NETFLIX / QWIKSTER Discussion

I picture the Gamefly offices looking like a riot zone right now. PANIC? PANIC!

This sounds like a retroactive damage control.

I'm not buying that this was all in the works and being employed.

This Grand Plan came into being the moment the backlash and cancelled plans started flooding in after the price hike.

Hastings' email to customers:

Two things occurred to me as I read it:

1. If Flixster's attorneys have an eye for the main chance, I could see them getting some kind of nuisance settlement out of "Quikster" over the name.

2. How long, if ever, will it take us to stop saying we "netflixed" a disk? I know that I use Fed Ex Office for a lot of my business printing, and I still tell people that I've sent a job to "Kinko's."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farsight 

I picture the Gamefly offices looking like a riot zone right now. PANIC? PANIC!

Seriously?  Are there that many DVD people clamoring for video games?  I see the DVD customer as a middle aged person not wanting to deal with the hassle of going out to get movies.  The DVD customer waits for movies to leave the theatre because the theatre experience has become so horrible.  I don't see them clamoring for video game rentals.  Especially not with the inevitable multi-dollar price hike that would accompany that.

I'll use the gaming service if it falls into my DVD service cost.  I don't play enough games to justify $20-$25/month for Gamefly on top of Netflix.  And he said there's no price hike for the video game addition.

Also, why didn't they change the name to QwikFlix?  Makes more sense.  But I guess if they're doing games, the "flix" suffix loses it's meaning.

And if I had internet worth a shit, I would be streaming the hell out of everything.  It keeps looking like either I'm going to have to move or drop $2000 to get really high speed internet (faster than normal DSL), or hope that AT&T finally gets their ass in gear and puts U-Verse in my neighborhood.  I'm giving it to the end of 2011 to wait for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm 

Seriously?  Are there that many DVD people clamoring for video games?  I see the DVD customer as a middle aged person not wanting to deal with the hassle of going out to get movies.  The DVD customer waits for movies to leave the theatre because the theatre experience has become so horrible.  I don't see them clamoring for video game rentals.  Especially not with the inevitable multi-dollar price hike that would accompany that.

The reason Gamefly and their bad service should be worried is that while game rentals may not attract a ton of new customers, I'd be surprised if there were very many Gamefly subscribers that didn't also have netflix accounts. And Netflix is way way way the fuck better at speedy delivery. If I still had Gamefly, I'd love to cancel it for Netflix instead. I might even get it, if the price is right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martianman 

I'll use the gaming service if it falls into my DVD service cost.  I don't play enough games to justify $20-$25/month for Gamefly on top of Netflix.  And he said there's no price hike for the video game addition.

No he didn't.  He specifically says

Which if the price of a video game and Blu-ray are taken into account it means that the video game option will likely cost twice what the Blu-ray option costs and I guarantee it sees interminable wait times as they are not about to stock up on video games as well as they do DVDs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd 
The reason Gamefly and their bad service should be worried is that while game rentals may not attract a ton of new customers, I'd be surprised if there were very many Gamefly subscribers that didn't also have netflix accounts. And Netflix is way way way the fuck better at speedy delivery. If I still had Gamefly, I'd love to cancel it for Netflix instead. I might even get it, if the price is right.

OK, that I can agree with up until the point it runs into what i say above your quote.

Great article from Wired.

*EDIT* Quoted for Goddamned truth:

We cancelled our Netflix account when their whole pricing bullshit happened. I'm definitely not regretting this.

I cancelled everything but streaming when they announced the change, this doesn't impact me directly...but I'm still thinking about just cancelling the streaming portion now.  It just seems so obvious that they've botched everything and it seems apparent that cancellations have them reeling.  I figure if they keep making these horrible announcements and more people keep cancelling eventually they'll figure it out.

Yeah, this email pissed me off immediately.  Don't send me an apology and then explain how your service is going to further complicate my life (i.e. the separate queues, credit card charges, etc.)  I am seriously considering cancelling my service.  I downgraded from a three disc plan to a one disc when the price hike came.  My wife and I are finding that we can get along fine on much less TV and movie watching than we used to do.  If she gives the thumbs up on ditching Netflix and Qwikster, then I'm definitely doing it.

That said, I'll never use Redbox.  NEVER.  If Netflix did anything right, it spoiled me forever that I will not make a trip out of my house just to return a damn rental.  Certainly not two nights in a row.

