, Lilith, Dean going to hell, etc. Even in Season 5, we were promised an apocalypse, they couldn't give it to us, so they figured out a way to avoid it while still giving us a satisfying showdown and ending. 

 

That being said, I don't dislike Season 7 at all, I think it was much better than season 6. I just wish they had given us more meat where the Leviathans were concerned. The writing failed in this aspect, not the lack of special effects. 

Well all I was asking for is to see vampires fight leviathans. I don't think that would cost much in special effects. It would take longer to shoot which would of course cost more but.....serioulsy having the alpha vs leviathan fight be like 3 punches was really fucking sad. Especially when right before that you have Nikita. A show that has even lower ratings and im guessing less of a budget due to that. Yet they seem to be able to afford well done fight scenes that last a good length of time that you can actually see clearly(seriously I rarely know whats happening in Supernatural fights). And they manage explosions and CGI although it doesn't always look amazing. Sorry but sometimes they really do just drop the ball.

Speking of Nikita, just how awesome was Michael's fight with that douche agent in the previous episode?

 

"I also taught you manners."

 

SNAP! (Both figuratively and orthopedically)

Yeah, I don't think the budget can be held to blame. If you look at just the other shows on the CW you can see maybe not stellar action and effects but at least effective ones. For instance The Secret Circle looked comparatively like a million bucks, with fantastic location scouting and the ability to occasionally whip out a quality bit of stuntwork, yet I can't imagine its budget for coolness was vastly higher(especially with such a large cast compared to Supernatural's two). And The Vampire Diaries rarely does flat out action sequences but when it does they are generally effective because they work as exclamation points to the stories going on.

 

Supernatural seems content to just give us the same old every single time, shoot/stab overly-humanoid monster, repeat. There is no flair to any of it.

 

And, honestly, it would be much less of an issue if the show wasn't as lackluster as it is these days.

I know right? Really strong action sequences that don't feel very "tv" to me.

 

Also for charliecluster7, Secret Circle got cancelled. Good news is Nikita got renewed for a full 22 episode run. Never watched Secret Circle.

Yeah, I heard. It wasn't the greatest show or anything but it was starting to build some steam in the back half of the season. And occasionally someone would get their legs cut out from under them by a telekinetically thrown bench:

 

Shit maybe I will stream it once it lands on Netflix. 

Say what you will about the quality of the last two seasons, but I think it's cool as shit that this show survived the Friday Death Slot (I say that as if it has everything to do with the show, and not the CW's general incompetence). Also, reading some of the upfront reports, I completely forgot that Supernatural is the last remnant of the old WB left on the CW...completely forgot...

 

Hopefully they can take advantage of the new timeslot and have a little creative resurgence....

The last two seasons are a letdownbut I love the cast too much to really give up or even be too annoyed. I still don't envy the writers for having to piece together a season long story two in a row after blowing their wad in the first 5. It's an even bigger shame we didn't know at least three more seasons were in the cards so an overall, bigger idea could have played out. Never would have guessed I was going to be a fan of the show let alone defend it after failing to deliver after five initially good seasons. I hope a Wednesday move will revive the show a bit and give it a breath of fresh air. However with 7 seasons behind it, a schedule shuffle, showrunner changeups and an unkkown future; I only expect fun, some gore and a good cast. Expecting a great story seems to be a lost cause. But again, mediocre supernatural is better than none for me.

Man, Supernatural sure knows how to be anticlimactic.

 

 

Finale Spoilers (Click to show)

 

I think The Road So Far montage was incredibly telling, in the golden years of this show it would always pump me up for the finale but this time it was just a bunch of stuff shown. Very little of it registers as worth putting together with Kansas and almost none of it felt like it mattered. 

 

The cliffhanger seems like it could be cool but I have no faith they'll do anything worthwhile with it.

from a story sense, the finale was fine....Dick went out a little too easy, but it sets up season 8 nicely. They kind of dropped the ball on Bobby as vengeful spirit arc, but it was a nice way to send him off, I guess.

 

but man, the show should have had Sam and Dean have to at the very least fight their way through a small army of leviathan in order to get to Dick. Meg crashes the impala into a sign and has a quick little scrap with 2 or 3 leviathan, then Sam, Dean and Cas stroll in? Fuck that. If you can't give me proper plotting, give me action and gore. Save up that budget and knock it out of the park in the finale...