RE: Gamefly, the reason they should be worried is competition. Competition from a service that has better distribution and likely more money than they do - plus the ability to bundle movies and games to make games much cheaper than Gamefly. I use and like Gamefly, but if Nestle Qwikster is faster and/or cheaper, I'll switch in a heartbeat.

RE; Why split?, I suspect it's entirely about gaining a stronger bargaining position with the studios. Studios won't be able to mess with Qwikster while screwing Netflix on streaming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd 

The reason Gamefly and their bad service should be worried is that while game rentals may not attract a ton of new customers, I'd be surprised if there were very many Gamefly subscribers that didn't also have netflix accounts. And Netflix is way way way the fuck better at speedy delivery. If I still had Gamefly, I'd love to cancel it for Netflix instead. I might even get it, if the price is right.

The right thing to do would be for Netflix and Gamefly to run off and get married, but I have no idea how that'd even go down. Not to mention, I'm almost positive that would mean the end of those fantastic used game sales Gamefly has every month.

I bet if they had named it Quickflix this would be a lot less painful.

My remarks from the NETFLIX INSTANT VIEW HEADS UP thread, where this issue is being discussed concurrently with the dialog here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Kate 

I've been tilting at this windmill over on the NETFLIX INSTANT VIEW HEADS UP thread over on GUY.COM, and the blantant disrespect they showed their loyal fans with their announcement they were splitting the plans in August made clear that NETFLIX is a company adrift, rudderless and without a clue. 99% of movies are not on streaming, and to pretend that the split was a good deal for anyone other than NETFLIX shareholders was an insult that was hard to ignore. They'd been trying to push people out of DVDs for years, if you listen to the behind the scenes rumors, and it seems like they got tired of waiting for movie fans to embrace a future where the majority of movies are unavailable at a given time. The right thing was to make sure the costs of both services are born equally by all NETFLIX consumers. Instead they adopted a strategy of divide and conquer, so they could leave people isolated and without recourse when further price hikes hit down the line

 

Well I won't be doing business with QUICKSTER, I promise that right now, and if INSTANT looses much more content, I might dump it as well. The public library is pretty awesome, and it seems that NETFLIX forgot that BLOCKBUSTER and REDBOX are not it's only competition

 

Giving up on DVDs now and forcing consumers - NETFLIX evangelists who propelled the company to it's current position - to abandon the service they signed up for in the first place, forcing them to deal with another company entirely... well, it's hard not to see how that would turn people away for good

 

EDIT: And don't forget that CANADA is the beach head in NETFLIX's war on INSTANT QUEUE. From the outset they've denied consumers in the great white north access to the ability to generate a list of titles to watch instantly, and NETFLIX has previously admitted on record to using CANADA as a test bed for policies they'd like to roll out here

NETFLIX TO GO STREAMING-ONLY, SHITS OUT QWIKSTER TO HANDLE DVDS AND GAMES

http://www.chud.com/67409/netflix-to-go-streaming-only-shits-out-qwikster-to-handle-dvds-and-games/

Merged for streamlined goodness. And lol to cancelling your cheap, convenient streaming service out of principle for a business decision that makes obvious, if cynical, sense (and probably doesn't matter to you anymore anyway).

NETFLIX TO GO STREAMING-ONLY, SHITS OUT QWIKSTER TO HANDLE DVDS AND GAMES

A sad, sorry state of affairs. I can only hope that this will open the doors for a new service to capitalize on NETFLIX' grievous error

I guess I am truly in the minority because I use the ever-loving shit out of both sides of the equation.  I am currently on track to have 20 discs this month alone and as I have mentioned elsewhere repeatedly, without cable, I utilize the streaming for 90% of the use my living room television gets.  TV shows for the kids and movies when they go to bed.  Then I have my laptop hooked to my bedroom  TV and I continue streaming in there.

Then that's a misleading letter.  He mentions the upgrade option like Blu-Ray, then in the next breath says there will be no pricing changes.  Either way, I would assume it won't be an extra $20/month for games.

On a lighter note, Gizmodo's Matt Buchanan has come up with alternative names for Qwikster:

Coasters R Us

Discs in a Box

One D At A Time

DBag

Dmart

DVDeliver

Blockpounder

We Send You DVDs in the Mail

Don't Give Us Money, Go Away

Getflix

Disc Hut

Conflixter

Initech

Napster

Skyflixmall

Skynet

Flickr

Notflix

Netflix minus Net Plus Shiny Little Frisbees

Netsquik

Qwik-E-Mart

NetDisk

Netflix

My own addition: Netfuxup

The no pricing changes was in reference to no more 60% mark-ups out of the blue without justification.  And if anyone thinks the DVD plans aren't about to begin skyrocketing because of the USPS and it's problems and the Streaming isn't going to move to tiered pricing for options then I don't know what to tell you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shunderson 

 

That said, I'll never use Redbox.  NEVER.  If Netflix did anything right, it spoiled me forever that I will not make a trip out of my house just to return a damn rental.  Certainly not two nights in a row.

I used to say this, but the Redbox locations are literally everywhere now, and it's not like I don't fill my car tank up, or stop off and pick up groceries several times a week anyway. I literally spend perhaps a couple more minutes of my time, and on my usual routes, to get Redbox movies.

ETA: Quick Redbox tip: Rent just after midnight and you essentially get an extra day to keep the movie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent Z 

ETA: Quick Redbox tip: Rent just after midnight and you essentially get an extra day to keep the movie.

 

Nothing specifically against you, Z, but this kind of shit is why I sorta like Netflix.

Personally, I canceled the streaming side. My Instant Q was 4 items long, and I didn't really care about watching those.

The game rentals are the lead of this story for me.

Well, that and the massive overreaction by people who think a major tragedy just occurred.

How bad is the whole Qwikster idea? Let us count the ways:

The more info I read about this the more I get it.  But damn, this is some marketing 101 misstepping going on here.  As said above, do a New Coke and rebrand yet again.

Here's my take:

If they had plans in the works to make sure their entire DVD catalog would be available for streaming, it'd be a different issue. But they lost Criterion. They lost HBO. And I know they won't reach the point of having films ready for streaming at the same time they're ready to be mailed out on DVD, for a very long time -- maybe never. The streaming service is far, far inferior to the DVD services, and like many have said, they're looking towards the profitability of that in the future, instead of making moves to strengthen what's already made them successful.

The streaming is convenient, but lacking -- it made for a good way to kill a weeknight, or something to watch while working from home or having dinner -- but that's it. Paying the same price for it as the DVD mailings is bullshit, and I should have cancelled it before my latest bill.

But on the flip side, who the fuck knows where the DVD side of things is going to go. It's a whole new ballgame with a new company, new CEO and probably new business models. Up until all of this bullshit started, I thoroughly enjoyed Netflix, and had no complaints at all. But, I feel slighted and jerked around as a loyal customer, and now the only thing worth it to me is being tossed over to someone else, and there's no telling which direction the quality of the service will go.

Streaming's out. I'm cancelling it today. It was supplement for the DVDs, and frankly I don't want to give the company more money than I need to, since I'm no longer getting what I want out of it. I may ride it out and see how this Qwikster bullshit pans out with DVDs. Or I may cancel altogether and watch from the sidelines and see how other people rate the new services.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent Z 

I used to say this, but the Redbox locations are literally everywhere now, and it's not like I don't fill my car tank up, or stop off and pick up groceries several times a week anyway. I literally spend perhaps a couple more minutes of my time, and on my usual routes, to get Redbox movies.

 

ETA: Quick Redbox tip: Rent just after midnight and you essentially get an extra day to keep the movie.

 

Pretty much this.  There's a Circle K about 3 blocks from my house at a stop light that I literally have to pass every day to and from work.  Every grocery store within 5 miles of my house has one, as do most of the drug stores.  The Redbox app is insanely good and makes sure that if I am wanting one specific movie it will be waiting for me.  You don't have to return to the same location you rented from, making returns pretty simple.  If it wasn't for the fact that my wife decides to throw discs under piles of mail or whatnot it would be just about ideal.

They probably said something about Jews in there. Don't know for sure, but we can all assume it.

The Netflix CEO reminds of the apologetic IRS agent in Happy Gilmore played by Robert Smigel.

I wonder if someone dumped Stupid pills in the water at the last Jackson Hole conference:
 

Netflix splits into two, presents it as an apology for a price hike,

Google's new CEO buys Motorola Mobility, adding tens of thousands of employees, most of whom are as far from the Google ethos as you can imagine, a bunch of useless patents (if rumors are true) and hardware which is largely out of date,

HP, mostly a hardware company for it's long history, gets a new CEO who decides to jettison the PC business and overspend to buy a software company that has nothing to do with any of it's current businesses.