 

Oh well, here's hoping a new night and a new showrunner can liven things up a bit.

Spoilers///

 

Well, yeah - that was very low budget. Anybody think Dick's smile at the end was indicative of anything other than possible knowledge they were going with him to purgatory?

 

"The cliffhanger seems like it could be cool but I have no faith they'll do anything worthwhile with it."

 

I was a bit sad it was purgatory actually - as that little copse of woods with the creatures prowling around? Make that EARTH and I'm your bitch.

 

Like a supernatural ecosystem re-balancing itself after an Apex Predator gets taken out of the pecking order. A thousand little nameless/label-less shadow creatures coming out and starting to compete for dominance.

 

But as it stands it's Crowley's turn to be Big Bad and the Alpha Vampire's clan will likely get a look in.

 

Cas' return is still unexplained - so I'm guessing they're still playing the Hand of God factor there. He response to Bobby's demise made me think that's something he could choose to reverse if necessary, but that could just be wishful thinking that there's a greater plan at work with a better Bobby Sign-Off.

 

Spoilers///

 

I'm still on board. It's a show with great potential and really enjoyable character beats but it seems like it's a miracle that they're even still on the air with all the limitations they're dealing with.

Yeah, I had a moment at the end where I though, "Ooooh, cool, Purgatory, maybe we'll get some cool monsters next season!"  And then I remembered that this is Supernatural, so, at best we'll probably get some humans with fake teeth and colored contacts.  And the take down of Roman was waaaaay too easy.  They should have super-soakered up with some liquid detergent and been slashing and hacking their way through a building of Levis before they got to Dick.  Lame.  Ah, well, at least the Impala came back.

 

New showrunner:  give me some actual monsters next season and all will be forgiven.

MEH

 

Pretty much my response to the entire episode and season.  Some deus ex machina is cooked up to kill the big bad (way too fucking easily) and Crowley ends up being bad...well no duh.

 

Sam and Dean separated again...OH NO!  I wonder how long till Sam figures out some spell to figure this out...my guess 3/4th of next season premiere.

 

I honestly have no clue where they go with this show next season, and unfortunately I don't think these showrunners do either.

 

Now a short Fan-fic interlude:

 

If I were to take over this show starting next season, I would actually kick everyone in the balls by having Sam, Dean, Cas, and Bobby all stuck in Purgatory.  No more Earth.  I would envision it as SUPERNATURAL meets ARMY OF DARKNESS.  A kind of tongue in cheek Medieval type society in Purgatory and now you have these 4 jokers from Earth coming trying to find their way out.  Now you just let your imagination run wild as far as monsters, baddies, cultures, etc inside Purgatory.  Of course it would never work with this show's budgetary constrictions, but that would be a fucking rad paradigm shift, which this show is sorely in need of.

More budget-friendly fanfic version: whatever Sam does to bring them back brings EVERYTHING back. So it's still set in the usual budget-friendly interior locations (abandoned warehouses! small town diners! motels!) but with a whole new dimension of beasts, not just human-looking ones. 'Course you'd still need the budget to make the monsters. Honestly, I have no idea how they make this show work on what I assume will be an even smaller budget next season (8 years in and the Winchester Bros. must be on healthy contract bumps).

But now it makes sense that the Monsantos and Halliburtons of the world are run by Leviathans.  Complete sense. 

In do have hope for season 8. Dean stuck in Purgatory has potential.

But does it really? I mean yeah normally you would be right but I know their budget can't handle it. I just finished the finale and it was quite the let down. I don't normally boast about my abilities to take down fictional supernatural creatures but I think I could handle this one. Also what was the point in stabbing him with the fake bone first? If he had stabbed him with the real one in the heart.....wouldn't it have still worked? Also BOBBY what the fuck! Seriously they went through all that trouble of bring him back and all the hand wringing with the vengeful spirit shit just for that? I would have bet good money that his ghost powers were going to be a big deal in bringing down Dick. He used them once, it was kind of a cool scene but overall it mean't nothing. So while yeah the purgatory thing sounds cool I know they are going to bungle it. Meanwhile the show that come on before it, Nikita, nailed they're season finale completely changing the game again. 