I've never seen such a rash of out and out idiotic decisions by the leaders of major companies.

 For now I'm keeping the 1 DVD at a time plan that I have. I figure at about $9 a month its mostly worth it, but  I may just outright cancel if they increase it even one penny more.  

For me, the huge gap between the awesome quality of the Blu rays I rent and the blotchy full frame Instant Streams is a bit of a sticking point, but more than that, it's just my habits. With the mail service, I'm always renting movies like The Wild Bunch or Yojimbo, and really committing to the idea of watching a real movie. With the streaming, it's much more 'hey, isn't there a third Narnia movie?'

The only way this works for the masses is if they get more movies to stream including the new ones as soon as they come out. And even then quality nerds like me will have a problem because yeah I love my setup and and I actually want to see movies in high def with a high def audio track. Of course I realize im in the minority. I mostly use streaming for old stuff that im not sure I will like so I don't waste a day on getting the disc here. Streaming isn't quite there yet and neither as internet connections. I mean are that many of their customers really streaming? Hell half of the people I talk to with Netflix CAN'T stream because their internet is too slow.

Not sure if you guys remember this, but the whole reason NETFLIX started getting delayed DVD releases in the first place was because of a deal they made with studios for more streaming content. I said they were betraying their core consumers back when that happened, but in retrospective that slight was but a hint of hardships yet to come for the DVD user base when NETFLIX enacted it's ultimate solution to the rentals-by-mail question

I guess we all should have seen this coming, as time and time again they demonstrated a willingness - bordering on eagerness - to shortchange DVD renters in favor of people who prefer blurry full screen streams.. but no one ever wants to think the unthinkable. Netflix was a company I loved, which makes this hurt that much more

EDIT: I am greatly insulted by some of the articles I've seen making light of this issue. They had one on huffington post that was essentially making fun of DVD renters, saying that Quickster could be called "Netflix without the net and plus silver coasters"

1) Netflix is NET flix not because of streaming but because you rent through a website

2)Silver coasters? They're DVDs, not betamax. I love movies and most movies are not streamed. To try and shame movie lovers by pretending they're somehow unhip is just a gross offense, IMHO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Kate 

To try and shame movie lovers by pretending they're somehow unhip is just a gross offense, IMHO

Especially considering the quality you get from Blu-ray is ridiculously superior to what they offer via streaming. I honestly can't figure out why any true cinephile would prefer the latter over the former at this point, which is why I find it somewhat shocking that Renn and Nick seem to think this is no big deal. Streaming sucks right now unless you're sitting at home with a 15-year-old, standard-definition TV set.

Per usual you are so grossly misinformed that your schtick has to be wearing thin with even your apologists.

Reed Hastings has never made any bones about the fact that when he started his little company nearly fifteen years ago that he envisioned one day offering movies via the net.  The name Netflix is derived from his predictions 10+ years ago that digital distribution was the future for content.  This is why the Streaming company is keeping the original name and not the DVD company that the name was built upon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm 

Per usual you are so grossly misinformed that your schtick has to be wearing thin with even your apologists.

 

Reed Hastings has never made any bones about the fact that when he started his little company nearly fifteen years ago that he envisioned one day offering movies via the net.  The name Netflix is derived from his predictions 10+ years ago that digital distribution was the future for content.  This is why the Streaming company is keeping the original name and not the DVD company that the name was built upon.

 

... he didn't call it NETFLIX 15 years ago because of that.. He called it NETFLIX because people rented movies through a website. He may have had a long term vision for his business that involved streaming, but NETFLIX makes sense as a name for a movie website based DVD rental service. My point was that NETFLIX DVD services is not, contrary to what a HUFFPO humorist claimed, "Netflix without the net" - the net is still integral to that experience

Right, Tzu?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Kate 

the whole reason NETFLIX started getting delayed DVD releases in the first place was because of a deal they made with studios for more streaming content.

And yet you don't see how splitting into two companies can benefit the DVD side as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farsight 

And yet you don't see how splitting into two companies can benefit the DVD side as well?

 

 

If prices go down (because money paid by DVD customers is no longer used to supplement NETFLIX's streaming costs), and the delays disappear, then yes it would be a benefit. However they're still owned by the same corporation, so I won't hold my breath

Quote:

Originally Posted by zak chase 

I honestly can't figure out why any true cinephile would prefer the latter over the former at this point, which is why I find it somewhat shocking that Renn and Nick seem to think this is no big deal. Streaming sucks right now unless you're sitting at home with a 15-year-old, standard-definition TV set.

 

It's more prioritizing over preference. I can't afford to see every release ever made in the best possible home format...nor do I really care to.

Going by your veiled elitist tone, I can't imagine why any "true cinephile" would watch any film on their home setup over seeing it in an actual theater on the first run.

True Cinephiles, Represent! 

Quote:

Originally Posted by zak chase 

Especially considering the quality you get from Blu-ray is ridiculously superior to what they offer via streaming. I honestly can't figure out why any true cinephile would prefer the latter over the former at this point, which is why I find it somewhat shocking that Renn and Nick seem to think this is no big deal. Streaming sucks right now unless you're sitting at home with a 15-year-old, standard-definition TV set.

 

You're connecting a whole lot of disparate points into one big weird thoughccusation that makes no sense. Never in a million years would I prefer a Netflix stream to a Blu-ray, which is why I rent one to watch big movies and such, and use the other to catch up on things in a pinch and go through the Larry Sanders show in huge chunks at a time.

I can imagine a reason. I'll give you a hint: They're small, fleshy, need constant supervision and come out of a woman's vagina. And I've got two of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renn Brown 

Never in a million years would I prefer a Netflix stream to a Blu-ray, which is why I rent one to watch big movies and such, and use the other to catch up on things in a pinch and go through the Larry Sanders show in huge chunks at a time.

That's almost exactly how I manage my home viewing, as well. But then Netflix forced a 60 percent price increase on those who did both ... and then they announced that, to do both, you'd have to do it through two different companies, via two different websites that won't even share information (such as movie queues). See why it's kind of annoying?

Anyway, the price to do Blu-ray only is still better than pretty much any other option right now. So I suppose I'll stick with that until either Netflix ups the price again (or does away with it entirely) or streaming takes a huge jump in quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zak chase 

I can imagine a reason. I'll give you a hint: They're small, fleshy, need constant supervision and come out of a woman's vagina. And I've got two of them.

Wow, and look who's prioritizing now?! Good on ya. Was waiting for you to catch up with the rest of us lifers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent Z 

Wow, and look who's prioritizing now?! Good on ya. Was waiting for you to catch up with the rest of us lifers.

Hey, at least I'll get to see The Muppets at the theater in a few months! (Still will need to dump the two-year-old on the grandparents or something, though.)

I m on the one (usually blu-ray) at a time with Netflix. I did not use the streaming  too often, mostly due to the quality of image. I have a blu-ray player and a big TV (which I just upgraded and ironically has a streaming feature!) with a surround sound. It kinda makes me feel old that I'm not streaming more because of my old school habits

All this talk of the future and how it will be better made me think about the "Tucker" movie, the cars were the future and looked what happened to him LOL, Yeah Im old

And disc service is cancelled! I only used it for new releases and the wait was pathetic. I'll just red box em

What really bugs me about this move is, Reed Hastings is looking at AT&T and AOL as models/portents, when he should be looking at Apple.

AT&T and AOl both suffer from big anchors to their businesses: maintaining landline phone service in the case of AT&T, and Dial up Internet users in the case of AOL. Both companies suffer a drag in earnings estimates, even though both companies get a good cash flow from these antiquated technologies. So I get why Reed Hastings would think "screw that: let's cut the chord now!".

But if instead of looking at those two companies he looked at Apple, he'd realize that what's made Netflix successful all along was the Consumer experience. Seen in that light, this was a bad, maybe even a terminal move. Especially now that he's lost Starz content.

I can see the major studios seeing this as an opportunity to kick Netflix to the curb. Why not pay Amazon, Apple or Hulu a bit more for 6 months or so, if it means killing off Netflix, which (despite all the whining) has offered masses of content at a low price?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd 

For me, the huge gap between the awesome quality of the Blu rays I rent and the blotchy full frame Instant Streams is a bit of a sticking point, but more than that, it's just my habits. With the mail service, I'm always renting movies like The Wild Bunch or Yojimbo, and really committing to the idea of watching a real movie. With the streaming, it's much more 'hey, isn't there a third Narnia movie?'

I certainly laughed on myself at this. It's very true -- when I've got The fuckin' 'Burbs on my Netflix queue and The Killing of a Chinese Bookie on its way via Zip (Canadian company, similar to Netflix), it's easy to see which is better for me as a movie buff, which is really what matters about this whole situation. Nice one.