 With Bobby's story, it was more about him not letting go and wanting revenge on Dick, than helping Sam and Dean. Although he did give the Winchesters info on Dick's plans. We all know the show has a limited budget, but I do like the idea of Dean fighting to survive and escape Purgatory. He could even run into monsters he has killed in the past. Just don't do that with Amy.

As Dean stabbed Dick my mind kept going "This can't be it. Can it?" But it was. This season was a clusterfuck. And the cliffhanger is lame. I'm done. Unless next season is in season 3-5 form im out for good.

*whispers* I enjoyed the finale, and Dean ending up in purgatory seemed like classic Supernatural to me.

Well no one had a problem with Dean ending up in purgatory....................IT'S EVERYTHING ELSE!

The finale was meh. Loads of letdown all around. I agree that there should be some hope for next season being good but I doubt it. The writers that once seemed to know how to write within the confines of the show's budget, but they appear to no longer be around. If all things were good, then next season would give us the monsters we deserve. That's not going to happen. As another chewer said, I see them just casting people as monsters in human form. The whole thing reminds me a bit of Conner on Angel disappearing and growing up in that Hell dimension.

Well, I complained about the show's writers for the past two seasons pretending that they don't know that the show is on a limited budget when they write these ambitious storylines. They were able to make it work in previous seasons, I'm not sure why they can't now.

 

I went into this finale with the lowest of expectations, and I was a bit pissed that they used "Carry On My Wayward Son", when I don't think they've had the right to it in two years. Nevertheless, I'm glad they finally put Bobby to rest and judging by the last 30 seconds, Cas seems to be Cas again, which would make me praise the lawd if I were not a heathen. 

 

Dean in purgatory fighting his way out while Sam is earthside facing a new rising horror makes me a bit hopeful. I'm all for the reintroduction of demons too. Fuck it. Not everything has to be massive and world ending because it will never live up to Yellow Eyes/Lilith/Lucifer/Michael years. Never. 

 

THIS. The scope of the show has never been able to live up to the scope of the writing, even in the Yellow Eyes / Lillith / Lucifer / Michael years. As the budgets got lower, it's just made the problem worse and worse.

 

I randomly thew on "The Magnificent Seven" a couple weeks back (the ep where they 'accidentally' used up a third of their entire season's FX budget), and thinking back to that episode, I would have killed to have an action climax like that for this season's finale. And they must clearly be working with less money than they were back then too.

 

The season 8 arc needs to be simple: a group of monsters, doesn't need to be Demons, doesn't need to be leviathan, but they are focused on killing Sam and Dean. None of this end of the world stuff. They can go the Die Hard 3 route. You once killed my brother/sister/pops, whatever, now I'm coming for you. Come up with one or two SOLID monster designs that you can reuse through the season (shit, if Fringe doesn't need 'em, they should borrow the porcupine / werewolf guys) Take it all the way back to season 1. Dial down the Cas (fangirls be damned), throw in some solid case of the weeks, take it back to ghosts, if they need to save budget, relax on the angst and brotherly interplay, and just have the brothers join up, crack wise and kill shit. How'd it go - "hunting things, saving people, the family business..." More of THAT.

So, what's the deal on this when already dead people get ganked? Vamps are technically "undead", so when they "die", they're sent off to purgatory, correct? Do demons go to purgatory as well, when they're permanently killed by the Colt, an Angel, or Ruby's knife? We know they're not sent back to hell ...

 

And what about dead angels? Are they sent to purgatory too?

 

The reason I'm asking is because I re-watched a couple of Season 7 episodes (I know, I know), and in "Of Grave Importance", they made big deal out of the ghosts not being able to move on in a "natural" order with a reaper after death, and the uncertainty of what would happen to the ghost after it is destroyed. Annie the Hunter stated that she would rather cease to exist than to live on as a ghost.

 

Which brings me to my question--if ghosts who are killed go on to purgatory, is it likely that we'll see Bobby next season? Please say no. 

I think only demons and actual monsters go to purgatory. Ghosts were human once so when they actually "die" they go to the afterlife.  That's my take on it.